concerned about Bloodwork... help needed

[ryobi1]

Hello All,

Just had new Bloods done, Doctor ordered all but SHBG and Estrodial, (not a sensitive assay but all they will do in Canada) I privately paid for the shbg and estro as they can be denied because critia not being met,not a complete requisition on his part as he left out Thyroid knowing I am on synthroid, will discuss this with him on follow up.

I am quite concerned with my lipids, although I was taking winstrol low dosage 10mgs a day to lower my SHBG as my libido was very poor, I have been feeling great, just no Libido, not sure if it was from taking 10 weeks of deca (low dosage as well 100mgs a week) for a cramp I had in my butt in December which made me completely out of commission, I am still recovering, but it is about 90%, it is a long boring story, so I will spare you all. although the day after my first dose, it was tolerable, and improved immensley over the term of use, at least I could go to the gym.

Because of the deca I was concerned about Prolactin, or Shbg, I chose the winstrol over Caber, as I thought maybe it was the least hazardous of the 2. Its hard to get tests you want here.

also my PSA is elevated, was this because of winny or deca? what to do to lower it?

I am on TRT, 40 mgs every 3.5 days,,, I am 60 years old
thank you for your time

[Windex]

I am not the best person to speak to bloodwork but I can give you some insight on your other concerns as a I am also living in Canada.

If you aren't getting the bloodwork you want from your doctor you need to find another doctor. I have never had an issue requesting any type of bloodwork. I go into my appointment, give her a list of bloodwork I want done, and she writes the requisition, no questions asked.

Is your TRT program done by your family physician or an endo? 80mg seems like it would be on a low end especially for a 60 year old male. Do you have the option to possibly work up the dose?

[Youthful55guy]

Hello All,

Just had new Bloods done, Doctor ordered all but SHBG and Estrodial, (not a sensitive assay but all they will do in Canada) I privately paid for the shbg and estro as they can be denied because critia not being met,not a complete requisition on his part as he left out Thyroid knowing I am on synthroid, will discuss this with him on follow up.

I am quite concerned with my lipids, although I was taking winstrol low dosage 10mgs a day to lower my SHBG as my libido was very poor, I have been feeling great, just no Libido, not sure if it was from taking 10 weeks of deca (low dosage as well 100mgs a week) for a cramp I had in my butt in December which made me completely out of commission, I am still recovering, but it is about 90%, it is a long boring story, so I will spare you all. although the day after my first dose, it was tolerable, and improved immensley over the term of use, at least I could go to the gym.

Because of the deca I was concerned about Prolactin, or Shbg, I chose the winstrol over Caber, as I thought maybe it was the least hazardous of the 2. Its hard to get tests you want here.

also my PSA is elevated, was this because of winny or deca? what to do to lower it?

I am on TRT, 40 mgs every 3.5 days,,, I am 60 years old
thank you for your time

In my experience, 10 mg Winstrol to control high SHBG is about double what you need. This is evident in your labs, which shows you are at the bottom of your range. What were you levels before treatment? Also consider that exogenous thyroid hormone (Synthroid in your case) will drive up SHBG. If you need the Synthroid, and you have labs to justify it, then go ahead and take it. However, understand that there is good data to show that it drives up SHBG. Perhaps that's the root of your problem and you are treating side-effects rather than a core problem.

Your total T is not all the great, but your free T is good. The reason for total T being on the low side is that SHBG is low. SHBG protects T from liver metabolism. On the other hand, SHBG also binds T and prevents it from crossing the blood brain barrier, so free T is the more important of the two labs. Personally, I'd lower the Winstrol dose to 5 mg/day to get SHBG up slightly. That will bring your Total T down up and your free T down slightly. Then I'd consider a very slight T adjustment upward (perhaps to 50 mg) to bring the free T back to mid-range.


Your PSA is high. There is nothing that can treat this that I know of. PSA can (not always) is a sign of prostate cancer, but sometimes it's just high without cancer (false positive). I'd HIGHLY consider a digital prostate exam. Also, be careful about biopsies, they can cause more damage and send up PSA even higher. I'm not an expert on this subject, but perhaps others with more experience can comment on the high PSA.

[ryobi1]

I am not the best person to speak to bloodwork but I can give you some insight on your other concerns as a I am also living in Canada.

If you aren't getting the bloodwork you want from your doctor you need to find another doctor. I have never had an issue requesting any type of bloodwork. I go into my appointment, give her a list of bloodwork I want done, and she writes the requisition, no questions asked.

