Loss of appetite and energy

[crazy mike]

I'm on second part of a cycle and had to change compounds to :
Test E 750mg wk
Tren A 100 mg EOD
Two wks ago added Tren E 250mg week
Liquidex .25 ed

Age 62
Hght 5-11
wght 195 lbs.

Note: I've not been off since January.
I have tried to add Test TNE 100 mg pre workout
I have tried Test P 100 as a pre workout attempt to gain energy and appetite to no avail.

Total lose of appetite and energy. I'm now losing past gains from lack of eating. Simple science no food no gains no maintenance. So now I can't get up or produce an appetite. To get to the gym.
Blood work shows my type 2 not serious diabetes is getting worse. My heart is in good shape.

Any thoughts as to what is happening. I'm looking for scientific thoughts not " well stop" comments, even though that's what prob will be the outcome. ...crazy mike

Not sure of my E2 at this time...

[toilet]

(((

[tectime]

How long you been feeling that way? .25 dex doesn't sound like too much for the load you're injecting, so probly not estrogen crash. And if not enough dex you should/ would be starting to see high estro issues and I know you know what to be looking for. Mm with the other meds you've talked about prior maybe bad combo this time. Still bloods will tell the tell better to check right !

[kronik420]

drop the tren..

[crazy mike]

drop the tren..

That's what I was thinking. All was ok until. Thanks ...crazy mike

[kronik420]

That's what I was thinking. All was ok until. Thanks ...crazy mike

have you tried b12 injections?

you could try lowering your tren dosage.. before dropping it...

[Cuz]

hate to hear the bad news cm, wish I could help you. No matter how strong you are mentally, sometimes you just cant overcome the abuse that we put ourselves through. Eating when your not hungry every 2 hours, lifting everday/ eod for hours, the cardio,...it gets to me too. Just push through it, your mid cycle so you cant stop now theres no turning back. Get some sleep and startover in the morning.

Hopefully someone will help you with the "scientific" part and best regards.

[DexterMorgan]

B12 Injections gives you energy, and increase appetite.

[crazy mike]

have you tried b12 injections?

you could try lowering your tren dosage.. before dropping it...

Ya know I take an exorbitant amount of B12 tabs/ immediate release and nothing. I take a multi and a lot of potassium for cramps.
Previous to adding the Tren I was holding water at my legs and ankles. Third day on Tren, the water was gone. I lost a few pounds of water weight in 3 days. I knew I was , hence the reason for the Tren. But then everything started to go bust. My strength was increasing due to Tren. I had plateaued another reason for the Tren. ...crazy mike

[crazy mike]

hate to hear the bad news cm, wish I could help you. No matter how strong you are mentally, sometimes you just cant overcome the abuse that we put ourselves through. Eating when your not hungry every 2 hours, lifting everday/ eod for hours, the cardio,...it gets to me too. Just push through it, your mid cycle so you cant stop now theres no turning back. Get some sleep and startover in the morning.

Hopefully someone will help you with the "scientific" part and best regards.

Thank you man.... I have to say the 62 years old thing is beginning to be a big issue. Thanks. ...cm

I thought I could just get over that (62), but it seems to keep knocking me on my a$$

[kronik420]

Ya know I take an exorbitant amount of B12 tabs/ immediate release and nothing. I take a multi and a lot of potassium for cramps.
Previous to adding the Tren I was holding water at my legs and ankles. Third day on Tren, the water was gone. I lost a few pounds of water weight in 3 days. I knew I was , hence the reason for the Tren. But then everything started to go bust. My strength was increasing due to Tren. I had plateaued another reason for the Tren. ...crazy mike

have you tried injectable b12?

