Illogicality about steroids and age similar to the likes of Gary Wadler.

[LolWuter]

I just typed a whole thing but the damn spam software attachment to this forum made me click back so everything was deleted.

Here is the main point:

1) Myth: Steroids shouldn't be used by people ages 18-25 because they are at a greater risk of shutdown compared to older guys.

This is factually incorrect. Males above age 30 have testosterone levels that are in decline. They are placing a burden on themselves when they cycle and their levels are less likely to go up. I have seen this personally and it makes logical sense. Young adults have their testosterone levels rising and it goes up without any help. Now you're adding PCT to boost LH and FSH. Why do you think that there is a greater risk of no recovery compared to a body that doesn't really want to increase testosterone. There are a few who say they started at 18 in this forum looking at the post history but nobody ever mentions why. It's usually because they don't have their diet down at that age, I know, but it is much riskier for an old guy to juice compared to a young adult. Hence, if a 19 year old has the same amount of knowledge of juice as a 28 year old, he can juice just as well as him. Go to Palumbo's website. There are a few teens there who know their stuff and aren't shut down.

2) Myth: 18 year olds are at their testosterone peak.

This is absolutely false. I have told 18 year olds at the gym to get their blood work and their test levels taken and all came back with something around 30 for total test. Guys in their late 20s have levels double this. Matter fact, go search it up, guys in their 20s have the highest levels of testosterone. They peak at age 28, 29, and 30 then they start declining. Logical isn't it? Things usually decline after a peak.

Until somebody gets a source or any information that leads to other conclusions than this, they should understand that they sound like Gary Wadler, who always talks about the evils of steroids but cannot back it up.

[LolWuter]

Thanks spam blocker for deleting everything else I wrote.

[DanB]

nobody said they at greater risk of shut down, they at greater risk of their hpta not being fully developed and in turn not recovering, its a fact proven by science and medicine you cannot agrue with it

[DanB]

your also wrong, it peaks in puberty another fact

[magicstick2003]

sources for info? Posting information without citing anything doesn't prove any point. Since the majority of the body systems work through feedback loops. Dramatically increasing a young persons hormones could lead to the body ceasing production on own (shut down) because it thinks it's where it needs to be developmentally. Only problem is when the exogenous hormones are stopped will the body properly recover and restore function to continue to develop that individual? Condoning the use of AS to young people based on a theory is irresponsible and ignorant. I don't think there has been enough (if any) studies that could adequately give you an answer. Not to mention hormones are responsible for development, by increasing these hundreds of times above baseline what effects will that cause on the development of the individual?

[magicstick2003]

Steroids may affect growth and maturation. Rising levels of testosterone and other sex hormones normally trigger the growth spurt that occurs during adolescence. When these hormones reach certain levels, they signal the bones to stop growing. When a child or adolescent takes anabolic steroids, the artificially increased level of sex hormones can signal the bones to stop growing prematurely (NIDA, 2005).

[LolWuter]

At Dan B: Source?

[LolWuter]

Also I'm sorry for taking long to post. I can barely post anything with this spam blocker.

[DanB]

they facts, if you done any research you would know that and not need to ask for sources

did you start this thread to try start an arguement or what?

[LolWuter]

^ Sure. Show us the facts? And everything I've personally experienced with users is just a huge coincidence?

[DanB]

im not going to bother digging out facts just because you cant be bothered doing any research

how the fvck do you think people are on trt at 22-23yrs?

im heading for it myself, dont even try tell me that it would of happened without steroid use because that is complete b.s. if you do try say it

[DanB]

i aint going into this bolix, start researching and stop drawing conclusions in your own head without any knowledge or proof

best of luck with it

[LolWuter]

I did research buddy. There's not many on TRT at age 22. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just pointing out the parallels of people like you and Gary Wadler, who produces no evidence when he is confronted for his claims. Doing internet research is like playing Modern Warfare to do your military service: It only exposes a little of what everything is about. I repeat: A 30 year old can get shut down as much as an almost fully developed 21 year old.

