Safest AAS for Men

[Chance1826]

I've been training with a top powerlifting champion for over a year now and have seen awesome gains, but have since hit a wall. My trainer wanted me to take 20mg of D-bol, ED for 6 weeks. Mind you my trainer was a pioneer in powerlifting and is highly respected in it and has done every steroid or stack known. I however, am not convinced that his recommendation for me to take D-bol is a great one. In fact, I'm opposed to it due to the side effects. I'm curious which AAS the members of this forum may recommend, which would be anywhere from very to fairly safe for men.

My current stats are

Age: 28
5'9"
181 Ibs
17% BF

My goal is to shred fat and build lean solid muscle and not add too much water weight. I though Winstrol stacked with Equipoise may be the solution because of it having the least amount of side effects. I'm a virgin to any type of steroid currently. I only take Parillo Creatine, Multi V, and his Mineral, as well as his 50/50 Protein daily.

Any help would be much appreciated...

[evil30]

Most vets will tell you that your BF is too high and diet and cardio are needed 1st. Then most will also probably recommend a good test base for your first cycle. I am no expert but would guess this is what most vets will advise. Good luck!

[terraj]

are you powerlifting or bodybuilding?

[no1tou]

are you powerlifting or bodybuilding?

He's definitely not bodybuilding at that bf%. He did mention his buddy was a power lifter so I can understand not being too worried about bf but hitting a wall after a year of training? Definitely a diet issue and/or training issue.

I trained for 6 years plus before I hit a wall and started AAS this year. I still had some gains to be made naturaly but they were coming way too slow at that point.

[Chance1826]

It's diet, not training. I started eating 6 meals a day about a month ago, but have always ate right. I however, do not eat red meat but once a month, as I never cared for it.

He's definitely not bodybuilding at that bf%. He did mention his buddy was a power lifter so I can understand not being too worried about bf but hitting a wall after a year of training? Definitely a diet issue and/or training issue.

I trained for 6 years plus before I hit a wall and started AAS this year. I still had some gains to be made naturaly but they were coming way too slow at that point.

[no1tou]

It's diet, not training. I started eating 6 meals a day about a month ago, but have always ate right. I however, do not eat red meat but once a month, as I never cared for it.

I realize that may not have been clear after re-reading my post but that's exactly the point I was trying to make. If you hit a wall after only one year, I dont think training has much to do with it. Your diet is definitely flawed.

[Chance1826]

Powerlifting...but looking to get cut up and build lean solid muscle.

are you powerlifting or bodybuilding?

[terraj]

Powerlifting...but looking to get cut up and build lean solid muscle.

Cool.

Your buddy says Dbol and lot of powerlifters are fans of this compound for the added strength is gives them.

If you are not ready to pin yourself really you are not ready to to cycle. But in saying that, you may get what you want from a Var cycle and to answer your first question, it is as far as orals go it is a very safe cycle.

[terraj]

Whoa nelly!
I just read the rest of the shit on this thread....you don't care about your squat? But you are powerlifting?

I have two posts on this thread and I would like my time back thanks.

[terraj]

Whoa nelly!
I just read the rest of the shit on this thread....you don't care about your squat? But you are powerlifting?

I have 3 posts on this thread and I would like my time back thanks.

[Chance1826]

I look into it. Thanks...

Cool.

Your buddy says Dbol and lot of powerlifters are fans of this compound for the added strength is gives them.

If you are not ready to pin yourself really you are not ready to to cycle. But in saying that, you may get what you want from a Var cycle and to answer your first question, it is as far as orals go it is a very safe cycle.

[Chance1826]

That' where the problem is as well. My strength conditioning trainer who was a former black ops drill sgt in the Army says I'm around 17% and my strength trainer who is a world powerlifting champion says I'm about 14%. It's so FU'ed. My powerlifting trainer said I should go on D-bol to cut fat via it protein synthesis.

Most vets will tell you that your BF is too high and diet and cardio are needed 1st. Then most will also probably recommend a good test base for your first cycle. I am no expert but would guess this is what most vets will advise. Good luck!

[Knockout_Power]

My powerlifting trainer said I should go on D-bol to cut fat via it protein synthesis.

Im guessing the boys on here know a lot more about AAS than your trainer. This is not meant as an insult, just the vet's on here are "experts".

Dbol is not a miracle drug and I think you will be quite dissapointed in the end result doing it his way. You may look leaner cause your muscles will grow and swell with water, strength will go up and you will be bloated, but happy with progress. Then when you come off, you will piss away 90% of it and realise whata waste of time it was on top of possibly doing damage to your liver etc.

