I think i'm ready to start cycling - got my pics up and every detail - Plz critique

[x_SANDMAN_x]

Hey everyone!

It's been a long and agonizing journey for me to get bulked...the natural way. I've been weight lifting since i was 17... I'm now 28. So basically 11 years! I've learned a lot of things about bodybuilding and nutrition over the years. And I've done everything short of steroids to bulk up. And i honestly think i cant get any bigger....without using steroids. I guess i got bad genetics because for someone who's been lifting weights for this long...I'm supposed to at least look like i lift weights...but unfortunately when I'm wearing cloths....its obvious at all. So now I've made a decision to start using steroids. I'm tired of slogging my a** at the gym and not going anywhere. So I'm here now for some advice. Below are my stats and every detail about my nutrition and workout.


Stats:

Gender: Male
Age: 28
Height: 6'5
Weight: 192 lb
Body fat: %12


Workout:

Sat:

Chest & Bi

3 exercises - chest
E.g.: Bench press, incline bench press, dumbbell flys

3 exercises - Bi
E.g.: Barbell curls, concentration curls, hammer curls

3 sets for ever exercise - 12/10/8



Mon:

Shoulders

4 exercises
E.g.: Seated barbell press, dumbbell side raise, alternating dumbbell front raise, dumbbell laying rear raise.

3 sets for ever exercise - 12/10/8



Tue:

Back & Tri

4 exercises - Back
E.g.: T bar, pulldowns, e-z bar upright row, deadlights

3 exercises - Tri
E.g.: E-z bar tri extension, cable pushdowns, one arm reverse cable extension

3 sets for ever exercise - 12/10/8



Thursday:

Legs

4 exercises
E.g.: Squats, hyperextension, lying leg curls, lunges --- Crunches


3 sets for ever exercise - 12/10/8


I don't do the same exercises the following week. I alternate. Example, if i do barbell bench press this week. I will do dumbbell bench press the following week. The 3rd week, i will do barbell bench press again BUT i will make sure that i either lift heavier weights or do at least more reps....so I'm always progressing. And also, i will stick to a bodybuilding routine/program for about 10 to 12 weeks…sometimes 8....take a week off, and then continue with another bodybuilding program....such as HIT (High Intensity Training).



Nutrition:








In case you are thinking i should increase my calorie intake. I've already tried that. Went up to 5000 calories a day. All I've accomplished by doing that is gain fat. Even though it was a "clean diet". And when i gain fat, it tends to accumulate in the wrong areas. And then later on...when i change my program to shed the fat so that the muscles i've gained would show. It becomes an extremely hard process.... i get ripped (or almost) but loose alot of muscle along the way. So i end up back in square one. I'm sure its my genetics. I know what I'm doing but it doesn't work....at least the way i want it to. When i go on a "fat shedding program" i eat about 300-500 calories less than my maintenance. I run an hour a day, 5-6 days a week at about %60 of my max heart rate (sometimes more) (which is the ideal fat burning zone). I also work out. And when I'm bulking, i eat 500 or more calories over my maintenance...and stop the cardio. I'm sort of carb sensitive so notice in my diet plan, I eat carbs the first 3 meals only.


My pics:





I cant upload more than 5 pics here so i put up the rest of my pics on the following link:

http://www.4shared.com/dir/25914340/...9/sharing.html

The ones where I'm wearing blue sweat pants are the latest. The others were taken when i was on a fat burning program about 6 months ago.




Well, like i said....I'm seriously considering steroids as i feel like I've come to the end of the road going about it naturally. I feel i have adequate knowledge about bodybuilding and nutrition to use steroids. And also i am old enough and have enough experience. My plan is:

Test E 500mg per week. 250mgx2 a week....for 8 weeks. D bol @ 30mg for 4 weeks.

As for PCT its nolvadex and climoid.


So... What do you guys think? Appreciate your input/advice/critique. Thanks a mil!

[Mooseman33]

good job on putting every detail out there. nice post.

i think ur training needs some help, u can tweak ur routine and it will really help.

as far as AAS, u seem to have it covered..

goodluck

[stpete]

I don't see why not but i would run the test for 12 weeks.
Good luck

[chuckt12345]

would run it way more than 8 wks,, nice posing,,what up with the gang signs

[x_SANDMAN_x]

would run it way more than 8 wks,, nice posing,,what up with the gang signs

they aint gang signs man.... just pointing to the camera girl. So alright 12 weeks? what about the d bol? With my stats and everything else.... do y'all think it's a good time to start cycling?

[Vitruvian-Man]

I don't think you're in any way ready to start cycling...

