lean bulking/cutting diet criticism wanted....

[dazbo]

OK Ive sorted my diet plan out for the following cycle I am going to be starting next week. Here's the Cycle -

wk 1-10 = Test prop @ 150mg EOD
wk 3-10 = VAR @40mg ED
INC Clen (Amounts TBC)

Its my second cycle After a shit one (Long story, back to same weight as I started at AFTER the cycle!! But thats enough on that now!)

My stats are -

Training 6 yrs
weight 188lbs
Height 5'10"
age 23
BF % approx 10-12%
17.5" arms, 29" waist, Chest ?!?! Broad anyway!!
Bench Max - 350lbs Bar/150lb DBells
Bi Curl - 165lbs
Shoulder Press - 250lbs bar/110lb DBells
Stiff legged (Romanian) Dead lift - 460lbs 1RM
Free Squats - 425lbs
Reverse Bent over Rows (Smiths machine) - 250lbs

My aims are to gain as much QUALITY muscle as possible, while also losing fat and dropping BF % down to single figures, strength increase would be great.

My diet is as follows -

Meal 1 -
** 4 egg whites + 0.5 cups oats
OR Oats plus Whey Protein
OR Weetabix x 4 plus Whey Protein Shake (35gprot)
OR Weetabix x 4 plus Protein Bar (Homemade - 650cals 40g prot/35g/carb/40g fat - made with peanut butter/oats/whey)
**INC Tablespoon Flax Oil**

Meal 2 -
** 2 x tuna patties (Homemade - oats/tuna/olive oil/herbs/egg whites - 217cals 25g prot/6g carbs/8g fat)
OR 100g Lean minced Beef/Turkey + Cottage cheese
OR Tin Tuna in sunflower oil Plus few Almonds

Meal 3 -
** Chicken Breasts x 2 in little marinade

Meal 4 -
** half Cooked chicken
OR Chicken Pieces (2oog)
OR Lean Meat and salad Sarnie/Pita (Wholemeal)

Meal 5 - PWO

** 33g Whey + 60g Dextrose

Meal 6 - PPWO

** Spag Bol + Wholemeal pasta
OR Chicken + Brown Rice
OR Chicken + Veg
OR Chicken + Pasta
OR Tuna/Pasta (Wholemeal)/Mayo combo
OR Tuna Bol + Wholemeal Pasta
OR Chicken Breast + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice

Meal 7 - Before Bed

** 4 Whole Eggs + Cottage Cheese + Tablespoon Flax

Supplement with High Strength Multi Vit, 2g Vit C, Glucosamine plus Chondroitin, Fish Oils.

Total cals - 4000cals
Total Protein - 440g
Total Carbs - 165g
Total Fats - 169g
Ratios of cals - 45:16:39 (P:C:F)

I hope I've included everything!! I've also attatched a picture of the diet breakdown from Fitday so you can see the details.

[taiboxa]

Bold.. no wait blue.. no GREEN! ;D

OK Ive sorted my diet plan out for the following cycle I am going to be starting next week. Here's the Cycle -

wk 1-10 = Test prop @ 150mg EOD
wk 3-10 = VAR @40mg ED
INC Clen (Amounts TBC)
in all honesty i would run ECA inplace of clen.. eca makes me happy and feel good and not so "Winded" but clen gets better results but its so much more complicated to use. So unless ur up for some constant blood pressure monitoring, dosage adjusting, and benedryl popping i would ECA it

Its my second cycle After a shit one (Long story, back to same weight as I started at AFTER the cycle!! But thats enough on that now!)

My stats are -

Training 6 yrs
weight 188lbs
Height 5'10"
age 23
BF % approx 10-12%
17.5" arms, 29" waist, Chest ?!?! Broad anyway!!
Bench Max - 350lbs Bar/150lb DBells
Bi Curl - 165lbs
Shoulder Press - 250lbs bar/110lb DBells
Stiff legged (Romanian) Dead lift - 460lbs 1RM
Free Squats - 425lbs
Reverse Bent over Rows (Smiths machine) - 250lbs

My aims are to gain as much QUALITY muscle as possible, while also losing fat and dropping BF % down to single figures, strength increase would be great.

