Hard to believe that the Industry will no longer be able to sell prohormones!!

[system admin]

I think I may be late to the party when it comes to this information, but I just found out that both the house and senate passed the new law and will be signed by Obama in the next few days. What do you guys think about that?

From what I read, the bill will be signed in no later than 8 days (10 days for the president to sign OR veto after both houses pass bill)

This is going to DESTROY 80% (Mostly the smaller brands) of the supplement companies out there because most are only making money due to their lines of Designer Steroids and Pro Hormones. Lets face it... you cant make money these days on vitamins, protein, or creatine due to those things being lost leaders for 95% of all companies.

[trikydik]

Govtrack.us gives this a 57% chance of being signed.

[system admin]

Why would the president NOT sign this bill? The vote was 100% unanimous in both houses and the president doesn't care about steroid supplements. Democrats still run the senate and republicans dont take over till January.

[Honkey_Kong]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a jump in the sales of orals on the black market. Government bans on products has never caused the demand to cease. And if there is a will, there will be a way.

The only thing this is going to do is make millionaires out of real bad people. The war on drugs has proven to be a total failure.

[lovbyts]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a jump in the sales of orals on the black market. Government bans on products has never caused the demand to cease. And if there is a will, there will be a way.

The only thing this is going to do is make millionaires out of real bad people. The war on drugs has proven to be a total failure.

Hmmm might be a good idea to stock up now to buy low, sell high later? Yeah I always have good ideas like this but never do them. To much to risk on my part but I'm sure there are those who will do it and profit from it.

[lovbyts]

I'm also curious, what category does the sponsors link at the top fall into? Pro-hormones or supplements? Not the peptide listing but the other one. Peptides might be next though.

[system admin]

The advertisers (ME) are anabolic supplements that are alternatives to steroids. I have NEVER and would NEVER put steroids in the products I sell to young adults.

The new laws wont make guys any more wealthy than it did when they sold these products "legally" in stores or online. In fact, It will be much much harder to sell those products without getting busted by the DEA. If someone is going to sell prohormones, they may as well start selling steroids because they are now both one in the same. Besides, injectable steroids and even dianabol tabs are MUCH safer than prohormones. If I am going to risk getting MASSIVE fines and go to jail... I would rather be selling the real thing.

I wonder what all of the guys who bought fancy houses, expensive cars, and who got used to living the good life while selling prohormones / designer steroids are going to do now that all of that will come to an end. You would have to think they knew this was coming right?

Peptides is coming next... I would bet anything on that.

Lets face it guys, WE are the industry that doesnt effect political votes in a negative way when they attack us. In fact, due to how small our industry is, (relatively speaking) attacking our industry HELPS politicians because athletic jock types who use steroids are evil and are hated by many of those in power for childhood reasons. "Meat heads, bodybuilders, jocks, etc..." are the bad guys and it makes the general public feel great when our industry gets attacked. Legalizing pot makes 40-50% of the population happy... Legalizing steroids makes less than 1% happy and due to all of the demonization that comes with steroids, it will be a long LONG time for our country to get over the negative stigma associated with it. I dont care if news reports came out and said that testosterone and steroid use made you healthier and helped you live longer... our dim witted society will keep their heads buried in the sand and neglect the facts.

I dont think I posted this above, but these new laws will NO LONGER be upheld by the FDA. Now, they will be enforced by the DEA and that is very very scary.

Guys, we are under attack and its not going to get better until it gets worse. Look at the bullshit Low Testosterone Treatment went through this last year. No matter what medical evidence says... people dont want to hear how good it is. We have a long road ahead of us.

[system admin]

Hmmm might be a good idea to stock up now to buy low, sell high later? Yeah I always have good ideas like this but never do them. To much to risk on my part but I'm sure there are those who will do it and profit from it.

Not worth the risk man. I bet you the DEA will make some really bad examples out of some people to set the bar. The fines are set by congress and if you are going to take on all of that risk... you would be better off selling steroids (although I do not recommend that)

[system admin]

I wouldn't be surprised if there is a jump in the sales of orals on the black market. Government bans on products has never caused the demand to cease. And if there is a will, there will be a way.

