aka "JOB"
I have been experiencing some major heart burn/sour stomach for the last cpl days. Really made me quite sick last night and this morn. Has anyone experienced this before while cycling?
Is there any relationship to the heartburn and cycling or is it simply a coincidence?
Knowledgeable Member
I get extreme GERD with most orals. Not so with injectables.Originally Posted by Lunk1
Banned
Really? I haven't had any problems with Anavar. Just massive calf pumps walking to and from the gym lol. I am feeling pretty lethargic too it's quite annoying. Will that go away when I start PCT? Does the Nolvadex help with that? And to the OP, how quickly do you eat your food lol? If your on cycle and usually pretty hungry, then you might be eating faster than usual?
Associate Member
Hey Lunk, I have exactly the same problem. In fact, I posted a similar thread a few months back. I'm thinking about using some prilosec next cycle.
Knowledgeable Member
Anavar will do that at 100mg or more for me. Anything less Anavar doesn't bother me.
What AI are you running with Anavar? Any?
Banned
Nope. Didn't want the side effects of an AI. And I got mixed answers in regards to an AI. A lot said you don't need an AI, and some said I do. I just don't like the sound of the side effects from an AI on Anavar. The only supplements (other than multi's, creatine etc) I'm using with the Anavar are Liv52 and Lipid Stabil.
Knowledgeable Member
Avoid PPIs like Prilosec. Rebound is worse. Use famotidine or ranitidine.
aka "JOB"
I don't even know what any of that is lol....
Knowledgeable Member
Fatigue could be elevated E2, but only E2 sensitive assay would be conclusive. Other possibilities could be over training, nutrition, etc.
Knowledgeable Member
Pepcid and Zantac.
aka "JOB"
Ill grab some Zantag in the morn...thanks buddy. Enjoy, call if ya need bond
Knowledgeable Member
Lol, anytime. I'll be in and out before they knew what hit them.Ill grab some Zantag in the morn...thanks buddy. Enjoy, call if ya need bond
Banned
Thanks. Well I haven't really displayed any signs of really elevated estrogen. I mean, my nipples are the TINIEST bit puffy, not as bad as I see some people with gyno. No itching, soreness or lumps under the nipples either. Anyway, I've been to the gym for fifteen days straight now, no rest. I've been getting insane gains doing this, even though I know rest days are important.
Knowledgeable Member
I had an estro of 295 and the only symptoms were extreme fatigue. You can't simply go by everything you see or read here. Too many people think gyno is the only symptom of elevated estro. That's why you need to read and learn and not just take everything you hear at face value. A lot is true but I'm a firm believer if you are going to do this stuff it your responsibility to learn, learn, learn.
15 days straight!?! Not smart at all. You grow when you REST. Right now you are over training.
Banned
The thing I don't understand is what's so bad about overtraining if your results/gains are better than when you were just going four or five times a week?
Knowledgeable Member
Your body NEEDS the rest. Training in the gym breaks muscle down. Your body rebuilds/repairs and gets stronger when you SLEEP. If you train continuously you don't give your body time to recover. Continuously stressing the body by over training can also raise cortisol which competes with testosterone, will slow growth, and increase injury. The fatigue is your body's way of telling you to TAKE TIME OFF. You need to listen to it.
Do you think the pros or even the vets that have done this longer than you may have been alive train at that intensity? The answer is no.
Eat. Lift. REST. Repeat.
Banned
No I absolutely agree. I'll take the vets opinions on this matter over my own any day lol. I just couldn't work out why I should rest if my gains were better and quicker when training non stop. I'll take your advice though. Marcus gave me some good advice much like yours so I think two vets outweigh a noob's opinion easily haha. Thanks. Is a 3:1 training protocol alright? Three days on, one day off?
Knowledgeable Member
Yep. 3:1 or 2:1 depending on your training protocol. I used to train 6 days off and 1 day on. My gains improved with more rest, not more training....but I learned the hard way.
Associate Member
I'm glad this got brought up. I was thinking about throwing the same question out there. I just started getting some heartburn/gurd yesterday after being about 2 weeks into running tbol at 50mg ed. I also wondering if it could be related. I also had other sides before the heartburn started like drowsiness and strange sides with my vision thats hard to explain. Its kind of like seeing spots or shadows in my periferal vision. Even almost feels like im walking around in a dream. But the vision thing doesnt last very long when it happens, only about 20 min.
Anybody else ever experience anything like this??
Knowledgeable Member
The stomach issues are not uncommon with orals. Everyone puts so much emphasis on liver health (for obviously good reasons!) but orals can also cause problems with stomach flora and lead to heart burn, GERD, diarrhea, and even affect appetite. In addition to some of the OTC meds I recommended earlier in this thread for dyspepsia or GERD, I also take probiotics and digestive enzymes for all my cycles - oral and injectable.
WRT to your vision problem, I haven't come across this but I do know that some of the more serious issues with oral anabolics lately that have been brought to my attention are those coming from British Dragon. I'm not suggesting they are selling bad product but its been a common factor in many of the cases I've been asked to assess and comment on.