[crazy mike]

Hey , I was reading that "Prednisone " is not good for blood sugar and maybe it is also giving me some fatigue.
For anyone reading my diabetes is low type 2. I isn't a high level and it's not always bad. Controlled by appetite and one medication. I have spoken to the MD's and read up on Anabolic Steroids and diabetes and it has no bearing. ...cm

[kronik420]

Hey , I was reading that "Prednisone " is not good for blood sugar and maybe it is also giving me some fatigue.
For anyone reading my diabetes is low type 2. I isn't a high level and it's not always bad. Controlled by appetite and one medication. I have spoken to the MD's and read up on Anabolic Steroids and diabetes and it has no bearing. ...cm

what's your BGL sitting at?

[BG]

To much gear, no need for all that.t some blood work, bet your endo is all out of level.

You dont feel good so you add more gear? Come on use your head.

[crazy mike]

have you tried injectable b12?

No, kronik I have not tried injectable B12. I know there is a Methylcobalamin B12 injectable and it is different than the tabs that are cyanocobalmin but I haven't found data telling me the difference as in why it would be better. So I am clueless about if it would work better. ...crazy mike

[crazy mike]

To much gear, no need for all that.t some blood work, bet your endo is all out of level.

You dont feel good so you add more gear? Come on use your head.

I understand. You make sense with your comment. It started to kick me up as I wanted an my strength etc.. but then the bottom just dropped out. No argument I'll be decreasing all of it now. But I'm wondering what is actually going on with my system. I just had BW and only my diabetes was showing an increase in my glucose level. OK. .... crazy mike

OH........Thanks

[BG]

no way everything was normal on all that gear...what were your test/e2 levels?

[crazy mike]

no way everything was normal on all that gear...what were your test/e2 levels?

I will clarify my statement or misstatement. I haven't had my Testosterone or Estradiol done in 6 weeks. The last level was very high 262 by memory. I increased my AI and brought it down. Only way I know it was down was because of watching and feeling my Pecs. I have Gyno, have had Gyno and have been monitoring myself as careful as one can without the lab test. I since have had BW done by my Doctor and he will not do the Test and Estradiol. I have to get independent testing and pay, which is what I DO when I have the money. Not easy on SSD so I keep up best I can with my E2 BW. I have crashed my E2 in the past and know what that is like. I just don't think that's it, but of course only the Testing will tell the truth. Thanks...
Also the way this came on with the Tren has me confused , but you are correct in what you say about "more gear" ????? Got ya. ...crazy mike

[Giggle]

But the rest of your bloodwork was OK? Your CBC and white count?
Just making sure it's only the drugs.

[crazy mike]

But the rest of your bloodwork was OK? Your CBC and white count?
Just making sure it's only the drugs.

Yes, no problem with that. ...cm

[BG]

Now with the gyno, drug use is causing a side effect so you take another drug to combat it, then increase other compounds on top? See where Im going......

[crashfirepm53]

I know it's not scientific but I live in the south so its hot as hell. My job keeps me outside frequently and unable to hydrate properly and difficult to eat enough food at the right times. I'm on a bulking cycle but I sure wish I waited until the fall to start. Good luck.

[crazy mike]

now with the gyno, drug use is causing a side effect so you take another drug to combat it, then increase other compounds on top? See where im going......

yes .............


YES, bg yes I'm in tune with where you are going. Got it ! ...mike

[clarky.]

Hi mate I had all this the last time I ran tren e lethargic no appetite just no nrg at all dropped the tren sorted be in no hurry to use again lol and the sweats were mad. Anyway a few mentioned b12 injections I know a few ppl who used b12 tabs and they done nothing they use injections now it's like night and day appetite through the roof and lots of nrg.

[crazy mike]

Hi mate I had all this the last time I ran tren e lethargic no appetite just no nrg at all dropped the tren sorted be in no hurry to use again lol and the sweats were mad. Anyway a few mentioned b12 injections I know a few ppl who used b12 tabs and they done nothing they use injections now it's like night and day appetite through the roof and lots of nrg.