[Chance1826]

How about Winny? I can get anything on the market... My buddies give test to themselves.. etc.. My SEAL buddies do a Winny / Equipoise stack...whcih seems to be working well.

[Nooomoto]

That' where the problem is as well. My strength conditioning trainer who was a former black ops drill sgt in the Army says I'm around 17% and my strength trainer who is a world powerlifting champion says I'm about 14%. It's so FU'ed. My powerlifting trainer said I should go on D-bol to cut fat via it protein synthesis.

What exactly is a "black ops drill sgt"?

I think your trainer(s) are blowing smoke up your ass, dude.

[Chance1826]

No, they are not. I'm in the teams, and my one trainer is a former drill instructor for Army SF. I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.

What exactly is a "black ops drill sgt"?

I think your trainer(s) are blowing smoke up your ass, dude.

[dec11]

No, they are not. I'm in the teams, and my one trainer is a former drill instructor for Army SF. I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.

but you cant train at his pace, hence your going stale/plateauing. you cant expect to train as intensely as a world champ, i wouldnt even come near his intensity and ive done it for 17yrs

[Knockout_Power]

I know for a fact they are both real, one has several books published about his powerlifting career and the other is well respected in the military.

I wont take shots at your trainers, they sound very well respected in their acheivements and knowledge. But keep in mind that with titles won and books published, we dont know the underlying facts, like what their vital organs look like after doing things their way for years.

Arnold dominated bodybuilding and is probably the biggest name in the sport even now, has published books that have sold 10's of millions of copies.

He is now the reipient of a quadruple heart bypass?

My point is, theres a differnce between doing something for 30 years and doing it right for the same amount of time. The negatives are sometimes the trade off for the fame and acheivments, but for the rest of us who dont get to be #1, it can just end up in damage. (worst case scenario of course, doing it right can significantly avoid problems)

[wheninrome]

What exactly is a "black ops drill sgt"?

I think your trainer(s) are blowing smoke up your ass, dude.

with you here Nooo.. wtf?

a SF instructor perhaps, maybe a Ranger Instructor, Delta are pulled from other units and don't have a "drill Sgt".. not much knowledge about Seals but a "black ops" Drill SGT? if your doing anything "black ops" you are already trained son_ you don't need a Drill.. i am also calling bullshit..

[Chance1826]

Delta I'm pretty sure we discussed but I'm not clear to what involvement.. I know for a fact he mentioned it. He was a former Airborne Ranger and than GB in Vietnam. That's about all I know of that part of his career. He later became an a drill sgt due to injuries and later and instructor. I said he was a drill sgt..for potential black ops.. and eventually a physical trainer to them once accepted. I did not find this forum to need to be a life's biography to my trainers conquests. I simply stopped by for answers. I gave a brief description of his former professional life, even I do not know much about it, nor do I care to either. I'm not Army nor do I want to be.

with you here Nooo.. wtf?

a SF instructor perhaps, maybe a Ranger Instructor, Delta are pulled from other units and don't have a "drill Sgt".. not much knowledge about Seals but a "black ops" Drill SGT? if your doing anything "black ops" you are already trained son_ you don't need a Drill.. i am also calling bullshit..

[Nooomoto]

with you here Nooo.. wtf?

a SF instructor perhaps, maybe a Ranger Instructor, Delta are pulled from other units and don't have a "drill Sgt".. not much knowledge about Seals but a "black ops" Drill SGT? if your doing anything "black ops" you are already trained son_ you don't need a Drill.. i am also calling bullshit..

Maybe this is the "black ops drill sgt"

[no1tou]

First off if you hit a wall after only 1 year of training then your buddy is either not giving you good advise or your not taking it. As for his suggestion about a dbol only cycle, it's just plain bad advise. I would suggest you read all the stickies and stop taking advise from that guy.

I love how every thread started by a new guys starts out, "My friend who is God told me this and I know what he says is the gospel cause he's God." And 9 times outta 10 is horrible advise.

[jasperhup]

well, he only said he was with the powerlifter for 1 year, he may well have been lifting before that. also, powerlifting guys often have higher body fat and less total muscle mass than body builders (to stay in weight class) but can get freaky strong (i've lifted with skinny fat guys who lift the weight room, it's a bit off putting and you know why body builders lift in front of the mirror!).

anyhow, not saying his buddy is telling him the best idea, but i do know a couple old school powerlifter guys who say a short d ball 10-20mg cycle is the best first cycle, anyone know what the best quick strength cycle is? tbol?

also, bjj has shown us that a straight anaver cycle only was a lot better than most of us thought, so who knows?