The only thing this is going to do is make millionaires out of real bad people. The war on drugs has proven to be a total failure.

Black Market Steroid Sources... THOSE are the ones that are going to WIN once this takes place in the coming days. You are right though... this will do nothing but make it harder to get these drugs, but it will do nothing to stop it and I dont think it will hardly slow it down. I DO think this will prevent a LOT of the 16-20 year olds from taking these drugs since you cant just go to GNC or Bodybuilding.com and buy them with your credit card and 2 day shipping.

[almostgone]

The advertisers (ME) are anabolic supplements that are alternatives to steroids. I have NEVER and would NEVER put steroids in the products I sell to young adults.

The new laws wont make guys any more wealthy than it did when they sold these products "legally" in stores or online. In fact, It will be much much harder to sell those products without getting busted by the DEA. If someone is going to sell prohormones, they may as well start selling steroids because they are now both one in the same. Besides, injectable steroids and even dianabol tabs are MUCH safer than prohormones. If I am going to risk getting MASSIVE fines and go to jail... I would rather be selling the real thing.

I wonder what all of the guys who bought fancy houses, expensive cars, and who got used to living the good life while selling prohormones / designer steroids are going to do now that all of that will come to an end. You would have to think they knew this was coming right?

Peptides is coming next... I would bet anything on that.

Lets face it guys, WE are the industry that doesnt effect political votes in a negative way when they attack us. In fact, due to how small our industry is, (relatively speaking) attacking our industry HELPS politicians because athletic jock types who use steroids are evil and are hated by many of those in power for childhood reasons. "Meat heads, bodybuilders, jocks, etc..." are the bad guys and it makes the general public feel great when our industry gets attacked. Legalizing pot makes 40-50% of the population happy... Legalizing steroids makes less than 1% happy and due to all of the demonization that comes with steroids, it will be a long LONG time for our country to get over the negative stigma associated with it. I dont care if news reports came out and said that testosterone and steroid use made you healthier and helped you live longer... our dim witted society will keep their heads buried in the sand and neglect the facts.

I dont think I posted this above, but these new laws will NO LONGER be upheld by the FDA. Now, they will be enforced by the DEA and that is very very scary.

Guys, we are under attack and its not going to get better until it gets worse. Look at the bullshit Low Testosterone Treatment went through this last year. No matter what medical evidence says... people dont want to hear how good it is. We have a long road ahead of us.

That is very f-in scary due to the scope of their investigative "powers".

[Honkey_Kong]

Black Market Steroid Sources... THOSE are the ones that are going to WIN once this takes place in the coming days. You are right though... this will do nothing but make it harder to get these drugs, but it will do nothing to stop it and I dont think it will hardly slow it down. I DO think this will prevent a LOT of the 16-20 year olds from taking these drugs since you cant just go to GNC or Bodybuilding.com and buy them with your credit card and 2 day shipping.

Those were the guys I was referring to as the "real bad people." But I don't even think it'll stop the 16-20 year olds. I mean how difficult is it to find a source (good or bad) on the internet? It might be an inconvenience, but it's not going to deter any of them except the laziest.

The other thing is those prohormone sources as much as I hate prohormones and think they're shit, you at least relatively knew what you were getting when you bought them. When you buy a bottle of dianabol off the internet from some UGL, there is no guarantee that it's dosed right or that you're even getting what you think it's supposed to be.

[system admin]

You know whats more scary? This law NOW puts the burden of proof (that the supplement is NOT a steroidal substance) onto the seller, manufacture, or user of the product. In other words, it USED to be that they had to take a sample of the prohormone, test it, and then add it to the banned list. NOW, none of that is the case. If the DEA finds that your product is similar in molecular structure, pharmacological effects, or you suggest that you can get steroid or testosterone type effects and your product is NOT an herb or botanical substance, you will be arrested and YOU must prove that what you have is not a drug.

The supplement companies that have been making millions of dollars selling these products have been YELLING "Fu&* YOU" to the FDA for almost a decade and many of the smaller companies who dont know ANYTHING about these products or the legality of them would blatantly post that these products used to be steroids or that they were tested and shown to be many times more anabolic than certain other steroids.