6'5 and 190 pounds is just unacceptable... I would definitely put on some more mass naturally before using AAS.

hold off on cycling for a while bro...

[x_SANDMAN_x]

I suggest you read what i wrote. I ive been trying to bulk up naturally for a while now and im not going anywhere. yeah i could increase my weight but it will just be fat weight...now whats the use of that? I got poor genetics.

[ReX357]

Trying to bulk up for a while?

What's your diet?

[x_SANDMAN_x]

Trying to bulk up for a while?

What's your diet?

:|
dont you guys read the post?!

Its all there!

[ReX357]

:|
dont you guys read the post?!

Its all there!

Sorry dude, totally overlooked the pictures. Just used to seeing it in writing right in the post. My mistake.

[yungone501]

I don't think you're in any way ready to start cycling...

6'5 and 190 pounds is just unacceptable... I would definitely put on some more mass naturally before using AAS.

hold off on cycling for a while bro...

Im with him on this one. Looking at your build, there's no way you've been eating proper diet while lifting for 11 years....No way. Bro, I'm 5'9" @ 173lbs and I have to eat above 3800 cal. just to gain. I think you should reconsider using and focus ALOT more on your diet (and training).

I think you have a good base but it needs some work.

[ReX357]

Bring you calories up to 4500 see what it does. Also how long have you been sticking to this diet? No way you've been on that for 11 years.

[Surfstud18]

I don't think you're in any way ready to start cycling...

6'5 and 190 pounds is just unacceptable... I would definitely put on some more mass naturally before using AAS.

hold off on cycling for a while bro...

I second that!! I would do some research into changing your workouts first. If your worried about getting fat that could be a problem you have to add more clay to carve.

Are you hitting squat hard?

[2jz_calgary]

i say go for it. thers no set weight to try steroids, as long as you are old enough have a good knowledge of steroids and what they can do, and know how to eat and train. Just make sure you have a good diet for on cycle, as you wont get fat so eat!

[yungone501]

In case you are thinking i should increase my calorie intake. I've already tried that. Went up to 5000 calories a day. All I've accomplished by doing that is gain fat. Even though it was a "clean diet". And when i gain fat, it tends to accumulate in the wrong areas. And then later on...when i change my program to shed the fat so that the muscles i've gained would show. It becomes an extremely hard process.... i get ripped (or almost) but loose alot of muscle along the way. So i end up back in square one. I'm sure its my genetics. I know what I'm doing but it doesn't work....at least the way i want it to. When i go on a "fat shedding program" i eat about 300-500 calories less than my maintenance. I run an hour a day, 5-6 days a week at about %60 of my max heart rate (sometimes more) (which is the ideal fat burning zone). I also work out. And when I'm bulking, i eat 500 or more calories over my maintenance...and stop the cardio. I'm sort of carb sensitive so notice in my diet plan, I eat carbs the first 3 meals only.

Also, I call B.S. on this one.

[stpete]

6'5 and 190 is light but he's also 28 years old. I just went thru your post for the 3rd time and i believe that he has given diet every opportunity. You could add some carbs at dinner though. Shakes can help too.

A good friend of mine was in the same position and he ate over 5000 cals a day and still couldn't gain. Finally, he got sick of spinning his wheels and got on test. He was 6'1 @ 170, now he maintains 205 after 4 or 5 cycles. So i think you're ok sandman. Make sure you got your pct lined up right.

[MuscleScience]

6'5 and 190 is light but he's also 28 years old. I just went thru your post for the 3rd time and i believe that he has given diet every opportunity. You could add some carbs at dinner though. Shakes can help too.

A good friend of mine was in the same position and he ate over 5000 cals a day and still couldn't gain. Finally, he got sick of spinning his wheels and got on test. He was 6'1 @ 170, now he maintains 205 after 4 or 5 cycles. So i think you're ok sandman. Make sure you got your pct lined up right.

I agree, if he feels he is ready and can stay dedicated to diet and training there is no reason why he is any less prepared than anyone else on the board. I mean hell, its not like he is some 18 year old kid that started lifting this summer. That is assuming he is being truthful with us.

[stpete]

I agree, if he feels he is ready and can stay dedicated to diet and training there is no reason why he is any less prepared than anyone else on the board. I mean hell, its not like he is some 18 year old kid that started lifting this summer. That is assuming he is being truthful with us.

Thank you.

[MotoLifter]

dude you gotta get more that 3600 cal. to put on some musle. EAT EAT EAT!!!

[Surfstud18]

I'm lifting with a partner who's been stuck at 185 forever just because his matabolism runs so hard.