Wow How cool. I want to try that. I've been wondering and waiting for someone to say something like that. Thanks clarky I'll look into it. I have the source but NO money. I'll get some somehow and try it. ...crazy mike

[Brazensol]

I live in the desert southwest and the heat can really take it out of me somedays but usually it's only a day or two. You being in Florida get the added humidity bonus. I lived in FL six years and I hate the humidity! Maybe it might be as simple as taking a couple of weeks off and doing something totally unrelated to the gym and exercising. Here is a list of natural appetite stimulants.

Yogurt
Cranberry Juice
Fresh Herbs
Celery Seeds
Cayenne Pepper
Ginger Root
Ginseng
Lemon Balm
Winter Cress
Chamomile
Mustard
Barley Sprouts

Sorry I can't be of more help.

[Brazensol]

Also, is your appetite missing the whole day? I know I sometimes I don't feel like eating until later at night. Also, I noticed after doing a hard legs day yesterday the last thing I felt like doing was eating. Once again, perhaps a complete break would be helpful?

[Java Man]

I had been eating 6,000mcg B12 gels daily, then added 5,000mcg sublingual for a month or 2... Still no effect that I could feel. That's additive, not instead of so I was doing 11k mcg daily orally.

I started injectable b12 about 10 days ago, and my energy/appetite are off the chart nuts. I loaded first with 2mg IM then started doing 1mg eod. Try injectable cm. I think you'll be amazed. I am!

[qscgugcsq]

No, kronik I have not tried injectable B12. I know there is a Methylcobalamin B12 injectable and it is different than the tabs that are cyanocobalmin but I haven't found data telling me the difference as in why it would be better. So I am clueless about if it would work better. ...crazy mike

My boss said me that your body have to methyl the cyanocobalamine to make it assimilable. And that some people cant methyl correctly so no matter the quantity of cyanocobalamine you have you cant use it. Methylcobalamine(injectable or oral)
Get assimilate better.

Why injectable over oral?
People having difficulty to assimilate their food like people having ceoliac disease or any disorder of the dogestive tract cant get it into their bloodstream.

Sublingual dont need to pass through the digestive tract.

Im working in a independant suplement store and I trust what my boss say. He helped many people getting better. Me include.

I dont pretend to understand exactly the difference but methylcobalamine is used better than cyanocobalamine.

[clarky.]

Wow How cool. I want to try that. I've been wondering and waiting for someone to say something like that. Thanks clarky I'll look into it. I have the source but NO money. I'll get some somehow and try it. ...crazy mike

your welcome mate

[Rv8G30]

I just added tren to my test cycle about 1 week into tren I feel like shit. Im 29. Few test cycles under the belt. I have decreased appetite, tired all the time, and random nausia especially at night. Thinking that might be the prami though. Using .25 mg in the evening. Accidentally took .5 last night. Woke up few hours later very nausious.

Might consider b12 also. Anyone know if it has any effect on sleep? How longs it last? And do you get used to it?

[crazy mike]

I had been eating 6,000mcg B12 gels daily, then added 5,000mcg sublingual for a month or 2... Still no effect that I could feel. That's additive, not instead of so I was doing 11k mcg daily orally.

I started injectable b12 about 10 days ago, and my energy/appetite are off the chart nuts. I loaded first with 2mg IM then started doing 1mg eod. Try injectable cm. I think you'll be amazed. I am!

My boss said me that your body have to methyl the cyanocobalamine to make it assimilable. And that some people cant methyl correctly so no matter the quantity of cyanocobalamine you have you cant use it. Methylcobalamine(injectable or oral)
Get assimilate better.

Why injectable over oral?
People having difficulty to assimilate their food like people having ceoliac disease or any disorder of the dogestive tract cant get it into their bloodstream.

Sublingual dont need to pass through the digestive tract.

Im working in a independant suplement store and I trust what my boss say. He helped many people getting better. Me include.

I dont pretend to understand exactly the difference but methylcobalamine is used better than cyanocobalamine.

First Thanks again clarky .
Now this is what I was waiting to hear. Comments like this. I haven't been able to find the right data on this and I have looked. I also tried on here before, BUT cool. Ah ha !! Now I gotta wait till pay day.
Ok that's it alrighty that's it ! Okey-dokey....tha, tha, that's all folks....crazzzzy mike Ha!