This crap is exactly why we got hammered this hard by the new laws and you can bet your ass, the same is going to happen with SARMS and other peptides. I cant say when, but I can tell you that WE are the industry that is under attack because to those in power, we are simply insignificant freaks. Im very nervous for our entire industry.

[lovbyts]

That's more why and what I was asking about the supplements sold here. They (DEA) could just decide because of the name they are prohormones and as you said the burden is on the manufacture.

Yes I agree, it's going to get bad in a lot of ways, not just DEA/Prohormone situation. We are definitely becoming a government run/socialist state.

[system admin]

Those were the guys I was referring to as the "real bad people." But I don't even think it'll stop the 16-20 year olds. I mean how difficult is it to find a source (good or bad) on the internet? It might be an inconvenience, but it's not going to deter any of them except the laziest.

One thing you have to keep in mind is that YOU are internet savvy and know where to find steroids. MANY (I mean the majority) do NOT know the first place to look to find steroids and IF they do wind up on a website or forum that pushes steroids, they are overwhelmed and very skeptical. When you know your living room and the lights are off, you can still run through it without bumping into things. What I mean by that is that once you take the time to learn how to get and find drugs online and you make a few mistakes, you will know exactly what you are doing. But, many people get spooked and get really worried about drug quality, legal issues, or are afraid to get ripped off and it WILL deter a lot of people from buying steroids.

With that said... there will be a LOT of people who go through those steps and will buy online or through a local dealer, but those hurdles will make it harder and will prevent many from deciding to go another way.

[system admin]

That's more why and what I was asking about the supplements sold here. They (DEA) could just decide because of the name they are prohormones and as you said the burden is on the manufacture.

Yes I agree, it's going to get bad in a lot of ways, not just DEA/Prohormone situation. We are definitely becoming a government run/socialist state.

The reason why they can NOT say that about the products advertised here is that NONE of products can be compared to ANYTHING but herbal or botanical supplements. (look below) The formulas were designed to provide the BEST and most effective formulas possible that contain ingredients that do NOT cross the line and without causing harm to the user which makes them TRULY LEGAL. Advertisers will be one of the few that do not get hit by these new laws.


Look at this and READ CLOSELY

(i) Subject to clause (ii), a drug or hormonal substance
(other than estrogens, progestins, corticosteroids, and
dehydroepiandrosterone) that is not listed in subparagraph (A) and is
derived from, or has a chemical structure substantially similar to, 1
or more anabolic steroids listed in subparagraph (A) shall be
considered to be an anabolic steroid for purposes of this Act if--
``(I) the drug or substance has been created or manufactured
with the intent of producing a drug or other substance that
either--
``(aa) promotes muscle growth; or
``(bb) otherwise causes a pharmacological effect similar to
that of testosterone; or
``(II) the drug or substance has been, or is intended to be,
marketed or otherwise promoted in any manner suggesting that
consuming it will promote muscle growth or any other
pharmacological effect similar to that of testosterone.
``(ii) A substance shall not be considered to be a drug or hormonal
substance for purposes of this subparagraph if it--
``(I) is--
``(aa) an herb or other botanical;
``(bb) a concentrate, metabolite, or extract of, or a
constituent isolated directly from, an herb or other botanical;
or
``(cc) a combination of 2 or more substances described in
item (aa) or (bb);
``(II) is a dietary ingredient for purposes of the Federal
Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.); and
``(III) is not anabolic or androgenic.
``(iii) In accordance with section 515(a), any person claiming the
benefit of an exemption or exception under clause (ii) shall bear the
burden of going forward with the evidence with respect to such
exemption or exception.''.

