Staying on exogenous testosterone indefinitely - a lifelong plan?

[cousinmuscles]

Last month I got my blood results back, I was waiting eagerly for them. The original plan was to use the numbers as a reference for the future - once PCT was done from a cycle, I would wait until I got back to my baseline levels. Though the results I got were pretty crappy. My test levels at 28 years of age are 375 ng/dL. Which is that of a 85-100 year old man I believe. So my ideas of going back to off cycle have turned once I thought about it.

I have ruminated a lot about this and asked friends who know about the subject what they think. To my lack of surprise they said it's a good idea. The idea is to have blast phases where I use a higher amount of testosterone (e.g. 600mg test enanthate per week) and then take an even longer period of TRT levels of testosterone - something like 100mg per week of test enanthate, or whatever amount takes me to 1000-1200 ng/dL testosterone.

I am trying to see this in the most real and logical way. We know that in essence exogenous testosterone works in the same way as endogenous. The unhealthy side effects such as red/white blood cells, blood lipids, heart enlargement et.c. are reversible. Testicular atrophy (and ability to recover from a HPTA shutdown) is manageable through the use of HCG. Though there is still a reason against this prolonged state of exogenous testosterone administration, and that is that I may permanently damage the HPTA axis/my testicles, which will lead to one acceptable side effect, and one less acceptable. The acceptable one is that I may end up needing TRT much earlier. That doesnt matter if I plan to start being dependent on injecting testosterone already now. The other is I might sterilize myself and not be able to recover. I don't plan on getting kids though this is not a certain thing even 10 years down the road. This is the only argument I can come up with. Though I wonder if moderate cycles will even do this? Many professional bodybuilders have used amounts I know I will never come up to, as I have never aspired to look like them or to be as strong as the worlds elite powerlifters et.c.

The reason I want to use PEDs is because progress in the gym has been very slow. I train for strength primarily. This year I started deadlifting 200kg for 2 reps, and have come up to 200kg for 6 reps and 210kg for 4. 200kg is 440lbs, 210kg is 462lbs. I think the results suck considering how advanced training cycles I have had to set up to make it happen. Another reason I would like to have higher test levels is for life in general too. I work 6-7 days a week, I am at work 9:30am and leave 9-9:30pm. It is a physical and high paced job, high stress. I am investing my time and effort for the future and the only things I desire are succeding in my investing, training (I want to deadlift 300kg at least) and banging hot chicks. If I age more and can't even enjoy banging a hottie then I don't know if there is much more meaning left in life. My test levels are low though libido is just fine, but who knows what happens as it gradually goes even lower. I don't even know what 1200 ng/dL feels like and the level of life enjoyment.

Sorry for the long post, I hope I get some replies and opinions though.

[cousinmuscles]

A side note. Here is an example of what I mean with this plan:

First 12 weeks of the year, test prop 50mg ED
Then for 14 weeks, test E 100mg E5d
repeat
Do bloods for test and e2 so proper adjustment can be done to the TRT dose and for AI dose, and full blood test after every cycle to check for general health (lipids, liver, kidneys et.c.).
Use HCG if/when testicle size is noticeably decreased

I don't plan to use massive doses of multiple compounds. I want to train until I die and I believe a normal cycle with say 50 and up to 100mg test prop or the equivalent is enough. If I would add another compound it would be tren acetate after I've seen what it did to my friend, 50mg daily on top of the test.

[Mr.BB]

Its called TRT, theres big part of this forum dedicated to it.

It is not something without problems, should be done with doctor supervision.

Where did you see that 385ng/dl is for men 85 to 100?

[cousinmuscles]

Testosterone levels by age in A. Vermeleun (1996)


more:


I would not mind if the mods moved this to the TRT section then, I might get better answers.

[cyounger100]

Unfortunaly 375 is still in the normal range the doctor is going to tell you . Mine was the same when I started TRT if you have a good doctor like me he will start you but alot of doctor's will not due to you being in the normal range . Anything below 300 is low .

[Mr.BB]

Testosterone levels by age in A. Vermeleun (1996)

more:


I would not mind if the mods moved this to the TRT section then, I might get better answers.

That chart lacks important information like the standard deviation, here's the complete chart:


So, considering the standard deviation for you age above 447 ng/dl is considered normal. Then you have to consider environmental factors and even lab deviations.

