First cycle -- want strength not mass

[scm007]

What do you guys recommend?

My initial thought is just to do a straight test cycle and not go on a crazy bulk diet to try and maximize lean muscle buildup.

Basically I am a rock climber trying to get my strength to the next level without adding on unnecessary muscle.

Ideas?

[G4R]

Stats-
Age?
Height?
Weight?
BF%
PCT Knowlege
Training Exp

[c-Z]

As stated post up your stats. We need to know what we are working with before we go throwing any recommendations around.

[Juice Authority]

What do you guys recommend?

My initial thought is just to do a straight test cycle and not go on a crazy bulk diet to try and maximize lean muscle buildup.

Basically I am a rock climber trying to get my strength to the next level without adding on unnecessary muscle.

Ideas?

Test Prop and Tren A.

[c-Z]

Test Prop and Tren A.

You see two of us asking for stats... So your stupid ass offers cycle advice... Good going...... Great job... Great help to the community. Especially when every other guy who wants help needs a diet rather then steroids.

No wonder 99% of people one here get in fights with you.

[Juice Authority]

You see two of us asking for stats... So your stupid ass offers cycle advice... Good going...... Great job... Great help to the community. Especially when every other guy who wants help needs a diet rather then steroids.

No wonder 99% of people one here get in fights with you.

I'm answering a direct question with a direct answer based on my personal experience and the experiences of many others so stuff it. He asked about strength and no mass. Well, it doesn't get much better than Prop and Tren A for that sole purpose.

[lovbyts]

I'm answering a direct question with a direct answer based on my personal experience and the experiences of many others so stuff it. He asked about strength and no mass. Well, it doesn't get much better than Prop and Tren A for that sole purpose.

Yeah that's great advice for any 200lb 14 yr old, right? That is why we always ask for stats. He didnt ask what works for YOU, he asked what we think would work for him and we dont know until we know his stats.

You have been asked several times to NOT just jump in and give advice and I wouldn't doubt you might get banned soon if you dont learn to curve your advice giving routine.

[Juice Authority]

Yeah that's great advice for any 200lb 14 yr old, right? That is why we always ask for stats. He didnt ask what works for YOU, he asked what we think would work for him and we dont know until we know his stats.

You have been asked several times to NOT just jump in and give advice and I wouldn't doubt you might get banned soon if you dont learn to curve your advice giving routine.

I don't give advice, I share my experience. There are enough 'advice givers' around here. Now did I give him cycle advice (dosing, duration, etc.) or did I mention what 2 compounds work for me and many others for that exact purpose (strength and no mass). Do I need to ask him for his stats too when 2 people already did or am I free to discuss what we're here to discuss, AAS? I believe there's a forum for cycling and PCT. Why am I even justifying myself to you???

[Big]

Test Prop and Tren A.

so even if this is a 16 year old girl, that's your advice? we ask stats for a reason...

[G4R]

I don't give advice, I share my experience. There are enough 'advice givers' around here. Now did I give him cycle advice (dosing, duration, etc.) or did I mention what 2 compounds work for me and many others for that exact purpose (strength and no mass). Do I need to ask him for his stats too when 2 people already did or am I free to discuss what we're here to discuss, AAS? I believe there's a forum for cycling and PCT. Why am I even justifying myself to you???

Granted you didnt give dosing or duration advice, but you told him what gear to use. Now, if he wants, all he has to do is look up what others use as dosing. He could have done that without you telling him, but at least we are trying to keep his mind on the correct way of doing things before he even considers what steroids to take.

[lovbyts]

I don't give advice, I share my experience. There are enough 'advice givers' around here. Now did I give him cycle advice (dosing, duration, etc.) or did I mention what 2 compounds work for me and many others for that exact purpose (strength and no mass). Do I need to ask him for his stats too when 2 people already did or am I free to discuss what we're here to discuss, AAS? I believe there's a forum for cycling and PCT. Why am I even justifying myself to you???