List of ADDED substances:


subparagraph (A)--
(A) in clause (xlix), by striking ``and'' at the end;
(B) by redesignating clause (xlx) as clause (lxxv); and
(C) by inserting after clause (xlix) the following:
``(l) 5a-Androstan-3,6,17-trione;
``(li) 6-bromo-androstan-3,17-dione;
``(lii) 6-bromo-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17-dione;
``(liii) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol;
``(liv) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol;
``(lv) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en-3-one;
``(lvi) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3,11-
dione;
``(lvii) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol;
``(lviii) 2a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one;
``(lix) 2a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5b-androstan-3-one;
``(lx) 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxi) [3,2-c]-furazan-5a-androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxii) 3b-hydroxy-estra-4,9,11-trien-17-one;
``(lxiii) 17a-methyl-androst-2-ene-3,17b-diol;
``(lxiv) 17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol;
``(lxv) Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione;
``(lxvi) 18a-Homo-3-hydroxy-estra-2,5(10)-dien-17-one;
``(lxvii) 6a-Methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17-dione;
``(lxviii) 17a-Methyl-androstan-3-hydroxyimine-17b-ol;
``(lxix) 17a-Methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxx) 17b-Hydroxy-androstano[2,3-d]isoxazole;
``(lxxi) 17b-Hydroxy-androstano[3,2-c]isoxazole;
``(lxxii) 4-Hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3,17-dione[3,2-c]pyrazole-5a-
androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxxiii) [3,2-c]pyrazole-androst-4-en-17b-ol;
``(lxxiv) [3,2-c]pyrazole-5a-androstan-17b-ol;

[Metalject]

Why would the president NOT sign this bill? The vote was 100% unanimous in both houses and the president doesn't care about steroid supplements. Democrats still run the senate and republicans dont take over till January.

If he doesn't sign it, my guess would be because there's something else in the bill that is unrelated to steroids and supplements. Most all bills have numerous other items attached to them that have nothing to do with the actual bill.

But I'm sure he will sign it - democrats, you know the "party of tolerance" is responsible for most of the anti-steroid laws in the U.S.

1. The Controlled Substance Act, passed 1970, introduced by democrat Harley O. Staggers
2. Anti Drug Abuse Act (heavily steroid), passed 1988, introduced by democrat Thomas Foley
3. Methandrosterolone Act of 1988, failed, introduced by republican Daniel Lungren
4. Anabolic Steroid Restriction Act of 1989, failed, introduced by democrat Pete Stark
5. The Steroid Control Act of 1990, passed 1990, introduced by democrat Joe Biden
6. Steroid Trafficking Act of 1990, failed, introduced by democrat Joe Biden
7. Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1990 (heavily steroid), failed, introduced by democrat Jack Brooks
8. Anabolic Steroids Enforcement Act of 1991, failed, introduced by democrat William Hughes
9. Fair Play in Sports Act of 2002, failed, introduced by democrat Jim Matheson
10. Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2003, failed, introduced by democrat Joe Biden
11. Dietary Supplement Act of 2003, failed, introduced by democrat Dick Durbin
12. The Steroid Control Act of 2004, passed 2004, introduced by democrat Joe Biden
13. Anabolic Steroid Corrections Act of 2004, failed, introduced by democrat Joe Biden
14. Dehydroepiandrosterone Act of 2006, failed, introduced by republican John Sweeney
15. Clean Sports Act of 2010, failed, introduced by democrat Byron Dorgan
16. Dietary Supplement Full Implementation and Enforcement Act of 2010, failed, introduced by democrat Tom Harkin
18. Designer Steroid Control Act of 2010, failed, introduced by democrat Arlen Specter
19. Designer Steroid Control Act of 2012, failed, introduced by democrat Sheldon Whitehouse
20. Designer Steroid Control Act of 2014, passed 2014, introduced by republican Joseph Pitts

Out of the last 20 steroid related bills to be presented, 16 have been introduced by Democrats, 5 of which were introduced by Joe Biden including the major 1990 & 2004 Acts. Keep voting in those liberals, they have your true liberty and freedom in mind.

[lovbyts]

Joseph Pitts is just a Democrat in sheeps (Republicans) clothing.

[Metalject]

Joseph Pitts is just a Democrat in sheeps (Republicans) clothing.

Happens all the time. John McCain and Lindsey Graham are the kings of this.
There are still a few true republican politicians but overall the party hasn't existed since the mid-1990's, that's when it really started to fall apart. The progressive republicans are just as bad as the progressive democrats, they're just a little slower about it.

