Been on TRT for 8 weeks now, went from feeling awesome to almost as bad as before TRT

[ks1234]

So, as I said, ive been on TRT for 8 weeks now. When I first started TRT I was feeling 9/10 but now im feeling terrible. My doc started me on 100mg of test cyp. 1x per week and 100iu of HGC 1x per week. I injected on tues morn for test and sat morn for HCG. I went to the doc for my 6 week checkup and my BW total test was 350 (now this was taken after noon on monday and I didnt get all of my HCG that sat bc I ran out so I only got 80iu) anyway, I told the doc I was feeling okay but I still felt fairly low at times. He upped my test to 120mg 1x a week. I really dont know what's going on... I feel absolutely terrible. On the days that I take my test shot, that day and the next day I feel pretty okay but then I crash, so like today (fri) I laid in bed for 2 hours before even attempting to get up. Then I take my HCG and I feel okay but i feel like it doesnt completely bring me out of the crash these last couple of weeks. I really dont know what to do, I thought upping my test by 20pct would have me feeling great (and it did the first 2 days) but it just seems to be getting worse and worse... I HATE feeling this way... Ive been so active the last 2 months (hitting the gym, going swimming, going to the lake, ACTUALLY HAVING SEX) but now its like it was before. Anyway, any advice you guys could give me would be GREATLY appreciated. Yall helped me before and I will post a link to my original thread if you want to read my beginning BW and stuff. Thanks in advance

Original thread
http://forums.steroid.com/hormone-re...me-i-fine.html


Edit- I also notice that I went from recovering after my workouts really well to being sore for days like I was before TRT and im starting to get increased joint pain again. I dont know if this matters but its something ive noticed the last week or so

[kelkel]

Patience. It takes time to adjust. Sometimes months unfortunately. It also sounds like you metabolize rather quickly and injecting half your dose twice weekly would help you here by keeping serum T levels more stable. When it comes to hcg is that the correct protocol he gave you? 100 iu's once per week? If so, that's useless. If injecting such a low amount it should be daily. Otherwise a normal dose is 250 iu's 2-3 times per week.

[ks1234]

Patience. It takes time to adjust. Sometimes months unfortunately. It also sounds like you metabolize rather quickly and injecting half your dose twice weekly would help you here by keeping serum T levels more stable. When it comes to hcg is that the correct protocol he gave you? 100 iu's once per week? If so, that's useless. If injecting such a low amount it should be daily. Otherwise a normal dose is 250 iu's 2-3 times per week.

Im sorry, I draw it to the 100 on the insulin syringe so I thought it was 100iu. Its actually 1000IU

[ks1234]

Patience. It takes time to adjust. Sometimes months unfortunately. It also sounds like you metabolize rather quickly and injecting half your dose twice weekly would help you here by keeping serum T levels more stable. When it comes to hcg is that the correct protocol he gave you? 100 iu's once per week? If so, that's useless. If injecting such a low amount it should be daily. Otherwise a normal dose is 250 iu's 2-3 times per week.

Sorry for the double post. Ive actually always been that way with EVERYTHING. I metabolize everything very very quickly, Alcohol, supplements, caffiene, you name it. I stopped taking supplements years ago because it always stopped working on me after a couple of weeks or i'd have to take massive doses to get it to work (which wound up making me feel like crap).

So what youre saying is since I metabolize everything so quickly (so it seems) I should take 2 60mg doses of test and 3 shots of HCG dosed out evenly? my doctor said that testosterone cyp. is made for 1 shot a week and if I wanted to do 2x a week I should take a different type of test (he didnt say which). Is this true or can I do 2x test cyp?

[kelkel]

Yes, 60 mg's X 2 per week. Cyp is versatile and there's no rule that it's only to be used one time per week, that's old school dogma. For many one time per week is just fine, considering cypionate peaks in about 24 hrs or so and has a half-life of around 5-7 days approx, metabolism dependent. That said, with one shot per week and IF you actually metabolize quicker than most by the end of the week you would be near the bottom. Think roller coaster going downhill. Why do that when you can maintain better levels with a twice per week protocol?