Because you are being a MORON and even though it has been pointed out to you several times nicely and sometimes not so nicely you continue to give bad/stupid advice.

[Juice Authority]

so even if this is a 16 year old girl, that's your advice? we ask stats for a reason...

Didn't know this board has 16 year old girls posting on it. I had assumed most are old enough and at least intelligent enough to ask questions without needing a formal inquiry. Maybe not. I guess I just take the fact for granted at my homeboard since we don't seem to have that issue over there, ever. So now that's 3 people asking for stats. I'll make it 4.

OP - what are you stats?

[lovbyts]

Didn't know this board has 16 year old girls posting on it. I had assumed most are old enough and at least intelligent enough to ask questions without needing a formal inquiry. Maybe not. I guess I just take the fact for granted at my homeboard since we don't seem to have that issue over there, ever. So now that's 3 people asking for stats. I'll make it 4.

OP - what are you stats?

Well we just had a 14 year old boy make his first post 1hr ago.

That is why WE ask for STATS BEFORE giving advice.

[Juice Authority]

Well we just had a 14 year old boy make his first post 1hr ago.

That is why WE ask for STATS BEFORE giving advice.

My bad then. Apparently I don't hang here enough to know that. I'll be more mindful of that in the future. Differences aside, I thought we were dealing with a more mature audience here.

[Big]

My bad then. Apparently I don't hang here enough to know that. I'll be more mindful of that in the future. Differences aside, I thought we were dealing with a more mature audience here.

I wish we could advise assuming that we are all mature adults, sadly that's not the case. When I was 14 steroids were the last thing on my mind, times have changed.

[Juice Authority]

I wish we could advise assuming that we are all mature adults, sadly that's not the case. When I was 14 steroids were the last thing on my mind, times have changed.

When I was 14 there wasn't even an Internet and you would think with all the negative attention in the media younger kids would be more discouraged. I guess it goes to show you how useless and counter-productive this government sponsored witchhunt on AAS has become.

[lovbyts]

Another thing to consider is how many of these kids do you think lie about their age after getting banned because they are under 18, find out that the advise is for 25+ so they create another profile saying they are 26+ but it's obvious many times due to their ignorance and their expectations that steroids are NOT a good idea for them even if it's what they want.

Obvious some will slip through the cracks and fake us out but that's why we ask for specifics with past experiences.

OK. lets get back to the OP and see where this goes.

[dec11]

What do you guys recommend?

My initial thought is just to do a straight test cycle and not go on a crazy bulk diet to try and maximize lean muscle buildup.

Basically I am a rock climber trying to get my strength to the next level without adding on unnecessary muscle.

Ideas?

your routinue will have a big part to play, powerlifting routine would be suitable, work the major groups with heavy 5-6 rep range, this will up your strength, although you will gain a bit of size but not as much as in bb. also work hard on flexibility, guessin u will need tht for climbing!!! lol

[gymnerd]

your routinue will have a big part to play, powerlifting routine would be suitable, work the major groups with heavy 5-6 rep range, this will up your strength, although you will gain a bit of size but not as much as in bb. also work hard on flexibility, guessin u will need tht for climbing!!! lol

I agree A good powerlifting routine including some bench press, standing overhead presses, deadlifts, and squats will take you a long way. Also alot of core strength is always helpful. I always had success with plyometrics helping my performance in sports if you dont do them should check them out.

[c-Z]

Damn I missed it..... Next time guys...

[hankdiesel]

I'm answering a direct question with a direct answer based on my personal experience and the experiences of many others so stuff it. He asked about strength and no mass. Well, it doesn't get much better than Prop and Tren A for that sole purpose.

Of coarse. No mass would be gained from that cycle. You are a genius!

[Juice Authority]

Of coarse. No mass would be gained from that cycle. You are a genius!

Not really but keep rolling them eyes you clueless idiot. Size is dictated my caloric intake you moron, not the drugs you pump into your body.