[Honkey_Kong]

Happens all the time. John McCain and Lindsey Graham are the kings of this.
There are still a few true republican politicians but overall the party hasn't existed since the mid-1990's, that's when it really started to fall apart. The progressive republicans are just as bad as the progressive democrats, they're just a little slower about it.

The problem with Democrats and Republicans (and Libertarians for that matter too) is that they're not there to represent their constituents (on in the case of the senate, the states they represent), they're there to represent the lobbyists that bribe them, their own private ventures and the people/corporations that make significant campaign contributions to both them and their party. I bet you if you go through the bill and look for who will benefit, it will be one of them.

It happened with NAFTA, the "affordable" health care act, etc etc.

[marcus300]

This is going to hurt many companies, wonder which direction they will pursue from now on to stay alive

[Times Roman]

I think I may be late to the party when it comes to this information, but I just found out that both the house and senate passed the new law and will be signed by Obama in the next few days. What do you guys think about that?

From what I read, the bill will be signed in no later than 8 days (10 days for the president to sign OR veto after both houses pass bill)

This is going to DESTROY 80% (Mostly the smaller brands) of the supplement companies out there because most are only making money due to their lines of Designer Steroids and Pro Hormones. Lets face it... you cant make money these days on vitamins, protein, or creatine due to those things being lost leaders for 95% of all companies.

I'll be real frank with you

And I have two minds on the subject

1) Again, due to my Libertarian philosophies, I do not believe it is governments proper role to interfere with legitimate commerce, so long as that commerce does not pose a threat to the population either through their business dealings or the product itself.

Having said that, we all know that the "Free Market" mechanism ONLY works well in the long term, and in the short term, many can die from products that are not safe, until some critical mass is reached and this particular product becomes a part of public awareness. The problem is the market is a global market, and this critical mass I'm referring to would be quite large, putting many at risk. The other issue is that these issues can be avoided, the "reaching critical mass before it reaches public awareness" by discontinuing that particular product prior to that happening and then switching to some other alternative, new yet equally a potential risk.

So to a certain extent, we need regulation here, regardless my Libertarian view point.

2) Many of these items are being marketed as "prohormones" when I personally feel they are NOT prohormones. I could be wrong, but I always felt a "PRO" hormone is a substance, such as andro or DHEA that is a precursor, or a building block, to the actual hormone itself. So many of these items are being falsely marketed as prohormones, when in fact, they are a cocktail of chemicals that stimulate the body in such a way so as to tease out certain reactions, without actually impacting the hormone system itself. It's like mixing arginine, creatine, caffeine, and a simple sugar into a cocktail and calling it a prohormone. Sure, the stim and the sugar will improve gym performance, and the arginine will help with the pump. But is it "REALLY" a prohormone simply because it is labeled as such? Sadly, the answer is NO

And because marketing departments are designed to modify consumer behavior, they are taught to think in terms of slogans and buzz words. People hear the catch phrase "PRO HORMONE" and it gets' their attention. And because so many newbs seem so desperate to try any/everything, all one has to do is put their shingle out there and to a certain extent, they will generate a certain revenue stream just because some people are willing to try anything.

So, to a certain extent, I'm a little put off by congress with this new pending legislation. But on the other hand, I think most of the product out there being sold as a "pro hormone" is bogus, and is doing more harm than good. These items are not being adequately tested for safety on sufficiently large populations, and the long term results of these products are not well understood.

Just my .02

[system admin]

Well said. The big issue here is that in the last two years, MOST of the new companies popping up are knowingly adding "steroids" to their products and calling them "prohormones". They are NOT prohormones, they are "Designer Steroids" and dont even need to convert once inside the body.

Everyone wants to get rich quick and that means that most will not research or know hardly ANYTHING about what they are doing before doing it. They simply look at another new company that is gaining traction and do exactly what they are doing. This means copying formulas of other products without knowing the first thing about the effects or dangers or even the legality of the substances.

I am a HUGE believer in small government, but when you have a bunch of idiots running wild in the streets and who value money over the health of people using their products, we need those people to be controlled. Unfortunately, controlling those idiots causes a ripple effect and puts more control on the people who are smart enough to govern themselves.

