Sling shot

[Sfla80]

So I have been reading and asking question on Ronnie's thread. He talks about keeping cycles to 8 weeks and usually sling shots them. I understand the whys and the how's. even proposed a cycle on the thread and he fined tuned it for me.

But my question to all the members here is what would be the pros and cons of doing a sling shot.

Cycle would be

1-8 test e 500wk
1-8 anavar 80-100mg Ed
9-10 test e 200wk
11-18 test e 500wk
12-18 winny 50mg Ed
18-20 test e 200wk

Hcg 500wk 1-22
Ldex .25 eod. 1-22
Liv 52 and nac on cycle.

Nolva 40-20-20-20
Clomid 100-50-50-50

I'm not by any means set on doing this. Would like to hear opinions on the pros and cons. I have the gear to do this but not sure if it is smart thing

[MistaHaze]

So I have been reading and asking question on Ronnie's thread. He talks about keeping cycles to 8 weeks and usually sling shots them. I understand the whys and the how's. even proposed a cycle on the thread and he fined tuned it for me.

But my question to all the members here is what would be the pros and cons of doing

Cycle would be

1-8 test e 500wk
1-8 anavar 80-100mg Ed
9-10 test e 200wk
11-18 test e 500wk
12-18 winny 50mg Ed
18-20 test e 200wk

Hcg 500wk 1-22
Ldex .25 eod. 1-22
Liv 52 and nac on cycle.

Nolva 40-20-20-20
Clomid 100-50-50-50

I'm not by any means set on doing this. Would like to hear opinions on the pros and cons. I have the gear to do this but not sure if it is smart thing

I was also curious about this myself. It was an interesting read. It seems it would only benefit those who wish to make a career out of competitive bodybuilding.

[panntastic]

I thin you've misinterpreted the whole idea

Running 8 weeks test e @ 500mg isn't going to do anything

It's about running high doses for short periods of time coming off for 2 weeks then hitting it hard again.

Say if your average cycle was 500mg for 10-12 weeks you would bump this up to say 1g a week for 8 weeks

(Figures are not exact so don't quote me please. Illustration purposes only)

Come down to 250mg for 2 weeks and then ramp up again

[Sfla80]

I thin you've misinterpreted the whole idea

Running 8 weeks test e @ 500mg isn't going to do anything

It's about running high doses for short periods of time coming off for 2 weeks then hitting it hard again.

Say if your average cycle was 500mg for 10-12 weeks you would bump this up to say 1g a week for 8 weeks

(Figures are not exact so don't quote me please. Illustration purposes only)

Come down to 250mg for 2 weeks and then ramp up again

Understood, and yeah u r right maybe I did misunderstand. But I did purpose it to him, and he adjusted it. Seems to advanced anyways for me. Lol.

[panntastic]

Understood, and yeah u r right maybe I did misunderstand. But I did purpose it to him, and he adjusted it. Seems to advanced anyways for me. Lol.

It's not a novice thing that's for sure

[Capebuffalo]

It is a long time health commitment and concern. If you are on trt or want to be then it is for you. Long term goals. Not for the recreational bodybuilder IMO.With specific goals you have to weigh the possible long term effects against them. Risk will equal reward but is the reward worth the risk?

[600@50]

I agree with Cape that this is NOT for the recreational lifter. But if you compete and are on TRT then the sling shot method is the way to go. It is a life long commitment once you start.

[snowblowjoe]

Imo you must not want to have children or live past 40 without major health issues if you do the cycle. But I am completely ignorant haven't done the hard research because just thinking about it makes me cringe

[OnTheSauce]

Imo you must not want to have children or live past 40 without major health issues if you do the cycle. But I am completely ignorant haven't done the hard research because just thinking about it makes me cringe

Live past 40 without major health issues? Oh really?

[snowblowjoe]

Patrick like I said I'm ignorant. There might be a way to do it healthy and not harmful and all that jazz but I just can't see it being possible

[OnTheSauce]

Patrick like I said I'm ignorant. There might be a way to do it healthy and not harmful and all that jazz but I just can't see it being possible

So one cycle like that a year will send you to the grave at 40? Ppl run 16 week cycles all the time

[Tron3219]

I agree with Patrick to an extent. It would b harder to recover from doing two blast one cruise (18 weeks), but is possible with aggressive pct. however definitely not recommended for someone that knows very little in regards to aas

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

[OnTheSauce]

Even if it sent you to trt, I don't consider that major health issues. You can be a healthy male on trt

[snowblowjoe]

