Chest lagging behind Shoulders and Tris. Question on this. (Pics attached)

[Blackmambar]

Hi all,

I have posted a few times a while back.

I'm sure this question gets asked all the time, but to put it simply my Shoulders and Arm development is decent however Chest is lagging, and has been doing so since I've been training years back.

I'm certain the genetics within my chest area isn't the best which would be the main cause of this, however are there any other methods I could try to tackle this issue?

One thing I'd like to mention - I never use machines in any of my workouts as people say avoid using machines at the gym, and do compound movements etc. But the other day I was staying at a hotel so I used there gym which had no free weights, only machines. So I used the chest press (heaviest weight I could lift for 4-6 reps) to work my chest and to my surprise the next day my chest was killing me and pumped the most I have ever experienced for a while![/B][/U]

As a result of this experience I feel perhaps in my case the solution to my problem would be to primarily use press machines for my chest workout, maybe I'll do 3 sets of bar/dumbbell bench press, then 4 sets on incline press and some dips??

I have also tried increase volume and rep, super sets, drop sets - none of these methods seems to make a difference.

My normal chest routing involves 3 sets (4-6 reps) flat barbel dumbbell press, 3 sets incline barbel/dumbbell press, 2 sets body weight dips then I would do 6 sets on shoulders next (twice a week).

Any opinions, or will I never have a decent chest because of my body structure?

Thanks.

[kelkel]

Some peoples shoulders tend to dominate on chest work. A thought would be to try some pre-fatigue type work. Meaning do an isolation exercise before your compound work. e.g.: flyes before presses and see if your chest then gives out first before you shoulders and triceps do.

It also doesn't matter whether it's free weight or machines. If you find something that works stick to it. That simple!

[Blackmambar]

This sounds like a plan... I'm going to give it a shot next chest workout.

Is it safe to assume that the more your chest is sore and pumped the next day the better the workout was (and more muscle gain)... or is that a bad way of judging?

[Turkish Juicer]

Is it safe to assume that the more your chest is sore and pumped the next day the better the workout was (and more muscle gain)... or is that a bad way of judging?

I don't know about others but this is exactly how I judge it...

[Turkish Juicer]

^^^ Kel gave you some solid advice. I too go through a phase every year where I prioritize isometric exercises over press exercises for chest. I will warm up my rotator cuff first, then do a few light chest exercises to warm up the chest. When I feel ready for my first working set, I will start my chest workout with 4 sets of standing cable crossover chest fly. I will squeeze my pecs, concentrate both on eccentric and concentric parts of the exercise during every rep, I will go as heavy as I can for a 12-15 rep range since my chest is not fatigued yet, rest time strictly 1 min. in between sets. Then comes incline dumbell chest flies at a 45 degree angle, same training philosophy as above. Third exercise will be incline dumbell chest press, rep range being 8-12, 1 min. rest time in between sets. Last comes chest machine press, rep range and rest time basically the same as the 3rd exercise. This routine can surprise you when your chest is sore as hell the next 2-3 days, and it has many advantages over the conventional chest training routines. 4 weeks of this phase is about ideal IMO. You have to give it a try and see it for yourself.

[Blackmambar]

Where the like button

[kelkel]

To add a little more. Unless your training for a bench meet do not start every chest workout with flats. How many people run around with an over-developed upper chest? I almost always emphasize upper over lower. I also employ a very brief yet intense training regimen. Explore different rep ranges as well. Use your intuition and feedback your body gives you to determine your path forward. Also do not over-train as so many do....

[gbrice75]

I have the exact opposite problem. My triceps and particularly my delts are almost non-existent, but my chest is probably my best muscle group. Wanna trade!?

How many people run around with an over-developed upper chest?

That would be me. It's over-developed relative to the rest of my body, IMO. But you're right - I see very few guys, even guys way bigger than me, with a well developed upper chest. It's my single saving grace where physique is concerned.

[csavage0]

Lots of solid advice. Gb I have the same fricken problem. The other way around looks better in a t shirt. sucks. I want big shoulders!!!!!! KelKel you are a monster...

[twitz]

I think they are bang on with your shoulders dominating. I had this issue (and still have to remind myself to pull my scap back, especially when going heavy).

