First cycle and questions - opinions please

[Gameness]

I am going to start my first cycle next week and need some opinions.

Background;

6ft 180 pounds
basic strength training on and off, mostly crossfit type training done for the last couple of years. Been doing MMA/wrestling/boxing for 10 years, much more intense the last 3 years. Need to get a bit stronger, I have good muscle endurance/cardio.

Cycle:

Testo enan 500mg/wk for 8 weeks. One shot monday and one on thursday every week. Good for my goals?



I am going to add HCG and Nolva at the end of the cycle. Wait 2 weeks after last shot of test and run 40/20/20/20/20 ED of Nolva.

I am not sure how to run the HCG? if anybody could help, I would be thankful.

[wormwood]

8 weeks isn't long enough for long estered test. 10 minimum. What's your bodyfat%?

[stang10]

250 iu E4D starting 2-3 weeks after first shot, run test for 12 weeks.

[Gameness]

I cant get more test at this time. Will 8 weeks of test @ 500mg/wk be a waste of time?

Other people who use are telling me it will kick in after 4 weeks...I should do 10-12 weeks but 8 weeks will get me good results as well. Are they lying?

Please take note that I dont want to gain too much weight, but I want to get stronger...im a fighter and not looking to get huge, just stronger and more esthetically pleasing.

Edit: I dont have accurate equipment for a BF measurement. I am not ripped though.

[wormwood]

I think 8 would be a waste. If you're going to go through with a cycle and suffer the side effects of a cycle and shut yourself down, you might as well make it long enough to be maximally effective. It takes longer than 4 weeks for some for it to kick in. How old are you and what is your Bodyfat percentage?

[Gameness]

I think 8 would be a waste. If you're going to go through with a cycle and suffer the side effects of a cycle and shut yourself down, you might as well make it long enough to be maximally effective. It takes longer than 4 weeks for some for it to kick in. How old are you and what is your Bodyfat percentage?

I need to try and get ahold of some more...would 10 weeks @ 500mg/wk be enough? If I cant get ahold of any more...will the 8 weeks give me any results?

Im 24 years old and as mentioned I dont know my BF, I am not ripped.

[Matt]

Why not drop the dose to 400mgs ew and then run it for 10 weeks??

[Gameness]

Why not drop the dose to 400mgs ew and then run it for 10 weeks??

Well, thats smart. What should I expect gain wise from 400mgs ew for 10 weeks? And how would I do the HCG and Nolva on that cycle?

I have 60 tabs of Nolva and 5000iu HCG

Thanks alot

[Matt]

400mgs for a first cycle will give you great results as long as training and diet are good..

You need clomid for that pct and it should look like this..

Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Use your hcg for when your on cycle, 250/300ius two or three times a week...

[Gameness]

400mgs for a first cycle will give you great results as long as training and diet are good..

You need clomid for that pct and it should look like this..

Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Use your hcg for when your on cycle, 250/300ius two or three times a week...

People tell me clomid and nolva are the exact same thing except nolva is stronger?

And I thought you get on the HCG in the last couple of weeks of the cycle?

[Big]

People tell me clomid and nolva are the exact same thing except nolva is stronger?

And I thought you get on the HCG in the last couple of weeks of the cycle?

People who know the difference wouldn't tell you that. You need nolva and clomid for pct.

[Gameness]

People who know the difference wouldn't tell you that. You need nolva and clomid for pct.

Could you please inform me on what the differences are and why I need both?

[Big]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

[Nicotine]

+1 for clomid at the end....

the only thing i wonder, is you state training has been on and off.... how long have you currently been going consistantly for?

i just hope you've found what works for your body, and have your diet in check.....

all the best!

[Big]

forgot to answer, you would be better off dropping to 400mg/week for the longer cycle.
as for gains it's difficult to say, some guys respond better than others, genetics vary, etc.

[Gameness]

+1 for clomid at the end....

the only thing i wonder, is you state training has been on and off.... how long have you currently been going consistantly for?

i just hope you've found what works for your body, and have your diet in check.....

all the best!