When it comes to HCG I'd probably start out with just two shots per week. Put it in the same syringe as your test for simplicity purposes.

[ks1234]

Yes, 60 mg's X 2 per week. Cyp is versatile and there's no rule that it's only to be used one time per week, that's old school dogma. For many one time per week is just fine, considering cypionate peaks in about 24 hrs or so and has a half-life of around 5-7 days approx, metabolism dependent. That said, with one shot per week and IF you actually metabolize quicker than most by the end of the week you would be near the bottom. Think roller coaster going downhill. Why do that when you can maintain better levels with a twice per week protocol?

When it comes to HCG I'd probably start out with just two shots per week. Put it in the same syringe as your test for simplicity purposes.

Thanks Kel, you're a bastion of the trt community and even though I've never met you and have no idea who you are, I still consider you a friend and I'm sure many people on these forums do as well. I will definitely give it a try. Idk about loading them in the same syringe though... that seems tricky. Maybe one day. One last question, do you have any idea why a higher dose of test would actually make me feel worse?

[kelkel]

Load them together if/when comfortable doing so.
Higher dose of test making you feel worse? Well, more isn't always better with TRT. That said, your body is searching for homeostasis and as I referenced earlier, it can take months for the subjective benefits to be realized. Just hang in there, you'll get there!

[ks1234]

Load them together if/when comfortable doing so.
Higher dose of test making you feel worse? Well, more isn't always better with TRT. That said, your body is searching for homeostasis and as I referenced earlier, it can take months for the subjective benefits to be realized. Just hang in there, you'll get there!

Awesome bro. Will try your suggestions and report back in a few weeks with results

[The_Crawfish]

Am I missing something?? I don't see any e2 numbers??

[ks1234]

Am I missing something?? I don't see any e2 numbers??

If e2 is estrogen then I don't have that since I started trt. I have to get labs done before I go in again and its a complete work up. The doc said since I've only been on 6 weeks (when i went in) he just wanted to test my testosterone and see how I was responding to trt

[SandraGa]

There is definitely something wrong, you need to find out and fix that soon. I guess the dosage is not being right for you.

[kelkel]

If e2 is estrogen then I don't have that since I started trt. I have to get labs done before I go in again and its a complete work up. The doc said since I've only been on 6 weeks (when i went in) he just wanted to test my testosterone and see how I was responding to trt

Take a look at the second set of BW in the Finding A Doc Sticky thread. Try and get that if possible.

[APIs]

8 weeks is nothing. Your symptoms of feeling poorly could be attributed to anything other than TRT. Give it time IMO...

[SEOINAGE]

Some great advice from kel. I had the same issue as you, 100mg once a week, by the end of the week I was angry and irritable and not happy. total test was lower than before treatment. I basically fired my doc. went to two times a week, got a new doctor and the dose ended up being raised significantly. As a hyper metabolizer, frequency is important, but you might end up needing a larger dose as well because of it.

Certainly you could have other things going on. But I would start at that 60x2 a week, split your hcg like you said, and wait to see how you feel and get blood work, and go from there.

[ks1234]

Take a look at the second set of BW in the Finding A Doc Sticky thread. Try and get that if possible.

I'm going to take your advice and go get my estrogen tested. I found this lab that will do it for $100 and I don't need a doctors order. I did switch over to 2x a week injections and I went ahead and split my hcg into 3x a week doses. I do test and hcg on Tues and sat and 1 hcg shot on fri. Does it matter when I go get my estrogen tested like it does with testosterone? Or can I just do it whenever?

[kelkel]

Whenever works. $100 bucks sounds high. If you're in the states look at discounted labs.com and private md labs. Discounted currently has the cheapest E2 Sensitive assay that I'm aware of.