I wasn't talking 16 weeks I was talking blasting and cruising for life and yes you can be healthy on to TRT but that gets so expensive in knowing with bloodwork doctors visits prescription pickups etc etc

[panntastic]

So one cycle like that a year will send you to the grave at 40? Ppl run 16 week cycles all the time

Thing is its not one cycle its a lifestyle choice
It's 8 on 2 off (low dose) and repeat until desired results are met.
It can't be compared to a long cycle its completely different

[The Titan99]

Imo you must not want to have children or live past 40 without major health issues if you do the cycle. But I am completely ignorant haven't done the hard research because just thinking about it makes me cringe

This is just ridiculous! I'm 48, been running Ron's protocol for years and I'm healthier in all ways, including bloodwork, than I've been in 25 years. As far as having children, check out this pic. This was in the middle of a blast, after about 3 years of running Ron's STS. This kind of statement reminds me of people saying AAS make you dick shrink...

I agree with Patrick to an extent. It would b harder to recover from doing two blast one cruise (18 weeks), but is possible with aggressive pct. however definitely not recommended for someone that knows very little in regards to aas.

-Chomp Chomp Chomp-Clink Clink Clink-

Ron recommends it. I consider him one of the top people in this game at this point in time. Sure there are always risks, but with the proper use of HCG and current PCT, you have every chance of recovery.

In short, Ron's the man as far as I'm concerned, you'll not find anyone who will say any different on here or anywhere else. A lot of very smart guy's like to do thing's different ways and a lot of Vets like to advise inexperienced guy's with the most conservative methods around mainly as damage control. Same reason Obama doesn't want anyone to have a gun. Here's me before Ron and after Ron. Now let's hear about health...

[stackedbro]

Imo you must not want to have children or live past 40 without major health issues if you do the cycle. But I am completely ignorant haven't done the hard research because just thinking about it makes me cringe

Gonna have to agree

[The Titan99]

Gonna have to agree

Even in the face of completely contradictory evidence? Opinionated or informed?

[snowblowjoe]

How you look on the outside has nothing to do with the effects on the inside of your body.

[panntastic]

Titan what a transformation man well done

[marcus300]

Staying on cycle for 20 weeks will have consequences if you think the risks are worth trying then give it a try but for me running long cycles never agreed with me, I much prefer doing shorter cycle linked to a pre cycle prime which would give me more gains than any long cycle, less sides and are far more maintainable. Sling shot is for the advance competitor who isn't concerned about being on trt for life. There isn't one way what suit everyone you need to find out what compounds you respond best to and how your body responds to sides when staying on cycle for long periods of time, there is a massive down side to staying on cycle for a long time if your not already on trt.

[panntastic]

Staying on cycle for 20 weeks will have consequences if you think the risks are worth trying then give it a try but for me running long cycles never agreed with me, I much prefer doing shorter cycle linked to a pre cycle prime which would give me more gains than any long cycle, less sides and are far more maintainable. Sling shot is for the advance competitor who isn't concerned about being on trt for life. There isn't one way what suit everyone you need to find out what compounds you respond best to and how your body responds to sides when staying on cycle for long periods of time, there is a massive down side to staying on cycle for a long time if your not already on trt.

Wise words once again should be fully noted

If any younger members read about sling shot or blast and cruise they should know the full ins and outs because its far more detrimental than just cycling

[The Titan99]

Titan what a transformation man well done

Thanks Man. We all know it was more than just the AAS. 75% diet!!!

How you look on the outside has nothing to do with the effects on the inside of your body.

I do bloodwork every 3 months and get full physical examinations every 6 months. I check my BP daily. How do you gauge your health?

If I wanted to know the pro's and con's of STS, I'd think you'd ask Ron. It's only partly to do with AAS. It involves training periodization, light and heavy weights as well as rep changes, set volume rotation, protein and carb cycling etc.

It is an exceptional training system with or without AAS. Especially for older guys with joint problems or guy's dancing down the line of over training.

[Capebuffalo]

This is just ridiculous! I'm 48, been running Ron's protocol for years and I'm healthier in all ways, including bloodwork, than I've been in 25 years. As far as having children, check out this pic. This was in the middle of a blast, after about 3 years of running Ron's STS. This kind of statement reminds me of people saying AAS make you dick shrink...
Ron recommends it. I consider him one of the top people in this game at this point in time. Sure there are always risks, but with the proper use of HCG and current PCT, you have every chance of recovery.