I've been doing MMA and wrestling/boxing non stop for 3 years...at times i've trained 5 days a week. I dropped 40 pounds along the way.

I was thinking about eating 5000cal a day and bulk, then start doing intense cardio and drop to the proper weightclass staying as strong as possible.

Is it impossible to do a proper PCT with only HCG and Nolva? I will definately try to get ahold of clomid as well though.

[wharton]

400mgs for a first cycle will give you great results as long as training and diet are good..

You need clomid for that pct and it should look like this..

Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/20/20/20

Use your hcg for when your on cycle, 250/300ius two or three times a week...

Why use the HCG on cycle when it could work for recovery if used after? Also he could use the Nova and HCG for PCT and not need clomid at all? Theres just no reason to run HCG on such a low cycle, maybe if there was a nadrolone there it could be justified.

[stang10]

you dont use hcg in your pct...during the cycle

[wharton]

I've been doing MMA and wrestling/boxing non stop for 3 years...at times i've trained 5 days a week. I dropped 40 pounds along the way.

I was thinking about eating 5000cal a day and bulk, then start doing intense cardio and drop to the proper weightclass staying as strong as possible.

Is it impossible to do a proper PCT with only HCG and Nolva? I will definately try to get ahold of clomid as well though.

PCT
Nova 40mg 2wks, then 20mg 2-4wks
HCG 750ux2/wk until gone


a few other ways to use HCG for PCT

1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.

1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 3 weeks.

1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.

1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 100 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.

[Gameness]

Nova 40mg 2wks, then 20mg 2-4wks
HCG 750ux2/wk until gone


a few other ways to use HCG for PCT

1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.

1,000 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED and 50 mgs Clomid ED for an additional 3 weeks.

1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.

1,500 IUs HCG 3x/wk mon/wed/fri in combination with 100 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for the first 3 weeks. After, discontinue HCG and continue with 50 mgs Clomid ED and 20 mgs Nolvadex ED for an additional 3 weeks.

These numbers sound very very high? I heard HCG being talked about in the 500iu range...

So we decided that the best for me would be to run testo enan 400mgs/week divided in 2 shots, monday and thursday for a 10 week total.

Now I have 60 tabs of nolva and 5000iu of HCG. I need the HCG cycle simplified...

At what week during my 10 week cycle do I start my HCG and what amount would I use and on which days during the week?

[wharton]

These numbers sound very very high? I heard HCG being talked about in the 500iu range...

So we decided that the best for me would be to run testo enan 400mgs/week divided in 2 shots, monday and thursday for a 10 week total.

Now I have 60 tabs of nolva and 5000iu of HCG. I need the HCG cycle simplified...

At what week during my 10 week cycle do I start my HCG and what amount would I use and on which days during the week?

That was PCT listing not during cycle, which would be 2nd week after your last jab

[jksportssupply]

wow lot of different opinions in here !!

i for one think hcg works great in pct.

not that smart to first buy gear and than have a look at what you can do with it bro but here is what i would do.

I am not a big fab on newbies starting out with test but anyway if you have to

week 1-10 400mg test e per week

pct

25 days 40mg nolva per day
hcg first shot about 10 days after last test inject

i only take 2500iu shots because research has proven lopwer doses in men do nothing at all. I take 6 shots of 2500iu keeping 5 days in between injects.

Good luck bro

[Gameness]

wow lot of different opinions in here !!

i for one think hcg works great in pct.

not that smart to first buy gear and than have a look at what you can do with it bro but here is what i would do.

I am not a big fab on newbies starting out with test but anyway if you have to

week 1-10 400mg test e per week

pct

25 days 40mg nolva per day
hcg first shot about 10 days after last test inject

i only take 2500iu shots because research has proven lopwer doses in men do nothing at all. I take 6 shots of 2500iu keeping 5 days in between injects.

Good luck bro

Yeah I got the test because I heard it was a good basic compound, maybe good to see how I react to it as well.


This is what I have been able to figure out so far:

Test E, 400mg/wk 10 weeks
Wait 10 days after last shot and start PCT (nolva and HCG at the same time).
PCT: 40mg Nolva for 2 weeks, 20 mg for 2-3 weeks. 1500iu HCG every week divided in 2 shots monday and thursday for 3 ½ week (5000iu total).

