Is it possible to have a diet that cuts and builds.

[jdmullins002]

Im getting ready to start a cycle of test and equipoise and just wanted to know if there was a diet that would help me gain big time and cut for my abs?

[baseline_9]

Simple answer is No, unless you have the genetics of dorian yates and are using a shit load of gear maybe.

why u using EQ, asuming this is ur first cycle

[Trippensee]

I've heard and read otherwise (of what baseline said), but until I find it I'll stand undecided

[jjfman]

Of course you can build whilst cutting EAT CLEAN I'm currently on a low carb diet I keep my carbs low and only get them from wholegrain sources, stay away from saturated fats and all other bad fats And sugar and most importantly keep protein wayyyyyyy high, protein is the builder for muslces not carbs remember that.

On a low carb people usually need another energy source I've just bought gaspari nutritin superpump 250 but don't know whether you should use that on cycle some one on here will have a good suggestion to give you an energy boost though.

Good luck mate

[baseline_9]

I disagree with both of these guys, just my opinion tho.

To gain weight cals in must be more than cals out
To loose weight cals in must be less than cals out


Im not saying that Beginers and advances steroid/GH users wont gain weight while not in calorific surpls.

Lets see what the Vets say

[baseline_9]

Of course you can build whilst cutting EAT CLEAN I'm currently on a low carb diet I keep my carbs low and only get them from wholegrain sources, stay away from saturated fats and all other bad fats And sugar and most importantly keep protein wayyyyyyy high, protein is the builder for muslces not carbs remember that.

On a low carb people usually need another energy source I've just bought gaspari nutritin superpump 250 but don't know whether you should use that on cycle some one on here will have a good suggestion to give you an energy boost though.

Good luck mate

Surplus calories are the builder of muscle and added weight, protein is only a building block.

Not saying Protein is not important, just saying surplus calories are more important

[Frank1]

I disagree with both of these guys, just my opinion tho.

To gain weight cals in must be more than cals out
To loose weight cals in must be less than cals out


Im not saying that Beginers and advances steroid/GH users wont gain weight while not in calorific surpls.

Lets see what the Vets say

I agree...To gain, you need a surplus of calories. To cut, you need a deficite of calories. Its kind of a fine line. It also depends on where your BF level is at when you start. If your BF is at a high level, lets say 20%, then yes it would be possible to make some gains, and burn some fat. However, if your BF is very low, like less than 10%, then chances are your not going to lean out any more if your calories are high.

[Ferdinand]

I agree...To gain, you need a surplus of calories. To cut, you need a deficite of calories. Its kind of a fine line. It also depends on where your BF level is at when you start. If your BF is at a high level, lets say 20%, then yes it would be possible to make some gains, and burn some fat. However, if your BF is very low, like less than 10%, then chances are your not going to lean out any more if your calories are high.

Totally agree!

[FireGuy]

It is absolutely possible to gain lean and lose fat over a peroid of 2-3 months. I have several documented cases of people doing it and can provide pics and body comp numbers to prove it.

[Teufel_Hunden]

I've been doing it for the past 2 months. My weight has stayed within 5 lbs, but I've lost 3 inches off of my waist, and my strength continues to climb. Of course I cycled a ph during this time.

[FireGuy]

I dont have time this morning but I will post some pics and body comp numbers later to support my statement.

[gbrice75]

It is absolutely possible to gain lean and lose fat over a peroid of 2-3 months. I have several documented cases of people doing it and can provide pics and body comp numbers to prove it.

Coming from you i'd take your word for it! Instead of pics and body comp numbers, can you provide examples of their diets and training regimes?

[jjfman]

Surplus calories are the builder of muscle and added weight, protein is only a building block.

Not saying Protein is not important, just saying surplus calories are more important

So what do you guys think people do when they wana cut just get skinny??

Gains on low calorie highhhh protein is possible whilst cutting i didit early last year. As body fat came off my lifts continued to increase

diet and cardio are the keys

[mg1228]

the idea is to eat clean at just above tdee--maybe 200 cals--and use cardio to cut fat

it prob more possible with ur cycle

im sure its a slow process---but imo its better than adding a bunch of fat and the having to cut it off afterwards

[goose]

Your spot on...