We've been hitting squats hard using fast and slow twich fibers...... Added pasta and egg whites to his meals and changed his rutine around added a mixed protein shake with almond butter before he went to bed and he's added 15 lbs in 4 months......

Could be an idea to check into

[BJJ]

I believe your genetics have nothing to do with your incapacity to grow more.

Two main problems in my opinion:

1. Diet must be improved
2. Workout must be changed

1. Your daily BMR (basal metabolic rate), by the stats you provided, should be around 2.050 Kcal. So, in order to grow naturally you should increase your protides intake to 384 gr/day (2 gr per pound), increase your glucides intake up to 470 gr/day and your lipides up to 125 gr/day, for a ttl of 4541 Kcal daily. (Assuming you burn around 1500 Kcal for your daily activities).
Eating only low gi carbs, you will keep a relation between carbs and proteins around 0,81, which is a very good result in order to mantain your insulin stable avoiding unwanted spikes. Probably, you got fat on your previous attempts because you were careless regarding this last point, which is fundamental.
Also, avoid eating three different types of protides each day, if not even four.
If possible, try not to go over two. This will give your organism less stress in releasing the necessary enzymes in the hematic stream needed to digest different types of protides. More enzymes around, more time in order to complete the digestive process.
Also, do not drink while you are eating but just before that and after your workout, not during. Do not drink more than 6/7 liters of mineral water per day.

2. The way you workout is a very old methodology. Try to forget regarding week days but think about numbers only, even though in this way it may happen often for you to workout on Sundays. Train one muscle group per day, starting with legs, shoulders, rest, back, biceps/triceps, rest, chest... avoid more than three exercises per muscle group and concentrate on the basic ones. Try to change your routine often, basically you have to hit your muscles at every workout like if you were having a mma fight. You never know what to expect and so your muscles must never know how you are going to use them; so, do not be repetitive.
Legs is the key. Squat hard and increase the size of your legs, the rest of your muscles (with proper workout) will follow. Furthermore, you will skyrocket your BMR.

Follow these advices and I see no reason why you should not grow, either you use ass or not.
Good luck

[yungone501]

Majority rules: AAS usage = Not a good idea.

[x_SANDMAN_x]

I believe your genetics have nothing to do with your incapacity to grow more.

Two main problems in my opinion:

1. Diet must be improved
2. Workout must be changed

1. Your daily BMR (basal metabolic rate), by the stats you provided, should be around 2.050 Kcal. So, in order to grow naturally you should increase your protides intake to 384 gr/day (2 gr per pound), increase your glucides intake up to 470 gr/day and your lipides up to 125 gr/day, for a ttl of 4541 Kcal daily. (Assuming you burn around 1500 Kcal for your daily activities).
Eating only low gi carbs, you will keep a relation between carbs and proteins around 0,81, which is a very good result in order to mantain your insulin stable avoiding unwanted spikes. Probably, you got fat on your previous attempts because you were careless regarding this last point, which is fundamental.
Also, avoid eating three different types of protides each day, if not even four.
If possible, try not to go over two. This will give your organism less stress in releasing the necessary enzymes in the hematic stream needed to digest different types of protides. More enzymes around, more time in order to complete the digestive process.
Also, do not drink while you are eating but just before that and after your workout, not during. Do not drink more than 6/7 liters of mineral water per day.

2. The way you workout is a very old methodology. Try to forget regarding week days but think about numbers only, even though in this way it may happen often for you to workout on Sundays. Train one muscle group per day, starting with legs, shoulders, rest, back, biceps/triceps, rest, chest... avoid more than three exercises per muscle group and concentrate on the basic ones. Try to change your routine often, basically you have to hit your muscles at every workout like if you were having a mma fight. You never know what to expect and so your muscles must never know how you are going to use them; so, do not be repetitive.
Legs is the key. Squat hard and increase the size of your legs, the rest of your muscles (with proper workout) will follow. Furthermore, you will skyrocket your BMR.

Follow these advices and I see no reason why you should not grow, either you use ass or not.
Good luck

beautiful! Thanks alot for your input bro!
Thing is...like i said. I was on a 5000 calories a day diet plan. %50 carbs, %30 protein and %20 fat. Almost all lean protein and %100 organic carbs. What happens is that i just become fatter. Yes i gain muscle as well but its so little its not even worth it. Later i would have to change my program to shed the fat. And when i do...the little muscle i gained during the bulking phase just disappears. And burning off the fat is extremely difficult since i tend to gain fat unequally...like most of it, if not, then almost all of the fat is stored around my hips and luv handles. So i would loose the little fat that i gained around the other parts of my body while the above areas remain the same until im really thin everywhere except those places. So i have to go on.... And then...when finally i start to loose the fat in those areas...its a really slow pace. And by the time im done...im back to where i started. Im telling you, its genetics. Or do you guys have i solution for this particular problem?

