fats, carbs, sugars?

[TYHO127]

I know what they are, and I know they they are different but I don't know exactly. I just need a couple things clarifyed. Sugar is bacically a Carb? But sugar free things can have carbs? Then carbs can turn to fat, but fat free things have carbs? But then pure fat has zero carbs? All three of those things are a source of energy, but then pure protien can be a source of energy and it has no fat sugar or carbs? I'm just trying to understand or mayby I'm just mind fkn my self? Haha

[krugerr]

I was tempted to try an explanation... and then I realised that I cant really answer it lol

I do know that Protein can be used as an energy source, but its lower down the list, its harder for the body to use it as fuel. Carbs and sugar are your bodies 'quick' fuel source and are easily processed.

Thats about as far as my knowledge goes on the subject, I'll be interested to see what the Guru's say.

-Krugerr

[gbrice75]

I know what they are, and I know they they are different but I don't know exactly. I just need a couple things clarifyed. Sugar is bacically a Carb? But sugar free things can have carbs?

Right. All sugar is carbs, but not all carbs are sugar. I don't want to get too technical with chemistry etc., but carbs are basically molecule chains. The simplest form is glucose which all carbs, regardless of chain structure and/or complexity, are eventually broken down to in the body for usage and/or storage. You have starchy complex carbs like oats, rice, etc. and then simple carbs like fruit for instance (fructose mainly).

Then carbs can turn to fat, but fat free things have carbs?

Carbs don't 'turn into' fat, but are processed by the body (broken down into glucose) and the stored for future use, as either glycogen (in the muscles and liver) or fat (in fat cells).

But then pure fat has zero carbs?

Right. Fat is fat. Your 3 basic macro nutrients are protein, carbohydrate, and fat.

All three of those things are a source of energy, but then pure protien can be a source of energy and it has no fat sugar or carbs? I'm just trying to understand or mayby I'm just mind fkn my self? Haha

Protein cannot be used as a direct energy source, but rather is used to build - muscle, bones, etc. Muscle can be broken down when necessary (absence of energy, i.e. carbs and/or fats) and converted to usable energy (gluconeogenesis) but this is an inefficient and energy costly process (kind of a catch 22).

Hope this helps.

[TYHO127]

That helps thank you. Now why are complex carbs better than say fructose carbs? How can carbs not be turned into fat, but be stored as fat? If fat is fat why is it that that on a low carb diet you can consume a large amount of fat but it wont store in your body? Sorry im just trying to fully grasp this! I think it will really help me with my dieting.

[gbrice75]

That helps thank you. Now why are complex carbs better than say fructose carbs?

It's not that they're 'better' per se. It's all about how you apply them, and what your goals are.

Simple carbs (sugar... that could be fruit (fructose), table sugar (sucrose) 'manufactured sugars (dextrose/maltodextrin) etc) are broken down into glucose very quickly. Your body's response to deal with spiked blood glucose levels is to release insulin to 'displace' the glucose... in muscle, fat, whatever. This can be used in your favor at times, but can also be devastating to your body and physique if you don't know what you're doing.

Complex carbs take much longer for your body to break down into glucose. The resulting insulin release is much smaller, making for more stable insulin levels circulating through your bloodstream (a good thing IMO).

How can carbs not be turned into fat, but be stored as fat?

Fat storage is mainly about eating more calories than your body burns. That can be carbs, fats, or protein - it doesn't really matter. In the case of carbs - as I said earlier, carbs are broken down into glucose. Glucose is then 'transported' (via insulin) into various cells... muscle cells (stored as glycogen for future energy use), the liver (as glycogen), or in fat cells - as fat. So in a sense, I guess you can say carbs 'turn into' fat, but that's not really accurate. Carbs (glucose) can be STORED in fat cells. When fat cells (which are like little bags that can be emptied or filled) are completely filled, your body will make new fat cells to accommodate further storage.

If fat is fat why is it that that on a low carb diet you can consume a large amount of fat but it wont store in your body?