Simple answer is No, unless you have the genetics of dorian yates and are using a shit load of gear maybe.

why u using EQ, asuming this is ur first cycle

[jjfman]

the idea is to eat clean at just above tdee--maybe 200 cals--and use cardio to cut fat

it prob more possible with ur cycle

im sure its a slow process---but imo its better than adding a bunch of fat and the having to cut it off afterwards

completely agree

[elpropiotorvic]

Agree ^^

[edgarr]

I have been at or around the same weight for 3-4 weeks but have lost 2% BF. i agree that it is easier when starting with a higher BF.

[jdmullins002]

JJFMAN----Do you know any good sites that have good diet info?

Baseline 9---this will be my second cycle but my first wasnt nothing. What do you think i should run if it were u? I can switch it with primobolan or winnie i just thought the eq would help define and build a little. Yes im new to this and i do need help. Ill listen to any advice anyone can give me.

Ht: 6'1
Lbs: 190
age: 24
Frame: Skinny
bf%: Havent checked in a while.
Exp: 7 years.

[showtimee]

That's pretty much what I'm trying to do, I shall be keeping a close eye on this post :P

[Damienm05]

I saw gradual strength gains while cutting way below TDEE this summer. I didn't gain noticeable size but all lifts went up while my body fat dropped significantly. This may be attributed to the fact that I'd just gotten back in the gym after a shoulder injury kept me out for a while, so my body may have been super-compensating. However, I currently have a protege who is making incredible gains at a caloric deficit. Granted, he is above 20% body fat and new to a proper training regiment. I am yet to see proof that someone at a low bf%, with a lot of lean muscle already can achieve this.

[FireGuy]

In my experience a recomp works best for men in the 10-14% BF range. If you are already in single digits you are going to have an extremely hard time adding muscle while still getting leaner. BF% above 15% you can cut the fat easily but it is tough to register a gain in lean mass due to the drop in water weight. I am not talking about adding 20lbs of lean and losing 20lbs of fat. I am saying a very moderate amount of each. The Mrs started her contest diet 8 weeks ago and has gained a bit over 4lbs of lean while losing right around 4lbs of fat. I have this documented with weekly bodycomps and will post some pics later that are pretty undeniable as to this. Keep in mind to she was already in good shape and coming off a show about 5 months ago. I increased her calories fairly significantly and upped her cardio from 45 min a day 6x a week to 90 min a day 7x a week. There is not a single wasted calorie in her diet and everything she eats is in an exact amount (weighed) and at an exact time.

[Damienm05]

In my experience a recomp works best for men in the 10-14% BF range. If you are already in single digits you are going to have an extremely hard time adding muscle while still getting leaner. BF% above 15% you can cut the fat easily but it is tough to register a gain in lean mass due to the drop in water weight. I am not talking about adding 20lbs of lean and losing 20lbs of fat. I am saying a very moderate amount of each. The Mrs started her contest diet 8 weeks ago and has gained a bit over 4lbs of lean while losing right around 4lbs of fat. I have this documented with weekly bodycomps and will post some pics later that are pretty undeniable as to this. Keep in mind to she was already in good shape and coming off a show about 5 months ago. I increased her calories fairly significantly and upped her cardio from 45 min a day 6x a week to 90 min a day 7x a week. There is not a single wasted calorie in her diet and everything she eats is in an exact amount (weighed) and at an exact time.

Off-topic but it must be fantastic to share your lifestyle with a significant other who's equally dedicated. The girls I date think I'm crazy and there's no use in arguing, I just ask if they'd rather I look like an Average Joe and that usually ends the conversation expediently. Still, I am envious!

[6ft5]

It is absolutely possible to gain lean and lose fat over a peroid of 2-3 months. I have several documented cases of people doing it and can provide pics and body comp numbers to prove it.