My diet is as follows -

Meal 1 -
** 4 egg whites + 0.5 cups oats
OR Oats plus Whey Protein
OR Weetabix x 4 plus Whey Protein Shake (35gprot)
OR Weetabix x 4 plus Protein Bar (Homemade - 650cals 40g prot/35g/carb/40g fat - made with peanut butter/oats/whey)
**INC Tablespoon Flax Oil**
Go Pro Carb w/ about 12-15 egg whites 3gPro per egg white and 1/2cup Oats or cut eggwhites in half and use whey w/ it

Meal 2 -
** 2 x tuna patties (Homemade - oats/tuna/olive oil/herbs/egg whites - 217cals 25g prot/6g carbs/8g fat)
OR i like this one100g Lean minced Beef/Turkey(Watch the fat content on this Meat, if its over 8g per serving i would find another lean meat) +(MAKE IT FAT FREE COTTAGE CHEESE TO CONTROL MACRO) Cottage cheese and add some Romain Lettuce to the cottage cheese make a salad outta it or somethingOR Tin Tuna in sunflower oil Plus few Almonds GOOD TOO

Meal 3 -
** Chicken Breasts x 2 in little marinade VEGIES HERE BADLY LOTSA GREENS ATLEAST A CUP OF ASPARAGUS OR BROCCOLI OR LIKE.

Meal 4 -
** half Cooked chicken
OR Chicken Pieces (2oog)
OR Lean Meat and salad Sarnie/Pita (Wholemeal)
Personnaly for my PreWork out i do Oats and Whey both absorbed fairly quickly especially if you chop the oats in food processor to lower their density and increase their GI/II which is ok because they are still complex.

Meal 5 - PWO

** 33g Whey + 60g Dextrose For your body weight you want about 40/80 here

Meal 6 - PPWO

** Spag Bol + Wholemeal pasta
OR Chicken + Brown Rice BY FAR BEST CHOICE!!
OR Chicken + Veg
OR Chicken + Pasta
OR Tuna/Pasta (Wholemeal)/Mayo combo
OR Tuna Bol + Wholemeal Pasta
OR Chicken Breast + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice

Meal 7 - Before Bed

** 4 Whole Eggs + Cottage Cheese + Tablespoon Flax ditch the cottage chese here and dont go w/ eggs either too much fat altogether and to lil protein. Go for Lean protein w/ Flax preferabbly maybe 10 eggwhites small scoop of protein and 1tbls flax or tuna/flax try for about 35-45g LeanGood Pro and 15g EFA's
Supplement with High Strength Multi Vit, 2g Vit C, Glucosamine plus Chondroitin, Fish Oils.

Total cals - 4000cals
Total Protein - 440g Try to dec to about 380g
Total Carbs - 165g up to atleast 200gTotal Fats - 169g down this to about 100g this will put u around 3300 cals which is good for leaning up while maintaining much muscle other wise up the carbs and fat a lil more and you can try to put on some lean mass w/ minimal fat storage. Gotta really pick on .. either clean bulk or slow cut.
Ratios of cals - 45:16:39 (P:C:F) Make Adjustments you only need approx 2g Pro per lb Lean Body mass truely even w/ most gear. i would say about 360-380gPro will be ample shoot for about 45gPro per meal w/ a moderate amount of carbs.

I hope I've included everything!! I've also attatched a picture of the diet breakdown from Fitday so you can see the details.

Thank you for all the stats and variables you included.
and GOOD LUCK

[dazbo]

Bold.. no wait blue.. no GREEN! ;D

Thank you for all the stats and variables you included.
and GOOD LUCK

RIGHT!! I'm loving the response there - thanks for the effort.

OK, so heres what Im going to do going by what you've said -

Regards My Clen. I have the stuff already, so thats one reason Im using it. I have looked into the proper way to get the right dosages using basal body temp so I think Im going to give that a go. Plus, I dont have much ECA left, only enough to use pre-WO like I currently do.

