Testosterone Cypionate + HCG + Dbol?

[RockingChair]

Hi there! I'm 28, 170lbs, 5,11"

Yesterday I started my first steroid cycle. I injected 1cc of Testosterone cypionate into my butt cheek, and 500iu of HCG into my stomach fat.

My routine is 1cc test every 4 days, 500iu of HCG every 5 days. I have two bottles of test, I believe that will last 8 weeks. I may pick up another bottle to bring the cycle to 12 weeks.

I will be taking Nolvadex for the PCT.

I bought a bottle of dbol along with the above items.

I'm looking to gain about 10-15lbs of muscle on this cycle, I'm a bit weary of taking the dbol because I don't want massive gains (beyond 15lbs), and would like to avoid fat. My question is, should I be taking the dbol or not?

I'd like the avoid mood swings, and bitch tits (which I hear dbol can bring about).

Thank you for any information.

[austinite]

Welcome,

- We don't understand CC's, milligrams only. 1 CC of Cyp doesn't mean anything.
- No dbol needed.
- You need Clomid along with Nolva to better your chances of recovery.
- 8 weeks is not enough
- Split hCG dose to twice weekly at 250 IU each
- You will not gain 10 to 15 lbs of lean muscle.
- You need an aromatase inhibitor.

Good luck.

[RockingChair]

Welcome,

- We don't understand CC's, milligrams only. 1 CC of Cyp doesn't mean anything.
- No dbol needed.
- You need Clomid along with Nolva to better your chances of recovery.
- 8 weeks is not enough
- Split hCG dose to twice weekly at 250 IU each
- You will not gain 10 to 15 lbs of lean muscle.
- You need an aromatase inhibitor.

Good luck.

Great reply. I'll address your notes.

- We don't understand CC's, milligrams only. 1 CC of Cyp doesn't mean anything.
1cc for me = 250mg

- No dbol needed.
Okay good.

- You need Clomid along with Nolva to better your chances of recovery.
I'll get ahold of Clomid as well.

- 8 weeks is not enough
I'll boost to 12 weeks.

- Split hCG dose to twice weekly at 250 IU each
Okay.

- You will not gain 10 to 15 lbs of lean muscle.
Shitty.

- You need an aromatase inhibitor.
I'll look into this.

Thank you.

[calstate23]

Yeah AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) would be good...Need to keep high estro levels down during cycle....A lot of people tend to use Arimidex (Anastrozole)....

Test 2 shots - 500 mg's a week...

[RockingChair]

Yeah AI (Aromatase Inhibitor) would be good...Need to keep high estro levels down during cycle....A lot of people tend to use Arimidex (Anastrozole)....

Test 2 shots - 500 mg's a week...

Any thoughts on taking aromasin during cycle?

[austinite]

All of this should have been handled prior to your cycle. If you're really and truly wanting to do this right, take the time to read the second and third links in this sticky thread...

http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...-database.html

[RockingChair]

The article about the first time cycle was amazing.

[Zero Mango]

I've read here and elsewhere that clomid and nolva together are not advisable for such a simple cycle. The more shit your adding to the equation the greater your chances of having a negative reaction and the good luch pinpointing the prob. My advice would be more research and consider not taking both C&N choose one and see how it works for you. Nol worked great for me, no sides. I don't see why HCG is nessecary for such a simple cycle either, again I would say keep for first cyc as simple as possible bro...

[austinite]

I've read here and elsewhere that clomid and nolva together are not advisable for such a simple cycle. The more shit your adding to the equation the greater your chances of having a negative reaction and the good luch pinpointing the prob. My advice would be more research and consider not taking both C&N choose one and see how it works for you. Nol worked great for me, no sides. I don't see why HCG is nessecary for such a simple cycle either, again I would say keep for first cyc as simple as possible bro...

Great, now can you explain exactly what negative reactions you're speaking of? What you've read is that during first cycles you should not combine multiple steroids. Not PCT drugs.

You need both, they work in synergy to help you recover. Please, unless you are going to provide details, do not throw random advice out there so you don't hinder someones progress or even worse, hurt them.

So I'm waiting to hear the science behind your statements above... Because it sounds like a random statement without any backing.

[RockingChair]

Sounds like you just shut him down.

Because of some of your amazing posts, I will certainly follow your advice austinite.

[Zero Mango]

Mixing substances is risky, any substances. Especially a bunch substancess that a person has never used before. That's one fact for you. Lots of people use just clo or just nol with great results would you deny that too? Why mess with what works? And why not try just one then the other on your second cycle to see which agrees with your body and promotes best recovery? Anecdotal information is just as important as scientific, you have to take both with a grain of salt. Everyone I know who uses is just recreational and uses just one or the other. Let the flaming continue...