[BJJ]

beautiful! Thanks alot for your input bro!
Thing is...like i said. I was on a 5000 calories a day diet plan. %50 carbs, %30 protein and %20 fat. Almost all lean protein and %100 organic carbs. What happens is that i just become fatter. Yes i gain muscle as well but its so little its not even worth it. Later i would have to change my program to shed the fat. And when i do...the little muscle i gained during the bulking phase just disappears. And burning off the fat is extremely difficult since i tend to gain fat unequally...like most of it, if not, then almost all of the fat is stored around my hips and luv handles. So i would loose the little fat that i gained around the other parts of my body while the above areas remain the same until im really thin everywhere except those places. So i have to go on.... And then...when finally i start to loose the fat in those areas...its a really slow pace. And by the time im done...im back to where i started. Im telling you, its genetics. Or do you guys have i solution for this particular problem?

Post your diet, in details.

[x_SANDMAN_x]

Post your diet, in details.

i just have a hard copy of it... I dont know where the file is as i havent been on it for a while. But basicaly its the same as the one ive posted above but just more of the same food...and instead of only the first 3 meals containing carbs. It was 5 meals.

[BJJ]

i just have a hard copy of it... I dont know where the file is as i havent been on it for a while. But basicaly its the same as the one ive posted above but just more of the same food...and instead of only the first 3 meals containing carbs. It was 5 meals.

Add one more meal, so a total of 7.
Bring up the macro nutrients to where I advised you before.
Eat two proteins type per day maximum, like eggs/chicken breast, eggs/fish (mostly wild salmon)... remember the enzymes.
Add to what I already advised you 60 g of casein and 5 almonds (15 g) before bed every day.
Eat yoghurt at breakfast but do not waste your time with milk, you are not an unweaned anymore.
Prefer as carbs, spent, einkorn, oats, barley (mondato), brown rice, basmati rice, millet (a couple of times per week at lunch) and other whole grains.
Try to avoid completely hi gi carbs, take it only after your workout in case you already know it works for you but just eat fruits, like bananas, melons...
Your after workout meal must be a solid one and if you can avoid shakes.
Squat as hard as you can (avoiding to injure yourself of course) to skyrocket your BMR.

Again, follow these advices and I see no reason for you not to grow.
Insulin is the key, keep it stable and with the right percentage of macro nutrients and a proper training regime, you will grow without adding the unwanted fat.

[elpropiotorvic]

Post ur 5000 cal diet...


At the same time I'm not ur mom nobody here is... Ur already old enough to know whAt to put in ur body... And u seem not to be careless about it so...

[youngerlion]

Post ur 5000 cal diet...


At the same time I'm not ur mom nobody here is... Ur already old enough to know whAt to put in ur body... And u seem not to be careless about it so...

5000 calories...

[bjpennnn]

to light man. put a jar of peanutbutter in your car and rubberband a spoon around it. Everytime you get in and out take a big spoonful of peanut butter. There are like ten million ways to gain weight. I did that when i was 18-19 and got up to 185 at 5-6.

[bjpennnn]

oh ya i started at 137.

[fizler]

THANK YOU for posting all of that detail!!!


I will agree with some of the things I saw above..


Bump test to 12 weeks..have pct and you should be good to go.
IMO stick with test only for 1st cycle. As you won't be use to the pumps from test, or from anything so its best to take it on 1 at a time until you know how your body works with test.

One thing, I would do is switch your work outs up. I like doing lockouts, which is when you use a power rack, and start with the bar on your chest and push for reps. I'm sure there are much better explanations for that exercise.

That is just one example. I have three plus+ workouts per body part and switch them up every week to every other week(depending on if I am on juice, and what not). I always deadlift, squat, bench and do pullups and dips.

Up your training when you cycle. I would do the big 3 (squat, dead, bench) every other third day.

I think that's it. Good luck! Post up before and after stats for sure.

[chuckt12345]

yea spend 10k extra a year on an impossible regime eating 5000 calories to gain some weight,, or spend a few hundred and gain the exact same weight with AAS,

cus guess what when you stop eating that diet you will also lose the weight just like you lose it when you get off AAS

Genetics RULE WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT YOU WEIGH AND WHAT YOU WILL WEIGH

if your 20 thats one thing ,, if your 28 you pretty much know what your natural weight is

[Little Herc]

I disagree with the popular opinion that you have to wait till you have maxed out your natural potential. I also disagree that what some people claim to be a natural potential is even really there max. More than likely its where they got lazy and didnt wanna change up their routine. People get used to something and don't feel like changing.