As for Meal 1 - I will increase the number of eggs here to around 10 egg whites or 6 whites plus 2 scoops unflavoured whey along with half cup oats. If you could help out with how I can make all this into a breakfast I would appreciate the help there - not much of a cook!! I was going to scramble the egg whites with the oats added too if that would work ??? Im not sure ?


Meal 2 - I will try the romanian lettuce to see how I like it. The meals I listed are what I will be alternating depending on what I feel like eating.


Meal 3 - Originally I had veggies OR Rice OR pasta here but decided to change it when my macros where higher than I liked and the cals were too high. Ill add them back in there now.

Meal 4 - Right I like this idea you've gave me. I wasnt sure about addin the oats to the shake but now I know to blend it first Ill do that. I'd prefer that to eating something due to me being at work. Meals 1-4 are all ate at work!!

Meal 5 - Ill try to add extra big scoops to this shake to make it up to 40/80.

Meal 6 - This one is a pretty irregular meal really. Those are mainly the meals I have but generally its chicken breasts with rice/veg/pasta. Ill try and keep it to them 3 but sometimes it will have to vary due to my wife eating this same meal at same time so I cant expect her to make different stuff for us both!

Meal 7 - Right, thats changed now to tuna with flax before bed. thats easier anyway!!

As for what you say regarding the macros. I would like to keep my fats reasonably high because I beleive that (From my reading and research etc) you need as many GOOD fats as possible which will help reduce BF, increase hormones and therefore increase gains. I will have upped my carbs a bit by doing the above things you stated. I will see how things have changed when I enter them into fitday.

Also, I suppose, really, you could say that the what I would really like (If I have to choose which I guess I do!) is to increase size more so than decreasing BF. As long as my BF doesnt go UP while on this cycle (Preferably a slight drop) then I will be happy. So, I suppose I should have a few more quality carbs.

OK, thats it I think. And thanks again for that great reply.

Anymore criticism is welcome.

thanks

[dazbo]

Right heres the final Diet -

Meal 1 –
• 10 egg whites scrambled with 1 cups oats (1)
• Oats with Protein Powder (3)
• Weetabix with Protein Shake (4)
• Weetabix with Protein Bar (2)
• ALL PLUS 1TBSP FLAX OIL

Meal 2 –
• 2 x Tuna Patties (3)
• 100g Lean turkey Mince + Cottage Cheese (1)
• Tin Tuna + Walnuts (2)
• ALL PLUS 1 x BANANA


Meal 3 –
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + ¾ cup Brown Rice (2)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Veg (1)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Pasta (Wholemeal) (3)


Meal 4 –
• Whey Protein + 0.5cup Oats (Blended)



Meal 5 –PWO
• 40g Whey Protein + 80g Dextrose


Meal 6 –
• Spag Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (7)
• Chicken + Brown Rice (1)
• Chicken + Veg (2)
• Chicken + Pasta (Wholemeal) (3)
• Tuna, Pasta, Mayo (5)
• Tuna Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (6)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice (4)

Meal 7 -
• Tin Tuna + Tablespoon Flax Oil
Meal 8 -
• Walnuts and Peanuts snacking throughout the day


This works out as - 3800 calories 376g Protein 318g Carbs 122g Fat

How's that ???

[taiboxa]

DONT start Clen till your completely off ECA.. i really dont reccomend using them together or in any kind of cycle... i retardedly used clen and eca in conjuction DONT KNOW HOW but i did and i thought i was going to DIE.. i had worst hedache ever, chest pains, just like total death. so use those at your discression in any manner you wish just my warning.

RIGHT!! I'm loving the response there - thanks for the effort.

OK, so heres what Im going to do going by what you've said -

Regards My Clen. I have the stuff already, so thats one reason Im using it. I have looked into the proper way to get the right dosages using basal body temp so I think Im going to give that a go. Plus, I dont have much ECA left, only enough to use pre-WO like I currently do.

