Toremifene citrate and other new pct drugs!!!!

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

Does anyone know good Fareston (Toremifene citrate) is?

I am thinking of using it as part of vmy PCT regime when I start a cycle at the beginning of next year but I havce read mixed views on this product!

Is it 4x better than Nolva?

Does it inhibit prolactin production?

Does it stop Negative Feedback Inhibition?

Is it true that it increases SHBG production?

What are its side efffects?

Is it true that it is not liver toxic?

Does it help with cholesterol levels?

How good is it as stopping gyno, water retention and acne?

Does anyone know about Evista (raloxifene hydrochloride)?

What about cyclofenil?

[oscarjones]

Ask Swifto

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

Ask Swifto

Thanx bro!

Do I send him an IM or post a message on his PCT section?

[johnnyrv]

Post it in the pct section

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

okay!

thanx!

[Swifto]

Does anyone know good Fareston (Toremifene citrate) is?

I am thinking of using it as part of vmy PCT regime when I start a cycle at the beginning of next year but I havce read mixed views on this product!

Is it 4x better than Nolva? No clinical data supports thats claim.

Does it inhibit prolactin production? No, its a SERM and selectivly binds to the estrogen receptor.
Does it stop Negative Feedback Inhibition? Some SERMs, Clomid for example, have helped prevent negative feedback when using androgens. Clomid maintained endogenous T on very low doses of Test Prop for a short peroid. I dont know if Tore has that ability.
Is it true that it increases SHBG production? I dont see how it can reduce SHBG.
What are its side efffects? Little to none. Its a 2nd Generations SERM. It is far less genotixic and occular toxic than its brothers Clomid/Tamox.

Is it true that it is not liver toxic? All SERMs are liver toxic. But as above, I'd hazard a guess and says its less toxic than Clomid/Tamox. My liver values went up a fair bit on Tamox during PCT.

Does it help with cholesterol levels? Yes. It will help with lipids and imporve bone mineral density. Toremifene is the best SERM at imporving lipids, as stated in this study.

How good is it as stopping gyno, water retention and acne? Tore doesnt have the highest binding affinity in breast tissue, Rolax does. So use that to fight gyno, or Tamoxifen. For acne and water retention, use an AI.

Does anyone know about Evista (raloxifene hydrochloride)? Rolax is best use to fight gyno. Studies state its more effective than Tamoxifen in pubescent gyno. Its a poor choice to recover the HPTA though.
What about cyclofenil?

bolds

[Swifto]

Drug Saf. 2001;24(14):1039-53.

Comparative tolerability of first-generation selective estrogen receptor modulators in breast cancer treatment and prevention.
Curtis MG.

Department of Obstetrics/Gynecology, University of Texas at Houston, Houston, Texas 77026, USA. [email protected]

In general, the selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) currently indicated for the treatment and prevention of breast cancer, i.e. tamoxifen and toremifene, are fairly well tolerated. However, tamoxifen has been shown to induce hepatocellular carcinomas in rats, but not in humans, and can increase the risk of endometrial cancer in humans by two to three times. Other potentially serious adverse effects which have been associated with tamoxifen and toremifene therapy include vasomotor symptoms, an increased risk of venous thromboembolic events, and an increased incidence of cataracts and ocular toxicity, fatty liver, and nonmalignant hepatic and uterine changes. In addition, long term tamoxifen use almost always results in resistance to the drug and, indeed, has actually been shown to promote tumour proliferation in human breast cancer cells. Both tamoxifen and toremifene display drug interactions with a variety of drug classes. The adverse events associated with these compounds have raised significant concerns regarding their widespread use for the treatment and prevention of breast cancer. In addition, because of the weakness and scarcity of the data on toremifene, any conclusions about its tolerability remain tentative until outcomes of ongoing clinical trials in the adjuvant setting are known. A third SERM, raloxifene, is the focus of several large randomised trials examining its efficacy in the prevention of breast cancer. At present, each potential adverse event needs to be weighed against potential benefits in the decision to undergo SERM treatment. An array of therapies is currently available for patients with breast cancer and women at increased risk of disease; the risk-to-benefit ratio for each agent should be carefully examined in determining the most advantageous regimen.

