cardio, heartrate, and calories burned

[kona dawg]

I know that if I do more than 70 percent of my heartrate I start burning muscle-I do an hour on the elliptical and keep my heartrate there and when I'm done it says I burned 850 calories-Now, If i run 3o minutes my heartrate is up in the 85 percent range which means I'm burning muscle but it says I only burned 450 calories. So what gives? Seems like the hour would burn more muscle since I burned so many more calories even though my hr was in range

[MFT81]

OMG, dude your post is confusing as fck.

1. Lets get it straight,

When your heart rate approaches 75% of max or higher (220-age) It dosent nessecarily burn muscle, Actually what happens is that your primary fuel source is glycogen (Stored Carbs) with a small percentage coming from stored fat.

When your heart rate stays in the 60-75 % (I Use 170-age for fat burning heart rate) range your primary fuel source is fat but a small % comes from glycogen as well.

You basically answeared your own question but came to the wrong conclusion.

a treadmill or eliptical dosent give a shit about what fuel source you used to exercise, it just gives you an idea based on weight and age how many CALORIES (and we know cals come from fat pro carbs) you burned.

Your were in a pretty close range 60% vs 75% from both stand points its just that one workout was 30mins and one was an hour. so of course you burned more CALORIES at an hour (But not nessecarily muscle) cause you worked out longer.

So what is best, why do we recommend the lower intensity to burn fat, Well for the most part we are concered with how much muscle we have, we dont want to risk burning it up. so we stick with a lower intensity at longer times.
Therefore we can emphasize burning fat with a minumum amount of glycogen and hopefully no muscle tissue.

a lot of other factors come into play, this hopefully explains the general idea,

Hopefully........

[MFT81]

I know that if I do more than 70 percent of my heartrate I start burning muscle(Not necessarily you emphasize glycogen as primary fuel source)-I do an hour on the elliptical and keep my heartrate there and when I'm done it says I burned 850 calories-Now, If i run 3o minutes my heartrate is up in the 85 percent range which means I'm burning muscle(No, Probably mostly Carbs, some fat, and no muscle if you take BCAA or pro before hand) but it says I only burned 450 calories. So what gives? Seems like the hour would burn more CALORIES since I burned so many more calories even though my hr was in range

See how this is confusing when you use the right words?

[kona dawg]

The more I read my own post the more confused I got-I am on my first cycle of test en. and I still have a little fat but I don't want to chance burning any muscle. Its getting pretty outside and I love to run outside so I can take my dogs but my heartrate is too high when I jog and I can't get it high enough walking-just stressing really-I wear a hr monitor so I guess ill stick w the ellipptical, I can adjust it pretty easy to stay where I want

[Mealticket]

OMG, dude your post is confusing as fck.

1. Lets get it straight,

When your heart rate approaches 80% of max (220-age) It dosent nessecarily burn muscle, Actually what happens is that your primary fuel source is glycogen (Stored Carbs) with a small percentage coming from stored fat.

When your heart rate stays in the 65-75 % (I Use 170-age for fat burning heart rate) range your primary fuel source is fat but a small % comes from glycogen as well.

You basically answeared your own question but came to the wrong conclusion.

a treadmill or eliptical dosent give a shit about what fuel source you used to exercise, it just gives you an idea based on weight and age how many CALORIES (and we know cals come from fat pro carbs) you burned.

Your were in a pretty close range 75% vs 80% from both stand points its just that one workout was 30mins and one was an hour. so of course you burned more CALORIES at an hour (But not nessecarily muscle) cause you worked out longer.

So what is best, why do we recommend the lower intensity to burn fat, Well for the most part we are concered with how much muscle we have, we dont want to risk burning it up. so we stick with a lower intensity at longer times.
Therefore we can emphasize burning fat with a minumum amount of glycogen and hopefully no muscle tissue.

a lot of other factors come into play, this hopefully explains the general idea,

Hopefully........

I agree mostly except you start to go out of your fat burning zone @ 65%-70%
@ a rate of 65% greater then your max hr your body can longer metabolize fat for fuel and is dependant completly on your glycogne stores.
In highely anaerobic, and more so aerobic athlete the, % @ which your body can meatbolize fat for fuel is higher then your ave Joe.
The average person can store approx 45 minutes of glycogen for fuel @ the rate slightly adove when they stop metabolizing fat for fuel. in highly trained world calss athletes this # can approach 75 minutes.
Just work out as hard as you want and burn calories.
as long as you don't completly burn off your glycogen stores, 45minutes @ around 70% max hr, you're not even going to be thinking about losking muscle. And if you decide to wqorkout @ that intensity for longer than that duraction supplemnt your hydrationw/ a sports energy drink equivelant to 1/2 the strength of Gatorade

[s00noma]

OMG, dude your post is confusing as fck.

