High bf% and cycling

[jimmyinkedup]

Ok so first i'll say this is all just my opinion and theory on why lower bodyfat % (under 10-11%) makes sense prior to cycling. First of all all little personal info (all avail in my profile - abridged version here) Im currently coming off a 7 moth layoff from training and 8 moth layoff from cycling due to a severe car accident. I let myself get very out of shape for 2 reasons 1- i was pyhsically unable to workout at all due to accident. 2- Lost all self discipline as far as diet. Now I have used steroids for 15 yeas - i would say last 12-13 pretty effectively and with a fair knowledge ...but always continueing to learn. So here i am ... 16 % bodyfat (ugh) and just getting back into training. My approach : 1- Got diet on track / 2- training on track / 3- get in as good a condition as possible WITHOUT aas as far as bodyfat / strength etc / 4- then i'll do my next cycle. Now this could take months - maybe up to a year i dunno. Point is Even after years of aas use i think this is the smart effective way to go. Just my opinion ..not fact. NOW my theories on why bf% should be below 11% -

1- If you want to truly maximize aas effect there is a level of self discipline required - to establish that you should be able to at least get diet and training to a respectable level along with physical condition.

2- By approaching cycle being in somewhat good condition / with diet in line / you will be physicially able to perform effective, high intensity workouts. Obvious benfits.

3- Estrogenic sides amplified with higher bodyfat %. And no an AI will not totally offset this.

4- High body fat with 19 nors (this is more my own theory - just opinion folks)
I feel this combo is extremely prone to sides. With the ability of 19 nors to produce progesterone related sides ..and estrogen being required to do this. I feel the higher estrogen level associated with higher bf% combined with the progesterone from 19 nors is asking for potentially severe sides from 2 different angles Estrogen as well as much more severe progesterone related sides due to elevated estro levels.

5- This is an add on that I was reminded of by a post from legobricks - so thanks bro. Blood pressure. Many aas will result in an increase in blood pressure ..this would be greatly amplified with a high bf% and could , obviously, be very dangerous. Might well be the #1 general health risk reason not to cycle at higher bf%. T

Now again - im not trying to be Joe Juice Guru. These are just my opinions - I see it coming up alot. This is my approach. If its not for you thats cool ...if it is i hope it helped. - Seamus

[WARMachine]

I agree with 100% of what you said bro...

A lot of it is also proven fact as well. Many studies have been done on the dangers of high BF% and AAS use. Not to mention those using 19-Nor compounds.


Good post!

Look into Clen/t3 combo to help with the BF.

It works wonders!

[daem]

It's all about the discipline!

Diet, rest, training are the keys. Juice just helps maximize the effectiveness of all three.

I'm still cutting down before beginning my winter bulker...Making solid gains in strength and in the mirror so I'll be primed and ready to maximize.

Good luck as you continue to cut bro.

[Amorphic]

agreed. the estrogen issues that can arise due to high bf would be unpleasant to say the least.

[big_k]

Good info and post. Thanks, I'm in a similar situation although I have never cycled...but definitely not touching anything until I get BF% down.

[hotsauce2k]

BUMP...

Great read / info. Never thought about that. I have been working out for 3 years but have been battling bodyfat in the 16-22% range. Makes sense to get down to the lower levels of BF. Damn. No I have to wait in order to get on a cycle. LOL

[Immortal Soldier]

I would like to say in most cases (70-80%) of people who have high bf% are not ready for AAS at all. I mean, unless you have a condition or the such than there is no reason you should have a 16+ fat percentage PRIOR to use of cycling unless you always bulked and never cutted (naturally).

I mean the highest I have ever been is 16% and that was coming off a massive 40+ lb bulk (it was my first bulk/first time lifting IE. n00b gains) and even then I was able to drop to 12% in less than 4 months just by having solid training and dieting.

Now of course, I understand when there is a 30+ year old man on the board who has a higher than average bf% because the older you get the less efficient your metabolism works and the more susceptible you are to fat gain compared to your youthful teens and 20's.

But it seems that I constantly see people who have 15% bf wanting to cycle and right of the back it tells me that they either don't have a proper diet, dont do cardio, or their training intensity is not up to par because you should lose fat just by weight lifting alone.

Also the other aspect is people lieing about their bf%, I think some people (mostly newer members) never really took their bf% before or use the weight scales bf% from their gym or some bs like that. So what happens is that they UNDERESTIMATE their bf% (part of its not knowing the other is the conscious not wanting to know how "fat" they really are). I mean I will be the first to say it, when I first weightlifted and did my first major bulk I thought my bf% was 13-14% and I was shocked when the trainer told me I was 16%. So underestimating and not knowing also plays a part.