[no1tou]

, powerlifting guys often have higher body fat and less total muscle mass than body builders (to stay in weight class) but can get freaky strong (i've lifted with skinny fat guys who lift the weight room

This I know first hand. My friend John Self held the national record for a little bit for natural bench. He was like 5'5" 165-170lbs and benched 365. He didn't look like he could even lift 225 much less 356. That guy is a freak.

However I'm also a firm believer that being short is a huge advantage in power lifting. At least untill the point where their body has no more room for mass.

[dec11]

well, he only said he was with the powerlifter for 1 year, he may well have been lifting before that. also, powerlifting guys often have higher body fat and less total muscle mass than body builders (to stay in weight class) but can get freaky strong (i've lifted with skinny fat guys who lift the weight room, it's a bit off putting and you know why body builders lift in front of the mirror!).

anyhow, not saying his buddy is telling him the best idea, but i do know a couple old school powerlifter guys who say a short d ball 10-20mg cycle is the best first cycle, anyone know what the best quick strength cycle is? tbol?

also, bjj has shown us that a straight anaver cycle only was a lot better than most of us thought, so who knows?

not true, you just dont see the mass as clearly defined, and serious plifters dont particularily care for asthetics. ive plifted for 17yrs and i am starting to lean out a bit now and am fairly well carved with good mass, aswell as tht i've competed against many guys who were as ripped as any BB'er. plifting, like strongman, has become more athletic in recent times. OP, ive overcome plateaus naturally right up until my early 30's, sometimes a break is all you need, believe me

[Knockout_Power]

sometimes a break is all you need, believe me

great point... a week off to rethink your training or create a new program (which your trainer should be doing) can do wonders.

[dec11]

great point... a week off to rethink your training or create a new program (which your trainer should be doing) can do wonders.

ya, one month of heavy doubles and trebles can burn me right out these days, guys need to understand tht you cant thrash your body with big lifts week in week out for a long period of time. plifting is largely dependant on routine cycling

[Chance1826]

Oh yeah we cycle the program quite a bit! My strength conditioning trainer just keeps adding to the pile of swimming, running, and other exercises we do as well. I never get a chance to win in my conditioning because once I reach the level of success, he just makes it harder. My strength trainer however switches the program up constantly and we space squats and dead lifts far apart, but bench weekly and do other exercises as well.

ya, one month of heavy doubles and trebles can burn me right out these days, guys need to understand tht you cant thrash your body with big lifts week in week out for a long period of time. plifting is largely dependant on routine cycling

[jasperhup]

not true, you just dont see the mass as clearly defined, and serious plifters dont particularily care for asthetics. ive plifted for 17yrs and i am starting to lean out a bit now and am fairly well carved with good mass, aswell as tht i've competed against many guys who were as ripped as any BB'er. plifting, like strongman, has become more athletic in recent times. OP, ive overcome plateaus naturally right up until my early 30's, sometimes a break is all you need, believe me

well good for you on that career, i'm getting back into lifting seriously with competition in mind and i might bounce some Q's off you. to be clear, my was a relative one -- while some PLs have physiques of statues, the general (often i think was my selected word) body builder will have more overall muscle mass than say his twin who was a strict power lifter. lats, upper pecs, rear and side delts, quads and calves and biceps and even forearms are muscles body builders kill, but imo aren't as necessary for great PL numbers.

i will say i have found sets of 8-12 reps in the big 3 as a back off have improved my body mass, and powerlifters who are just super focused on low rep pure strength stuff tend to to add as much mass but piles on the strength.

your point is a fair one on the state of the art in powerlifting tho, i think i might have to retool my routine.

[powerliftmike]

In my experience dbol aromatizes more than any other AAS. So the lower the bodyfat the better with this one, or you might need some a-dex or the equivalent. I would start things off with a test e/cyp cycle assuming everything else, included years training, is in order.

[Chance1826]

Right..and I think that is where he was heading with his choice in D-bol, but IMHO it still sucks. He didn't even want me on Clomid, because he said to get wild yam..which may or may not be the same.

In my experience dbol aromatizes more than any other AAS. So the lower the bodyfat the better with this one, or you might need some a-dex or the equivalent. I would start things off with a test e/cyp cycle assuming everything else, included years training, is in order.

[wheninrome]

I'm a Navy Seal Ranger Green Beret Spy and i'm 5'2" and 65 pounds. I have been training with Jack LaLanne, Lou Ferrigno, Superman and The Gubnah. My hobbies are putting sailboats into bottles, kicking myself in the nads and flowers. I can squat 975 twice and bench 12 pounds. I have Aboriginal blood so i can run for 7 days without food, water or shitting. Can you guys tell me if Dbol is the key to life?