[crazy mike]

Post edited. Sorry...forgot in my over zealous old head.

....crazy mike

[555mjolnir]

I will probably get flamed for this but my last cycle I was using EQ and couldn't stop eating so I added Deca b/c of the effect 19-nor's often have on loss of appetite it worked like a charm, I gained lean mass because I managed my appetite.
Also I think if I read right 750mg test plus tne plus test P before workouts???? I am not sure how many times a week this is but your test/ tren ratio may be part of the problem esp. with your E2. Tren binds to Ar receptors faster and more strongly than test with a finite number of receptors only so much can be taken up with tren binding stronger and faster that leave the test running the streets rioting so to speak and aromatize to E2 which can cause some of your sides relating to energy...Not mention everyone I know who runs high Test and much lower Tren has the appetite and no energy part of this due to the way Tren partitions calories and handles carbs (burning off as Heat ie night sweats or drenched shirt after climbing stairs and totally out of breath)
I am no scientist but I would think this is possibly due to test/tren ratio.

Also these guys are saying so you have sides why add other things to the mix? Thats the nature of this game... I mean we take AI's, PL inhibitors, things for hair loss, and BPH, Blood pressure, HDL, and this and that, antibiotics for abscess, drugs for ED, things to curb our appetite the list goes on forever sounds like black kettles clambering to me.
I think EQ will increase your appetite honestly. How are your macros? Are you getting enough carbs early enough? right kind of carbs?
But don't forget 19-nors are notorious for loss of appetite just gotta eat even if you don't want to, man up and eat your food....lol. EQ should stand for EATING QUANTITY.

I Think everyone missed a much more alarming thing You said that you don't have enough money to do BW as often as you should... But you've been on cycle since January at like 1000-1200mg of test with the test p and tne (750mg test e + (test p+the oral both pre-workout)).... Dude shorter and smaller cycles and more BW might be a huge help too,not to preach just thinking you might need to prioritize differently if BW is good then cycle your ass off if its janky fix it w/ or w/o other compounds but know where its @ and do something and spend the loot where it needs spent (BW and Counter measures)or stop speculating on why you feel bad and deal with it or get off a few months if you eat well and work hard you will keep the gains or @ least most of them.
my .02 is all

[crazy mike]

I will probably get flamed for this but my last cycle I was using EQ and couldn't stop eating so I added Deca b/c of the effect 19-nor's often have on loss of appetite it worked like a charm, I gained lean mass because I managed my appetite.
Also I think if I read right 750mg test plus tne plus test P before workouts???? I am not sure how many times a week this is but your test/ tren ratio may be part of the problem esp. with your E2. Tren binds to Ar receptors faster and more strongly than test with a finite number of receptors only so much can be taken up with tren binding stronger and faster that leave the test running the streets rioting so to speak and aromatize to E2 which can cause some of your sides relating to energy...
I am no scientist but I would think this is possible.

Also these guys are saying so you have sides why add other things to the mix? Thats the nature of this game... I mean we take AI's, PL inhibitors, things for hair loss, and BPH, Blood pressure, HDL, and this and that, antibiotics for abscess, drugs for ED, things to curb our appetite the list goes on forever sounds like black kettles clambering to me.
I think EQ will increase your appetite honestly how are your macros? Are you getting enough carbs early enough? But don't forget 19-nors are notorious for loss of appetite just gotta eat even if you dont want to man up and eat your food....lol. EQ should stand for EATING QUANTITY.