PMID: 11735660 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


If given the coice, 2nd Gen SERMs should be used. This study was done in 2001 and since then, Toremifene has been shown to be safer than Tamox.

[Swifto]

Toremifene on lipid profiles:



J Clin Oncol. 2008 Apr 10;26(11):1824-9.

Toremifene improves lipid profiles in men receiving androgen-deprivation therapy for prostate cancer: interim analysis of a multicenter phase III study.
Smith MR, Malkowicz SB, Chu F, Forrest J, Sieber P, Barnette KG, Rodriquez D, Steiner MS.

Massachusetts General Hospital Cancer Center, Yawkey 7038, 55 Fruit St, Boston, MA 02114, USA. [email protected]

Comment in:

Eur Urol. 2008 Nov;54(5):1202-3.

PURPOSE: Androgen-deprivation therapy (ADT) is associated with greater risk of incident coronary heart disease and hospital admission for myocardial infarction; treatment-related increases in serum lipids may contribute to greater cardiovascular disease risk. We evaluated the effects of toremifene, a selective estrogen-receptor modulator, on fasting serum lipid levels in men receiving ADT for prostate cancer. PATIENTS AND METHODS: In an ongoing, multicenter, double-blind, placebo-controlled phase III fracture-prevention study, 1,389 men receiving ADT for prostate cancer were randomly assigned to receive toremifene (80 mg/d) or placebo. In this interim analysis of 188 patients, changes in fasting serum lipids from baseline to month 12 were compared between the placebo and toremifene groups. RESULTS: Changes in serum lipids differed significantly between the groups. Mean (+/- SE) total cholesterol decreased by 1.0% +/- 1.7% from baseline to month 12 in the placebo group and decreased by 8.1% +/- 1.4% in the toremifene group (P = .001 for between group comparison). Low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol increased by 0.8% +/- 2.5% in the placebo group and decreased by 8.2% +/- 2.5% in the toremifene group (P = .003). In contrast, high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol decreased by 4.9% +/- 1.2% in the placebo group and increased by 0.5% +/- 2.2% in the toremifene group (P = .018). Triglycerides increased by 6.9% +/- 4.2% in the placebo group and decreased by 13.2% +/- 3.6% in the toremifene group (P = .003). CONCLUSION: Toremifene significantly decreased total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglycerides, and increased HDL cholesterol in men receiving ADT for prostate cancer.
PMID: 18398147 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Swifto]

Toremifene on bone mineral density:



J Urol. 2008 Jan;179(1):152-5. Epub 2007 Nov 14.

Toremifene increases bone mineral density in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer: interim analysis of a multicenter phase 3 clinical study.

Smith MR, Malkowicz SB, Chu F, Forrest J, Price D, Sieber P, Barnette KG, Rodriguez D, Steiner MS.

Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, Massachusetts 02114, USA. [email protected]

PURPOSE: We evaluated the effects of toremifene on bone mineral density, a surrogate for fracture risk, in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer. MATERIALS AND METHODS: In an ongoing, multicenter, phase 3 fracture prevention study 1,392 men 50 years or older with prostate cancer receiving androgen deprivation therapy were randomized to 80 mg toremifene per day or placebo. Bone mineral density of the lumbar spine, total hip and femoral neck was assessed using dual energy x-ray absorptiometry. In this planned interim analysis of the first 197 subjects we compared bone mineral density changes from baseline to month 12 between the placebo and toremifene groups. RESULTS: Compared with the placebo group men in the toremifene group had significant increases in bone mineral density at each evaluated skeletal site. Lumbar spine bone mineral density decreased 0.7% in the placebo group and increased 1.6% in the toremifene group (between group comparison p <0.001). Total hip bone mineral density decreased 1.3% in the placebo group and increased 0.7% in the toremifene group (p = 0.001). Femoral neck bone mineral density decreased 1.3% in the placebo group and increased 0.2% in the toremifene group (p = 0.009). Between group differences in the change in bone mineral density from baseline to month 12 were 2.3%, 2.0% and 1.5% for the lumbar spine, total hip and femoral neck, respectively. CONCLUSIONS: Toremifene significantly increased hip and spine bone mineral density in men receiving androgen deprivation therapy for prostate cancer. The effect of toremifene on the fracture risk is being assessed in the ongoing randomized, controlled trial.
PMID: 18001802 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[Swifto]

Toremifene, it seems, will also be a valuable tool for fighting prostate cancer in males. As is Tamoxifen.