Carbs (glucose) are your body's preferred fuel source. Whenever it's present, your body will use it for energy, anything left over will be stored for future use (as glycogen or fat). On low carb diets, you are taking glucose out of the picture. Your body has to get energy from somewhere - so you eat more fats which can also be used as energy. The idea is to use fat (dietary and bodyfat) as your body's primary fuel source.

Sorry im just trying to fully grasp this! I think it will really help me with my dieting.

No worries.

[Tron3219]

Fat storage is mainly about eating more calories than your body burns. That can be carbs, fats, or protein - it doesn't really matter. In the case of carbs - as I said earlier, carbs are broken down into glucose. Glucose is then 'transported' (via insulin) into various cells... muscle cells (stored as glycogen for future energy use), the liver (as glycogen), or in fat cells - as fat. So in a sense, I guess you can say carbs 'turn into' fat, but that's not really accurate. Carbs (glucose) can be STORED in fat cells. When fat cells (which are like little bags that can be emptied or filled) are completely filled, your body will make new fat cells to accommodate further storage.)

I thought excess glucose was turned into fat via lipogenisis in the liver? And turned back into glucose via glucogenisus in the liver

[gbrice75]

I thought excess glucose was turned into fat via lipogenisis in the liver? And turned back into glucose via glucogenisus in the liver

Among other mechanisms, yes. I'm trying to stay away from being too technical though... lol work with me here Tron!!

[Tron3219]

Among other mechanisms, yes. I'm trying to stay away from being too technical though... lol work with me here Tron!!

Lol ok ok sorry...same page, same page

[Tron3219]

Long story short, ur body uses glucose as its primary energy source and through various mechanisms in the body, it will get glucose from all three macros, hierarchy being carbs, fat, protein.

[TYHO127]

Wow i like this. So fat isn't always fat as fat cells are just storage cells for things like fat among other things that your body stores for energy?

[Tron3219]

Wow i like this. So fat isn't always fat as fat cells are just storage cells for things like fat among other things that your body stores for energy?

Fat cells are storage for fatty acids, but excess macros are converted to fatty acids through various bodily processes and stored in fat cells. Later, to be pulled out and converted to glucose through different bodily functions for energy when glucose is at a scarcity.

[gbrice75]

Fat cells are storage for fatty acids, but excess macros are converted to fatty acids through various bodily processes and stored in fat cells. Later, to be pulled out and converted to glucose through different bodily functions for energy when glucose is at a scarcity.

^^ this

[TYHO127]

Great thanks! Now I think I understand

[cliffjumper]

Great thread - great info - thanks!

[SO19 Soldier]

This is my understanding, may not be right but how I look at it so i may be corrected (feel free to), I don't like to get complicated with food so here:

Fat - turns to fat, only burnt off if you're bodies used all its carb and sugar energy and has nothing left, then it starts eating away at your fat.

Protein - turns to muscle, eat as much as can.

Sugar - turns into nothing, just passes through your body, used as your bodies first energy source while its there. Burns away fast and increases energy fast.

Carbs - turns into stored energy, or fat if you continuously don't use all of what you put in. Burns away slower and increases energy more calmly.

I don't know a whole lot about carbs but I think of it like an energy store/fat maker where if u over stock it then it pushes the old out and turns it to fat.
I try not to add extra carbs or even look at them, i don't worry as I go for proteins, sugars (in fruit etc.) and no fat, plus I think if eating enough of the right food you'll be getting enough carbs anyway like rice, potatoes and everything else.

If you want to get bigger by storing fat then that's the time you want to be overly consuming with masses of carbs and worrying about what's got how much in it, otherwise just eat well and should get more than enough anyway.

[gbrice75]

This is my understanding, may not be right but how I look at it so i may be corrected (feel free to), I don't like to get complicated with food so here:

Fat - turns to fat, only burnt off if you're bodies used all its carb and sugar energy and has nothing left, then it starts eating away at your fat.

It doesn't 'turn into' fat, but of the 3 macro nutrients, it's most readily stored as body fat. Also, your body doesn't have to have used all other energies (glucose/glycogen) in order to burn fat. Most of the time, you're body is burning both.

Protein - turns to muscle, eat as much as can.