[DanB]

I did research buddy. There's not many on TRT at age 22. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just pointing out the parallels of people like you and Gary Wadler, who produces no evidence when he is confronted for his claims. Doing internet research is like playing Modern Warfare to do your military service: It only exposes a little of what everything is about. I repeat: A 30 year old can get shut down as much as an almost fully developed 21 year old.

there is plenty here on trt under 25, i will prob be shortly aswell so how the fvck can you say i have no experience? you dont know me on what i have used so dont fvcking compare me to anybody, I REPEAT NOBODY SAID THEY COULDNT WE SAID IT WILL STOP THEIR DEVELOPEMENT which magic sited in his above post

[LolWuter]

I know it stunts growth. Not what I'm talking about I'm talking about getting test levels back within normal ranges after the cycle. I never said you don't have experience either. And trust me t here is always more on TRT at a later age.

[DanB]

yeah there because their test levels have declined naturally, i dont know where your getting peak at 27+ from thats complete b.s. and you have nothing to prove it with

how can they recover properly when they havnt finished developing?

Im finished with this b.s. but your going to need something to back up what your saying, it wont be long before marcus see's this thread then your fvcked lol

[The Bear 79]

OP, you're not getting it, we all agree that everyone gets shut down when using steroids, there's no argument there, 18, 22, 30, 45, it doesn't matter, everyone gets shut down, what you're not understanding is the fact that under the age of 25 the HPTA is not fully developed & is at significantly greater risk of damage including but not limited to, permanent shut down. You claim to have done a sh!t load of research, if that is true, then surely you came across some info pertaining to the development of the HPTA. If you didn't, then you didn't do any research at all, & everything you have stated is just your opinion, formulated in a manner that suits your cause, not fact.

[V-ROID]

I agree with there not being more chance of shutdown before age 25, but your source conveniently left out the part about chances of recovery before age 25 as I am sure someone has already pointed out... Plenty of people under 25 convince themselves there is no risk then they end up here in the TRT forum. Rationalize away...

[songdog]

I love that spam blocker

[LolWuter]

Exactly what I was talking about. Before it was 21, now it's 25. Can I choose the newest number? What about 23, is that good? What about 30? Your HPTA never "finishes developing". Your hormones incline until your at your peak in your late 20s and then start declining. I'm in a PharmD program so I know my stuff when it comes to scrips so I hope you know that young teenage girls are given birth control pills that have female steroids estro and progest in them and this is done without second thought.

Also still no explanation why you guys allow female juicers. Ew.

[The Bear 79]

I agree with there not being more chance of shutdown before age 25, but your source conveniently left out the part about chances of recovery before age 25 as I am sure someone has already pointed out... Plenty of people under 25 convince themselves there is no risk then they end up here in the TRT forum. Rationalize away...

Like I said, its all just his opinion conveniently formulated to suit his cause. I'm betting on 1 of 2 scenarios here, (1) he was banned for cussing everyone out when they told him he was too young to cycle, now he's back, claiming to be 31 & hell bent on proving himself right. Or (2) He was never banned, but he knew before he joined that he wouldn't get any cycle advice under 25 so he's claiming to be 31 & has a chip on his shoulder about the whole age thing & wants to prove himself right. Either way he's just making a fool of himself & discrediting any further posts he may ever make during his membership here.

[The Bear 79]

Exactly what I was talking about. Before it was 21, now it's 25. Can I choose the newest number? What about 23, is that good? What about 30? Your HPTA never "finishes developing". Your hormones incline until your at your peak in your late 20s and then start declining.

Nobody ever said it was 21 or any other age for that matter, its always been 25.

[V-ROID]

Having gone back and read this thread it makes me wish I had a time machine so I could go back to high school and eat Dbol out of a Pez dispenser to help my Tren only cycle kick in... Seacrest out!

[LolWuter]

I'm getting different sources here that say peaks are either early 20s or late 20s. All of them agree that levels start dropping after that though.

[DanB]

I'm getting different sources here that say peaks are either early 20s or late 20s. All of them agree that levels start dropping after that though.

So levels are higher in late 20's than in teens during puberty when you have constant wood yeah that makes sense alright

[LolWuter]

The Bear 79: I'm having a debate. I never joined this website before this. I'm also not 31. I'm in my 20s. I'm not cycling currently so who cares?

Most steroid websites say 21. Now it's 25 here?