As for Meal 1 - I will increase the number of eggs here to around 10 egg whites or 6 whites plus 2 scoops unflavoured whey along with half cup oats. If you could help out with how I can make all this into a breakfast I would appreciate the help there - not much of a cook!! I was going to scramble the egg whites with the oats added too if that would work ??? Im not sure ?
Well i would cook the OldFashion oats on stove w/ water, put eggwhites in microwave for a few minutes and drink the protein.


Meal 2 - I will try the romanian lettuce to see how I like it. The meals I listed are what I will be alternating depending on what I feel like eating.
any green veggies are good but romain is best lettuce.


Meal 3 - Originally I had veggies OR Rice OR pasta here but decided to change it when my macros where higher than I liked and the cals were too high. Ill add them back in there now.

Meal 4 - Right I like this idea you've gave me. I wasnt sure about addin the oats to the shake but now I know to blend it first Ill do that. I'd prefer that to eating something due to me being at work. Meals 1-4 are all ate at work!!
i drink my shake about 1-1.25hrs before liftn that whey the whey is fully absorbed and oats are half way there, i also add 5g of Free aminos-to each their own

Meal 5 - Ill try to add extra big scoops to this shake to make it up to 40/80.

Meal 6 - This one is a pretty irregular meal really. Those are mainly the meals I have but generally its chicken breasts with rice/veg/pasta. Ill try and keep it to them 3 but sometimes it will have to vary due to my wife eating this same meal at same time so I cant expect her to make different stuff for us both! this is your PPWO and is 2nd most important meal.. as to your PWO which is numero Uno... this Meal needs LEAN PROTEIN w/ LIL AS FAT AS POSSIBLE, and a high starchy carb like white rice or potato ... rice is better by a lil bit no veggies or fiber ... you want FAST absorbtion and you wanna eat about 1hr after shake. and this meal supresses the catabolic state and induces an anabolism so yeah its important

Meal 7 - Right, thats changed now to tuna with flax before bed. thats easier anyway!!

As for what you say regarding the macros. I would like to keep my fats reasonably high because I beleive that (From my reading and research etc) you need as many GOOD fats as possible which will help reduce BF, increase hormones and therefore increase gains. I will have upped my carbs a bit by doing the above things you stated. I will see how things have changed when I enter them into fitday.
Carbs are crucial for muscle reconstruction and i have found best gains for me commin from a 50/35/15 or 50/30/20 ratio P/C/F but everyone is diff...

Also, I suppose, really, you could say that the what I would really like (If I have to choose which I guess I do!) is to increase size more so than decreasing BF. As long as my BF doesnt go UP while on this cycle (Preferably a slight drop) then I will be happy. So, I suppose I should have a few more quality carbs.
Eat Clean and Very lil body fat will be stored as long as you dont exceed your daily calorie expenditure by about 200 cal.

OK, thats it I think. And thanks again for that great reply.

Anymore criticism is welcome.

thanks

[dazbo]

theres a slight error in my above diet. I put 10 egg whites for Meal 1 where as it is actually going to be 5 egg whites and 5 whole eggs in order to up my calories a little bit. I know its higher in fat but they are at least good fats.

My maintenance calories are 3400 cals and I will now be consuming 3800cals. This way I think its good for building a little muscle yeah ???

Oh yeah, and I wont be using the ECA AT ALL while on Clen, I know this is bad!

[dazbo]

Oh yeah, and I've now dropped the banana so my final diet is -

Meal 1 –
• 10 egg whites scrambled with 1 cups oats (1)
• Oats with Protein Powder (3)
• Weetabix with Protein Shake (4)
• Weetabix with Protein Bar (2)
• ALL PLUS 1TBSP FLAX OIL

Meal 2 –
• 2 x Tuna Patties (3)
• 100g Lean turkey Mince + Cottage Cheese (1)
• Tin Tuna + Walnuts (2)

Meal 3 –
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + ¾ cup Brown Rice (2)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Veg (1)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Pasta (Wholemeal) (3)


Meal 4 –
• Whey Protein + 0.5cup Oats (Blended)