Is used to build muscle. The amino acids that make up protein are the building blocks for muscle tissue. Eating as much as you can is not a good idea. At the end of the day, protein has a caloric value and too much of any of the macros can be converted and stored as bodyfat. Generally, 1.5g/lb of LBM is a great starting point.

Sugar - turns into nothing, just passes through your body, used as your bodies first energy source while its there. Burns away fast and increases energy fast.

Is broken down to its simplest form (glucose) and burned as an immediate fuel source if needed. It's presence in the blood stream signals your pancreas to secrete insulin, who's job is to 'displace' glucose - into muscle and the liver as glycogen, and into fat cells as fatty acids. All stored energy for future use.

Carbs - turns into stored energy, or fat if you continuously don't use all of what you put in. Burns away slower and increases energy more calmly.

Sugar is also a carb, albeit a 'simple' carb. You're referring to complex carbs, which ultimately take the same path as simple sugars (i.e. broken down into glucose), however due to their 'complex' structure, take longer to break down and therefore a less dramatic insulin response is triggered.

I don't know a whole lot about carbs but I think of it like an energy store/fat maker where if u over stock it then it pushes the old out and turns it to fat.

When glycogen stores are full and there is no immediate demand for energy, carbs will be converted to fatty acids and stored in fat cells. When fat cell stores are full, new fat cells will be created. THIS is bad.

I try not to add extra carbs or even look at them, i don't worry as I go for proteins, sugars (in fruit etc.) and no fat, plus I think if eating enough of the right food you'll be getting enough carbs anyway like rice, potatoes and everything else.

Big mistake IMO. You should most definitely be looking at carbs. Remember, sugar IS a carb - so don't treat complex carbs any differently than simple (fruit) with regards to monitoring intake. You cannot ignore anything you eat if you want to see results.

If you want to get bigger by storing fat then that's the time you want to be overly consuming with masses of carbs and worrying about what's got how much in it, otherwise just eat well and should get more than enough anyway.

Definitely not. 1 - who wants to get bigger and stronger by storing fat? Not me. I want lean muscle. Secondly - it's never a good idea to consume 'masses of carbs' - you give your body just enough of what it needs to grow, otherwise, you'll get fat. Plain and simple.

Check out my 2 sticky's which will hopefully help clear things up.

Cutting - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...g#.UP1ZeOREGSo

Lean Bulking - http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...*#.UP1ZZOREGSo

[SO19 Soldier]

Many thanks for the great understandable explanations. I do look at carbs and all intake and do get a fair bit of carbs but I don't add my whole days worth up as a whole which I clearly need to start doing, I don't think I'm too bad as my diet is quite varied, but obviously the only way I can adjust to get it right is to record it all.
Also I wasn't condoning growing by storing fat I was just stating how it can happen so people didn't, bad wording my bad.

Anyway thanks I will be going through your threads now and learning a thing or two.

[gbrice75]

[QUOTE=SO19 Soldier;6350943]Many thanks for the great understandable explanations. I do look at carbs and all intake and do get a fair bit of carbs but I don't add my whole days worth up as a whole which I clearly need to start doing, I don't think I'm too bad as my diet is quite varied, but obviously the only way I can adjust to get it right is to record it all.
Also I wasn't condoning growing by storing fat I was just stating how it can happen so people didn't, bad wording my bad.[/QUOTE

^^ this!

Anyway thanks I will be going through your threads now and learning a thing or two.

No problem!

[TYHO127]

Great stuff!

[likelifting]

Why can't fat on our bodies be used as an energy source since our body stores it presumably for that reason? Why do we go into cataboic state if we are working out and haven't eaten and have fat on our bodies? Our body can't metablise it fast enuf?

[Tron3219]

Why can't fat on our bodies be used as an energy source since our body stores it presumably for that reason? Why do we go into cataboic state if we are working out and haven't eaten and have fat on our bodies? Our body can't metablise it fast enuf?

It can, that's the idea behind a keto diet. And I dont think you don't go into muscular catabolism for not eating right after u workout, u may prolong recovery and time after time it may pull amino acids from elsewhere to rebuild and repair the damage. Your body isn't going to turn to u muscle for energy unless that's all that's left.