[austinite]

Mixing substances is risky, any substances. Especially a bunch substancess that a person has never used before. That's one fact for you. Lots of people use just clo or just nol with great results would you deny that too? Why mess with what works? And why not try just one then the other on your second cycle to see which agrees with your body and promotes best recovery? Anecdotal information is just as important as scientific, you have to take both with a grain of salt. Everyone I know who uses is just recreational and uses just one or the other. Let the flaming continue...

Still no backing, just random statements. You keep saying "I've read somewhere" yet you go into no detail....

There are 2 major components involved in recovery. Testosterone production and Spermatogenesis.

LH and FSH are both required for the equation. LH is produced by the pituitary and stimulates the Leydig cells to produce testosterone. Once testosterone is in production it works alongside FSH and stimulates sertoli cells to produce sperm. Sperm production is hindered if either of these are unhealthy. They both work in synergy. You need BOTH to be at healthy levels.

clomid has multiple effects. It's an anti-estrogen, so it obviously decreases the estrogenic effects in your body by stimulating the Hypothalamus back to life and sending gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH) to your pituitary, so that LH/FSH can be secreted.

Nolva boosts the effects of clomid because it put clomid into "competition" mode where they both fight for a receptors to bind to. This competitiveness will only occur with the presence of BOTH nolva/clomid, and will inevitably resolve the issue of excess estrogen in the Hypothalamus. This will trigger both LH and FSH to crank UP, as the high estrogen in this cluster is suppressive. This entire scenario is not as effective with only one drug.

Furthermore varying the compounds; Since we know both stimulate LH, what most don't know is that the act is different. clomid boosts the amplitude of LH serum, but has no effect on the frequency. Nolvadex is the complete opposite in that area, where it boosts the actual frequency of LH and has no effect on its amplitude.

You're probably assuming they're identical and overpowering... clomid is a mixed agonist/antagonist for the estradiol receptor. Nolva is also mixed, however.... it is a pure antagonist in the E receptor in breast tissue. There is a reason that clomid is not recommended for gynecomastia reversal, but Nolva is.

Can you recover with just Nolvadex, or just clomid? Well, anything is possible. But why would you take that risk if the combination gives you a much better chance? To save a few bucks and risk your health? clomid when coupled with Nolvadex is clearly the safer choice over using either compound individually.

There's NEVER a good reason to spew random information and flood the boards with random statements. You also JUST started a thread asking about running multiple compounds. Does your random rule not apply to you? Not trying to beat you up here, Zero, but let's be logical, at least.

[RockingChair]

^ That post should be a sticky. Thanks so much austinite, this is a great discussion.

[knuckles69]

I'd listen to aust. This other guy is a little confused

[3day]

Do not listen to his advice of no HCG either RockingChair. It's not about doing a simple or advance cycle, it's about how well you recover once your off cycle. HCG is used to help the recovery process.

[RockingChair]

HCG is a must, I don't want my boys to shut down.

[Zero Mango]

Its all good. Take everything u can get ur hands on. When u die at 45 u will leave a mint corpse.

[austinite]

Its all good. Take everything u can get ur hands on. When u die at 45 u will leave a mint corpse.

Interesting response. Very childish.

[Cuz]

Its all good. Take everything u can get ur hands on. When u die at 45 u will leave a mint corpse.

1. that's not a good thing to say even if your joking.

2. don't argue with austenite he knows his shit and is very helpful member if not the most helpful.

3. understand that taking a lot of drugs is not good for ones body, but we are talking steroids here...and hcg, clomid, and nolva are a necessity while using steroids albeit using them at the proper doses and timeframes.

[Fcastle357]

Its all good. Take everything u can get ur hands on. When u die at 45 u will leave a mint corpse.

Zero mango out to make some friends. Hey even if you don't agree with everything someone posts at least try to give some good evidence or at least some thought provoking view point. There's a ton of knowledge here some I take and some I don't. Only been here a little while but can tell when to pick my battles. Plus you have only done one cycle? and your debating people with a life time of experience.

[EasyDoesIt]

Hi there! I'm 28, 170lbs, 5,11"

Yesterday I started my first steroid cycle. I injected 1cc of Testosterone cypionate into my butt cheek, and 500iu of HCG into my stomach fat.

My routine is 1cc test every 4 days, 500iu of HCG every 5 days. I have two bottles of test, I believe that will last 8 weeks. I may pick up another bottle to bring the cycle to 12 weeks.

I will be taking Nolvadex for the PCT.

I bought a bottle of dbol along with the above items.