In short, Ron's the man as far as I'm concerned, you'll not find anyone who will say any different on here or anywhere else. A lot of very smart guy's like to do thing's different ways and a lot of Vets like to advise inexperienced guy's with the most conservative methods around mainly as damage control. Same reason Obama doesn't want anyone to have a gun. Here's me before Ron and after Ron. Now let's hear about health...

Holy Damn man. That is a complete body and life change. What was the time between those two pictures? Nicely done.

[The Titan99]

Holy Damn man. That is a complete body and life change. What was the time between those two pictures? Nicely done.

About 20 months I think, but I can't swear to it. I was experimenting with the 20 beer a day, 2 racks of spare ribs diet then... I wouldn't recommend it...

[Capebuffalo]

About 20 months I think, but I can't swear to it. I was experimenting with the 20 beer a day, 2 racks of spare ribs diet then... I wouldn't recommend it...

Less than 2 yrs? Wow. Amazing.

[OnTheSauce]

I do bloodwork every 3 months and get full physical examinations every 6 months. I check my BP daily. How do you gauge your health?

But your insides have rotted, u didn't know?

[snowblowjoe]

I do the same as you to check my health I wasn't saying you were in bad health I'm saying just because you look healthy on the outside that doesn't inherently mean you don't have any problems on the inside

[OnTheSauce]

I wasn't saying you were in bad health

That's exactly what u said. That there would be MAJOR health issues

[snowblowjoe]

There's always exceptions. Major health issues is a generalization.

[OnTheSauce]

You honestly think a 20 week sling shot cycle is so much more powerful and damaging than a normal 16 week cycle that someone will have major health problems by age 40? Seriously?

[snowblowjoe]

Dude Patrick how many times I have to tell you I'm not talking about 16 or 20 week cycles I did too 12 week cycles back to back myself without any ill effects and those were my first two cycles ever. I'm talking about people that blast and cruise for the remainder of their lives I'm talking years and decades

[OnTheSauce]

This thread is about a 20 week sling shot. To which u replied he would have serious health effects. Im not twisting your words around. Go back and read the OP and your response.

[snowblowjoe]

Granted I can see how that didn't explain myself well. By cycle I meant blast and cruise cycle for years and years

[The Titan99]

Alright, rather than parroting something you heard somewhere here's a PCT protocol that restores the VAST majority of hypogonadal men (due to steroid abuse) after being shut down for 52 or more weeks!! Even years.

Aggressive PCT (shutdown for 16-52+ weeks)

wk 1-8 Tamox 20mg/ED (40mg/ED first 7 days)
wk 1-8 Tore 60mg/ED (120mg/ED first 14 days, 100mg/ED next 7 days)
*HCG 250ius 2-3 times/wk (on cycle, every 8-10 weeks take a 2-3 week break [E2/PgR])
*HCG should also be ramped to 500ius 14-21 days from PCT
*Aromasin 10mg/EOD (on cycle)



This is one of the most interesting papers I have seen on long term use and recovery.




STREET C, SCALLY MC. Pharmaceutical Intervention of Anabolic Steroid Induced
Hypogonadism - Our Success at Restoration of the HPG Axis. Medicine and Science in Sports
and Exercise 2000;32(5)Suppl.


High-dose anabolic androgenic steroid (AAS) administration results in hypogonadotropic
hypogonadism (HH). Physical manifestations can include one or more of the following:
depression, decreased sexual desire, impotence, feelings of apathy, testicular atrophy, and loss of
muscle mass and strength. Due to feedback inhibition, laboratory values drop well below
established physiologic norms: luteinizing hormone (LH) >3.6 IU/L, follicle stimulating
hormone (FSH) >2.25 IU/L, and testosterone (T) >300 ng/dL. A search of the literature reveals
an absence of studies dealing specifically with AAS induced HH, and restoration of normal
endocrine function. We report on two interesting cases of AAS using bodybuilders who were
brought out of the hypogonadal state. Blood samples were taken in the morning for both subjects
and analyzed using chemiluminescence (Quest Diagnostics, Irvine, TX). Post-therapy samples
were taken 15 days after the last hCG injection.

Case 1: 6'0" 206 lbs. 33 yr old Caucasian male
with a 10+ year history of steroid self-administration for bodybuilding and powerlifting. By his
own admission he was a "heavy" user, taking from 500 mg/wk to 2+ grams/wk. Pre-treatment
values: LH < 1.0 IU/L, T 191 ng/dL. One course of therapy (32 days) was given: 2,500 IU of
hCG every 4 days (8 injections total), 50 mg clomiphene bid and 10 mg tamoxifen qd. Despite
massive drug use patient was an exceptionally good responder. Post-treatment values: LH 5.2
IU/L, T 1072 ng/dL.