[likelifting]

Thanks Tron. Makes sense.

BTW...I need to educate myself on keto diet.

[gbrice75]

Why can't fat on our bodies be used as an energy source since our body stores it presumably for that reason? Why do we go into cataboic state if we are working out and haven't eaten and have fat on our bodies? Our body can't metablise it fast enuf?

Our bodies do use fat stores for energy as, after all, that's it's purpose as you pointed out. Generally, our bodies use energy in the following order - understand that this is simplified and not 100% accurate, but for the most part - circulating glucose, glycogen stores, dietary and body fat, converted amino's from broken down muscle tissue (gluconeogenesis). However, this isn't always true. Take HIIT cardio for instance. That style of cardio requires 'fast' energy - glucose/glycogen is definitely it's number 1 target, but unfortunately the process of mobilizing and utilizing fatty acids for energy is slower and often, LBM is targeted along side it as a compensatory measure.

[likelifting]

Our bodies do use fat stores for energy as, after all, that's it's purpose as you pointed out. Generally, our bodies use energy in the following order - understand that this is simplified and not 100% accurate, but for the most part - circulating glucose, glycogen stores, dietary and body fat, converted amino's from broken down muscle tissue (gluconeogenesis). However, this isn't always true. Take HIIT cardio for instance. That style of cardio requires 'fast' energy - glucose/glycogen is definitely it's number 1 target, but unfortunately the process of mobilizing and utilizing fatty acids for energy is slower and often, LBM is targeted along side it as a compensatory measure.

Explained very well. I'm starting to expect that from you.

So if I just sat on the couch but ate nothing for 3 days, my body will use a larger % of stored fat than muscle? Cuz it has time to mobilize? But with HIIT, the body needs energy NOW and doesn't have the time to turn fat into circulating glucose?

[gbrice75]

Explained very well. I'm starting to expect that from you.

lol, thanks... that's a good thing!

So if I just sat on the couch but ate nothing for 3 days, my body will use a larger % of stored fat than muscle? Cuz it has time to mobilize? But with HIIT, the body needs energy NOW and doesn't have the time to turn fat into circulating glucose?

Meh, not exactly. If you just sat on the couch for 3 days, there are 2 things to consider with regards to your question:

1 - although you are eating nothing, there is also very little demand for energy, so you'll likely burn very little fat... you're body wouldn't have a reason to burn muscle, except...

2 - 'Use it or lose it' - you know the saying. You have to stimulate muscle not only to grow it, but even to maintain it. On top of that, you have to feed it. I don't think 3 days would be long enough, but eventually you'd fall victim to 'muscle wasting'.

With HIIT, you WILL burn fat - don't get me wrong. It's just that there's a greater chance to dip into muscle tissue as well... when glycogen stores are already depleted. They'll sort of work in tandem. HIIT is more about burning massive amounts of calories, regardless of where those calories come from. I'd only suggest using it in the fed state... PWO for example, after having a good preworkout meal.

[likelifting]

Got it! Thanks GB! Looks like everything in moderation. Correct diet and correct workout plan. I guess I'll keep trudging along.

One last question...Is there a pill I could take that takes me to 7% bf in one day?

[TYHO127]

Okay one more thing I'm having troubel understanding. For example the Atkins diet low low Carb but plenty of fat. How do people lose bodyfat when consuming so much?

[gbrice75]

Okay one more thing I'm having troubel understanding. For example the Atkins diet low low Carb but plenty of fat. How do people lose bodyfat when consuming so much?

It's all about energy. Both carbs and fats are your body's energy sources. Remove one from the equation and your body will have no choice but to rely almost completely on the other. You can eat a protein/fat diet, eat under maintenance, and lose bodyfat. Your body will use dietary and body fat for fuel.

[TYHO127]

Is it similar to a low fat diet but with carbs? But you will always gain weight if all you eat is carbs?

[gbrice75]

Is it similar to a low fat diet but with carbs? But you will always gain weight if all you eat is carbs?

Is what similar?

[TYHO127]

Like you said about removing one from the equation its gonna rely on what it has.