[ks1234]

Whenever works. $100 bucks sounds high. If you're in the states look at discounted labs.com and private md labs. Discounted currently has the cheapest E2 Sensitive assay that I'm aware of.

Will look them up. Ty!

[ks1234]

Whenever works. $100 bucks sounds high. If you're in the states look at discounted labs.com and private md labs. Discounted currently has the cheapest E2 Sensitive assay that I'm aware of.

Small update- I switched over to the 2x a week injections like you said and it has SUBSTANTIALLY stabilized my mood and energy levels (although, it wouldn't seem like it, but adding that extra injection per week kinda sucks). My only issue right now is my libido is at zero. I can still get erections but they don't last and they're not very hard and my desire for sex isn't really there.(which really sucks because my libido was soooo awesome a month ago) anyway, I have yet to go get my BW done. I was going to do it this week and just do the full post trt panel and get my b vitamin level checked but I wound up having to spend about $1500 this weekend so I'm going to have to wait until next week to do it. But I think most of my symptoms point to high estrogen which is hopefully easily fixed but I won't know until I go get tested for sure.


Tldr- mood and energy are very good since doing 2x a week injections. Libido is nonexistent. Probably high estrogen. Going to get labs next week

[kelkel]

Once per week is fine for many guys but twice a week will make a difference both in stable serum levels as well as minimizing estrogen conversion. Think of it this way, with once per week injections you peak in a day or so then it's kinda a downhill slide until your next shot.

[ks1234]

Once per week is fine for many guys but twice a week will make a difference both in stable serum levels as well as minimizing estrogen conversion. Think of it this way, with once per week injections you peak in a day or so then it's kinda a downhill slide until your next shot.

So I finally got around to doing my blood test, I actually wanted to wait about a month on 2x a week injections because I think this will be my protocol from now on. I had it done this monday (the 14th). As you suggested, I've been doing 2x a week Test inj (tues and sat) and 3x a week HCG (tues, fri, sat). I do the HCG 3x a week bc im usually feeling kind of run-down on fridays and it really helps me get through the end of the week. I went ahead and had them do the full post TRT panel and check my b vitamin level (because i've been feeling tired and I wondered if that was the culprit). Heres the results- Im going to post the main stuff you guys are interested in... theres a lot of stuff on here but the only thing out of the ordinary was my RBC (per the lab ranges anyway). But like I said, I had the full panel done so if yall need any more info let me know and i'll get it to you if I have it.


RBC- 5.82 (4.14-5.80)
Hematocrit- 49.9 (37.5-50)
Testosterone TOTAL- 464 (348-1197)
Testosterone FREE DIRECT- 20.4 (9.3-26.5)
SHBG- 21.4 (16.5-55.9)
Estradiol- 34.4 (8.0-35.0)

TRT protocol WAS- 1x a week test cyp 100mg (bumped to 120mg about a month and a half ago and when I really started noticing symptoms) and 1x a week 1000IU hcg
TRT protocol NOW- 2x a week test cyp 60mg (tu-sat) 3x a week hcg 333IU (tu, fri, sat)
BLOOD DRAW- taken on a monday

So, as you see, the only thing out of the ordinary was my RBC was slightly high. I really kind of wish my Estradiol was slightly higher to put it in the "high" range because I dont know if my doctor will prescribe anything without it being technically "high". And these labs were done about a month after I switched to 2x a week injections. I wonder how high my E was before I switched.

So what do you guys think? My next appt. isnt until early november. Do you think I should contact my doc about my E being close to the "high" range? I do feel substantially better since switching to 2x a week but I dont feel ANYTHING like I did the first couple of months of TRT and I want to go back there. My main problem is sex drive and erection quality and lack of energy/motivation. its really getting quite frustrating because I feel like I had my life back (going to the gym 5x a week, no brain fog, sex ALL the time) and im just kind of lost with a direction to go from here.

