question about post workout drinks.. simple carbs / creotine / protein.

[aussie_bodybuilda]

so im really confused with all the shit people have been saying with the post workout drinks, everyone says different stuff so i dunno wat to believe...

ok first ill start with the simple carbs... theres waxy maize, dextrose, maltodextrin and glucose... which 1 should u take and with what and why... ( protein / creotine ).

then theres some people that say to take creotine first then wait 15-20min and take ur protein after, to help the creotine absorb better or some crap probly a stupid myth... because ive seen creotine already mixed into protein buckets that u use post workout so i dunno wat that is about...

if anyone could clear this up would be muchly appreciated thx

[scotty51312]

personaly when i take creatine, I take it PWO with 50g protien and 50g dextrose. Some studies have shown that the PWO spike in insulin from the protien/dextrose increases the effectiveness of creatine

[Gucks]

fast carbs do increase the effectiveness of creatine but i take my creatine pre-WO. just mix it with apple juice with my pre-WO supp. tbh i cant tell u whts best, it culd be 6 of 1 - half a dozen of the other.

for PWO carbs, ive had alot of arguements with ppl on here about it :P i still dont know a definiative answer. my trainer is a well respected trainer and he tells me 2 stick to whey PWO for protein and just 2 apples for fast carbs. waxy maize isnt actually fast carbs...its a bit of a myth.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy...tarch_myth.htm

and u dont want to take alot of simple carbs like dextrose or malto, their for endurance training! i know scotty said 50g of dextrose, but imo thats complete bullshit! i stick with just oats for my PWO carbs in my whey shake and and apple. to each unto their own.

theres another article if ur interested: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/post_workout_carbs.htm

sorry i couldnt give u a difinitive answer. GB or fire might be able to.

[Turkish Juicer]

my trainer is a well respected trainer and he tells me 2 stick to whey PWO for protein and just 2 apples for fast carbs. Countrarly, apples are slow-digesting carbs. Eating 2 at a time will make the Fructose in them dissolve into blood even slower due to prolonged digestion. Any well respected trainer will have this nutritional info. so there has to be a misunderstanding between you two.

and u dont want to take alot of simple carbs like dextrose or malto, their for endurance training! i know scotty said 50g of dextrose, but imo thats complete bullshit! Well, intake of simple sugars such as dextrose solely depends on body weight and goal. Dextrose is a monosaccharide (basic unit of carbohydrates, C6H1206) and has a high glycemic index ranking at 100. Given the nature of its chemical composition, it is a faster acting carb than both Maltodextrin and Fructose, making it a preffered source of simple carbs by most bodybuilders. FYI, Fructose directly goes to liver once dissolved in blood and replenishes the depleted liver glycogen stores as opposed to muscle glycogen stores. If your liver glycogen stores are already full, extra cals. from Fructose will be stored as BF.

Responses in bold.

[scotty51312]

I'm kinda tired of people knocking simple carbs for PWO here. I keep hearing people say that simple sugars have no place in a bodybuilders diet. I guess all the supplement companies have it wrong instead of making creatine in a dextrose or malodextrin formula with ALA they should just save some money and grind up oats and dust them with creatine.

Old school thinking was fructose, back when creatine monohydrate was the huge thing in the 90's it was the "holy grail" of supps, and everyones advice was to drink it in grape juice for the simple sugar (fructose)

Later studies done showed fructose to be inferior to dextrose in spiking insulin levels, along with other studies that Alpha lipoic acid raised insulin (in type two diabetics in the study) But still a sound principle.

Bottomline creatine with slow carbs is inferior to creatine with fast carbs.

[jimmyinkedup]

I'm kinda tired of people knocking simple carbs for PWO here. I keep hearing people say that simple sugars have no place in a bodybuilders diet. I guess all the supplement companies have it wrong instead of making creatine in a dextrose or malodextrin formula with ALA they should just save some money and grind up oats and dust them with creatine.

Old school thinking was fructose, back when creatine monohydrate was the huge thing in the 90's it was the "holy grail" of supps, and everyones advice was to drink it in grape juice for the simple sugar (fructose)

Later studies done showed fructose to be inferior to dextrose in spiking insulin levels, along with other studies that Alpha lipoic acid raised insulin (in type two diabetics in the study) But still a sound principle.

Bottomline creatine with slow carbs is inferior to creatine with fast carbs.