Does that sound good?

Alot of questions...
Thanks for any help bro

[LeroyB]

Test is (or should be) the base for any and all cycles.

HCG is to be used DURING cycle to prevent your nuts from suffering, and speed recovery once your on PCT. Depending on age 250iu 2 x a week should be fine. Your HCG will only last max 60 days. Dont shake it up - do keep in fridge, dont be surprised if your nuts shrink at the end cause the HCG died (went off) near the end. <-- happened to me last time

You could wait till week 2 (or 3 keep reading) to start the HCG because of the time the Test will take to Kick (2 weeks) then your spreading 5000iu over 8 weeks instead of 10 making it more likely to survive when its needed most.
I personally would start cram the 5000ius into 7 weeks and be real sure so when my nuts are starting to suffer I am hitting them with the goodie juice and the juice will be good through the cycle.

If this is your first cycle you should see gains @ 400 pw. Get your diet right or suffer massive letdown latter.
PCT - Starts 14 Days after last shot and like you said nolva but I would also add some clomid. Standard protocol.

[wharton]

Test is (or should be) the base for any and all cycles.

HCG is to be used DURING cycle to prevent your nuts from suffering, and speed recovery once your on PCT. Depending on age 250iu 2 x a week should be fine. Your HCG will only last max 60 days. Dont shake it up - do keep in fridge, dont be surprised if your nuts shrink at the end cause the HCG died (went off) near the end. <-- happened to me last time

You could wait till week 2 (or 3 keep reading) to start the HCG because of the time the Test will take to Kick (2 weeks) then your spreading 5000iu over 8 weeks instead of 10 making it more likely to survive when its needed most.
I personally would start cram the 5000ius into 7 weeks and be real sure so when my nuts are starting to suffer I am hitting them with the goodie juice and the juice will be good through the cycle.

If this is your first cycle you should see gains @ 400 pw. Get your diet right or suffer massive letdown latter.
PCT - Starts 14 Days after last shot and like you said nolva but I would also add some clomid. Standard protocol.

Hcg can also be used During PCT.

All the info needed is in his thread now. so Bye.

[Gameness]

Test is (or should be) the base for any and all cycles.

HCG is to be used DURING cycle to prevent your nuts from suffering, and speed recovery once your on PCT. Depending on age 250iu 2 x a week should be fine. Your HCG will only last max 60 days. Dont shake it up - do keep in fridge, dont be surprised if your nuts shrink at the end cause the HCG died (went off) near the end. <-- happened to me last time

You could wait till week 2 (or 3 keep reading) to start the HCG because of the time the Test will take to Kick (2 weeks) then your spreading 5000iu over 8 weeks instead of 10 making it more likely to survive when its needed most.
I personally would start cram the 5000ius into 7 weeks and be real sure so when my nuts are starting to suffer I am hitting them with the goodie juice and the juice will be good through the cycle.

If this is your first cycle you should see gains @ 400 pw. Get your diet right or suffer massive letdown latter.
PCT - Starts 14 Days after last shot and like you said nolva but I would also add some clomid. Standard protocol.

Diet:

So far this is what im planning for a diet. I estimate that I am eating somewhere along 2000-2500 kcals per day at the moment, since I am not gaining or losing weight.

3 protein shakes a day of whey 80, one directly when I wake up along with breakfast. One before training and one after.

Meals will consist of rice, oatmeal, skinless boiled chicken breast, tuna, salmon, ground beef, pasta, vegetables, and nuts/seeds/flax oil and eggs.

I will eat around 5000kcal a day.

Vitamins will consist of;

8 tabs of antioxidants per day, 2 in the morning, 2 before and 2 after training, 2 at night.
1 multivitamin, 1 C vitamin per day.


How does that sound for diet?

Does the test enan really kick in after 2 weeks? I thought it was more like 4 weeks for the longer esters?

So I should start during week 3, 250iu monday and 250iu thursday along with my testosterone shots and keep it up until week 11 when my 5000iu is gone?