Is your TRT program done by your family physician or an endo? 80mg seems like it would be on a low end especially for a 60 year old male. Do you have the option to possibly work up the dose?

thanks for thoughts windex,
if I did ask my doc, I;m sure he would order them, but with SHBG, and my testosterone results, they would have said I dont meet the critira, and not run the test, so I paid for it, had them do this to me before.

My new Family physician is watching the program, he is not comfortable prescribing T, so he did send me to an endo, went to a intro appt with him, questions and ball massage, says come back in 3 months, get this blood work done, go see him, reviews the BW with me, thens says I graduated...what?... ya your good with protocol, dont call me again... what a quack....the only good thing was he was ok with me self injecting, as my doc wasnt...

[ryobi1]

In my experience, 10 mg Winstrol to control high SHBG is about double what you need. This is evident in your labs, which shows you are at the bottom of your range. What were you levels before treatment? Also consider that exogenous thyroid hormone (Synthroid in your case) will drive up SHBG. If you need the Synthroid, and you have labs to justify it, then go ahead and take it. However, understand that there is good data to show that it drives up SHBG. Perhaps that's the root of your problem and you are treating side-effects rather than a core problem.

Your total T is not all the great, but your free T is good. The reason for total T being on the low side is that SHBG is low. SHBG protects T from liver metabolism. On the other hand, SHBG also binds T and prevents it from crossing the blood brain barrier, so free T is the more important of the two labs. Personally, I'd lower the Winstrol dose to 5 mg/day to get SHBG up slightly. That will bring your Total T down up and your free T down slightly. Then I'd consider a very slight T adjustment upward (perhaps to 50 mg) to bring the free T back to mid-range.


Your PSA is high. There is nothing that can treat this that I know of. PSA can (not always) is a sign of prostate cancer, but sometimes it's just high without cancer (false positive). I'd HIGHLY consider a digital prostate exam. Also, be careful about biopsies, they can cause more damage and send up PSA even higher. I'm not an expert on this subject, but perhaps others with more experience can comment on the high PSA.

Thanks for the response Youthful,
I didnot check bloods before comencing with the winstrol, I only ran it for 2 weeks, and have been off for about that now, I think the winstrol is what messed up my lipids, so when I seen the results I stopped the Winstrol.
as for the synthroid, I had half my thyroid removed years ago, and was doing fine until about 3 years ago, and my antibodies and tsh were through the roof, so I was put on synthroid, 50 mcg, and since last year upped to 75mcg,s
I know maybe a dumb question, but which T is important for the Brain? total T or free T.

I did go to a different Lab for the PSA than before when I was in range, but I dont get how the ranges can very so much from lab to lab, especially when they are all the same syndicate lab. but that probably because I'm not a scientist

[Windex]

thanks for thoughts windex,
if I did ask my doc, I;m sure he would order them, but with SHBG, and my testosterone results, they would have said I dont meet the critira, and not run the test, so I paid for it, had them do this to me before.

My new Family physician is watching the program, he is not comfortable prescribing T, so he did send me to an endo, went to a intro appt with him, questions and ball massage, says come back in 3 months, get this blood work done, go see him, reviews the BW with me, thens says I graduated...what?... ya your good with protocol, dont call me again... what a quack....the only good thing was he was ok with me self injecting, as my doc wasnt...

Are you in Ontario by chance?

[kelkel]

What has your normal psa value been? It's always possible that there's an infection / irritation temporarily elevating it. I'd retest it in 2-3 weeks and see where it's at. If still elevated I'd opt for a 3T MRI if your insurance will cover it. It's non invasive and very thorough, unlike the blind poking and guesswork of a docs finger, imho.

Remember as well, with age can come a rising psa value. It's normal unfortunately. Personally I followed the above course of action when my psa took a dump out of the blue. I've been on Finasteride for several years now without issue and it's been a great help. You could also consider as a first step initiating a protocol of low dose Cialis at 5-10 mgs per day which will help with BPH. Combine it with Doxazosin for an even better result. Discuss it with your doctor.

[Youthful55guy]

Thanks for the response Youthful,
I didnot check bloods before comencing with the winstrol, I only ran it for 2 weeks, and have been off for about that now, I think the winstrol is what messed up my lipids, so when I seen the results I stopped the Winstrol.
as for the synthroid, I had half my thyroid removed years ago, and was doing fine until about 3 years ago, and my antibodies and tsh were through the roof, so I was put on synthroid, 50 mcg, and since last year upped to 75mcg,s
I know maybe a dumb question, but which T is important for the Brain? total T or free T.