Case 2: 5'10" 184 lbs 36 yr old Caucasian male with a 2 yr history of
continuous nandrolone use (200-400 mg/wk). Pre-values: LH < 1.0 IU/L, T 45 ng/dL.

Treat 1
(32 days): 2,500 IU hCG every 4 d (8 total), clomiphene (50 mg bid) and arimidex (1 mg qd).
Post-values: LH < 1.0 IU/L, T 38 ng/dL.

Treat 2 (60 days): 5,000 IU hCG every 4 days (4 inj
total) followed by 2,500 IU hCG every 4 d (4 inj total), clomiphene (50 mg bid) and tamoxifen
(10 mg qd). Post-values: LH > 1.4 IU/L, T 63 ng/dL.

Treat 3 (32 days): 5,000 IU hCG qod (6 inj
total) followed by 2,500 IU hCG qod (6 inj total) given simultaneously with menotropins 150 IU
qod (6 inj total), clomiphene (50 mg bid) and tamoxifen (10 mg bid). Post-values: LH 9.8 IU/L,
T 507 ng/dL.

Restoration of the HPG axis, even in severe cases of hypogonadism, is possible
with combined therapies and careful monitoring of the patient. With continued popularity of
these drugs, long-term androgen deficiency is a health concern for former AAS users. Further
research is needed in this area.



So there is hope for those that have totally abused AAS for "years" or been on HRT and wish to recover.

There's also this...

Treatment of anabolic-androgenic steroid dependence: Emerging evidence and its implications.

Kanayama G, Brower KJ, Wood RI, Hudson JI, Pope HG Jr.

Biological Psychiatry Laboratory, McLean Hospital, Belmont, MA, USA.
Abstract

Currently, few users of anabolic -androgenic steroids (AAS) seek substance abuse treatment. But this picture may soon change substantially, because illicit AAS use did not become widespread until the 1980s, and consequently the older members of this AAS-using population - those who initiated AAS as youths in the 1980s - are only now reaching middle age. Members of this group, especially those who have developed AAS dependence, may therefore be entering the age of risk for cardiac and psychoneuroendocrine complications sufficient to motivate them for substance abuse treatment. We suggest that this treatment should address at least three etiologic mechanisms by which AAS dependence might develop. First, individuals with body image disorders such as "muscle dysmorphia" may become dependent on AAS for their anabolic effects; these body image disorders may respond to psychological therapies or pharmacological treatments. Second, AAS suppress the male hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis via their androgenic effects, potentially causing hypogonadism during AAS withdrawal. Men experiencing prolonged dysphoric effects or frank major depression from hypogonadism may desire to resume AAS, thus contributing to AAS dependence. AAS-induced hypogonadism may require treatment with human chorionic gonadotropin or clomiphene to reactivate neuroendocrine function, and may necessitate antidepressant treatments in cases of depression inadequately responsive to endocrine therapies alone. Third, human and animal evidence indicates that AAS also possess hedonic effects, which likely promote dependence via mechanisms shared with classical addictive drugs, especially opioids. Indeed, the opioid antagonist naltrexone blocks AAS dependence in animals. By inference, pharmacological and psychosocial treatments for human opioid dependence might also benefit AAS-dependent individuals."

OK, sorry for the copy and paste fest, and I don't want to say this as a free pass to some of the new, the young, or the irresponsible, but the 20 weeks cycles that Ron proposes aren't the equivalent of driving your car off a cliff.

[OnTheSauce]

Nolva and torem work very well together

[The Titan99]

Nolva and torem work very well together

Yea, Torem is better than clomid by far IMO.

[Capebuffalo]

This thread is about a 20 week sling shot. To which u replied he would have serious health effects. Im not twisting your words around. Go back and read the OP and your response.

I wasn't thinking 20 weeks. My sling shot is 8 on 2 off and changing esters for quiet a while longer than 20 weeks. That's why I commented on not for the rec. user. 20 weeks I would expect a full recovery. 24 months not so much.

[Sfla80]

This thread turned sideways. But kinda got the info I needed. Was mainly curious because when Ronnie talks about receptors burning out after 8 wks. So since I had the gear and wanted to get everything I could out of this cycle I was interested in the pros and cons.

Sling shot is definitely not in my future. But was a thought.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Patrick like I said I'm ignorant. There might be a way to do it healthy and not harmful and all that jazz but I just can't see it being possible

You obviously have not read through my thread!