Thanks again for all the help you guys have given me over the months, I really appreciate it.

Edit- edited for 333IU not 33iu on the hcg

[kelkel]

You should consider giving blood as your hema is getting up there. This can result in lethargic feelings and eventually lead to polycythemia is if continues to elevate. It's one of the main things to keep an eye on upon initiating TRT. Regarding your estradiol level, I'm assuming that is actually E2 based on it's scale and it's a typo by you? If so, that level may be to high for you which could in fact impact your libido.

Your free T looks good which is what matters. This is a result of a lower shbg level. Otherwise I would not like your total T level. I do think your total T would have been higher based on your Saturday injection and Monday testing. That said, it does seem to corroborate the possibility of being somewhat of a fast metabolizer or hyper-excreter. Time will tell.

When it comes to your third shot of HCG I honestly don't think you need it. Especially back to back. I'd just go M-W-F if you choose to continue with it. Dropping off your third shot may also help your E2 level a bit.

Also, remember what API said above as it's on point.

[ks1234]

You should consider giving blood as your hema is getting up there. This can result in lethargic feelings and eventually lead to polycythemia is if continues to elevate. It's one of the main things to keep an eye on upon initiating TRT. Regarding your estradiol level, I'm assuming that is actually E2 based on it's scale and it's a typo by you? If so, that level may be to high for you which could in fact impact your libido.

Your free T looks good which is what matters. This is a result of a lower shbg level. Otherwise I would not like your total T level. I do think your total T would have been higher based on your Saturday injection and Monday testing. That said, it does seem to corroborate the possibility of being somewhat of a fast metabolizer or hyper-excreter. Time will tell.

When it comes to your third shot of HCG I honestly don't think you need it. Especially back to back. I'd just go M-W-F if you choose to continue with it. Dropping off your third shot may also help your E2 level a bit.

Also, remember what API said above as it's on point.

Thanks for the swift and informative reply, Kel!
As for the estradiol test, yes, the info is correct in the exact number and ranges I got from labcorp. It was for the "sensitive" test offered through discountedlabs.com post trt panel. I really do think a lot of my symptoms are bc of my e2. I will try cutting out that hcg shot on Fri and see how that works for me.

As for my total T level, I was really surprised it wasnt higher... I figured it would at least be in the 600's but I was very pleased with my free T level, as I know that is the more important one. I did notice my shbg was low-ish but I don't really know what that does and how it relates to my t level. Should I be concerned with it or just not worry about it?

I thought that I would give it a couple of more weeks and retest my Estradiol as the test is only $30 and see where that puts it. I will be the first to admit that I don't have a lot of experience with doctors. If it is still borderline high, would you recommend calling the doctor about it or just waiting until my next appt to bring it up? My libido being low is a huge issue for me and Is my #1 concern and I'm trying everything to rectify that issue. Also, I definitely thought about what API said and I have been trying to keep my diet and sleep on point and keep my stress level low so I can rule out non trt related issues the best I can.

Thanks again for your stellar input, Kel.

P.s. I will also be donating blood soon

[kelkel]

Thought so on the Estrogen test. Just remember estradiol and E2 are quite a bit different when tested. You could consider adding DIM and zinc to your supplement protocol to help with estrogen conversion.

SHBG is a protein in our blood that is responsible for transporting hormones (T & E) throughout our bodies. SHBG and Albumin bind testosterone thus preventing it from becoming Free (useful) which is what works for us. So, to much SHBG equals less free T. To little can be related to a host of other issues. Mid range is best.

Here's a good article on it:

Do You Know Your Sex Hormone Status? – Life Extension

[ks1234]

Thought so on the Estrogen test. Just remember estradiol and E2 are quite a bit different when tested. You could consider adding DIM and zinc to your supplement protocol to help with estrogen conversion.