From a pharmacological point of view, if you incorporate an AI for the estrogen build up from the Prop (out of all test compounds Prop's rate of aromatizing into estrogen is fairly mild, which is why most use it in cutting stacks) water retention will be minimal to none. Tren doesn't aromatize into estrogen at all but it does raise prolactin levels so having bromo, prami, or caber on hand is advisable. Furthermore, it has been widely accepted that Tren actually burns fat through rises in IGF and Prostaglandins (I'm sure you don't know what that means so I'll further explain).

"Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue."

Short story long, Tren A + Prop + AI = incredible strength gains with little to no water retention (mass). What do you think the ‘mass’ comes from exactly? It’s called water retention.

IM GETTING REALLY SICK OF WARNING YOU AGAINST THIS. IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEONE THEN REPORT THE POST DONT GO OFF LIKE A IMMATURE LITTLE KID HAVING A TEMPER TANTRUM. IF I SEE YOU REACT LIKE THIS ONE MORE TIME IM GOING TO PUT YOU IN FOR A SUSPENSION

-PT

[JinNtonic]

I dont think a cycle is what you need for rock climbing.

[Juice Authority]

I dont think a cycle is what you need for rock climbing.

Now that I completely agree with. Any outdoor activity (biking, running, rock climbing) are things I do while I'm off-cycle like now. The rest of the summer for me will be focused on cardio endurance (inner fitness), which means more circuit training, cross-fit, MMA, biking, running, yoga, etc.

[Matt]

Not really but keep rolling them eyes you clueless idiot. Size is dictated my caloric intake you moron, not the drugs you pump into your body.

So althoiugh you have had a warning today you continue to flame members, you just cant help your self...

[Juice Authority]

So althoiugh you have had a warning today you continue to flame members, you just cant help your self...

You have become quite the e-starker haven't you? What precipitated my latest commentary? Was I not being flamed and essentially called a moron by hankdiesel for what I threw out there? See, what many of you, yourself included, don’t realize is that I actually know what I’m talking about, and, unlike many of you, can back it up with facts AND personal experience.

[G4R]

Alright guys, we somewhat settled this last night/this morning. We have hijacked this guys thread, and he has yet to respond. It is prob safe to say he is gone (no doubt we scared him off).

Lets just drop this.

[T-MOS]

Not really but keep rolling them eyes you clueless idiot. Size is dictated my caloric intake you moron, not the drugs you pump into your body.

From a pharmacological point of view, if you incorporate an AI for the estrogen build up from the Prop (out of all test compounds Prop's rate of aromatizing into estrogen is fairly mild, which is why most use it in cutting stacks) water retention will be minimal to none. Tren doesn't aromatize into estrogen at all but it does raise prolactin levels so having bromo, prami, or caber on hand is advisable. Furthermore, it has been widely accepted that Tren actually burns fat through rises in IGF and Prostaglandins (I'm sure you don't know what that means so I'll further explain).

"Prostaglandins are made by two different pathways(Cyclooxygenase and Lipoxygenase), and considering prostaglandins are a group of about 20 lipid cells, they have contrary function; responsible for stimulating as well as alleviating inflammation(Inflammation stimulation is the rapid metabolism of them expelled through the bronchials), regulate blood flow to particular organs, control ion transport across membranes, modulate synaptic transmission, induce sleep, mediate lipid release, and regulate metabolism is various tissue."

Short story long, Tren A + Prop + AI = incredible strength gains with little to no water retention (mass). What do you think the ‘mass’ comes from exactly? It’s called water retention.

You have become quite the e-starker haven't you? What precipitated my latest commentary? Was I not being flamed and essentially called a moron by hankdiesel for what I threw out there? See, what many of you, yourself included, don’t realize is that I actually know what I’m talking about, and, unlike many of you, can back it up with facts AND personal experience.