Estrogen is VERY important when causing prostate problems in males, so it DHT. A SERM that increase expression of ERbeta and reduces ERalpha is prefered at fighting tumor growth. Tamoxifen does this and Toremifene may also exert this effect on the ER.

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

bolds

Thanx Swifto!

You are the don when it comes to PCT!

I read on the steroid.com profile of Fareston that it KILLS gyno an stops the formation on gyno cells!

The profile and one on another forum said it does reduce prolactin!

I think tore is less liver toxixc than clomid and nolva!

Do you think Epistane is a good AI?

[Researcher]

God damn man, that is one comprehensive response. Thankyou.

[MuscleScience]

Swifto strikes again, good post/s

[Swifto]

Thanx Swifto!

You are the don when it comes to PCT!

I read on the steroid.com profile of Fareston that it KILLS gyno an stops the formation on gyno cells!

The profile and one on another forum said it does reduce prolactin!

I think tore is less liver toxixc than clomid and nolva!

Do you think Epistane is a good AI?

Tore doesnt have a very high binding affinity for the ER in breast tissue, its better used for HPTA restoration. Rolaxifene is the most effective at fighting gyno, then Tamoxifen.

HPTA restoration:

Clomid/Tore
Tore/Clomid
Tamox
Rolax

Gyno:

Rolax
Tamoxifen
Clomid
Tore

I dont see how Tore reduces PRL at all. Its a SERM and SERMs dont lower PRL. Their agonists/antagonist in selected tissues.

[marcus300]

Swifto the researcher to the rescue good info

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

Tore doesnt have a very high binding affinity for the ER in breast tissue, its better used for HPTA restoration. Rolaxifene is the most effective at fighting gyno, then Tamoxifen.

HPTA restoration:

Clomid/Tore
Tore/Clomid
Tamox
Rolax

Gyno:

Rolax
Tamoxifen
Clomid
Tore

I dont see how Tore reduces PRL at all. Its a SERM and SERMs dont lower PRL. Their agonists/antagonist in selected tissues.

This is what steroid.com profile says:

Some scientists at a party were bored one day, so they hooked up some time-lapse video to breast cancer cell cultures treated with toremifene (the chemical in Fareston). Ok, the part about them being bored one day is made up, but they really did hook up time-lapse photography to breast cancer cell cultures treated with Fareston. Anyway, they observed this for 3 days, and it caused approximately 60% of the cells to exhibit morphologic characteristics typical of cells undergoing apoptosis or programmed death. The significance of this to you and me is that this is roughly the same thing that would happen to your gyno if you were taking Fareston. Anyway, the number of mitoses gradually decreased to zero over only a 3- to 4-day period. So this stuff causes growth inhibition of estrogen-sensitive breast cancer cells by inducing some cells to die and by inhibiting other cells from entering mitosis (i.e. from replicating) (1). This stuff will KILL your gyno, from everything I've read (which also means that I've had to read into everything I’ve read, if you kinda follow me). Now where was I? Oh yeah…kill, that's right. This is certainly good news for someone who wants to get rid of gyno, but since it also prevents the cells from replicating, it will stop gyno from progressing as well as kill existing gyno.

Also of note is that it will reduce prolactin (2), and as you probably guessed, this may raise your Testosterone levels, since prolactin can not only cause lactation, but it also has an inhibitory effect on your Test levels. The unfortunate part about this potentially exciting new compound is that it will also raise sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), which will in turn lower circulating levels of testosterone in your body (3).

I agree with you about prolactin?