I totaly agree.. this has been my quest for years. And now I have a few peeps around here in the same mind set. Altho I am not a guru like FG1 or a few others...IMO for startes the fat u have on your body can be burnt for fuel on a calorie deficiant diet, hence adding lean mass and loss of bf.

[FireGuy]

Pic one taken 7 weeks ago, 136lbs, 113lbs lean/23lbs fat, Pic two taken tonight, 137lbs, 118lbs lean/19lbs fat.

[FireGuy]

I found this from 2008. 1st pic 205lbs 172lean/33fat, 24 weeks later 190lbs 178lean/12fat.

[mg1228]

thanks for the pics--i know ur a busy man but can u tell us where u got your wifes cals in relation to tdee and her cardio schedule for those 7 weeks---also whats the macro breakdown

we would also like to know those same things about ur diet in those 24 weeks

[FireGuy]

Sure, I have spreadsheets for all of them so it's pretty easy to pull up. I started the wife out and bumped her calories up to almost 2000 while upping her cardio. Basically 200 grams protein around 150 carbs and right around 50-60 grams of fat. Kept her there for a few weeks and then started tapering off carbs and now down to 25 per day 6 days per week with 150 on sunday. Fats are still 60 grams now so she is right around 1400 calories most days.

My diet was between 2800-3000 calories the whole time. My protein stayed between 300-350 per day and the carbs were at 250-300 right up until 4 weeks out then I carb cycled 50-50-50-250. (Funny how some people still insists carbs and cutting dont go together) Fat was usually right around 50g per day and cardio started out at 60 minutes 7 days per week and went to 2 hours a day the last 3 weeks. Oh, and no clen, t3 or eca was used on this diet whatsoever.

[mg1228]

Sure, I have spreadsheets for all of them so it's pretty easy to pull up. I started the wife out and bumped her calories up to almost 2000 while upping her cardio. Basically 200 grams protein around 150 carbs and right around 50-60 grams of fat. Kept her there for a few weeks and then started tapering off carbs and now down to 25 per day 6 days per week with 150 on sunday. Fats are still 60 grams now so she is right around 1400 calories most days.what would u say her tdee is--so when u cut carbs u left the fats alone and let the cals come down?

My diet was between 2800-3000 calories the whole time. My protein stayed between 300-350 per day and the carbs were at 250-300 right up until 4 weeks out then I carb cycled 50-50-50-250. (Funny how some people still insists carbs and cutting dont go together) Fat was usually right around 50g per day and cardio started out at 60 minutes 7 days per week and went to 2 hours a day the last 3 weeks. Oh, and no clen, t3 or eca was used on this diet whatsoever.

got to ask ur tdee aswell at that time? so when u started cycling the carbs---u raised fat to stay within 2800-3000 cals--and so i dont have to screw up the math, how much % of bf did u lose in that 4 week period of carb cycling and could u have stayed at that bf% if u wanted by slowly increasing the carbs back to a 40/40/20 spli like u basically started with? thanks

........

[FireGuy]

The carb cycling took me down from mid 8's to low 6's for the three weeks. I did increase the fat intake on the low carb days but not enough to make up for all the carbs. The carb cycling was as much for water reduction as fat loss just to bring in a harder look. As far as TDEE, dont know, I have never figured it on me or anyone I have ever worked with. I usually start with a body comp and come up with an educated guess on where to start calories. If I am off a bit I will know soon and the diet gets adjusted weekly anyways.

I am sure I could have maintained that BF% (8ish) W/carbs @ 250 had I kept my cardio high and diet on task but that's a bit too much work for my taste.

[mg1228]

thanks---tryin to learn

[baseline_9]

JJFMAN----Do you know any good sites that have good diet info?

Baseline 9---this will be my second cycle but my first wasnt nothing. What do you think i should run if it were u? I can switch it with primobolan or winnie i just thought the eq would help define and build a little. Yes im new to this and i do need help. Ill listen to any advice anyone can give me.