[Knockout_Power]

Sides all come down to personal reactions to the compounds. I get almost 0 sides from any AAS including Tren, Im lucky that way. I also know guys who have a hell of a time recovering from a simple test cycle.

Read the profile on dianabol, you will see it should not be taken without test.

You will also notice that AAS is not recommended with higher bodyfat % as it can significantly increase the chances of sides. So if the sides are your biggest concern, get your bodyfat under 13% before cycling anything

[Vitruvian-Man]

I've been training with a top powerlifting champion for over a year now and have seen awesome gains, but have since hit a wall. My trainer wanted me to take 20mg of D-bol, ED for 6 weeks. Mind you my trainer was a pioneer in powerlifting and is highly respected in it and has done every steroid or stack known. I however, am not convinced that his recommendation for me to take D-bol is a great one. In fact, I'm opposed to it due to the side effects. I'm curious which AAS the members of this forum may recommend, which would be anywhere from very to fairly safe for men.

My current stats are

Age: 28
5'9"
181 Ibs
17% BF

My goal is to shred fat and build lean solid muscle and not add too much water weight. I though Winstrol stacked with Equipoise may be the solution because of it having the least amount of side effects. I'm a virgin to any type of steroid currently. I only take Parillo Creatine, Multi V, and his Mineral, as well as his 50/50 Protein daily.

Any help would be much appreciated...

If you're looking to try out steroids then you should start with a testosterone based stack (IE)

Test-E (weeks 1 - 12) @ 500mg/wk
D-bol (weeks 1 - 4) @ 30 - 40mg/ed

If you're looking for something w/ less sides then d-bol you could run T-bol @ ~50mg/ed for 6 weeks. But don't expect the same explosive strength gains.

This type of cycle will help w/ strength gains, and is a much better cycle for maintaining and gaining more strength then just oral only cycles..

Make sure to research a PCT - which would consist of clomid + nolvadex - to run post cycle.

Good luck..

-VM

[Knockout_Power]

Winny is very harsh on the liver and stings like hell as an injectable. You will be amazed at the results of a spot on diet and a simple Test cycle. If you can handle frequent injections, a 10-12 weeks Prop cycle will work wonders.

I was always a long ester guy, using mostly Cyp. But this time around Im using Prop to cut this spring and Im feeling better than usual. I felt in working (I shite you not) by day 10, libido was up substantially. Im at the end of week 3 and already lifting heavier, which is about 2 weeks ahead of where I was on either Cyp or Enan.

Using Eq requires a long term commitment as Ive been told by most users is a 16+ week cycle to gain its major benefits other than in a stack to promote hunger in a bulking cycle.

If you wanted to end a test cycle with winny for the last 6 weeks, make sure to run good liver support. But honestly, why use more than one compound first time around? Get a good understanding of what test does to you and then modify future cycles.

KP

[Chance1826]

Orals...no injections! lol Test come in an oral form? I hate needles with a passion..

Winny is very harsh on the liver and stings like hell as an injectable. You will be amazed at the results of a spot on diet and a simple Test cycle. If you can handle frequent injections, a 10-12 weeks Prop cycle will work wonders.

I was always a long ester guy, using mostly Cyp. But this time around Im using Prop to cut this spring and Im feeling better than usual. I felt in working (I shite you not) by day 10, libido was up substantially. Im at the end of week 3 and already lifting heavier, which is about 2 weeks ahead of where I was on either Cyp or Enan.

Using Eq requires a long term commitment as Ive been told by most users is a 16+ week cycle to gain its major benefits other than in a stack to promote hunger in a bulking cycle.

If you wanted to end a test cycle with winny for the last 6 weeks, make sure to run good liver support. But honestly, why use more than one compound first time around? Get a good understanding of what test does to you and then modify future cycles.

KP

[Knockout_Power]

Test come in an oral form?

no it doesnt. Stay away from cycling please, this is for your health.

[dec11]

Orals...no injections! lol Test come in an oral form? I hate needles with a passion..

your kind of restricting yourself to anavar or tbol then, neither i belive are great for strength. halo is good for strength but i havent run it or know if test base is required, im sure sum1 will chip in on it

[Knockout_Power]

your kind of restricting yourself to anavar or tbol then

that is an option. Var is expensive. I have a friend who used Var 4 on 4 off to cut about 30lbs over 6 months. He tried to run it 6 on the last time and found he had ED which took almost 4 months to recover his stamina.

[dec11]

that is an option. Var is expensive. I have a friend who used Var 4 on 4 off to cut about 30lbs over 6 months. He tried to run it 6 on the last time and found he had ED which took almost 4 months to recover his stamina.

thts a nice decrease, not so good on the ED though, he could of done naturally aswell