SHBG is a protein in our blood that is responsible for transporting hormones (T & E) throughout our bodies. SHBG and Albumin bind testosterone thus preventing it from becoming Free (useful) which is what works for us. So, to much SHBG equals less free T. To little can be related to a host of other issues. Mid range is best.

Here's a good article on it:

Do You Know Your Sex Hormone Status? – Life Extension

Thanks a ton for the article link. So apparently if I have too much shbg more of my t is useless but if it's to little then I may die of cancer or heart disease. Good options. Lol!

But how are e2 and estradiol tests different? When I searched Google they said they were the same test but called by different names.

[kelkel]

Well, not quite that radical of a leap when it comes to low shbg. It takes more than just low shbg....
The standard estradiol test is geared to women. Men fall at the bottom of the bell curve where the test is simply not sensitive enough for accuracy.

[ks1234]

Well, not quite that radical of a leap when it comes to low shbg. It takes more than just low shbg....
The standard estradiol test is geared to women. Men fall at the bottom of the bell curve where the test is simply not sensitive enough for accuracy.

Haha! I was being facetious man, I know it's not nearly that radical! But dually noted on the estradiol test, I'll be sure to use the sensitive on.

I'm going to try the dim and the zinc and cut out that extra hcg shot and retest my E in a couple of weeks.

One last question, do you recommend a certain dim supplement or can I just oder the top recommended one off of amazon and be okay?

[Beethoven]

Just to add my .02 on this. It takes time to really get dialed in. It's a trial and error process that can take months. One of the things for was lower the hcg as it raises me E2 quite a bit. I've settled in around 350 iu's which is good for me. BW is a great tool but it's only a guide, how you feel is what's important. My Dr wouldn't budge from 100 mg a week for test. Although I felt pretty good, libido and erections were still a bit of a problem. I took it upon myself to bump up a bit to about 125 mg a week or so. Big difference. Don't know what my numbers are right now but I feel good. Much better than at 100 mg a week. With me, the Estradiol sensitive test is about 10-15 points lower than the standard test so I can guide myself accordingly.

[kelkel]

I'm going to try the dim and the zinc and cut out that extra hcg shot and retest my E in a couple of weeks.

One last question, do you recommend a certain dim supplement or can I just oder the top recommended one off of amazon and be okay?

Give it a month before you retest.
Personally I use NOW Brand for most of my supps via Amazon. A good combo would be 200 mgs DIM, 50 Zinc and 3-4 Copper. You can find Zinc and Copper combined.

[ks1234]

Just to add my .02 on this. It takes time to really get dialed in. It's a trial and error process that can take months. One of the things for was lower the hcg as it raises me E2 quite a bit. I've settled in around 350 iu's which is good for me. BW is a great tool but it's only a guide, how you feel is what's important. My Dr wouldn't budge from 100 mg a week for test. Although I felt pretty good, libido and erections were still a bit of a problem. I took it upon myself to bump up a bit to about 125 mg a week or so. Big difference. Don't know what my numbers are right now but I feel good. Much better than at 100 mg a week. With me, the Estradiol sensitive test is about 10-15 points lower than the standard test so I can guide myself accordingly.

Thanks for the input man! I really appreciate it. The good thing about my doc is that he seems pretty willing to help me, which is great but I think he needs blood work to back everything up but I've only been seeing this doc since I started trt so I don't know him that well, we will see how my next appt goes with him.
As for getting "dialed in", I know for some that it's a long ardous process and it's the main reason a lot of guys give up on trt. It takes sooooo much trial and error and a lot of self-education to really get things working right.
I'm glad you're feeling good tho man! Did you just draw 125mg out of your 100mg script and ask for refills more often or did you get the extra t from an outside source?

[bigdil511]

Give it a month before you retest. Personally I use NOW Brand for most of my supps via Amazon. A good combo would be 200 mgs DIM, 50 Zinc and 3-4 Copper. You can find Zinc and Copper combined.

