Chardio am on empty stomach?

[phwSSJ]

I have heard so much about doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach.

I asked my exersize physiology prof. for his thougths on the matter. He said that it does not matter if you do cardio in the morning or later in the day, and that am and empty stomach will not burn more fat. He said you will just have less energy by doing cardio in the am on an empty stomach and that it doesnt make sense scientifically for that method to burn more fat.

I would like to hear some feed back

[Iowa]

I have heard so much about doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach.

I asked my exersize physiology prof. for his thougths on the matter. He said that it does not matter if you do cardio in the morning or later in the day, and that am and empty stomach will not burn more fat. He said you will just have less energy by doing cardio in the am on an empty stomach and that it doesnt make sense scientifically for that method to burn more fat.

I would like to hear some feed back

Did your professor get his degree from a Cracker-Jack box?

[seanw]

can anybody produce some studies that show this to be true one way ot the other ?

[SwoleCat]

Man, do a search here or simply research on Google. I already know the deal w/all of this (it's my career and business) so I'm not going to go digging for studies. Like my Dad says if you want answers, go hunting for them. So Sean, I encourage you to do some research if you are interested in learning more. Nothing like the sense of accomplishment you get from doing things yourself.

At A.R., this has been covered more times than Vanessa Del Rio has been f*cked, so a search here will yield tons of information, I'd try that as well.

That professor is a dumb ass by the way.

~SC~

[SwoleCat]

Did your professor get his degree from a Cracker-Jack box?

I don't even think Cracker Jack boxes contain that amount of stupidity.



~SC~

[phwSSJ]

Ok guys take it easy.
I am not saying he is right, its hard to know who or what to believe, but he does a lot of scientific research and studies. And you swole cat look preety riped and pumped to me so you also must know what you are doing.

Well if you think that is crazy let me tell you about some other stuff he taught us that sounded kina weird.

1. Dellayed Onset Muscle Soreness (DOMS) is not caused by lactic acid build up. He says it is impossible since the the lactate levels go back like 15-30 min after exercise so it is impossible for that to be the cause. He says that DOMS occurs simple because the muscles are broken down and torn up and that is why there is pain.

2.Yall are gona flip on this one...He says that ice does not speed up or even help healing. He says that it is just supposed to relieve pain. His logic on that is, swelling and fluid build up is the body's natural way of healing, so why stop it.

Whats yalls take on this....

[RoNNy THe BuLL]

I heard "Chardio" really burns.

*drumroll for corny ass joke*

[Hot-Rox]

Bro - just out of curiosity what does you prof look like (chubster)? You know what they say: If you can't do it - teach. Vet's like Swole and others have real world experience on what works. Most nutritionists are still arguing about if more than 1/2 of a gram of protein per pound is too much protein for the human body - when bodybuilders have known for decades through experience that it takes 1 to 2 grams of protein of body weight to grow properly. You are doing the right thing by asking questions. That's the way we all learn. Just be sure to use multiple creditable sources to get the best well rounded info you can then test what works best for you.

[Jock191]

Number 1 if this is the crap your "teacher" is telling you I say drop that class b4 you become as stupid as he is and then you start saying dumb sh!t like this on your own.. Im not trying to flame you but **** you cant really belive this stuff, do you? You teacher is a moron.. Do some research and you will find out that im not lying. As for the DOMS there he is correcet with that. "Delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) is not a new phenomenon; research investigating the cause of delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) dates back to the early 1900s and several theories have been put forward to explain the underlying cause. Probably one of the most popular explanations is the accumulation of lactic acid in the muscles. Popular yes, correct, no. Blood and muscle lactate levels typically return to normal values after 30-60 minutes of recovery. Eccentric exercise produces the most severe muscle soreness but requires relatively low energy expenditure (even less than needed for concentric exercise). Therefore if lactic acid were to cause delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS), then muscle soreness would be expected to be greater after exercise with a higher metabolic cost (concentric activity). In addition, we know from bitter experience that the pain associated with delayed onset muscle soreness (DOMS) peaks after 24-72 hours. When we consider that lactate concentrations return to pre-exercise levels within 60 minutes it seem ludicrous to suggest that the two are somehow related."

[phwSSJ]

Thanks for the advice guys. It sounded weird so thats why I am asking yall.
And my prof is actually built pretty decent, he does the Iron Man from what I have heard around the department, he also used to do motorcross.

I wasnt trying to start any schit I just wanted to know what yall thought.

Thanks again.

More opinions are welcome!

[jgg1221]

well i could see how the AM may not make a difference.... (because, well what if someone works a night job and has to wake up in the PM)

but an empty stomach? doesnt sound like theres any way around that

if you fill your stomach up within an hour or 2 of doin some cardio, my best guess is that your body is gonna take some of that food and use it as fuel....

as opposed to using the preexisting fat cells on your body

it just doesnt make sense any other way...

but please, by all means correct me if im wrong

[seanw]

Man, do a search here or simply research on Google. I already know the deal w/all of this (it's my career and business) so I'm not going to go digging for studies. Like my Dad says if you want answers, go hunting for them. So Sean, I encourage you to do some research if you are interested in learning more. Nothing like the sense of accomplishment you get from doing things yourself.