Associate Member
Thanks for the advice on the stomache medicine, ill def take you up on that. And yes, it just so happens that the tbol IS brittish dragon
Knowledgeable Member
Oh boy. That's 3 for 3 on the BD now. Ouch.
Banned
Yes! Holy shit! The vision thing only happens to me occasionally where it feels like I see a bright light out the corner of my eye, or some sort of spot or shadow. Happens probably every day, but it's just like two second thing where I turn to look at it and it's gone.
Knowledgeable Member
Is your gear from BD?
Banned
No. I don't know if it's just from looking at a computer screen for a few hours. It's not a really noticeable vision thing like the above poster said he has. It probably isn't from the AAS, but who knows. Mine is Lixus Labs.
Associate Member
I was actually gonna post something about this. I don't have bad heart burn but I do have it on injection days.
aka "JOB"
That's some funny shyt right there lol
Productive Member
Hopefully this wont effect your eating today!
Knowledgeable Member
The only thing affecting my eating is a lack of food!!!
Banned
Bold is not true, building new muscle tissue occurs 24/7. It wouldn't make much sense if it was only when you slept, as if some chemical was released during a certain phase of sleep and this hormone enables muscle cell proliferation. If this truly was the case then that chemical or hormone would be EXTREMELY sought after by bodybuilders as you would be able to have it in your body 24/7 and you get 16 hours more of muscle building/day that way. I agree that rest is very important, but the sleep/building thing isn't true.
Banned
Hey Lunk,
I haven't read through this thread but I will say that there IS definitely a correlation between GERD/heartburn and oral AAS use. Are you running any orals? It is related to impaired bile function in connection with the effect of oral AAS on the liver. I posted about this in a thread long ago where another member asked the same thing. I'll try to look for it and then post the link here for you to see. It's nothing to freak out about, but its something that UDCA/TUDCA will take care of.
Knowledgeable Member
Sworder,
Don't be ridiculous. I'm not suggesting that you only repair and recover when you sleep. That assumption is absurd and asinine. You've got young guys on here thinking that working out 15 days straight is okay. That's just as ridiculous. Go ahead and tell them sleep isn't important and see how far they get before injuries and other ailments occur.
Saying sleep isn't important makes as much sense as telling them nutrition is overstated and unimportant. The message I'm trying to convey is that sleep is as vital as training and eating. These young guys take anabolic compounds, feel invincible, and workout far too long and over train. It's counterproductive and there is no way I will be convinced otherwise. Go ahead. Sleep less, over train and see what happens. I know you're not that naive man. Just don't convey they wrong message.
Banned
Lunk, I found it. Read through this thread here:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...nd-acid-reflux
I also mentioned these issues in my liver thread here:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...-ORAL-TOXICITY!!
And here is the specific snippet from my liver thread concerning the heartburn issue:
Everytime now that I take an oral AAS, I get massive heartburn within 3 days. I even tried an injectable oral and still got acid reflux within a week. So, I did some research and found some interesting information. This is just a random post I found on Google.
http://www.********.com/forums/archi...p/t-36636.html
Everyone seems to miss what is happening here. If an oral kills your appetite, it is because it is too toxic for the liver. I forget exactly what happens, but to summarize, when the liver is overloaded it causes a slowing of digestion, and a backflow of bile, which is why you also see people complaining of acid reflux on harsh 17aa's. The only way to really cure your appetite is to drop the anadrol. Perhaps next time around run with liv. 52 and alpha lipoic acid?
From what I read, bile helps with digestion. Now, when I take an oral AAS, the pain I get is similar to acid reflu/heartburn, but not exactly. It feels more like the food I eat just sits in my stomach and rots, never digesting. Lets say I eat some tacos on Tuesday, by Thursday morning I am still burping that taste up.That always made me wonder if orals cause heartburn or something similar.
Now read this
http://www.emoryhealthcare.org/liver...blems.html#PBC
In primary biliary cirrhosis, inflammation destroys the bile ducts and prevents bile from escaping the liver. The accumulated bile damages healthy liver tissue, eventually leading to cirrhosis (scarring). As scar tissue replaces healthy liver tissue, the liver loses its ability to function. All this happens very slowly. People with PBC can lead healthy, symptom-free lives for 10 years or more after diagnosis.
Though primary biliary cirrhosis is often asymptomatic, especially early on, the most common symptom is extreme itching, especially in the arms, legs and back. Other symptoms include fluid buildup in the abdomen or legs, jaundice (yellowing of the eyes and skin), or fatty deposits and darkening of the skin under the eyes.
The standard treatment for PBC is a daily dose of a medication called ursodiol. Ursodiol improves liver function and increases life expectancy in people with PBC. Other medications may be indicated for controlling symptoms
Banned
I must have misinterpreted your message, I apologize.
I agree and wrote as well that rest is important, otherwise as you said stress hormones will prevent hypertrophy.
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