I Think everyone missed a much more alarming thing You said that you don't have enough money to do BW as often as you should... But you've been on cycle since January at like 1000-1200mg of test with the test p and tne.... Dude shorter and smaller cycles and more BW might be a huge help too,not to preach just thinking you might need to prioritize differently if BW is good then cycle your ass off if its janky fix it w/ or w/o other compounds but know where its @ and do something and spend the loot where it needs spent (BW and Counter measures)or stop speculating on why you feel bad and deal with it or get off a few months if you eat well and work hard you will keep the gains or @ least most of them.
my .02 is all

Great post for me. Thanks. Not an excuse but a fact I have obtained much gear free. I know that sounds suspicious but I will let you know how.
When I started back in Jan I looked up an old (sorry to say) druggie associate. His father died a few years back and left a lot of Test cyp. maybe 8-10 Qty x 10mL vials. I satred out slow.
Then don't know why a guy I met at the gym (age 29) had to abandon his cycle and GAVE me 4 bottles Tren A and 4 bottles Test P. Then I did some work for someone ( a bodybuilder) who had a thing and he gave me some Master and tbol and a few more test.
Then I spent money for more of what not. The TNE was a gift. So I just wanted to say that because I am on a fixed budget and this is what happened I havn't spent much money on gear. I have spent on Test's BW. AS well as my first Endo Doctor gave me BW with Test and Estradiol tests.

SO in regard to $$ money $$ I haven't been to irresponsible. However one thing lead to another as you referred to and on that note , I have little to argue in defense.

Now here at this juncture in the last few weeks during this evolving and grasping at straws cycle I have been made aware by some ( and on another thread) and now look to inside of the reality of my doings.

Oh, the TNE and the Test P extreme input was a last ditch effort for the last week n a half. I can only tell you truthfully what , where, how and when this all has settled in in the last 7-8 months. My learning curve in the last few months has been incredibly intense and fast after returning to my BB life. ( long time away, see my interview)

Please one more note and this is real. Anabolic steroids are not working for me at my age as they once did. NOTHING comparable to the benefits as when I was young. So I am listening with ears wide open ( best mikey can) as I stand being my own gin pig. I will tell you the truth again. AAS is not kicking my a$$ with appetite, or energy and or strength as I know from me, to watching the guys even at 45-50 and reports on here. No one has told me of their experience with themselves or friends dealing with this at 62 years of age.

FINNALLY I like what you are saying and I'm adjusting all of my doings, as we speak. Thanks guy . ...crazy not stupid mike

I have also gotten t3 and Clen for no cost. Just lucky ,

[crazy mike]

NEVER could I have afforded this gear on SSD. Many of the things I did couldn't have paid me cash, but I could acquire the return in gear. Really I have to stand up because I look back and count the bottles and stuff and holy crapper, no fvckin way/ ...cm

[555mjolnir]

T3 and clen will make you tired and feel crud esp. coming off.
didn't mean you were irresponsible just thought buy less gear and spend that money for BW but guess you cant spend less than free.

I still think test is to high....

[555mjolnir]

You met the gear fairy. LOL

[crazy mike]

T3 and clen will make you tired and feel crud esp. coming off.
didn't mean you were irresponsible just thought buy less gear and spend that money for BW but guess you cant spend less than free.

I still think test is to high....

Now I'm confused at your comment but I will move on. I was showing different things I had gotten free or for favors. You are reading what I'm not writing. I'm not using t3 or clen due to what they do. I'm not going to go on explaining how and what I know and what I don't know. I've researched the Clen and The t3 and I have no use for them. I'm not getting ready for a show. I told of my success with Test , Tren and a finish of with Winstrol on another thread. The cycle before my surgery. Great cycle. Thanks or the added education but your now reaching too deep. I feel I'm on the defense with you now. My past, in my eyes back in the 80's as might be shown in this pic assures me I have used aas to a high degree of success along with some good dieting. This I did back in the days when only the pros accompanied by doctors were using with a scientific and educated approach. WE didn't have Tren back then.


Back to your mention of Test too high, I believe you are correct and I have already backed that off.
So thanks again I do appreciate the tips and eye opening but I think the discussion has become moot. I am also recruiting the use of Methyl B12 and a BW test on the 1st of the month, when SSD comes in. ...crazy mike

BTW I'm up and down with insomnia tonight.

[Cuz]

looking pretty dry there cm. who needs tren lol?