At A.R., this has been covered more times than Vanessa Del Rio has been f*cked, so a search here will yield tons of information, I'd try that as well.

That professor is a dumb ass by the way.

~SC~

Thanks SC will do. Glad to see you are a Vanessa fan. I will do a search on her as well

[carbs-rule]

I might spend a little time looking through the journal databases to see if I can find this info. A lot of what I hear about bodybuilding ends up being gym teacher myths. Did you specify the type of cardio to the professor? He might be right, depending on the scenario. For example, HIIT is known to burn more fat over a longer period of time, even though it doesn't really burn fat during the actual cardio. And I can never do HIIT on an empty stomach, simply because I run out of energy too soon.

[carbs-rule]

I found about 7 peer reviewed studies on it. Here are two articles I found that you can look at. The 1997 article was the latest I found, but that is probably just a result of the search terms I used. Also, the references have around five other relevant articles, these two are the only ones that I still have open. Basically, performing cardio on an empty stomach will burn more fat than after a meal (these had carbs in meals, I don't know about just protein or p/f). However, the first study found that if the body is in calorie deficit, then longitudinaly the amount of fat lost was barely different between the two groups, regardless of fasting before or not. By barely, I think it would come out to something around 7 weeks to have a pound difference between the two groups. But then again, that adds up to an additional 5 lbs a year, assuming this rate stays constant.



"Effect of physical exercise on glycogen turnover and net substrate utilization according to the nutritional state."
Schneiter P, Di Vetta V, Jequier E, Tappy L. Am J Physiol. 1995 Dec;269(6 Pt 1):E1031-6.


"Lipolytic suppression following carbohydrate ingestion limits fat oxidation during exercise."
Horowitz JF, Mora-Rodriguez R, Byerley LO, Coyle EF.
Am J Physiol. 1997 Oct;273(4 Pt 1):E768-75

....and Jock191, don't start flaming some guy who is asking for feedback on a proposed idea. You tell the guy to do some research when all you did was completely copy and paste that entire post without even citing it? What a genius!
(http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e-soreness.htm)

[phwSSJ]

well i could see how the AM may not make a difference.... (because, well what if someone works a night job and has to wake up in the PM)

but an empty stomach? doesnt sound like theres any way around that

if you fill your stomach up within an hour or 2 of doin some cardio, my best guess is that your body is gonna take some of that food and use it as fuel....

as opposed to using the preexisting fat cells on your body

it just doesnt make sense any other way...

but please, by all means correct me if im wrong

He said that by doing cardio in the morning on an empty stomach is not good cuz #1 your body was just fasting and something about not having some chemicals in the body and no energy to get a good cardio workout. He also said something about energy levels after the work out being very low. I will ask him again and get you guys the details on monday.
#2 He said that you can still burn fat even if you consume carbs. It just depends on the intensity of the cardio. He said that at a certian heart rate your body uses fat for energy when it goes higher than that it starts using carbs, and say like if you are running an ultra marathon or something then your body has no choice but to use muscle protien.
He says that it is extreemly hard for a person to make their body use its own muscle protien for fuel and that overtraining does not make you loose muscle.
It is hard to say he is not right because he does a lot of research, tests, and studies on endurance athletes and what not. He is prety highly respected in the department as well.

[phwSSJ]

I found about 7 peer reviewed studies on it. Here are two articles I found that you can look at. The 1997 article was the latest I found, but that is probably just a result of the search terms I used. Also, the references have around five other relevant articles, these two are the only ones that I still have open. Basically, performing cardio on an empty stomach will burn more fat than after a meal (these had carbs in meals, I don't know about just protein or p/f). However, the first study found that if the body is in calorie deficit, then longitudinaly the amount of fat lost was barely different between the two groups, regardless of fasting before or not. By barely, I think it would come out to something around 7 weeks to have a pound difference between the two groups. But then again, that adds up to an additional 5 lbs a year, assuming this rate stays constant.



"Effect of physical exercise on glycogen turnover and net substrate utilization according to the nutritional state."
Schneiter P, Di Vetta V, Jequier E, Tappy L. Am J Physiol. 1995 Dec;269(6 Pt 1):E1031-6.


"Lipolytic suppression following carbohydrate ingestion limits fat oxidation during exercise."
Horowitz JF, Mora-Rodriguez R, Byerley LO, Coyle EF.
Am J Physiol. 1997 Oct;273(4 Pt 1):E768-75

....and Jock191, don't start flaming some guy who is asking for feedback on a proposed idea. You tell the guy to do some research when all you did was completely copy and paste that entire post without even citing it? What a genius!
(http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e-soreness.htm)

Thanks dude!