Go around the web and look at the ingredients of many of these "prohormones" and then go look at the written descriptions on the website. They tell the viewer straight up that these products are steroids and they brag about how potent it is or how closely it resembles "Tren" or Dbol. Dumb and VERY short sighted.

There will be a lot of BROKE ASS supplement company owners who had a very nice run at the good life and who probably didnt save a single dime in the process. I would hate to be the guy who made a million, blew it, didnt prepare for the inevitable and now I work at a car dealership selling Toyotas...

[trikydik]

List of ADDED substances:
subparagraph (A)--
(A) in clause (xlix), by striking ``and'' at the end;
(B) by redesignating clause (xlx) as clause (lxxv); and
(C) by inserting after clause (xlix) the following:
``(l) 5a-Androstan-3,6,17-trione;
``(li) 6-bromo-androstan-3,17-dione;
``(lii) 6-bromo-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17-dione;
``(liii) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol;
``(liv) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androst-4-ene-3b,17b-diol;
``(lv) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-en-3-one;
``(lvi) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-17b-hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3,11-
dione;
``(lvii) 4-chloro-17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol;
``(lviii) 2a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one;
``(lix) 2a,17a-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5b-androstan-3-one;
``(lx) 2a,3a-epithio-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxi) [3,2-c]-furazan-5a-androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxii) 3b-hydroxy-estra-4,9,11-trien-17-one;
``(lxiii) 17a-methyl-androst-2-ene-3,17b-diol;
``(lxiv) 17a-methyl-androsta-1,4-diene-3,17b-diol;
``(lxv) Estra-4,9,11-triene-3,17-dione;
``(lxvi) 18a-Homo-3-hydroxy-estra-2,5(10)-dien-17-one;
``(lxvii) 6a-Methyl-androst-4-ene-3,17-dione;
``(lxviii) 17a-Methyl-androstan-3-hydroxyimine-17b-ol;
``(lxix) 17a-Methyl-5a-androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxx) 17b-Hydroxy-androstano[2,3-d]isoxazole;
``(lxxi) 17b-Hydroxy-androstano[3,2-c]isoxazole;
``(lxxii) 4-Hydroxy-androst-4-ene-3,17-dione[3,2-c]pyrazole-5a-
androstan-17b-ol;
``(lxxiii) [3,2-c]pyrazole-androst-4-en-17b-ol;
``(lxxiv) [3,2-c]pyrazole-5a-androstan-17b-ol;

A question I have (I have never done a Prohormone nor any gear other than what has been prescribed)... is what were the benefits of the prohormone that you didnt get from gear? Was it that the Prohormone was legal version of gear? was it as effective? fewer side effects? easier to get... I see SO many suppliments out there saying they do this, or that, that for most of us, it is hard to weed the fact from the fiction...

[Venom]

A question I have (I have never done a Prohormone nor any gear other than what has been prescribed)... is what were the benefits of the prohormone that you didnt get from gear? Was it that the Prohormone was legal version of gear? was it as effective? fewer side effects? easier to get... I see SO many suppliments out there saying they do this, or that, that for most of us, it is hard to weed the fact from the fiction...

I believe the appeal to "Prohormones" or today's products which actually are indeed designer steroids is that one they are/were legal so people who didn't want to break the law felt they had an alternative to injectables and two they are in a capsule form which takes away from the process of injecting.

I have ran a few different prohormones in my day and to be honest there really are no benefit to them. Yes, I did gain size and strength and certain compounds did mimic injectables but the side effects that come along with prohormones were horrible. High BP, lethargy, potential gyno, ED and shut down issues, and much more.

The issue I always saw and that Times has mentioned is that these products are not regulated. I use to shop at a local supplement store where they sold prohormones. I would time after time see the owner sell 17 and 18 year old kids these prohormones without first trying to talk them out of buying them and secondly not offering any advice on a proper PCT.

The damage these products can do to a young adults endocrine system alone is a reason these products should at least be regulated.

[zempey]

Land of the free, eh guys? Better start doing something soon or the party will be over and will move up here next. REVOLUTION!!!