[Mammon]

i think there are way to many that are not dedicated to training and really the lifestyle as a whole and are just looking for the easy way out..
i mean, why bust your ass in the gym for years and focus on getting your diet and training right first when you can wait and do this when you start taking gear.. the fix it drug.. lol
madness

[ALLSHO]

Interesting philosophy....I think your on to something!!!

Too many guys feel aas is a wonder tonic that will solve all their problems, they think aas provides maximum results with minimum effort.

[The Deuce]

Ok so first i'll say this is all just my opinion and theory on why lower bodyfat % (under 10-11%) makes sense prior to cycling. First of all all little personal info (all avail in my profile - abridged version here) Im currently coming off a 7 moth layoff from training and 8 moth layoff from cycling due to a severe car accident. I let myself get very out of shape for 2 reasons 1- i was pyhsically unable to workout at all due to accident. 2- Lost all self discipline as far as diet. Now I have used steroids for 15 yeas - i would say last 12-13 pretty effectively and with a fair knowledge ...but always continueing to learn. So here i am ... 16 % bodyfat (ugh) and just getting back into training. My approach : 1- Got diet on track / 2- training on track / 3- get in as good a condition as possible WITHOUT aas as far as bodyfat / strength etc / 4- then i'll do my next cycle. Now this could take months - maybe up to a year i dunno. Point is Even after years of aas use i think this is the smart effective way to go. Just my opinion ..not fact. NOW my theories on why bf% should be below 11% -

1- If you want to truly maximize aas effect there is a level of self discipline required - to establish that you should be able to at least get diet and training to a respectable level along with physical condition.

2- By approaching cycle being in somewhat good condition / with diet in line / you will be physicially able to perform effective, high intensity workouts. Obvious benfits.

3- Estrogenic sides amplified with higher bodyfat %. And no an AI will not totally offset this.

4- High body fat with 19 nors (this is more my own theory - just opinion folks)
I feel this combo is extremely prone to sides. With the ability of 19 nors to produce progesterone related sides ..and estrogen being required to do this. I feel the higher estrogen level associated with higher bf% combined with the progesterone from 19 nors is asking for potentially severe sides from 2 different angles Estrogen as well as much more severe progesterone related sides due to elevated estro levels.

5- This is an add on that I was reminded of by a post from legobricks - so thanks bro. Blood pressure. Many aas will result in an increase in blood pressure ..this would be greatly amplified with a high bf% and could , obviously, be very dangerous. Might well be the #1 general health risk reason not to cycle at higher bf%. T

Now again - im not trying to be Joe Juice Guru. These are just my opinions - I see it coming up alot. This is my approach. If its not for you thats cool ...if it is i hope it helped. - Seamus

I totally agree bro. I was in a bad accident also about a year and a half ago. been cycling effectively for 3 years. my body fat no joke, shot up 27% while i was layed up. Since given the ok from the doc about ooh 6 months ago i have managed to get down to 21% ...it's coming along and alll but here is the kicker... i just got put on TRT. Currently on Androderm 5mg patchs, Yes i know they are junk but next week iam going to injections. what I am wondering is how is this all going work with consideration of how friggen fat i am? I mean the Doc will probably put me on 200 mgs per week for the TRT. I know that isn' true cycle strength but still we are talking enough to see some benefits but i wasnt obviously planning on truly cycling til i was back down to what o consider the best time to do it. Now I am being thrust into a situation where i need to take the test and iam in no way in shape enough to be doing so. i am sure it will all work out. i plan to hit the cardio harder than i have been. thinking like Hour a day 5 days a week.... i just dont want any adverse effects to arise because iam out of shape. i really dont envision any such thing to occur but what is you guys take on it?

[MercyDog]

Some have bodyfat from being lazy, some have it for power. No AAS unless under 10% is just a hard pill for me to swallow. A TRUE 10% is not much fat at all. I'm now at 13% and have about an inch thick of stomach fat that I can pinch at the very bottom with a good bit of visable vascularity. I'd be surprised if NFL lineman or powerlifters could not use aas effectively.

Having said that I do understand that its a really good idea to be on platue and in shape before consideration of aas.

[DS21]

Some have bodyfat from being lazy, some have it for power. No AAS unless under 10% is just a hard pill for me to swallow. A TRUE 10% is not much fat at all. I'm now at 13% and have about an inch thick of stomach fat that I can pinch at the very bottom with a good bit of visable vascularity. I'd be surprised if NFL lineman or powerlifters could not use aas effectively.

Having said that I do understand that its a really good idea to be on platue and in shape before consideration of aas.

I have to agree 100%. I would love to see a picture of the majority of people saying they are 7-9% bf. I believe a lot of people think they are leaner then they are. I've only met a hand full of people that walk anywhere near 7% bf year around. For those of you that do, much respect, but as long as I can see my abs, I'm happy no matter what % I am.