I'm looking to gain about 10-15lbs of muscle on this cycle, I'm a bit weary of taking the dbol because I don't want massive gains (beyond 15lbs), and would like to avoid fat. My question is, should I be taking the dbol or not?

I'd like the avoid mood swings, and bitch tits (which I hear dbol can bring about).

Thank you for any information.

I am assuming the reason you are here is to obtain quality advice. To make your experience with the gear you are taking a good one i would take Austinite advice. You don't want to experiment, you want facts and proven information. Also, if you were sold the products believing a gain of 10-15lbs of muscle would happen by your supplier, i would be leary of that person. Hope you have a good diet and training regimen planned as the test is not a miracle worker, it takes work and proper eating to get results.
Best of luck to you!

[RockingChair]

I am assuming the reason you are here is to obtain quality advice. To make your experience with the gear you are taking a good one i would take Austinite advice. You don't want to experiment, you want facts and proven information. Also, if you were sold the products believing a gain of 10-15lbs of muscle would happen by your supplier, i would be leary of that person. Hope you have a good diet and training regimen planned as the test is not a miracle worker, it takes work and proper eating to get results.
Best of luck to you!

My supplier said it's typical to lose half of your gains, this is why PCT is important. I agree that austinite's advice is quite good.

Of course diet, exercise and test are the combination. After 5 weeks I'm hoping to notice this "difference" everyone is talking about.

[EasyDoesIt]

My supplier said it's typical to lose half of your gains, this is why PCT is important. I agree that austinite's advice is quite good.

Of course diet, exercise and test are the combination. After 5 weeks I'm hoping to notice this "difference" everyone is talking about.

The pct is important to retain gains as long as you continue intense training and diet after cycle. Did he tell u that u would put on 10-15lbs of muscle? Its an ongoing process, not just a couple months. Discipline, discipline. Nothing good comes easy.

[RockingChair]

The pct is important to retain gains as long as you continue intense training and diet after cycle. Did he tell u that u would put on 10-15lbs of muscle? Its an ongoing process, not just a couple months. Discipline, discipline. Nothing good comes easy.

No, he said gaining 15-25lbs would be possible by eating and lifting hard, but that half of it would be fat and water weight which I would lose after a cycle (ideally).

[Back In Black]

At 5'11 and 170lbs, regardless of you bodyfat, then diet appears to be your issue.

Can you tell us you calorie intake for your bulk, together with macro breakdown?

Byways what is your bodyfat%?

[RockingChair]

My BF percentage is a bit high around 16% (you can see the outline of my abs, especially the upper section. The Lower section looks like I have a tire around me.)

When I was gaining up until early July, I was taking in 4000 calories a day. I hit the gym about 1-1.5hr a day, 5-6 days per week. I noticed that I was getting pretty chunky so between the beginning of July, I cut my calories and now I've lost about 8-10lbs.

My diet was/is mostly protein, though there were alot of carbs. All the usual suspects: egg whites, tuna fish, brown rice, chicken, oatmeal, protein shakes, green salad, etc.

When I was bulking I did no cardio at all, now I do HIIT training before every workout. About 15m, 30s super fast, 30s very slow.

[EasyDoesIt]

I'm looking to gain about 10-15lbs of muscle on this cycle, I'm a bit weary of taking the dbol because I don't want massive gains (beyond 15lbs), and would like to avoid fat. My question is, should I be taking the dbol or not?

I'd like the avoid mood swings, and bitch tits (which I hear dbol can bring about).

Thank you for any information.

No, he said gaining 15-25lbs would be possible by eating and lifting hard, but that half of it would be fat and water weight which I would lose after a cycle (ideally).

Ok i was just going by your first post stating you would like to gain 10-15lbs. of muscle.
There is no need to gain fat and taking an AI you should not put on much water weight without the dbol. This is just me talking, but i feel if your diet and training is in line the optimum goal is to put on muscle and lose body fat.
I like the whole egg, it gives you a complete protein and fills you up better.
Again Best of Luck!

[RockingChair]

Whole eggs eh? Well if that's your body in the profile pic, whole eggs are starting to sound good!

[EasyDoesIt]

Whole eggs eh? Well if that's your body in the profile pic, whole eggs are starting to sound good!

Yes it is, i did not do the whole eggs thing for very long. Matter of fact it was back in the early 90's i believe they were popular, but things change. I use to train in Golds Venice and everyone was pounding down dozens of egg whites and the gym stunk! lol

[RockingChair]

I have a weird way of eating them. Right now I cook a whole container of egg whites, then throw half of that cooked batch into the blender with whatever the shake of the day is. For example: protein powder, egg whites, kale, bit of fruit, almond butter, almond milk (I'm lactose intolerant).