Ht: 6'1
Lbs: 190
age: 24
Frame: Skinny
bf%: Havent checked in a while.
Exp: 7 years.

run test only, recearch proper PCT

[jjfman]

JJFMAN----Do you know any good sites that have good diet info?

Baseline 9---this will be my second cycle but my first wasnt nothing. What do you think i should run if it were u? I can switch it with primobolan or winnie i just thought the eq would help define and build a little. Yes im new to this and i do need help. Ill listen to any advice anyone can give me.

Ht: 6'1
Lbs: 190
age: 24
Frame: Skinny
bf%: Havent checked in a while.
Exp: 7 years.

I don't know of any sites with good diet info I got my knowledge from studying nutrition at college and I spent alot of time playing reserves rugby league for a professional team and many long conversations with a qualified sports nutritionalist. But I don't suppose there would be any harm in say searching for 'low carb bulking diet' or something like that on google or even searching the threads on this site but pllllleaaaase don't just copy someone elses diet you need to find something that works for your bodys needs eg calorie intake vs calorie expenditure otherwise it will just not work. Good luck mate

[NVR2BIG1]

YES< IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. You walk such a fine line though that for most its easier to bulk and get fatter or cut and get smaller. But yes its possible and I'm going to tell you why. 1 lb of fat has 3500 stored calories in it. Now we know fat cells cannot convert to muscle cells, but the muscles can use the surplus calories from the stored fat to grow. But once you get in the single digits bf % it becomes extremely difficult because the body never wants to just go straight to one or the other, it tends to use a tiny bit of fat but search for muscle glycogen too. So in this case then yes, your spinning your wheels. But otherwise, a guy who is 15% bf trying to get to 8% and build muscle and get leaner at the same time is very possible if nutrition is in check. Do you guys wanna know the real reason most guys cannot do this? It actually has little to do with individual differences and macros, they overtrain!!

[jdmullins002]

Thanks guys. U guys r a big help.

[Maverick_J8]

My first cutting cycle Prop/Tren A 100/100/day, I gained 10lbs and cut down to 5-6% bodyfat.

My protein was 1.5-2 per pound, carbs were solely oats and rice and kept at 250grams per day, and fats were supplemented with udo's oil. 40/40/20 macro split.

I trained for strength on all the big lifts at the beginning of each workout, 12, 8, 4, 2, 1, 12 rep scheme, then all remaining exercises were 10-12 heavy reps.

It's possible yes, and I hadn't even planned to gain.My strength increased, my endurance increases, my muscle increased, and my bodyfat decreased.

[mg1228]

Maverick---where were ur calories in relation to ur maintainance calories---and where was ur bf% before cycle

[Maverick_J8]

Maverick---where were ur calories in relation to ur maintainance calories---and where was ur bf% before cycle

Maintenance calories - give or take a 100-200kcal on individual days. I also used to cheat most weekends.

Bodyfat was approx 10-11% at the start of cycle, so in a good position at the start.

[Damienm05]

YES< IN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. You walk such a fine line though that for most its easier to bulk and get fatter or cut and get smaller. But yes its possible and I'm going to tell you why. 1 lb of fat has 3500 stored calories in it. Now we know fat cells cannot convert to muscle cells, but the muscles can use the surplus calories from the stored fat to grow. But once you get in the single digits bf % it becomes extremely difficult because the body never wants to just go straight to one or the other, it tends to use a tiny bit of fat but search for muscle glycogen too. So in this case then yes, your spinning your wheels. But otherwise, a guy who is 15% bf trying to get to 8% and build muscle and get leaner at the same time is very possible if nutrition is in check. Do you guys wanna know the real reason most guys cannot do this? It actually has little to do with individual differences and macros, they overtrain!!

Good post.

[mg1228]

Maintenance calories - give or take a 100-200kcal on individual days. I also used to cheat most weekends.

Bodyfat was approx 10-11% at the start of cycle, so in a good position at the start.

i gotcha---thats basically what im doin now--bout 200-300 over tdee with test prop @ 125mg eod---im usin oats for most all my carbs---started 7th week monday and im up 11lbs---could b leaner, but def aint gone up in bf%