[inky-e]

This is my experience...in the process of losing weight and training..I used gear to help the process along...I was probably way over 20% when I started....long story short...I dropped the weight..(140 lbs)...and built muscle along the way....today I'm probably at 10-9 % BF....so....if someone is totally dedicated...works hard...and has a good grasp of diet and training...bf..is just relative.

[The Deuce]

This is my experience...in the process of losing weight and training..I used gear to help the process along...I was probably way over 20% when I started....long story short...I dropped the weight..(140 lbs)...and built muscle along the way....today I'm probably at 10-9 % BF....so....if someone is totally dedicated...works hard...and has a good grasp of diet and training...bf..is just relative.

I couldn't agree more bro !! Nice job on accomplishing that. That is hard work and determination for ya!! what compounds did you FIRST start out with? Just TEST ? and was it the PROP ester?

[jimmyinkedup]

well a bit of a follow up. I struggle with this commitment ...i do. Its taking a long time to get where i need to be (or want to be) im working hard and it is difficult not to just jump back on. On top of it when i did get bf% checked by water displacement it was 19.5% (has dropped since then) not the 16 my piece of shit hand held said (and u know in my head i knew that 16 was wrong - too low) So here i am working twords my goal. I think its admirable for people like inky to achieve what they have and used juice just as an assist ...while keeping all else in check. In addition the temptation to jump back on is compounded by the fact that lots of time and hard work withered away post accident i was in a wheelchair for months...strength is down ...size is gone (what a mind fvck watching legs shrink up) On the postive i am able to work out ...im ok and it will come back ...now its just patience and discipline. This topic is a personal decision ....im sticking with my plan and hopefully will be on cycle soon enough. It is ironic though i made this post so confidebtly and have struggled with this very issue in my head. So far im sticking to the plan and do think its best for me to get back to good condition and lower bodyfat...thats just for me. - Seamus

[UncleD]

i think for a bodybuilder yes get your fat down low first then cycle up and down, as for strongmen, powerlifters, weightlifters, people who just want lots of strenth and have sides under control then bf does not need to be low..there are ways to control sides as in letro, liqidex, b6, carbo diet bp meds potasium pills ect i personaly know powerlifters at 25% bf who run a gram of test and 600+ deca and eat handfulls of anadrol they got bellys like crazy and they are wicked strong and keep sides down its all relative

[dovedescent]

I have conflicting oppinions on this.As I totally agree with the first post,i also must say that i dont think most people are i the 7 or even ten range that i see on this stuff. And besides,i did a total body transformation last year,on a tren/mast/prop cycle (cruising) and i went from 32% to 17%.Which 17 isnt good at all..BUT would you prefer 32? I dont think so...im much healthier now,with much more muscle,DISCIPLINE,and i have a taste of what its like to be close to where i wanna be,so spending the money on the juice,and dedicating myself,and getting closer to my target motivates me that much more.Luckily the stuff im on doesnt aromatise TOO badly,which helps.

I mean if you want to get TECHNICAL,i wouldnt recommend what i did..It probably was much harder than if i would have just cut up first without gear.But its POSSIBLE and didnt get many estrgenic sides.

[UncleD]

alot of people just dont relize how hard it is to get to 12% let alone 10% and under esp if your not geneticly lean.. its a GD feat just to get to 15% if your prone to being fat like i am..not that it cant be done.. just your gona lose some muscle alot of strenth on the way to getting that low and its hard to hold it and you will get tired and bulk up and gain 2-4% bf and feel great..if your not naturaly lean or gain fat easy you feel like total dogshiet at a low BF

[pakroids]

Nice post Jimmyinkedup, and to add on to your #5 a high b.p. added with extra fat prob indicates not so good diet so the plaque deposition in arteries(atherosclerosis) would be bad, jm2cents,
peace, good post.

[UncleD]

go to a doc and get beta blockers or water pills, take garlic and get lipitor... theres always things to combat other things lol its just worse and harder to do, and need more things if your a higher bf%

[lovex]

Bump bump

[pakroids]

No dudes and dudettes when that LDL is going to be taken by macrophages(scavengers)
and formed into a foam cell and hit that arterial wall fibrosing into the intima i doubt all these meds will help,
added with tha fact High B.P. making this process faster,
added with the fact steroids will lower HDL and increase LDL,
added on to the fact you wont know tell it hits you,

there are more added to the facts , im just blasted as hell right now, i dont mean to flame any1 just why take the risk, not to mention how other meds, orlistat whatever will have other effects in body other than helping reduce cholesterol or inhibit its formation.
just my 2 dollars.