Get someone to take a video of you performing your chest exercises. Make sure they are on an angle that will determine if your shoulder is coming into play. Also, get them to take the video towards the end of your reps/sets because that's when people tend to compensate.

These guys above are so good! I hired a trainer to help me fix my problem, and his solution was to pre-exhaust That way you don't need to go as heavy, you can focus on proper form and get great results.

[canesfan804]

I did pre exhaustion for a bit and it worked for a few weeks for me but I guess I got use to it cause I stoped getting sore. Just recently I have dropped weight on everything and started concentrating on going slow(2secs down and 1 sec up on bench) and contracting (flexing the muscle) all the way through the exercise. Also like Kel said I dont do flat bench everytime. I ususlly start with decline barbell, incline dumbell, incline flies, cable flies and such. I have been on this for about 9 weeks and chest has hurt every week except one. Think I wasnt concentrating on contraction. If you have time youtube Kei Green I'll never be a weight lifter. explains it nicely.

[Bio-Active]

There is nothing wrong with using machines bro. The hammer strength machine is my go to exercise for chest. Then i do free weight flys. Then whatever i feel like to finish it off and 5 sets of each for a total of 15 sets for chest. I haven't done flat bench in 3 years.

[Turkish Juicer]

^^^ I am with jim on this one. A quality chest press machine such as hammer strength combined with a lifter who knows how to perfectly utilize the machine will deliver results, without a doubt.

I stopped hitting the bench press as a part of my chest routine about 2.5 years ago due to a shoulder injury and regardless, my chest has been gradually growing since then.

[Blackmambar]

This sounds promising, thanks for the info, I think I will stick with it and see how it plays outs...

[Blackmambar]

^^^ I am with jim on this one. A quality chest press machine such as hammer strength combined with a lifter who knows how to perfectly utilize the machine will deliver results, without a doubt.

I stopped hitting the bench press as a part of my chest routine about 2.5 years ago due to a shoulder injury and regardless, my chest has been gradually growing since then.

This sounds promising, I'm going to stick with the machine for a bit and see how it plays out...

[gearbox]

Decline suppose to be easier on the shoulders. I still decline dumbbells or bb. I ditched flat years ago also

[kaptainkeezy04]

i think cutting down on your bodyfat percentage will help your chest come out. i always considered chest one of my weakest parts until i did a proper cut. I leaned out, and all of a sudden my chest was hanging over my abs, as opposed to my gut protruding past my chest.

[Blackmambar]

i think cutting down on your bodyfat percentage will help your chest come out. i always considered chest one of my weakest parts until i did a proper cut. I leaned out, and all of a sudden my chest was hanging over my abs, as opposed to my gut protruding past my chest.

hello mate,

What you say is a very interesting response... I actually feel the same way and funny enough I have spent been literally try to cut down since July... the pics you see above are me actually 5-7kgs lighter and I still need to cut more down as you said.
I am currently having a big issue with this right now because it has currently been another couple months since the above pic was posted and I have lost maybe another further 3-4kgs.
Now I simply feel smaller and weaker. It feels like I am losing muscle and fat at a consistant rate and the same time which is not making me any more lean/muscular but rather simply just a smaller version of the pic above... It's so tough to get the right results, not sure what to do...
I'd rather be big and bulky then small and leaner...

[Blackmambar]

I think I might post a seperate thread about this actually...

[dan991]

Okay.. I'll jump in on this one as I'm pretty good at finding routines that cause vagina's to hurt for even the most swole cat in the gym. First off- put down the dumbbells and forget the bench. That's easy and you need some trickery involved with your boobies to get them to grow.....

Chest Routine based on pics:

#1 Push Up Split: These are standard push ups. Do as many as you can (to failure) and when you can barely do one more; drop your knees and do them like a chick would (knees on the ground). This will pre-exhaust all other muscles and when you drop your knees you will REALLY feel this in your chest as your pectorals have no choice but to take over completely to do the additonal reps. You want to do the knee push up's to failure also.