Me too I use them for everything and love Amazon prime it's the best thing ever. Free 2 day delivery on anything I want? Yes please

[ks1234]

Give it a month before you retest.
Personally I use NOW Brand for most of my supps via Amazon. A good combo would be 200 mgs DIM, 50 Zinc and 3-4 Copper. You can find Zinc and Copper combined.

Man, I replied to your post earlier but I guess it never posted. Anyway, I tried to find the NOW Brand DIM on amazon but they didn't have it so I ordered a brand called "smoky mountain" I suppose it can't be that much different but I prefer NOW Brand as well.

So I skipped my hcg shot yesterday, I woke up today feeling really good and I actually had a really good sex drive today and I had great energy. Coincidence? Probably... but It was still pretty awesome.

Anyway, I will cut the hcg shot on Friday and start supplementing with dim and zinc and retest and report back in a month! Thanks a lot for all of the help and advice. I really really appreciate it!

[ryobi1]

iwould get your thyroid checked exclusively...i look at your blood work...and it was vague on thyroid
results....get your TSH...T4...and Thyroperoxidase Ab...thyroid antibodies.....checked.....sounds like a matabolism
overload....thyroid hyperactive usually appears normal....but your head is the clouds....i agree hcg shot is alittle low...
i am fine with 250 a week....the big prob with too much hcg and test..is aromatization.....its crazy at 25 your test is out of whack...
your bw didnt show results for estro....when on hrt and your estro gets high you can feel the same symptoms you are describing as well.....thyroid is something to consider...

[ks1234]

iwould get your thyroid checked exclusively...i look at your blood work...and it was vague on thyroid
results....get your TSH...T4...and Thyroperoxidase Ab...thyroid antibodies.....checked.....sounds like a matabolism
overload....thyroid hyperactive usually appears normal....but your head is the clouds....i agree hcg shot is alittle low...
i am fine with 250 a week....the big prob with too much hcg and test..is aromatization.....its crazy at 25 your test is out of whack...
your bw didnt show results for estro....when on hrt and your estro gets high you can feel the same symptoms you are describing as well.....thyroid is something to consider...

Hey man! Thanks for the relply! I went through some old lab work when they were testing my thyroid

Tsh- .908 on a .450-4.500 scale
T4- 8.4 on a 4.5-12.0 scale
T3 uptake- 26 on a 24-29 scale
Free thyroxine index- 2.2 on a 1.2 to 4.9

On the lab scales it all says it's normal... but then again, I also was "normal" for my testosterone as well.
Should I get this retested? Maybe peruse looking into something being wrong with my thyroid?

Edit- found some more labs where they did a "ultrasensitive tsh" 1.170 on a .5 to 4.7 scale

[dingobite]

Powder city sells straight powders of Dim and other stuff, as for my thyroid before i was put on trt by a couple years prior it improved a few things i was having trouble with, biggest was when i started not wearing 3-4 shirts and a jacket in winter since i work outside alot.

When in a bucket doing deice on planes its very noticeable that my body warmed up big outside.

[Beethoven]

I

Thanks for the input man! I really appreciate it. The good thing about my doc is that he seems pretty willing to help me, which is great but I think he needs blood work to back everything up but I've only been seeing this doc since I started trt so I don't know him that well, we will see how my next appt goes with him.
As for getting "dialed in", I know for some that it's a long ardous process and it's the main reason a lot of guys give up on trt. It takes sooooo much trial and error and a lot of self-education to really get things working right.
I'm glad you're feeling good tho man! Did you just draw 125mg out of your 100mg script and ask for refills more often or did you get the extra t from an outside source?

Well I'm not advocating this but this is what happened. I wound up short on my test and was too early for my refill. I was not about to start feeling like crap so I turned to a source and got an ugl bottle to keep me going. This was however a higher concentrated dose so I wound up pinning 125 mg a week. Come about three weeks or so later started noticing a few welcome changes. I did not cruise on it just kept my trt rolling. This is because my then Dr is stuck on 100 mg for everyone and that's that. It is very hard to find a real good and knowledgeable Dr so at least I'm ok for now.