How does it do it?

[Swifto]

Thats interesting, I havent seen those studies.

But to be honest, there both on women (our hormonal profiles are slightly different! lol) and on cancer patients. The article is right, but I doubt it is applicable to males.

I have read that Tamox can increase SHBG though.

If you have problems with elevated PRL (rare) use dopamine antagonists like Caber and Prami. They work by changing the DOP:PRL ratio. A bit like AI's increasing T, by lowering E.

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

Thats interesting, I havent seen those studies.

But to be honest, there both on women (our hormonal profiles are slightly different! lol) and on cancer patients. The article is right, but I doubt it is applicable to males.

I have read that Tamox can increase SHBG though.

If you have problems with elevated PRL (rare) use dopamine antagonists like Caber and Prami. They work by changing the DOP:PRL ratio. A bit like AI's increasing T, by lowering E.

I agree with u m8!

I know bout anti-prolactin drugs!

Does Agnus Castus and vit B6 do the same thing as Caber, Prami and Bromo?

How rare is elevated PRL if u r on Deca or Tren?

What do you know about Diindolylmethane (DIM) and Resveratrol?

[Swifto]

I agree with u m8!

I know bout anti-prolactin drugs!

Does Agnus Castus and vit B6 do the same thing as Caber, Prami and Bromo?

How rare is elevated PRL if u r on Deca or Tren?

What do you know about Diindolylmethane (DIM) and Resveratrol?

Vitex calims to lower PRL, yes. I think it may marginally, but not like the claims of the supp. companies.

VitB6 will lower both PRL and PgR, but its also reduces AR gene-transcription and may make your cycle less effective. High doses (100mg/ED+) can also damage the CNS.

This subject of raising PRL on androgens is VERY debateble. AS that dont aromotase wont raise PRL, thats pretty much been confirmed. In some 19-Nors will elevate PRL, but not in others. I have seen BW of someone on Deca only upto 1000mg/wk with NO increase in PRL. But then I have a doctor that claims androgens can increase PRL. I dont really know, but I'd keep Caber/Prami on hand just in case. If you control estrogen, you should be ok IMHO, unless your one of the unlucky ones.

Lactation isnt just from elevated PRL. It can be from having an unbalanced androgen:estrogen ratio and/or low testosterone.

There is NO clinical data confirming ANY androgen will increase PRL in healthy eugondal males on AS. If there is, I'm yet to see it.

Some of the greatest minds our community have ever seen (Nandi - Karl Hoffman) is of the stance PRL will NOT be increased. BigCat is also of this opinoin and he's one of the brightest minds we currently have.

Resveratrol is a SERM.

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

Vitex calims to lower PRL, yes. I think it may marginally, but not like the claims of the supp. companies.

VitB6 will lower both PRL and PgR, but its also reduces AR gene-transcription and may make your cycle less effective. High doses (100mg/ED+) can also damage the CNS.

This subject of raising PRL on androgens is VERY debateble. AS that dont aromotase wont raise PRL, thats pretty much been confirmed. In some 19-Nors will elevate PRL, but not in others. I have seen BW of someone on Deca only upto 1000mg/wk with NO increase in PRL. But then I have a doctor that claims androgens can increase PRL. I dont really know, but I'd keep Caber/Prami on hand just in case. If you control estrogen, you should be ok IMHO, unless your one of the unlucky ones.

Lactation isnt just from elevated PRL. It can be from having an unbalanced androgen:estrogen ratio and/or low testosterone.

There is NO clinical data confirming ANY androgen will increase PRL in healthy eugondal males on AS. If there is, I'm yet to see it.

Some of the greatest minds our community have ever seen (Nandi - Karl Hoffman) is of the stance PRL will NOT be increased. BigCat is also of this opinoin and he's one of the brightest minds we currently have.

Resveratrol is a SERM.

Thanx Swifto!

That info really helped!

What is pramis full name?

What are its sides?

How good a SERM is Resveratrol?

Is it much weeker than Clonid, Nolva, Tore and Ralox?

I was going to use it as part of my PCT!