#2: Free Motion Dual Cable Cross Machine (google it). Set both arms down about 2-3 clicks from very bottom setting. You want the machine to look like an upside down V. Put 20-30 lbs on the machine, grab both handles and walk forward 2 feet. By now you should be facing away from the machine with handles in both arms; arms by your side (hips). Bend your knee's just a little tiny bit so they are not locked. Arms straight- lift up and in at the same time. Essentially, you are making an upside down V with your arms so they meet in front of you chest level. This is gonna hurt your boobies (not in a bad way).. word to the wise; start VERY low in weight. The biggest guys in the gym have a hard time with this exercise.. not kidding. Based on your pics- I'll be surprised if you can do 16-20 reps with 30 lbs total on the machine.

#3: Dips: Self explanatory. No dip machine assistance; your body weight to failure.

Actual Work Out (in order)

Push Up Split- 2 x failure
Free Motion Machine- 2 x 16 (16 should be failure, adjust weight accordingly starting at 30 lbs)
Dips- 2 x failure

Do one set of push up, then to free motion, to dips. Repeat twice.

Now, here's the fun part; NO REST. Your rest should be the time it takes to get from one work out area to the next; that's it. Let me know if you have any questions. If you don't have a free motion machine at your gym let me know and I can give you another way to do the same thing. You will not like this work out; but you'll see a lot of chest growth quickly. Promise.

[Blackmambar]

Okay.. I'll jump in on this one as I'm pretty good at finding routines that cause vagina's to hurt for even the most swole cat in the gym. First off- put down the dumbbells and forget the bench. That's easy and you need some trickery involved with your boobies to get them to grow.....

Chest Routine based on pics:

#1 Push Up Split: These are standard push ups. Do as many as you can (to failure) and when you can barely do one more; drop your knees and do them like a chick would (knees on the ground). This will pre-exhaust all other muscles and when you drop your knees you will REALLY feel this in your chest as your pectorals have no choice but to take over completely to do the additonal reps. You want to do the knee push up's to failure also.

#2: Free Motion Dual Cable Cross Machine (google it). Set both arms down about 2-3 clicks from very bottom setting. You want the machine to look like an upside down V. Put 20-30 lbs on the machine, grab both handles and walk forward 2 feet. By now you should be facing away from the machine with handles in both arms; arms by your side (hips). Bend your knee's just a little tiny bit so they are not locked. Arms straight- lift up and in at the same time. Essentially, you are making an upside down V with your arms so they meet in front of you chest level. This is gonna hurt your boobies (not in a bad way).. word to the wise; start VERY low in weight. The biggest guys in the gym have a hard time with this exercise.. not kidding. Based on your pics- I'll be surprised if you can do 16-20 reps with 30 lbs total on the machine.

#3: Dips: Self explanatory. No dip machine assistance; your body weight to failure.

Actual Work Out (in order)

Push Up Split- 2 x failure
Free Motion Machine- 2 x 16 (16 should be failure, adjust weight accordingly starting at 30 lbs)
Dips- 2 x failure

Do one set of push up, then to free motion, to dips. Repeat twice.

Now, here's the fun part; NO REST. Your rest should be the time it takes to get from one work out area to the next; that's it. Let me know if you have any questions. If you don't have a free motion machine at your gym let me know and I can give you another way to do the same thing. You will not like this work out; but you'll see a lot of chest growth quickly. Promise.

Hey buddy, thanks for all the info...

I'll be honest with you... I have a thing about lifting light and free wieght excercises and high reps (with some exceptions such as dips and pull ups).
I only like to train heavy and with rest in between each set to maximise my lifts (maybe this is my problem?).
I know its probably not the best attitude to have, but I cant force myself to do excercises that I dont enjoy... know what I mean?

[dan991]

Hey buddy, thanks for all the info...

I'll be honest with you... I have a thing about lifting light and free wieght excercises and high reps (with some exceptions such as dips and pull ups).
I only like to train heavy and with rest in between each set to maximise my lifts (maybe this is my problem?).
I know its probably not the best attitude to have, but I cant force myself to do excercises that I dont enjoy... know what I mean?