I did go to a different Lab for the PSA than before when I was in range, but I dont get how the ranges can very so much from lab to lab, especially when they are all the same syndicate lab. but that probably because I'm not a scientist

Unless you are documented as being high on SHBG, I would not mess with Winstrol. yes, it can mess up your lipids and it is also hard on the liver. I don't seem to have a problem with either at 5 mg, but I do monitor them closely. At 10 mg, I noticed an increase in liver enzymes to just slightly above range. At 15 mg, definitely above range.

Now, coming off Winstrol, your SHBG will increase, and with your low Total T, your free T will drop. I looks to me like you are a good candidate for TRT.

Since you have thyroid issues, I would focus on treating that to get those levels in range. I'm not a big fan of T4 only treatment, but that's up to you and your doc. I prefer to use Armour Thyroid, wich has a good balance of all 4 thyroid hormones.

[ryobi1]

Are you in Ontario by chance?

British Columbia

[ryobi1]

What has your normal psa value been? It's always possible that there's an infection / irritation temporarily elevating it. I'd retest it in 2-3 weeks and see where it's at. If still elevated I'd opt for a 3T MRI if your insurance will cover it. It's non invasive and very thorough, unlike the blind poking and guesswork of a docs finger, imho.

Remember as well, with age can come a rising psa value. It's normal unfortunately. Personally I followed the above course of action when my psa took a dump out of the blue. I've been on Finasteride for several years now without issue and it's been a great help. You could also consider as a first step initiating a protocol of low dose Cialis at 5-10 mgs per day which will help with BPH. Combine it with Doxazosin for an even better result. Discuss it with your doctor.

Thanks Kel,
My average PSA for the last 3 years has been around 2.0... I do expect Psa to increase with age as you say, just to see it out of range is a bit of a shock. I do take a low of cialis every day, 5 mg... the Doxazosin was something I would like to bring up with the doc as wel, after reading about it on here before, I believe it was one of your posts. I will take note of your recommendations and discuss with doc.

On the 3T MRI, My Daughter (a aspiring Doc) worked with a uroligist in the last year, and said they have the equipment now (not in my area), but waits will be long, and it is new here.

[Mr.BB]

As said above dont use winstrol to lower SHBG. Some ppl have success lowering SHBG just by diet changes, by increasing complex carbs and reducing fats. Anedoctal forum experiences, still it is an easy way to fix SHBG if it works for you.

[ryobi1]

Unless you are documented as being high on SHBG, I would not mess with Winstrol. yes, it can mess up your lipids and it is also hard on the liver. I don't seem to have a problem with either at 5 mg, but I do monitor them closely. At 10 mg, I noticed an increase in liver enzymes to just slightly above range. At 15 mg, definitely above range.

Now, coming off Winstrol, your SHBG will increase, and with your low Total T, your free T will drop. I looks to me like you are a good candidate for TRT.

Since you have thyroid issues, I would focus on treating that to get those levels in range. I'm not a big fan of T4 only treatment, but that's up to you and your doc. I prefer to use Armour Thyroid, wich has a good balance of all 4 thyroid hormones.

Thanks again Youthful...
ya, I was just worried my SHBG might have been the culprit for low libido, I have learned a lesson about the winstrol. but with my lipids going askew, it seems like a fairly harsh compound.

That does sound like a bad thing total T increasing and free T lowering, as most docs look at total T and say, "You're fine", I am on TRT, but the level of compitence of doctors treating people up here is pretty sad, you have to be recommended to a Endo, or Urologist by your doc, so if you dont have a legit reason, you wont get one.
The endo I was sent to was archaic, and not sure if he cared to get enlightened on the protocols by those leading the way, he was in his 70s, so set in his ways i guess.

that was another discussion I meant to have was about the armour thyroid, they seem to only be concerned if your TSH in range. the endo I was seeing did run freet3 freet4 and TSH.. probably why he said I graduated, which I thought was thr strangest thing... these problems as I know, dont go away.

Thyroid Function
TSH 3.56 0.32-5.04 mU/L
T4 Free 13.7 10.6-19.7 pmol/L
T3 Free 3.44 3.00-5.90 pmol/L

Test results from last december.