[inky-e]

I couldn't agree more bro !! Nice job on accomplishing that. That is hard work and determination for ya!! what compounds did you FIRST start out with? Just TEST ? and was it the PROP ester?

I started with just cipionate...later I used prop...winnie...sust..clen...etc...I also need to mention that for like 9 months straight I did 2 a days in the gym and any spare time I had ..I was exercising in one way or another...maybe a little extreme or obsessive...but its what I needed to do.

[jimmyinkedup]

^^better obsessive in that area than others bro. Props to you and your commitment and progress.

[jbm]

Honestly, I almost did my 1st cycle 3 weeks ago without any idea about steroids then I registered here and read the different threads. Veterans and other members gave me a lot advices specially about my bf%. At least now! I already have an idea on steroids and still reading and learning.
If I did my cycle 3 weeks ago without knowledge, I will be a walking time bomb! lol...
I really wanna thank you guys! this forum is the best!

[dehydromethandrotren]

I used to feel the same way but, Dave palumbo has a thread on a forum where he answers questions etc and I asked him very thoroughly about bodyfat and steroids. He replied in rather great detail how scientifically, bodyfat will not make steroids any less potent. Something along the lines of the amount of steroids you inject add androgen receptors and offset the negative effects of estrogen receptors in pre existing bodyfat cells. ANd personally the only negative side effect I really had with high dosed 19 nors was over a gram a week made me tired as hell all the time.

[jimmyinkedup]

the op said nothing re potency - it referred to condition , discipline , potential side effects and blood pressure..... At any rate all perspectives are welcome....

[mg3]

inky how did u do it?

[Randall6]

I'm glad I came back to this forum... I didn't honestly think nothing about high bf & gear....
wow!
totally makes sense
& now.... I am seriously gonna wait longer before I jump on board...
...I wasn't lookin for a quick way...
I just don't do cardio... I've always used my diet to drop/gain weight/muscle
but I don't think its ever been below 10% ......

[farmstrong]

the trainer at my gym took my bf% by making me grab this thing that looked like a video game controller and told me to squeeze,,, never saw this method beofre then, is this accurate at all??? in high school they had a set of skin calipers they would check your torso and arms with and then calc it up, seemed alot more effective to me,

[Immortal Soldier]

the trainer at my gym took my bf% by making me grab this thing that looked like a video game controller and told me to squeeze,,, never saw this method beofre then, is this accurate at all??? in high school they had a set of skin calipers they would check your torso and arms with and then calc it up, seemed alot more effective to me,

No, the calipers are way more accurate, those controller tests are a "rough" estimate keyword on rough.

The best way to get your bf% taken besides calipers is in a pool.

[T-MOS]

the trainer at my gym took my bf% by making me grab this thing that looked like a video game controller and told me to squeeze,,, never saw this method beofre then, is this accurate at all??? in high school they had a set of skin calipers they would check your torso and arms with and then calc it up, seemed alot more effective to me,

the electronic gadgets for measuring bodyfat aren't all that accurate for bodybuilders in my opinion

If you can find someone that will do the calipers and do more than a 3 pinch, that would be a better more accurate indicator

[farmstrong]

the electronic gadgets for measuring bodyfat aren't all that accurate for bodybuilders in my opinion

If you can find someone that will do the calipers and do more than a 3 pinch, that would be a better more accurate indicator

so i may be a bit lower then 27%??

where can i buy these calipers? gnc maybe?

[T-MOS]

so i may be a bit lower then 27%??

where can i buy these calipers? gnc maybe?

it is difficult to do to yourself as there are spots you won't be able to reach. You would be better calling around some health care facilities or other gyms to see if any of their trainers are skilled with it as the calculations can be tricky also.

[aussie01]

Thanks for this post. I'm at 20% b.f and loosing inches by the week due to heavy weights, cardio and eating clean. What would be the utmost minimum b.f%?

[BudsmokeBC]

thanks for the info about BF%

[salig]

nice thread. I was wondering though, are you talking about a cycle or are you a cyclist?

[roek]

Awesome info. I have been researching for the past 6 months and will be for quite some time to come before i start my first EVER cycle. I have one curious question, and that would be what would you consider to be a high BF%? What would you aim for before starting a cycle? Obviously theres other factors but this one kind of struck me because i really never thought about this (thanks newb guide, lol). My main concern here is Maximizing with little to no sides. Thanks in advance

[Bonaparte]

Awesome info. I have been researching for the past 6 months and will be for quite some time to come before i start my first EVER cycle. I have one curious question, and that would be what would you consider to be a high BF%? What would you aim for before starting a cycle? Obviously theres other factors but this one kind of struck me because i really never thought about this (thanks newb guide, lol). My main concern here is Maximizing with little to no sides. Thanks in advance

You bumped a 3 year old thread to ask a question that was answered in the OP...