[EasyDoesIt]

I have a weird way of eating them. Right now I cook a whole container of egg whites, then throw half of that cooked batch into the blender with whatever the shake of the day is. For example: protein powder, egg whites, kale, bit of fruit, almond butter, almond milk (I'm lactose intolerant).

I like to eat my eggs not blend, Keith hard boiled eggs in the refrigerator and there a great source of protein if you need a fix and filling. Bring them to a boil for a couple minutes shut off the heat put on a lid and leave them for 10 minutes that way they will not over cook. Getting a little off track here re: cooking, but based on your body fat I would NOT be thinking bulking phase. Keep proteins and greens hi and carbs moderate. "TRAIN PROPERLY" to many peple start Cycle with very little knowledge of training. Not sure if I read it right but you stated you were doing HIT training before your workout??? HIIT is not a form of warm up training.

[RockingChair]

I like to eat my eggs not blend, Keith hard boiled eggs in the refrigerator and there a great source of protein if you need a fix and filling. Bring them to a boil for a couple minutes shut off the heat put on a lid and leave them for 10 minutes that way they will not over cook. Getting a little off track here re: cooking, but based on your body fat I would NOT be thinking bulking phase. Keep proteins and greens hi and carbs moderate. "TRAIN PROPERLY" to many peple start Cycle with very little knowledge of training. Not sure if I read it right but you stated you were doing HIT training before your workout??? HIIT is not a form of warm up training.

Yeah HIIT training has been exhausting me a bit before a weight lifting workout. I heard it's bad to do cardio after weight lifting. I workout different muscle groups every day, and HIIT training is supposed to be most effective for a fast metabolism.

I'm on these roids now, I know you're supposed to be packing on the food but I plan to do it moderately. I just want lean muscle and less fat. When this is all said and done, maybe in a year from now my goal is to be 185-190, solid muscle, low BFI.

[Back In Black]

So, what are your planned bulking calories and macro split?

And your actual goals for this cycle?

[EasyDoesIt]

Yeah HIIT training has been exhausting me a bit before a weight lifting workout. I heard it's bad to do cardio after weight lifting. I workout different muscle groups every day, and HIIT training is supposed to be most effective for a fast metabolism.

I'm on these roids now, I know you're supposed to be packing on the food but I plan to do it moderately. I just want lean muscle and less fat. When this is all said and done, maybe in a year from now my goal is to be 185-190, solid muscle, low BFI.

Re: Just the opposite on cardio, bad to do before, do a dynamic warm up and hit weights. You need all your strength to hit iron properly. Better to do short interval cardio after, heart rate already up and jump right in. Better start reading about training daily. Not trying to sound negative, but there is a lot to learn.

[RockingChair]

So, what are your planned bulking calories and macro split?

And your actual goals for this cycle?

Goals for this 12-16week cycle:

1. Lose body fat, down to 10% or so.

2. Gain muscle, 5-8lbs. Without steroids it's possible to gain about 2-3lbs of muscle per month, so I hope the "difference" steroids make will help.

My macro split is ideally: 60p/35c/15f

Planned calories are: 3000 per day, I feel like if I eat anymore than that my body will just get chubbier. Maybe the roids will change that concept.

[RockingChair]

Re: Just the opposite on cardio, bad to do before, do a dynamic warm up and hit weights. You need all your strength to hit iron properly. Better to do short interval cardio after, heart rate already up and jump right in. Better start reading about training daily. Not trying to sound negative, but there is a lot to learn.

I've been working out for about 2 years, there always seems to be more to learn. Can you recommend any daily training articles?

[EasyDoesIt]

I've been working out for about 2 years, there always seems to be more to learn. Can you recommend any daily training articles?

I'm sorry, i really do not know of any. There are several books out there. I have utilized trainer cert manuals for years and read, tested various exercises. I have been involved for so many years that it's been on going learning and changing. You will have to head to the bookstore and look through some of them. There are a few i would recommend to help prevent injury such as Core Performance Mark Verstegen and Framework by Dr. Nick Dinubile

[RockingChair]

I'm sorry, i really do not know of any. There are several books out there. I have utilized trainer cert manuals for years and read, tested various exercises. I have been involved for so many years that it's been on going learning and changing. You will have to head to the bookstore and look through some of them. There are a few i would recommend to help prevent injury such as Core Performance Mark Verstegen and Framework by Dr. Nick Dinubile

Cool! Thanks!

[mkelly]

I am in the 3rd week of my pct .... Clomid 100/50/50/50 ....

I read the post about using both Clomid and Novaldex ... I didn't use Novaldex .... Anything I should do now??

[AlphaMike]

How do you feel?