I think that if you are old enough (25+), Have your diet in check, have a couple of years HARD lifting under your belt (mainly so you don't screw up you CNS and tendons), and have done your research I say "go for it".

Props to those who did wait till they topped out there natural potential. If I planed on doing some shows or competing I definitely would wait and build the biggest base up as possible. 99% of the people on here are not doing this to compete.

Just my 2 cents.

[ScotchGuard]

I'm 5'11 and was 126lbs when I graduated from high school. My goal was 130lbs. I ate everything in sight, couldn't gain weight. I graduated from college at 140lbs. At 50, I was a 180lbs. Yeah, it took me almost 25 years to gain 40 lbs naturally. I was about 14% bf (hydrostatic measurement) when I went on my first sustanon + Dbol cycle. Gained 25 lbs during the cycle and kept about 15 lbs after PCT. I guess what I'm saying is some people can't seem to gain weight as quickly as others, naturally. If sandman's really doing his post then he's like me, hard time gaining weight naturally. I say, make sure you have your gear, PCT, sides control (acne, hair loss, etc), keep everything sterile and start your cycle.

[Bossman]

There are is such a thing as a hard gainer. The OP has my blessing FWIW.

Sandman, you do know that if you use AAS you do need to drastically up your calories to achieve your goals. You must be in a calorie surplus to gain muscle which means you will also add some degree of fat. When you go on PCT you need to continue eating big and training hard (no cardio) to keep the muscle which means, more fat. After PCT you can then diet carefully and you will lose some of the new found muscle. If you do this carefully muscle lose will be minimal. Over time, you will lose the AAS muscle if you don't cycle again. Are you prepared to continue to cycle to maintain your desired physique?

[x_SANDMAN_x]

Over time, you will lose the AAS muscle if you don't cycle again. Are you prepared to continue to cycle to maintain your desired physique?

thanks alot for all your inputs guys! I really appreciate it!

What do you mean by "you will lord the AAS muscle if you dont cycle again"? Do you mean to say that if i started cycling now and gained lets say 20 lb of muscle over the years... And then decided to give up steroids, i would loose those 20lb of muscle....and that would be the case even if i maintained a prosper diet and workout regiment?

[BJJ]

thanks alot for all your inputs guys! I really appreciate it!

What do you mean by "you will lord the AAS muscle if you dont cycle again"? Do you mean to say that if i started cycling now and gained lets say 20 lb of muscle over the years... And then decided to give up steroids, i would loose those 20lb of muscle....and that would be the case even if i maintained a prosper diet and workout regiment?

I disagree with that.
If your diet is correct and well-proportioned to the new LBM acquired with the use of aas and your workouts are in check, I see no reason why over time you would lose your muscles.

People forget the importance of the alimentary regimen.

[elpropiotorvic]

I didn't say u have to reach ur "genetic potential" but if the guy doesn't grow from food...


Steroids will probably make him grow but if he ain't eating enough to grow what's going to happen after cycle.... This is the weight he maintains now.... IMO u have to eat 8 meals I mean like I said I'm not ur mom but... U really have to know that the more muscle u carry the more u eat.. And if ur already eating 4500 caps now ur going to eat 5500 after and so on... So I say improve the diet and juice if u want ... I just think it would suck dirty balls to loose everything after just becUse of not eating

[CHUCKYthentic]

alright enough talk about whether you should or shouldnt, at this point you will ultimately make the decision. if you re ready and everything is in place go for it. there is enough advice here for you to move forward

NOW, lets talk about that cycle and PCT...

-cycle needs to be 10 to 12 weeks
-consider HCG during your cycle
-you need an AI somewhere in the mix, whether on cycle or in your PCT

Any Qs on this?
you should give us an example of what you think your PCT regimine should look like

[stpete]

alright enough talk about whether you should or shouldnt, at this point you will ultimately make the decision. if you re ready and everything is in place go for it. there is enough advice here for you to move forward

NOW, lets talk about that cycle and PCT...

-cycle needs to be 10 to 12 weeks
-consider HCG during your cycle
-you need an AI somewhere in the mix, whether on cycle or in your PCT

Any Qs on this?
you should give us an example of what you think your PCT regimine should look like

Agreed! But i suggest a 12 week cycle. And to be quite frank, i'm tired of seeing all these guys suggesting that his diet is out of whack. I have yet to see yours posted like sandman posted his. So, till you do, lay off the guy. Or, if you have the balls and know how, post yours up for us to critique. But i know you won't. The reason why, you don't know as much about your diet as he does his. Prove me wrong.
Sandman....Let's talk PCT.