Not trying to talk you out of TRT, I'm the last person who should be allowed to do so (lol), but just do it for the correct reasons and be aware of the problems and complications that will for sure arise from it. When you plot the data a sample population will be like this:

AS you can see there is a lot of variation, what is low and what is normal is very difficult to distinguish. At the end of the day symptoms should be what physicians evaluate and treat.

Sorry for the small rant, but im kinda tired of those kind of charts, which are posted all over the internet by so called health clinics, which are nothing else than marketing!

If you want to improve your test level make sure you draw blood for the test first thing in the morning, and supplement minimum 5000ui of vit D3 daily.

If you want to go TRT do it properly with a doctor guidance.

And yes, you should be able to get TRT just because you want it, women do it since the 60's...

[cousinmuscles]

That chart lacks important information like the standard deviation, here's the complete chart:


So, considering the standard deviation for you age above 447 ng/dl is considered normal. Then you have to consider environmental factors and even lab deviations.

Not trying to talk you out of TRT, I'm the last person who should be allowed to do so (lol), but just do it for the correct reasons and be aware of the problems and complications that will for sure arise from it. When you plot the data a sample population will be like this:

AS you can see there is a lot of variation, what is low and what is normal is very difficult to distinguish. At the end of the day symptoms should be what physicians evaluate and treat.

Sorry for the small rant, but im kinda tired of those kind of charts, which are posted all over the internet by so called health clinics, which are nothing else than marketing!

If you want to improve your test level make sure you draw blood for the test first thing in the morning, and supplement minimum 5000ui of vit D3 daily.

If you want to go TRT do it properly with a doctor guidance.

And yes, you should be able to get TRT just because you want it, women do it since the 60's...

Thank you for your response.

I know that I am still in the normal range. Though this "normal" range is very wide though. I am almost two standard deviations below the norm (that puts me in what, the bottom 2%?). And that is the average level of a 85-100 year old male. My reasons for doing it is not the same as a physicians reason for prescribing someone TRT. I want high levels, not below average, not even average. I want to maximize what I can get from my body while minimizing the side effects.

I did get my bloods in the morning, in a fasted state. Didn't supplement with D3 though I hardly think it would increase my 375 to 1000-1200, where I want it.

About getting a prescription, I won't manage to get it in this country. My friend who has done a ton of cycles and had 10 on the test (thats approx 288 ng/dL) lied about symptoms and said he couldnt get erections, couldnt sleep, had no energy to even get a job et.c. Since he just turned 30 the doc told him it is too early, but he could get viagra if he wished. I think I'd be better off doing some time on and then get bloods post PCT to make more of a case, like below 200.

[cousinmuscles]

Unfortunaly 375 is still in the normal range the doctor is going to tell you . Mine was the same when I started TRT if you have a good doctor like me he will start you but alot of doctor's will not due to you being in the normal range . Anything below 300 is low .

Another problem is time. I might find a doctor who will however the problem is it would take a hell of a lot of time. I don't have this kind of time and my reasoning now is to let the test levels drop due to age/PED use to make a case for it.

[Mr.BB]

About getting a prescription, I won't manage to get it in this country. My friend who has done a ton of cycles and had 10 on the test (thats approx 288 ng/dL) lied about symptoms and said he couldnt get erections, couldnt sleep, had no energy to even get a job et.c. Since he just turned 30 the doc told him it is too early, but he could get viagra if he wished. I think I'd be better off doing some time on and then get bloods post PCT to make more of a case, like below 200.

Hypogonadism is a treated in every country of the world. You need the right doctor (andrologist) and of course you cannot tell the doctor what you posted, he needs to see it as a serious condition.

If you're in europe 98% chance you would be prescribed nebido.

Good luck!

[cousinmuscles]

Hypogonadism is a treated in every country of the world. You need the right doctor (andrologist) and of course you cannot tell the doctor what you posted, he needs to see it as a serious condition.

If you're in europe 98% chance you would be prescribed nebido.

Good luck!

Thanks!

Right now I have started a full on cycle of 250mg test cyp E3D. Hopefully if my bloods show lower levels after PCT I will make the effort to find the right andrologist because I would much rather get pharma grade stuff, and of course have a doctor looking at my health. Yes I am in Europe. Nebido or enanthate I don't care, as long as my bloods show high results.