You arent seriously going to base what is most effective off of what ingredients supplement companies are using in their shiney tubs of glory are you ?
FYI - The whole high gi carbs / ala/ creatine theory took off with one of the biggest rip off supps ever - cell -tech. Now i like ala...but becuase im insulin resistant, and not just pwo.
Also old school is honey - which is glucose and fructose. Recent studies indicate this may , in fact, be best.
Fact is I think people have to try and see what works best for them. I personally cannot justify that amount of sugar intake for any reason and any insulin spike caused by ingestion of simple carbs cannot illict an anabolic effect that makes it worth the negative of that high intake of sugars. Thats just my opinion. I personally do best with low gi carbs pwo.
Also of note - once you have reached peak levels of creatine - there will be no diff in perfromance if you take it in water or in glucose or dextrose solution. Thats is a BS myth.
To each his own , but more and more i think its a matter of individual response. I cant see the benfit of rapid glyocogen replenishemnt when it comes with the cost of potential fat gain and detrimental overall health effects of that much sugar. Also considering it offers no increased muscle hyperatrophy ...then why bother? Only place may be prudent is in an endurance scenario or a "2 a day" sports training scenario ,etc.
All just my opinion.

[aussie_bodybuilda]

great more debates and more confusion !! now im even more confused then before lol

[Gucks]

I'm kinda tired of people knocking simple carbs for PWO here. I keep hearing people say that simple sugars have no place in a bodybuilders diet. I guess all the supplement companies have it wrong instead of making creatine in a dextrose or malodextrin formula with ALA they should just save some money and grind up oats and dust them with creatine.

Old school thinking was fructose, back when creatine monohydrate was the huge thing in the 90's it was the "holy grail" of supps, and everyones advice was to drink it in grape juice for the simple sugar (fructose)

Later studies done showed fructose to be inferior to dextrose in spiking insulin levels, along with other studies that Alpha lipoic acid raised insulin (in type two diabetics in the study) But still a sound principle.

Bottomline creatine with slow carbs is inferior to creatine with fast carbs.

the point about PWO carbs is to give u an insulin spike more so the glycogen restoration. glycogen will be restored anyway, but with insluin spikes u want to get it right. to much of a spike, ur just gonna put ur body in fat stre mode, to little and u wont have enough to recover properly. thats why i just stick to what i know, fruit. it gives me an insulin spike, i take oats for carbs and i get good results. someone else can get just as good results another way, but i just stick to what i know.

[Gucks]

Responses in bold.

i know ur gonna tell me ur a nutritionist but fructose isnt a slow carb, its not particularlly fast but it definately isnt slow. it has a gi of about 30 (depending on what u eat it with granted). and ye i know all about fructose restoring liver glycogen etc etc. ive heard the arguement a hundred times but i still havent found anyone who can give me a definative answer to whats IS a good PWO carb source. im as lost as the OP. i stick to what i know since theres alot of confusion out there already about PWO carbs.

this seems a bit rediculous but i heard from an article a while back that GI index may have nothing to do with how fast a carbohydrate is absorbed? i dont know how much validity the article held but im just curious if any1 else knows anything about it.

http://bodyfatindex.info/466573-The-...ant-Is-It.html

[Gucks]

You arent seriously going to base what is most effective off of what ingredients supplement companies are using in their shiney tubs of glory are you ?
FYI - The whole high gi carbs / ala/ creatine theory took off with one of the biggest rip off supps ever - cell -tech. Now i like ala...but becuase im insulin resistant, and not just pwo.
Also old school is honey - which is glucose and fructose. Recent studies indicate this may , in fact, be best.
Fact is I think people have to try and see what works best for them. I personally cannot justify that amount of sugar intake for any reason and any insulin spike caused by ingestion of simple carbs cannot illict an anabolic effect that makes it worth the negative of that high intake of sugars. Thats just my opinion. I personally do best with low gi carbs pwo.
Also of note - once you have reached peak levels of creatine - there will be no diff in perfromance if you take it in water or in glucose or dextrose solution. Thats is a BS myth.
To each his own , but more and more i think its a matter of individual response. I cant see the benfit of rapid glyocogen replenishemnt when it comes with the cost of potential fat gain and detrimental overall health effects of that much sugar. Also considering it offers no increased muscle hyperatrophy ...then why bother? Only place may be prudent is in an endurance scenario or a "2 a day" sports training scenario ,etc.
All just my opinion.

i couldnt agree with you more. u got the quote wrong though :P its "to each unto his own" lol.

i stick to what works for me, apples + oats in my whey shake. ive gained about 45ibs in a year doing it that way so i must be doing something right!

[Gucks]

great more debates and more confusion !! now im even more confused then before lol

lol, hey, im just as confused as you are.