[Times Roman]

Well said. The big issue here is that in the last two years, MOST of the new companies popping up are knowingly adding "steroids" to their products and calling them "prohormones". They are NOT prohormones, they are "Designer Steroids" and dont even need to convert once inside the body.

Everyone wants to get rich quick and that means that most will not research or know hardly ANYTHING about what they are doing before doing it. They simply look at another new company that is gaining traction and do exactly what they are doing. This means copying formulas of other products without knowing the first thing about the effects or dangers or even the legality of the substances.

I am a HUGE believer in small government, but when you have a bunch of idiots running wild in the streets and who value money over the health of people using their products, we need those people to be controlled. Unfortunately, controlling those idiots causes a ripple effect and puts more control on the people who are smart enough to govern themselves.

Go around the web and look at the ingredients of many of these "prohormones" and then go look at the written descriptions on the website. They tell the viewer straight up that these products are steroids and they brag about how potent it is or how closely it resembles "Tren" or Dbol. Dumb and VERY short sighted.

There will be a lot of BROKE ASS supplement company owners who had a very nice run at the good life and who probably didnt save a single dime in the process. I would hate to be the guy who made a million, blew it, didnt prepare for the inevitable and now I work at a car dealership selling Toyotas...

I keep coming back to this, but in it's day, Andro was a pretty good PH. It provided a fairly decent benefit, and the sides were low. I think I purchased 100 grams for under $100 and I was on a steady diet of it for extended periods. No issues with BP, or any obvious detriments to common blood panels. No testicular shrinkage, no issues with ED or gyno. It was one of several times in my life with fairly low BF% and right at 250lbs. I was pretty happy with it TBH. That was something like, I don't know, maybe 15 years ago?

But think about it. It became a prohibited substance, which opened the door for lesser quality products to be marketed. With less benefit and higher risk of sides. When you get right down to it, some of the shit out there is fairly toxic with long term use.

So this whole fiasco was created by big brother government in the first place. Had they left well enough alone, we'd still have Andro, which is a fairly safe PH. But you cannot legislate away demand for a product. It's like a 9 headed Hydra. Chop off one head, and three more take it's place. We learned our lesson with alcohol, and it seems, possibly with marijuana. But some of the ignorant meatheads we have in congress? It seems they think they can resolve issues by creating law. But it is the "Law of Unintended Consequences" that they fail to consider.

So now they want to completely do away with PH. It makes you wonder what will replace it? Something of even less benefit and more risk of sides I'm sure.

Government is counter intuitive. A smart government realizes that it is the very people who are best positioned to make intelligent decisions, and therefore they shy away from being intrusive. Only an arrogant and naïve government can think it is smarter than the people that put them in office in the first place, and foolishly think they have better decisioning ability than the population at large.

[zempey]

Until the 90's steroids were legal in Canada, big brother stepped in and did away with them. Our governments are a mess, they do nothing but waste tax money and take away any hope of freedom we think we have. They are a corporation doing their part to enslave us in this Western culture. I want out, hopefully within the next ten years I will be somewhere else.

[system admin]

TR,

I have to say that when I started my first retail business, that year Androstendione hit the market and I sold a LOT of these products to young people. The side effects they had with this drug was HORRIBLE. In fact, I had a serious medical problem from Andro that sent me to the hospital.

After 2 weeks of using Andro, every time I ejaculated, I would ejaculate PURE BLOOD! I do not mean a little bit of blood color... I mean DEEP, RED BLOOD. Like I cut an artery in my arm and bleed. After going to the hospital, the doctor asked me what I was using and the only thing I had changed in my life was taking Androstendione. I obviously stopped immediately and within 2 days it went away.

Here is the kicker: My dumb young brain talked myself into trying ANDRO again once things cleared up because I thought MAYBE it was a fluke or MAYBE it was NOT the andro. (To be honest I did not want it to be andro because I wanted the gains) Once I started back on another brand of andro, the blood came back and I knew 100% that andro was the issue.