Okay... but what are you training? You said you wanted to train your chest. Reality is- some people have stronger muscles in areas other than what you intend to train. You can do a bench press (of any kind) for example and 80% of it can be shoulders, 5% triceps, and 15% chest. As much as we want to believe that putting 315 on the bench and banging out 4 sets of 6 reps is gonna get you mass; its case by case. The routine I'm giving you pre-exhausts all other muscles so your body has nothing to rely on other than you pectorals. That's what you wanted to build right?

[Blackmambar]

Okay... but what are you training? You said you wanted to train your chest. Reality is- some people have stronger muscles in areas other than what you intend to train. You can do a bench press (of any kind) for example and 80% of it can be shoulders, 5% triceps, and 15% chest. As much as we want to believe that putting 315 on the bench and banging out 4 sets of 6 reps is gonna get you mass; its case by case. The routine I'm giving you pre-exhausts all other muscles so your body has nothing to rely on other than you pectorals. That's what you wanted to build right?

What you saying makes perfect sense... I definitely believe that exercising through bench is exactly how you say "You can do a bench press (of any kind) for example and 80% of it can be shoulders, 5% triceps, and 15% chest".

However, I feel doing 30-40 pushup to get to failure then a further 10 on the knees (for example) totaling 40-50 pushups in a set is overkill and probably to much strain and not efficient (that's just the image I have in my head).
Right now I'm thinking the ideal solution (for me) I have in mind is to use machines where I can still have the benefits of lifting heavy while being able to isolate the chest more with strict form...?

[dan991]

What you saying makes perfect sense... I definitely believe that exercising through bench is exactly how you say "You can do a bench press (of any kind) for example and 80% of it can be shoulders, 5% triceps, and 15% chest".

However, I feel doing 30-40 pushup to get to failure then a further 10 on the knees (for example) totaling 40-50 pushups in a set is overkill and probably to much strain and not efficient (that's just the image I have in my head).
Right now I'm thinking the ideal solution (for me) I have in mind is to use machines where I can still have the benefits of lifting heavy while being able to isolate the chest more with strict form...?

That's where I think the common misconception is; how much weight is enough to build mass. If you think about it, its almost impossible without pre-fatigue to hit your chest directly. If you could completely isolate just your chest- how much weight do you think your pectorals can actually take? Its probably less than 30% of the weight you are moving in a bench press.

Failure of a muscle is what's going to force it to grow. You have to get to failure every set or you are cheating yourself in the work out. Doing 6-8 reps and still being able to bang out additional reps is counter productive to what you are trying to accomplish. I think your under estimating the power of a push up. If you can do 30-40 push ups, and then failure is only an additional 10 when you drop to your knees; that shows you in itself that your chest is not only weak, but how much you are using all those secondary muscles (delts, tri's, etc) in lifting which is what is stopping you from getting the chest you want. Doing 10 push up's of your own weight completely relying on your pectoral's is "heavy" to your body- otherwise you'd be able to do a lot more than 10. The ideology behind "6-8 reps" for mass building is that you should reach complete failure at the end of the set to force growth. There's nothing that says you need to have 4 plates on a machine, or what the amount of weight it takes for that to occur. Even if you say screw the push up's; you still need to pre-exhaust your shoulders and tri's before you get on any machine or you still aren't going to get your pectorals to failure and force the growth you want. The easiest way to do that will be a standard bench press with light weight and high reps. then immediately move to the machine and take your chest to failure.

Good luck.

[Blackmambar]

Okay.. I'll jump in on this one as I'm pretty good at finding routines that cause vagina's to hurt for even the most swole cat in the gym. First off- put down the dumbbells and forget the bench. That's easy and you need some trickery involved with your boobies to get them to grow.....

Chest Routine based on pics:

#1 Push Up Split: These are standard push ups. Do as many as you can (to failure) and when you can barely do one more; drop your knees and do them like a chick would (knees on the ground). This will pre-exhaust all other muscles and when you drop your knees you will REALLY feel this in your chest as your pectorals have no choice but to take over completely to do the additonal reps. You want to do the knee push up's to failure also.