1. Lets get it straight,

When your heart rate approaches 80% of max (220-age) It dosent nessecarily burn muscle, Actually what happens is that your primary fuel source is glycogen (Stored Carbs) with a small percentage coming from stored fat.

When your heart rate stays in the 65-75 % (I Use 170-age for fat burning heart rate) range your primary fuel source is fat but a small % comes from glycogen as well.

You basically answeared your own question but came to the wrong conclusion.

a treadmill or eliptical dosent give a shit about what fuel source you used to exercise, it just gives you an idea based on weight and age how many CALORIES (and we know cals come from fat pro carbs) you burned.

Your were in a pretty close range 75% vs 80% from both stand points its just that one workout was 30mins and one was an hour. so of course you burned more CALORIES at an hour (But not nessecarily muscle) cause you worked out longer.

So what is best, why do we recommend the lower intensity to burn fat, Well for the most part we are concered with how much muscle we have, we dont want to risk burning it up. so we stick with a lower intensity at longer times.
Therefore we can emphasize burning fat with a minumum amount of glycogen and hopefully no muscle tissue.

a lot of other factors come into play, this hopefully explains the general idea,

Hopefully........

any reason you use 170-age for your calculation? i thought it was supposed to be 220-age??

[kona dawg]

really confused now

[MFT81]

any reason you use 170-age for your calculation? i thought it was supposed to be 220-age??

No, 220-age is your Max heart rate, meaning this is as high as you should run/exercise period. any higher and it not safe.

For cardiovascular health benefits you should run at 75% or higher of your max

For fat burning benefits you should run at around 60-75% some guys do 220-age * .70 for fat burining I hate math so I just take 170-age. its about the same percentage either way.....

[MFT81]

really confused now

Did you understand my first post?

If you did your on your way.

Real Easy.

For Cardio/heart benefits 70% or higher of max hrt rate (220-age/Im 25 yrs old so that would be 136 or higher.)

For Fat burning benefits, around 65-70% of max heart rate (220-age/im 25yrs old so that would be around 126 or a bit higher.)

You said you like to run with the doggie so do it once or twice a week. Just pound some whey or BCAA's before hand if your worried about tapping into amino acid stores (i.e. muscle)

People get so paranoid about keeping toped off protein wise, you'll be ok, your just trying to lean out while enjoying the fruits of your labor. GO out run with your pup,

Outside+great physique+pup=hot ass. hopefully

[MFT81]

I agree mostly except you start to go out of your fat burning zone @ 65%-70%
@ a rate of 65% greater then your max hr your body can longer metabolize fat for fuel and is dependant completly on your glycogne stores.
In highely anaerobic, and more so aerobic athlete the, % @ which your body can meatbolize fat for fuel is higher then your ave Joe.
The average person can store approx 45 minutes of glycogen for fuel @ the rate slightly adove when they stop metabolizing fat for fuel. in highly trained world calss athletes this # can approach 75 minutes.
Just work out as hard as you want and burn calories.
as long as you don't completly burn off your glycogen stores, 45minutes @ around 70% max hr, you're not even going to be thinking about losking muscle. And if you decide to wqorkout @ that intensity for longer than that duraction supplemnt your hydrationw/ a sports energy drink equivelant to 1/2 the strength of Gatorade

I APPOLOGIZE, MEALTICKET

[s00noma]

No, 220-age is your Max heart rate, meaning this is as high as you should run/exercise period. any higher and it not safe.

For cardiovascular health benefits you should run at 75% or higher of your max

For fat burning benefits you should run at around 60-75% some guys do 220-age * .70 for fat burining I hate math so I just take 170-age. its about the same percentage either way.....

yeah, i knew about the 65-75 percent thing, just didnt get the 170 part. I get where you are coming from with the math but depending on your age, that woudnt be very accurate.

[Mealticket]

Yeah, your right, right out of soph more year of sports nutrition.

Why you trying to be a dick?
here you go sweetie. I copied this from Musclesci.......a thread i wrote ALMOST 3 YEARS AGO in their cardiovascualr section.
And i wasnt going to respond to your earlier comments but you're completly wrong and misinformed.