Andro totally ****ed up my prostate and I saw this with MANY people just like me. Also, the bitch tits and acne was OUT OF CONTROL with the users of it. Anyone pushing these onto young people without educating them is 100% criminal. People call me a "Scammer" for selling the products I do for NOT putting drugs or other harmful ingredients in them... I say "FINE." I will take being called a scammer ANYDAY over fuking up young people and providing them with extremely harmful drugs.

Bottom line, these drugs are no different than when GHB was sold in my retail shops. GHB was AWESOME for those of us who used it responsibly, but as with everything that is really good... people abused the hell out of it and ruined it for the rest of us. That is why things like this must be regulated. Many people are just to damn stupid to know any better or to research what they put into their bodies. I hate big government, but look closely at what is going on with the prohormones on the market. The drug pushers dont give two sh!ts about the health of our young people. At least with Anabolic Steroid use we an organized system where people look for different types of steroids and then come to places like steroid.com to research and discuss. Prohormones were pushed onto our young people WITHOUT educating them or even giving a damn to educate. That is the reason why all of this is happening and why the penalties are so serious.

I wonder how many people will have long term side effects? I will bet you anything it will be a MASSIVE number.

[kelkel]

I have never done a Prohormone nor any gear other than what has been prescribed

Me either.

After 2 weeks of using Andro, every time I ejaculated, I would ejaculate PURE BLOOD! I do not mean a little bit of blood color... I mean DEEP, RED BLOOD.

At the very moment I read that line I was shoveling in cherry yogurt. Thanks B!

[Venom]

Should be either today or tomorrow morning the president either will or will not sign this bill, the general impression is that he will indeed sign it.

[system admin]

Sorry about that Kel! hahaha!

I just wanted to make my point clear and I guess I truly did that


One more thing I would like to point out about this new law that I did not see before. It seems as though the FINES for selling not only prohormones, but ALSO steroids have just been set. By the information in this law, it now says that manufacturing will result in a fine of up to $500k per bottle! Also, if you are NOT the manufacture, but are a seller of prohormones and/or steroids, the fine is now up to $1000 per bottle. These fines are in concert WITH the criminal charge AND possible jail time!

Very crazy Gents. It seems that these prohormones not only created a sh!t storm for the prohormone market, but it also made the penalties for anabolic steroids MUCH greater.

Bc

[Hazard]

Sorry about that Kel! hahaha!

Don't be..... He liked it lol

[system admin]

:-) haha!

[Venom]

The bill has been signed

http://m.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo...slation?page=1

[BG]

you can bet your ass, the same is going to happen with SARMS and other peptides.

Im surprised they didnt fit it in this bill, I 100% agree, they are next.

[system admin]

BG,

I have been studying the crap out of this law and look at this below. They ALMOST covered ALL drugs like Sarms and peptides but ONE thing stopped it from happening. ONE tiny little sentence avoided THAT problem for now:


`(C)(i) Subject to clause (ii), a drug or hormonal substance (other than estrogens, progestins, corticosteroids, and dehydroepiandrosterone) that is not listed in subparagraph (A) and is derived from, or has a chemical structure substantially similar to, 1 or more anabolic steroids listed in subparagraph (A) shall be considered to be an anabolic steroid for purposes of this Act if--
`(I) the drug or substance has been created or manufactured with the intent of producing a drug or other substance that either--
`(aa) promotes muscle growth; or
`(bb) otherwise causes a pharmacological effect similar to that of testosterone; or
`(II) the drug or substance has been, or is intended to be, marketed or otherwise promoted in any manner suggesting that consuming it will promote muscle growth or any other pharmacological effect similar to that of testosterone.
`(ii) A substance shall not be considered to be a drug or hormonal substance for purposes of this subparagraph if it--
`(I) is--
`(aa) an herb or other botanical;
`(bb) a concentrate, metabolite, or extract of, or a constituent isolated directly from, an herb or other botanical; or
`(cc) a combination of 2 or more substances described in item (aa) or (bb);
`(II) is a dietary ingredient for purposes of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (21 U.S.C. 301 et seq.); and
`(III) is not anabolic or androgenic.


What I am trying to say is... Read that entire bit that I posted but leave out the part that I highlighted. IF they had not put that in there, ALL things would have been banned.

[system admin]

That shit is scary!

[BG]

No doubt !!