[dec11]

fast carbs do increase the effectiveness of creatine but i take my creatine pre-WO. just mix it with apple juice with my pre-WO supp. tbh i cant tell u whts best, it culd be 6 of 1 - half a dozen of the other.

for PWO carbs, ive had alot of arguements with ppl on here about it :P i still dont know a definiative answer. my trainer is a well respected trainer and he tells me 2 stick to whey PWO for protein and just 2 apples for fast carbs. waxy maize isnt actually fast carbs...its a bit of a myth.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/waxy...tarch_myth.htm

and u dont want to take alot of simple carbs like dextrose or malto, their for endurance training! i know scotty said 50g of dextrose, but imo thats complete bullshit! i stick with just oats for my PWO carbs in my whey shake and and apple. to each unto their own.

theres another article if ur interested: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/post_workout_carbs.htm

sorry i couldnt give u a difinitive answer. GB or fire might be able to.

spot on young fella, good knowledge and learning!

oats provide a quick release as well as a sustained release of carbs, i know this practically through my insulin usage, ie; im not dead lol, 11grms protein per 100grms is also a nice bonus!

[dec11]

so im really confused with all the shit people have been saying with the post workout drinks, everyone says different stuff so i dunno wat to believe...

ok first ill start with the simple carbs... theres waxy maize, dextrose, maltodextrin and glucose... which 1 should u take and with what and why... ( protein / creotine ).

then theres some people that say to take creotine first then wait 15-20min and take ur protein after, to help the creotine absorb better or some crap probly a stupid myth... because ive seen creotine already mixed into protein buckets that u use post workout so i dunno wat that is about...

if anyone could clear this up would be muchly appreciated thx

chuck a goal desired amount of fine cut oats into your whey shake, stodgy but you get used to it, for after training. does not matter one iota when you take your creatine, i personally take mine in the morn with my vits etc

[scotty51312]

Not here to argue with anyone. I realize one of the main reasons for creatine supps to be in a "matrix" of whatever it might be, Dextrose/malodextrin, arginine, ALA was mostly because of how cheap Creatine monohyrdrate is. Yes its a revenue generator. I too am a huge fan of ALA its helped people in my family as well. But while it may be a revenue generator, for me along with others its worked well. But like i said to each thier own

[aussie_bodybuilda]

would really like an experts advice on all this lol.... and how the hell do u drink oats / apples / whey protein together??? i mean u cant exactly drink an apple and oats would be hard to drink aswell wouldnt they... lol

[jimmyinkedup]

Not here to argue with anyone. I realize one of the main reasons for creatine supps to be in a "matrix" of whatever it might be, Dextrose/malodextrin, arginine, ALA was mostly because of how cheap Creatine monohyrdrate is. Yes its a revenue generator. I too am a huge fan of ALA its helped people in my family as well. But while it may be a revenue generator, for me along with others its worked well. But like i said to each thier own

In bold is the key here and i agreee 100% with it.
OP I think at some point you are just going to have to make a detrmination what makes the most sesne to you , and try it for yourself. Then you have to see how you respond. I wouldnt make this out to be a be all , end all decsion. You try one method , if it doesnt work well for you , you try another. Once you do know what works for you , you are set for a long,long time,

[LatissimusaurousRex]

would really like an experts advice on all this lol.... and how the hell do u drink oats / apples / whey protein together??? i mean u cant exactly drink an apple and oats would be hard to drink aswell wouldnt they... lol

You just put your oats in the shake and down the hatch! Eat the apple.

[aussie_bodybuilda]

In bold is the key here and i agreee 100% with it.
OP I think at some point you are just going to have to make a detrmination what makes the most sesne to you , and try it for yourself. Then you have to see how you respond. I wouldnt make this out to be a be all , end all decsion. You try one method , if it doesnt work well for you , you try another. Once you do know what works for you , you are set for a long,long time,

fair enuff but how do u know if its working.... drinken the post workout shake isnt goin to just make ur body change in 2 seconds lol u look the same after every post workout shake u drink. :S so its hard to tell

[Gucks]

would really like an experts advice on all this lol.... and how the hell do u drink oats / apples / whey protein together??? i mean u cant exactly drink an apple and oats would be hard to drink aswell wouldnt they... lol

lol, i buy my oats finely ground (like a powder) some people just chuck pinhead oats into their shake and chew them like GB...

[Gucks]

fair enuff but how do u know if its working.... drinken the post workout shake isnt goin to just make ur body change in 2 seconds lol u look the same after every post workout shake u drink. :S so its hard to tell

u can judge it by how u feel the next day/week. if u have bad DOMS the next day and u cant push urself as hard as usual then change ur PWO nutrition. thts not a concrete way 2 judge but u should be able 2 tell in 1/2 weeks if ur PWO shake is working for you or not. its simply a mtter of going through the list untill u find 1 that works for u then :P i tryed plenty of store bought PWO shakes before i just started making my own.

[RaginCajun]

would really like an experts advice on all this lol.... and how the hell do u drink oats / apples / whey protein together??? i mean u cant exactly drink an apple and oats would be hard to drink aswell wouldnt they... lol

they invented a blender for this purpose

[aussie_bodybuilda]

yeah cus i just carry blenders with me all the time ay lol..