[ks1234]

Hi chaps!
So, I always give you guys an update after every doctors visit (as always, if you want to know the whole story, click the link in post 1 to hear it). So, I had an appt on monday with my urologist (after the longest 3 months of my life), I was really scared to tell him that I basically changed all of my doses around and frequency and had been doing a lot of self-experimentation (if you want to know the history of that, read the above posts). He was super understanding and was like "well, you know your body better than anyone but you know you dont have to do this alone, if youre having issues call me and we will pull BW and get you in here and get this figured out", At that point I told him I loved him and asked him to marry me, he politely declined, maybe next time
Anyway, I tried running 2x injections a week and it was seriously just too much of a pain in the ass, so for the last 4 weeks or so i've been running 100mg test cyp 1x (thu) a week and 300-400iu of hg 1x a week (Tues). That helped lower my E down for 34.4 to 26 and my test levels came back at 627 (monday blood draw) and my hematocrit was 49 (48 to 51 scale). I told him all of my symptoms (bloating, no sex drive, itchy nips, cant get/stay hard, tired, etc etc) and I told him that I think I really needed an AI. He prescribed me Arimidex at 1mg 2x a week but he told me to just play around with the dosing and start at 1/2 a pill 2x a week or whatever I felt comfortable with. He also gave me this huge handful of cialis samples to take until my weenie starts working again and he gave me a quote on a vasoctemy (overall a total "win" in the doctors visit category).
So I be-bopped down to the local wally-world and got my script for adex ($2 for a month supply, woohoo!) and took half a pill, after about an hour I started getting a really bad hot flash and my stomach got kind of upset, so that was a fail BUT I pee'd about 10 pounds out over the next 24 hours and I woke up the next day feeling better than ive felt in a good long while. My weenie seems to have come back to life and overall im feeling like I did when I started TRT. Then I got on the internet and started reading more on adex (I knew to start low as to not crash E but I wanted to know more) and then I read all of the horror stories about it and how some people wont go within 10feet of the stuff and now Im scared of it. lol
Anyway, does anyone have any advice on the adex? Im going back to my old protocol of 125mg 1x a week on tues of Test and 2 doses of HCG (probably friday and monday). Does it matter when I take it? And should I start lower than 1/2 a pill 2x a week?
Thanks guys!
Oh... p.s. I dont think I'll need the cialis if everything keeps down this path but I'm sure it'll be good to have on hand for some fun nights

P.P.S. One thing that did freak me out was the nurse lady did my Blood pressure on one of the wrist cuff things, It came back 150/100... I almost shat myself right there in the office. My BP has NEVER been anywhere near that. She said not to worry and the wrist things are really inaccurate but I have been getting headaches lately and I wonder if my BP being high is the culprit? I dont know why it would be so high though as I had it done the last visit and it came back like 115/70. My headaches have gotten better over the course of this week though so maybe it was just a fluke thing or stress? Either way that really freaked me out

[kelkel]

Nice that your doctor was so understanding and helpful. When it comes to adex there's no need to panic. It works fine for most everyone that uses it properly. Speaking of which, .5 x 2 per week will be way to much, imho. Not really sure if you even need it. Your E has come down to 26 but we don't know if it's a sensitive assay or standard estradiol. Either way, if it's a sens assay the scale is around 8-35. If it's estradiol it normally reads higher than normal so you'd actually be lower.

An example I always use with adex is this. An average dose of adex for a 500 mg test cycle is .25 mg every other day. Do the math and you'll see the doc's estimated dosing is probably high.

You appear to be making progress and you feel better so why would you go back to your old protocol of 125 mgs per week when you're just fine at 100 mgs, assuming your FT is in a good place?