Hmmmm You weren't ESSENTIALLY called anything !!! That is the way YOU took his comment, HOWEVER you come straight out and call him an IDIOT and a MORON

There is NO question that is Flaming , and in the lounge is one thing, but in someone's Q & A thread is NOT ALLOWED

Consider this a warning !! Now please play nice and watch how you react

[c-Z]

Can't we all just play nicely. And ask for stats before recommending anything?

It's not hard. And shows we care about our members.

[Juice Authority]

Hmmmm You weren't ESSENTIALLY called anything !!! That is the way YOU took his comment, HOWEVER you come straight out and call him an IDIOT and a MORON

There is NO question that is Flaming , and in the lounge is one thing, but in someone's Q & A thread is NOT ALLOWED

Consider this a warning !! Now please play nice and watch how you react

Was this mean to be a compliment? Not only that but he challenged what I said and I simply pointed out where he was wrong with a few colorful adjectives. I abhor ignorant, misinformed statements. That is more harmful to the community than anything else, imo. If you guys don't want me here (the staff and the admin) then just say so. You don't even need to warn or ban me. Just say the word and I'll be gone on my own if that is the staff's preference.

You are a genius!

[T-MOS]

Was this mean to be a compliment? Not only that but he challenged what I said and I simply pointed out where he was wrong with a few colorful adjectives. I abhor ignorant, misinformed statements. That is more harmful to the community than anything else, imo. If you guys don't want me here (the staff and the admin) then just say so. You don't even need to warn or ban me. Just say the word and I'll be gone on my own if that is the staff's preference.

considering the advice you give, MY preference would be for you to stop, or LEAVE...but I will leave it up to ADMIN to suspend or ban you.....

calling you a genius and being sarcastic about it is a LAME excuse for YOU to flame someone and if you are THAT unstable and have to attack someone on the internet,then sorry, but YOU are the problem.....you may want to step back and calm down before you respond

and giving steroid advice when you have NO CLUE who you are giving it too is VERY RECKLESS and I wish you would stop !!

[Juice Authority]

considering the advice you give, MY preference would be for you to stop, or LEAVE...but I will leave it up to ADMIN to suspend or ban you.....

calling you a genius and being sarcastic about it is a LAME excuse for YOU to flame someone and if you are THAT unstable and have to attack someone on the internet,then sorry, but YOU are the problem.....you may want to step back and calm down before you respond

and giving steroid advice when you have NO CLUE who you are giving it too is VERY RECKLESS and I wish you would stop !!

You must have missed this point on this very thread. First off, I didn't recommend any cycles. I mentioned 2 compounds that work for the OPs stated goals. Secondly, I didn't realize that there were young kids posting on this board. I honestly assumed, incorrectly, that we were dealing with a more informed, mature audience. I have since learned different.

My bad then. Apparently I don't hang here enough to know that. I'll be more mindful of that in the future. Differences aside, I thought we were dealing with a more mature audience here.

[c-Z]

I was an Administrator on a Gaming Realm. Don't you guys have infractions here? XXX amount of infractions=temporary ban. Or Permanent ban? Something where BS like this you just hand out an infraction with a well reason.

Actually another board I belonged to did this... I got banned because I had that same attitude. LOL i got like 3 or 4 infractions in a day for flaming someone in a Lounge. ROFL.

Infractions definitely are the way to go. As well as for rule breakers. A simple warning with no points. If source fishing continues. Then a 5 point infraction. And if you get 20 infractions in a certain length of time. Good Bye.

IDK my .02cents.

[T-MOS]

You must have missed this point on this very thread. First off, I didn't recommend any cycles. I mentioned 2 compounds that work for the OPs stated goals. Secondly, I didn't realize that there were young kids posting on this board. I honestly assumed, incorrectly, that we were dealing with a more informed, mature audience. I have since learned different.

Test Prop and Tren A.

Nope, didn't miss the point. IF you had gotten the point, YOU would have edited you cycle advice

Which you didn't !!