Vegan: Tren is a stupid idea for a young man. Cycling is a stupid idea in high school I'm talking about the use of injectable testosterone in young men age 18-25. I'm also talking about how you guys let females ruin their hormones with steroids, but I guess you just ignored that, for the whole thread.

DanB: DHT has more to do with "constant wood" but no source says that men reach their peaks in their teens.

Again I don't see why you people can't have normal discussions or debates without getting insulting.

[V-ROID]

So you are saying that injecting Test between ages 18-25 does not stop your natural Test production but actually only adds to your overall Test level with no harmful side effects? I think millions of half-hard 30 somethings would say otherwise...

[The Bear 79]

The Bear 79: I'm having a debate. I never joined this website before this. I'm also not 31. I'm in my 20s. I'm not cycling currently so who cares?

Man, I don't know how I do it, I just have a nose for sniffing you lying fvckers out...........

[gixxerboy1]

According to MayoClinic.com, testosterone levels in men peak during the teen and early adult years, then decrease about 1 percent a year after age 30.

[LolWuter]

I made my account a while ago and put a random age. So what?

And Vegan: I didn't say that at all. Where the hell did you get all of that?

[LolWuter]

And I still haven't heard any rebuttal to my question of why female members are allowed. Do you really think that young men get harmed more than females with using testosterone?

[JohnnyVegas]

And I still haven't heard any rebuttal to my question of why female members are allowed. Do you really think that young men get harmed more than females with using testosterone?

I don't remember a female member discussing using Test for a long time. Other things, sure, but they don't mess with Test much.

And young men are allowed here. They are just encouraged to wait on AAS use. All info is available to everyone - only a lazy person comes here and exclusively depends on members answering their questions when there are thousands of threads available on any subject.

The owners of the site have said there should be a softening on the 25 thing, but it hasn't really caught on. Mostly because members don't feel comfortable giving advice to a young person that might contribute to future problems.

[Bonaparte]

Are you done trolling yet?

[Andigity]

I honestly get what your saying. I kind of agree with what you are saying, but I'm probably doing so because I'm 19. I rather not take the risk though and just wait my time.

[tlash88]

I feel this thread should be deleted!, it's going to give kids under 25 the wrong information. So instead of waiting like they should, there going to feel its okay at a young age. Nice job troll!

[LolWuter]

^ Everybody is responsible for their own actions.

You aware btw?

And people between 18-25 aren't kids. In many cases they're killing machines in the military and taking huge risks.

[swm1972]

News flash. 24 year old self supporting men that works for a living, are of age to vote, and serve and die for this country are kids...

Don't be condescending. Nobody here is condoning a 16 or 17 year old kid using steroids. But I don't think referring to an adult man as if he were a child is fair.

If a person under 25 is set on doing a cycle the condescending bullshit they find here isn't going to dissuade them They will find better advise from more knowledgable people speaking from experience on a number of boards.

But don't let that stop the traditional circle jerk that ensues everytime anyone tries to bring any form of debate to the forum. I'll leave this thread so the regurgitated BS can come to the surface again.

[magicstick2003]

He's angry....you are right people who don't like the advice here can go elsewhere and get advice from other people, till they get the answer they want. However they may not know they jacked themself up for quite some time. To each his own boss, if you want to take the risk of permanently messing up a developing system then be our guest. To me 20 lbs doesn't seem like an acceptable risk.

[magicstick2003]

Also you're using a number t define adult. Not maturation of the body and full developement as backed by science. You say 16/17 is a child but how developmentally are they different than an 18/19 year old who's body is making the same developmental changes?

[LolWuter]

He's angry....you are right people who don't like the advice here can go elsewhere and get advice from other people, till they get the answer they want. However they may not know they jacked themself up for quite some time. To each his own boss, if you want to take the risk of permanently messing up a developing system then be our guest. To me 20 lbs doesn't seem like an acceptable risk.

Different boards have different leaders and attitudes. RXMuscle is the most libertarian board I guess but it's also the biggest (in the size of the members) and Dave Palumbo is very knowledgeable. I know a couple of HUGE 19/20 year olds that juice on that board whose test levels are fine and get routine bloodwork.