[Gameness]

diet:

So far this is what im planning for a diet. I estimate that i am eating somewhere along 2000-2500 kcals per day at the moment, since i am not gaining or losing weight.

3 protein shakes a day of whey 80, one directly when i wake up along with breakfast. One before training and one after.

Meals will consist of rice, oatmeal, skinless boiled chicken breast, tuna, salmon, ground beef, pasta, vegetables, and nuts/seeds/flax oil and eggs.

I will eat around 5000kcal a day.

Vitamins will consist of;

8 tabs of antioxidants per day, 2 in the morning, 2 before and 2 after training, 2 at night.
1 multivitamin, 1 c vitamin per day.


How does that sound for diet?

Does the test enan really kick in after 2 weeks? I thought it was more like 4 weeks for the longer esters?

So i should start during week 3, 250iu monday and 250iu thursday along with my testosterone shots and keep it up until week 11 when my 5000iu is gone?

ttt..

[LeroyB]

Your gonna make me do math now I see.

Im gonna get prescriptive here and keep things simple.
Vets Please Check my advice - I am no Pro!

Weeks 1 - 2: 200 Test E Mon / Thurs
Weeks 3 - 10: 200 Test E and 250ius HCG Mon / Thurs
Weeks 11 - 12: 250ius HCG Mon / Thurs
Week 13 (PCT): ED 40 Nolva / Clomid 50 280 350
Week 14 - 16 (PCT): ED 20 Nolva / Clomid 25 840 525

Totals:
4g Test E
5000ius HCG
42 (20mg) tabs of Nolva
35 (25mg) tabs of Clomid

I added the Clomid if you can get it, I would suggest you do.

As for diet post your plan in the diet section. Think about your macros etc. 5000 cal is probably too much for you I can bulk under 4000 cals easy.

Cheers

[Neevor]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

Thank you very much for posting this thread Big.

[Neevor]

Diet: So far this is what im planning for a diet...

Repost in the diet section homey.

The HCG should be run every third day during your cycle if you run it. With just 10 weeks of test you might not need it but it definately speeds recovery.

HCG in the PCT should be run ED at 250iu for the first two weeks following your last injection. Don't run it with your Nolva and Clomid. The combination can cause estrogen rebound and shut you down instead of get you back. Better to just run it through the cycle if you are going to.

[Gameness]

Your gonna make me do math now I see.

Im gonna get prescriptive here and keep things simple.
Vets Please Check my advice - I am no Pro!

Weeks 1 - 2: 200 Test E Mon / Thurs
Weeks 3 - 10: 200 Test E and 250ius HCG Mon / Thurs
Weeks 11 - 12: 250ius HCG Mon / Thurs
Week 13 (PCT): ED 40 Nolva / Clomid 50 280 350
Week 14 - 16 (PCT): ED 20 Nolva / Clomid 25 840 525

Totals:
4g Test E
5000ius HCG
42 (20mg) tabs of Nolva
35 (25mg) tabs of Clomid

I added the Clomid if you can get it, I would suggest you do.

As for diet post your plan in the diet section. Think about your macros etc. 5000 cal is probably too much for you I can bulk under 4000 cals easy.

Cheers

Perfect thanks alot for this. I am just going to run with nolva and HCG since I cant get my hands on clomid. And everyone im checking with (including a top pro bodybuilder) is telling me nolva has the same effect as clomid just stronger. I wont be counting calories but I will eat like a horse so I gain as much as possible then cut...possible with a low dose of winstrol and/or ephedrine.

[Gameness]

Repost in the diet section homey.

The HCG should be run every third day during your cycle if you run it. With just 10 weeks of test you might not need it but it definately speeds recovery.

HCG in the PCT should be run ED at 250iu for the first two weeks following your last injection. Don't run it with your Nolva and Clomid. The combination can cause estrogen rebound and shut you down instead of get you back. Better to just run it through the cycle if you are going to.

What is your opinion on Leroys cycle posted above? I think it sounds good.

[Neevor]

What is your opinion on Leroys cycle posted above? I think it sounds good.

Looks good to me too.