Her's the link in case you want to see for yourself

http://www.musclesci.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3305

You ought to be carefull who you insult, especially when they know more then you.

When to eat after cardio and how not to lose muscle while droping weight after cycle

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When to eat after cardio

Lazy or mis-informed people say w/ in an hour.. Why would you starve your body of nutrition one second longer than needed? W/ in 1/2 hour you need to eat a carb/ protein meal w/ a 4/1 ratio of carbs to protein. This is proven to be the most effective ratio to recover with. Preferablly as you're walking out of the gym. If your workout is longer than 90 minutes you need to consume a carb during as well; such as 50/50 mix of gatorade and water.

Chris Carmichael is the authority for endurance and sprint base athletes in the world. Besides coaching Lance to 5 Le Tour De France win's he also coaches the best endurnace and professional athlets in the world. He also coaches top motocross,formula F1, superbike, and bmxers, in the world.

"Athletes who wait more than 1 hour to consume carbohydrates store about 50% less muscle glycogen than those who consume carbohydrates during the one-hour period after exercise. Research shows that athletes increase their glycogen stores to greater levels than before exercise by eating foods high in carbohydrates during this time frame. By eating 1 to 1.5 grams of high glycemic index foods (recovery drink, white rice, honey, carrots) Per kilogram of body weight immediately after exercise and exery two hours for the next four to six hours, you will maximize glycogen stores. Since glycogen is the primary fuel for resistance-training , replenishing your stores as quickely as possible is critical to maintaining quality training day to day."

If you don't capitalize on this time frame it may take up to 48 hours to replinish your depleted glycogen stores to a pro-exercise equivelancy.

"After this initial four hours, muscle-glycogen stores are replenished at a rate of approzametly 5% per hour." So you can see that if you don't capitalize on the window to fuel up after an intese training session, tomorrows workout may be doomed even before it starts

" Research has shown that there is NO difference in recovery between liquid supplements and a "real food" meal."

I use a product called Endurox.I l love this shit. It tastes like liquid ambrosia. Lime flavor. It rocks and is THE BEST recovery drink i've ever tasted. Hope this info helps.



Dropping weight pre, post-cycle

I posted this on 2 other threads for some bro's. It should help you out. Walking isn't going to do **** for you cept' burn 300 calories an hour( if you're lucky). Just follow the below and you won't lose ANY muscle from the cardio


You will burn the most pure fat from your body at a h/r between 65-70% of your maximum.That doesn't mean you have to keep the cardio that low key though. Anything above that and you're pulling from your atp or glucose stores. An average person stores enough glucose for 45 to 65 minutes worth of cardio. After that you'll start to burn more fat and muscle unless you keep your body fueled( w/ a carbo drink or powergel). As long as your cardio sessions don't really go over an hour you're not in danger of burning any muscle. Your atp stores will be depleted but you'll still be fine. The reasoning to keep your h/r below 70% of your max is because anything above this is too fast for your body to metabolize the fat for use as energy. I train about 15 hrs a week on a bike and use a h/r monitor that d/l's to my computer for post workout analysis. ANYWAYS: Just keep your cardio below an hour, expend more calories than you consume and you'll be buring fat, not muscle. Below an hour it doesn't matter if you h/r is 65% or 95% of your max,ALLTHOUGH THE LATTER WILL burn more Kcals, and not muscle. Any more questions please feel free to ask.

I had someone PM me and Question why my thinking about this. Well i got 28 inch wheels( all natural) from biking and continually put on mass while training, So obviously you can do extensive cardio and preserve your muscle. I eat right and any time on the bike over an hour i use a carbo/protein drink for exthended fuel and to preserve my muscle. I don't expect everyone to believe what i'm saying, as everyone has an opinion, but i'm just adding my hard earned 2 cents about cardio.

[Mealticket]

look @ that link i posted Kona, it'll explain everything in depth for you.

[MFT81]

................

[MFT81]

And I was wrong anything above 70% and you do start losing the ability to burn stored fat as a primary fuel source and start to use glycogen.

I appologize for the misinformation.

[Mealticket]

no harm no foul. We're all here to learn, me included

[Mealticket]

For the whole max HR thing...that's about the roughest estimate you can do, but still what the medical community goes by.
For insatnce i'm 20 something and my max h/r is 217bpm, so obviosuly that formula is just a rough estimate and won;t apply to me.
Best way to figure out your percentages is to get an acurate max hr by exercising and do intervals to spike your h/r quickly