[Jock191]

I found about 7 peer reviewed studies on it. Here are two articles I found that you can look at. The 1997 article was the latest I found, but that is probably just a result of the search terms I used. Also, the references have around five other relevant articles, these two are the only ones that I still have open. Basically, performing cardio on an empty stomach will burn more fat than after a meal (these had carbs in meals, I don't know about just protein or p/f). However, the first study found that if the body is in calorie deficit, then longitudinaly the amount of fat lost was barely different between the two groups, regardless of fasting before or not. By barely, I think it would come out to something around 7 weeks to have a pound difference between the two groups. But then again, that adds up to an additional 5 lbs a year, assuming this rate stays constant.



"Effect of physical exercise on glycogen turnover and net substrate utilization according to the nutritional state."
Schneiter P, Di Vetta V, Jequier E, Tappy L. Am J Physiol. 1995 Dec;269(6 Pt 1):E1031-6.


"Lipolytic suppression following carbohydrate ingestion limits fat oxidation during exercise."
Horowitz JF, Mora-Rodriguez R, Byerley LO, Coyle EF.
Am J Physiol. 1997 Oct;273(4 Pt 1):E768-75

....and Jock191, don't start flaming some guy who is asking for feedback on a proposed idea. You tell the guy to do some research when all you did was completely copy and paste that entire post without even citing it? What a genius!
(http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/...e-soreness.htm)

Number 1 buddy I wasnt flaming him and I made sure I said that in the post.. Number 2 if you would have paid alittle attention to detail you would have seen that I used QUOTATION MARKS in my post for the whole part on DOMS.. Also I said that his teacher was right on that.. So b4 you try and call me out pay alittle bit of attention to what you read. Now on to who was talking about am cardio... No it doesnt have to be in the am if you have a night job and wake up at whatever time.. The point is to do it in a fasting state.. Like for me Im a bouncer on the weekends I get off at 5 am on sat and sun so I sleep from 5 am to 1 pmand then get up and do cardio.. It doesnt have to be am just a fasting state.

[bluethunder]

I do agree with DOMS statement directly caused by fiber breakdown. Pain associated during/immediately after workout has Lactic Acid elements involved and this is called OMS or ONSET MUSCLE SORENESS. The two are different but hard to distinguished as you may experience OMS but not DOMS but having OMS most of the time you will get some form of DOMS. DOMS affects are lasting for days thats why is called Delayed. As for having no energy for cardio on a empty stomach after being in a catabolic state that is hogwash as how many cannot get on a treadmil for 30 minutes or so? Contacting muscles DO require carbs and energy as you require ATP within cells but not cardio which is easy to do if your cardiovascular system is good.

[Win94]

That professor is a dumb ass by the way.

What Swolecat said.

[spoc]

Man, do a search here or simply research on Google. I already know the deal w/all of this (it's my career and business) so I'm not going to go digging for studies. Like my Dad says if you want answers, go hunting for them. So Sean, I encourage you to do some research if you are interested in learning more. Nothing like the sense of accomplishment you get from doing things yourself.

At A.R., this has been covered more times than Vanessa Del Rio has been f*cked, so a search here will yield tons of information, I'd try that as well.

That professor is a dumb ass by the way.

~SC~

[carbs-rule]

Number 1 buddy I wasnt flaming him and I made sure I said that in the post.. Number 2 if you would have paid alittle attention to detail you would have seen that I use QUOTATIN MARKS in my post for the whole part on DOMS.. Also I said that his teacher was right on that.. So b4 you try and call me out pay alittle bit of attention to what you read. Now on to who was talking about am cardio... No it doesnt have to be in the am if you have a night job and wake up at whatever time.. The point is to do it in a fasting state.. Like for me Im a bouncer on the weekends I get off at 5 am on sat and sun so I sleep from 5 am to 1 pmand then get up and do cardio.. It doesnt have to be am just a fasting state.

Next time you use QUOTATIN MARKS cite them. And the point the professor is trying to make is not about morning, afternoon, or night. It is about fasting state, which he is arguing has little effect.

[Jock191]

Next time you use QUOTATIN MARKS cite them. And the point the professor is trying to make is not about morning, afternoon, or night. It is about fasting state, which he is arguing has little effect.

Sorry I misspelled a word. I wrote that at 6am while being drunk. I understand what the professors point is BUT my comment was to jgg1221 b/c he said something about he sees why am might not make a difference.If you have a night job and wake up in the pm. I was making the point that its not really about am or pm but about doing it in a fasting state.. Thats what my point was.

[Commando_Barbi]

For me the answer lies with the results. When I cardio before my first daily meal....I lose much more fat than when I cardio later in the day after having had several meals. I also feel better through out the day.

[Hypertrophy]

You won't burn "more fat" in the morning, you'll burn a "higher percent of fat."
Big difference.