[Juice Authority]

calling you a genius and being sarcastic about it is a LAME excuse for YOU to flame someone and if you are THAT unstable and have to attack someone on the internet,then sorry, but YOU are the problem.....you may want to step back and calm down before you respond

While we're on the topic of flaming, what warnings are going to be given to WarMachine and Mad Matt for calling my wife a hooker and saying she gives BJs for money??? I guess that behavior is acceptable here, right?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=395109&page=2

[c-Z]

JA. mature audience? it would be hell of nice if we can just spit advice.... But I think 1 out of 5 people looking for advice here either need to:

-Get a better diet because they are underweight
-Stop eating mc d's cheese burgers because they are extremely over weight
-Or gain a couple more years on life because they are too young.

Yes it would be nice. And I agree with you man. But this isn't the way it is here. This community has several young ones as well. I believe you can be 18 to sign up... Well 18 year old looking for steroid advice we all know he has plenty of room for natural growth. So I'de much rather try to get a persons stats. And see what I am working with.

And yes people do lie. And can lie. But at least you would be taking the extra step to ensure our members stay healthy and do the right thing.

[hankdiesel]

WOW, look at what I started........woops. A lot of mass can be achieved by a prop/ten cycle. I know from personal experience. Of coarse diet plays a major role. What is usually not recomended but would work for the op if his stats checked out would be a var only cycle. Moderate strength gains without a whole lot of size. I have a feeling if we ever get to see his stats, more than likely a better diet and training program would be recomended.

[Juice Authority]

JA. mature audience? it would be hell of nice if we can just spit advice.... But I think 1 out of 5 people looking for advice here either need to:

-Get a better diet because they are underweight
-Stop eating mc d's cheese burgers because they are extremely over weight
-Or gain a couple more years on life because they are too young.

Yes it would be nice. And I agree with you man. But this isn't the way it is here. This community has several young ones as well. I believe you can be 18 to sign up... Well 18 year old looking for steroid advice we all know he has plenty of room for natural growth. So I'de much rather try to get a persons stats. And see what I am working with.

And yes people do lie. And can lie. But at least you would be taking the extra step to ensure our members stay healthy and do the right thing.

I have learned that to be the case. Years ago, before this very board become 'mainstream', only vets and old timers posted here. This predates the existence of most of the current Mods here now. That is how I remembered this board but obviously things have changed. Also, kudos to the Admin for creating such a successful, highly visited site. I'm sure he is rolling in dough and good for him!

[Juice Authority]

WOW, look at what I started........woops. A lot of mass can be achieved by a prop/ten cycle. I know from personal experience. Of coarse diet plays a major role. What is usually not recomended but would work for the op if his stats checked out would be a var only cycle. Moderate strength gains without a whole lot of size. I have a feeling if we ever get to see his stats, more than likely a better diet and training program would be recomended.

A Var only cycle will do more harm than good. The suppressive effect is has on natty test is well documented. Running Var without test will yield very little and actually result in negative gains growth post-cycle:

Var is more suppressive the HPTA than any other 17aa. Running Var without test will significantly suppress your natty test.

Here's what Var did to natty test levels after just 5 days at 15mgs/ed. dbol by comparison creates an initial spike in natty test levels and I have the bloodwork to prove it.






http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/con...adbaeac590bbaf

For example, total serum OX, as measured in the morning 10 h after oral ingestion, was consistent on days 3 and 5, whereas total serum and free T concentrations declined significantly from days 0 and 3 to day 5. Viewed in combination, total serum androgen levels with OX treatment were far below those obtained with TE. Although the total androgen exposure to the skeletal muscle with OX may have been considerably less than that we found previously with TE, an increase in protein synthesis was nonetheless observed. This suggests that OX may exert a greater anabolic influence on skeletal muscle than TE, thereby overcoming the decrease in the T concentration.

[hankdiesel]

Big is the real "juice authority" around here and he has stated that it would be the only thing besides test that could be ran solo. Do you have experience running var solo or with the prop/tren cycle referred to earlier?