#2: Free Motion Dual Cable Cross Machine (google it). Set both arms down about 2-3 clicks from very bottom setting. You want the machine to look like an upside down V. Put 20-30 lbs on the machine, grab both handles and walk forward 2 feet. By now you should be facing away from the machine with handles in both arms; arms by your side (hips). Bend your knee's just a little tiny bit so they are not locked. Arms straight- lift up and in at the same time. Essentially, you are making an upside down V with your arms so they meet in front of you chest level. This is gonna hurt your boobies (not in a bad way).. word to the wise; start VERY low in weight. The biggest guys in the gym have a hard time with this exercise.. not kidding. Based on your pics- I'll be surprised if you can do 16-20 reps with 30 lbs total on the machine.

#3: Dips: Self explanatory. No dip machine assistance; your body weight to failure.

Actual Work Out (in order)

Push Up Split- 2 x failure
Free Motion Machine- 2 x 16 (16 should be failure, adjust weight accordingly starting at 30 lbs)
Dips- 2 x failure

Do one set of push up, then to free motion, to dips. Repeat twice.

Now, here's the fun part; NO REST. Your rest should be the time it takes to get from one work out area to the next; that's it. Let me know if you have any questions. If you don't have a free motion machine at your gym let me know and I can give you another way to do the same thing. You will not like this work out; but you'll see a lot of chest growth quickly. Promise.

Does anyone else have an opinion on the workout above, I am really tempted to give it a go, but I am a little afraid/skeptical about the high amount of reps involved and minimal rest time...

Also I fear the cable machine will always be taken when I need it while I'm running back and forth to different work out areas...

[dan991]

Does anyone else have an opinion on the workout above, I am really tempted to give it a go, but I am a little afraid/skeptical about the high amount of reps involved and minimal rest time...

Also I fear the cable machine will always be taken when I need it while I'm running back and forth to different work out areas...

In the thread started yesterday; you were talking about not being sure if you should cut or bulk. If you want to cut- high reps and no rest will help you achieve that as you're going to burn more calories. It also builds strength which will also add mass.

Well, lets see how weak your chest muscles really are. Go to the free motion machine and just do one set of #2. Can you do more than 20% of your body weight for 10-12 reps without cheating? If not- you really don't have much pectoral muscle and a majority of your previous routine was being done by secondary muscles. I've seen guys that can bench press 415 lbs not be able to do 50 lbs on this for 10 reps. They were big guys- just weak in the chest. Their "I'm huge" ego quickly deflated after that one, lol. That exercise removes the ability of your other muscles to be able to assist your chest. Try doing it and see where you are for chest strength completely isolated.

[kelkel]

Does anyone else have an opinion on the workout above, I am really tempted to give it a go, but I am a little afraid/skeptical about the high amount of reps involved and minimal rest time...

Also I fear the cable machine will always be taken when I need it while I'm running back and forth to different work out areas...

Just depends on your goals Dan. To me it appears to be more geared to fitness than building a maximum amount of muscle.

[Rusty11]

Kel and Turkish...great advice (coming from monsters who obviously know what they're doing..lol). I'm in the same position as the OP. So, I'll do some pre-fatigue flys. Do you guys concentrate on incline, flat, AND decline? Or does it not matter. Currently, my chest routine involves one exercise of each. And, of course i need to lose some of that bodyfat. Thanks to genetics, ALL my weight goes to my stomach and chest...nowhere else. I'm only 13-14% bf, but it's all in those spots. Weird. Thanks everyone.

[Turkish Juicer]

Do you guys concentrate on incline, flat, AND decline? Or does it not matter.

I often find myself doing incline dumbell flies since I believe upper-chest development has the priority.

However, I won't go higher than 35 degrees on the bench when I do incline dumbell flies strictly because delts are already involved in this particular exercise no matter how much you try isolate your pecs, there is no point in getting them involved ant further by making the angle higher.

[kelkel]

I often find myself doing incline dumbell flies since I believe upper-chest development has the priority.

However, I won't go higher than 35 degrees on the bench when I do incline dumbell flies strictly because delts are already involved in this particular exercise no matter how much you try isolate your pecs, there is no point in getting them involved ant further by making the angle higher.

Agreed.

[losieloos]

The reason you felt thay way after working out on machines is because you said yourself you only train with free weights for chest, of course its going to give you a different sensation.just do a lil bit of both dont do the same thing week after week.

[dj erk15]

Lots of solid posts in this thread. Good info.