Re HCG and once per week injections it's common to see doc's (educated one's anyway) advise to take the shots both one and two days prior to your test injection to help bump up declining test levels at the end of the week. That said, your Friday and Monday plan is just fine, imho.

When it comes to your BP I'd bet you were simply nervous.

ps: Keep trying as your doc may just be playing hard to get.

[ks1234]

Nice that your doctor was so understanding and helpful. When it comes to adex there's no need to panic. It works fine for most everyone that uses it properly. Speaking of which, .5 x 2 per week will be way to much, imho. Not really sure if you even need it. Your E has come down to 26 but we don't know if it's a sensitive assay or standard estradiol. Either way, if it's a sens assay the scale is around 8-35. If it's estradiol it normally reads higher than normal so you'd actually be lower.

An example I always use with adex is this. An average dose of adex for a 500 mg test cycle is .25 mg every other day. Do the math and you'll see the doc's estimated dosing is probably high.

You appear to be making progress and you feel better so why would you go back to your old protocol of 125 mgs per week when you're just fine at 100 mgs, assuming your FT is in a good place?

Re HCG and once per week injections it's common to see doc's (educated one's anyway) advise to take the shots both one and two days prior to your test injection to help bump up declining test levels at the end of the week. That said, your Friday and Monday plan is just fine, imho.

When it comes to your BP I'd bet you were simply nervous.

ps: Keep trying as your doc may just be playing hard to get.

Thanks for the awesome reply as always, Kel!
I'm sure I wasnt being very clear in my post (tend to kind of write all over the place)
Up until monday (when I went to see the doc) I hadnt been feeling great, I had been feeling -better- (since I lowered my Test and HCG down to get my E under control) but I was still having a hard time sleeping, trouble getting/staying erect, no morning wood, bloat, etc.
I got my adex script on monday and took half a pill and woke up tues feeling better, took my test shot on tues (125mg) and have been coasting along feeling really good since tues (almost like I felt when I started TRT)
But maybe you're right, maybe I should stick to my old protocol for a little while and see if lowering my E down to normal levels keeps me feeling good and then I wont have a need to increase my test dosage (I've always felt that using the least amount of meds to solve your problem is always best).
The problem is that I just dont really know and this whole process is a guessing game until you get things right, I do think pursuing an AI is the correct course of action though, especially because im feeling better than ive felt in awhile, im just curious as to why you disagree?

Thanks for the reply man! Hopefully i've made things more clear.

P.s. I will lower my dose of adex to 1/4 of a pill 2x a week

P.P.s. If my doc keeps playing hard to get, im coming after you next! <3
Jk jk

[kelkel]

Understood. I question the need for adex due to your test results. If you know whether it's a sensitive assay or standard estradiol if would help. I do agree that if you continue with adex to keep it at the bare minimum as it can sneak up on your E2 level and lower it to much. I'd consider .25 the day of or day after injection would probably be step one, then retest in 4-6 weeks after being consistent with the protocol. Then titrate as needed based on BW.

[ks1234]

Understood. I question the need for adex due to your test results. If you know whether it's a sensitive assay or standard estradiol if would help. I do agree that if you continue with adex to keep it at the bare minimum as it can sneak up on your E2 level and lower it to much. I'd consider .25 the day of or day after injection would probably be step one, then retest in 4-6 weeks after being consistent with the protocol. Then titrate as needed based on BW.

Will do! Thanks Kel.
As far as the tests. I know for a fact the first estradiol test was a sensitive essay that I ordered myself from discountedlabs.com 34.4 on a max of 35 scale. I'm assuming the second one was not a sensitive test but idk. The scales are the same but I really can't say for 100%. The doctor actually had to write in an estradiol test on the bw sheet so idk if quest automatically does the sensitive one for males or maybe the tech just ordered the sensitive one. But I know when my E was at 34.4 I felt absolutely horrible