Meal 5 –PWO
• 40g Whey Protein + 80g Dextrose


Meal 6 –
• Spag Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (7)
• Chicken + Brown Rice (1)
• Chicken + Veg (2)
• Chicken + Pasta (Wholemeal) (3)
• Tuna, Pasta, Mayo (5)
• Tuna Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (6)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice (4)

Meal 7 -
• Tin Tuna + Tablespoon Flax Oil
Meal 8 -
• Walnuts and Peanuts snacking throughout the day

thanks again

[taiboxa]

Rule of thumb try to get 45g Pro each meal w/ either 15-20g Fat or 35-45g Carb something along those lines... and Really keep ur PPWO constant just suck it up and eat a LEAN MEAT and HIGH GI Carb EVERY TIME

Oh yeah, and I've now dropped the banana so my final diet is -

Meal 1 –
• 10 egg whites scrambled with 1 cups oats (1)
• Oats with Protein Powder (3)
• Weetabix with Protein Shake (4)
• Weetabix with Protein Bar (2)
• ALL PLUS 1TBSP FLAX OIL

Meal 2 –
• 2 x Tuna Patties (3)
• 100g Lean turkey Mince + Cottage Cheese (1)
• Tin Tuna + Walnuts (2)

Meal 3 –
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + ¾ cup Brown Rice (2)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Veg (1) need real carbs or real fats to otherwise body will use protein for fuel.. thats why you need alt source of fat/carb so protein goes to muscles.
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Pasta (Wholemeal) (3)


Meal 4 –
• Whey Protein + 0.5cup Oats (Blended)



Meal 5 –PWO
• 40g Whey Protein + 80g Dextrose


Meal 6 – THIS IS YOUR PPWO and you want NO FAT IN IT because this slows down protein synthesis... so
• Spag Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (7) Not really a good idea no real protein no real good HIGH GI Carb...
• Chicken + Brown Rice (1)
• Chicken + Veg (2) NEED HIGH GI CARB HERE Rice Potato yam...
• Chicken + Pasta (Wholemeal) (3)
• Tuna, Pasta, Mayo (5) Horrible fat is BAD
• Tuna Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (6)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice (4)

Meal 7 -
• Tin Tuna + Tablespoon Flax Oil
Meal 8 -
• Walnuts and Peanuts snacking throughout the day

thanks again

[dazbo]

OK what I'll now do is take those options for my PPWO meal out - the ones in bold you say. Cos what you are sayin makes sense.
I'll also remove my Meal 3 Veg too.
Would Jacket potato or some form of potatoes be good with PPWO meal cos they're V high on GI scale???

[taiboxa]

OK what I'll now do is take those options for my PPWO meal out - the ones in bold you say. Cos what you are sayin makes sense.
I'll also remove my Meal 3 Veg too.
Would Jacket potato or some form of potatoes be good with PPWO meal cos they're V high on GI scale???

nono keep vegies ned LOTS of veggies just add to that meal because veggies dont count as carb or fat because their caloric value is so minimal.

[dazbo]

Ok here goes - think this is the final Cut !!

Meal 1 –
• 10 egg whites scrambled with 1 cups oats (1)
• Oats with Protein Powder (3)
• Weetabix with Protein Shake (4)
• Weetabix with Protein Bar (2)
• ALL PLUS 1TBSP FLAX OIL
48g Prot 58g carbs 5g fat 476 cals

Meal 2 –
• 2 x Tuna Patties (3)
• 100g Lean turkey Mince + Cottage Cheese (1)
• Tin Tuna + Walnuts (2)
50g prot 13g carbs 17g fat 434 cals
Meal 3 –
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + ¾ cup Brown Rice + Veg (1)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Pasta (Wholemeal) (2)
78g prot 62g carbs 3g fat 587 cals

Meal 4 –
• Whey Protein + 0.5cup Oats (Blended)
39g prot 32g carbs 6g fat 316 cals

Meal 5 –PWO
• 40g Whey Protein + 80g Dextrose
33g prot 81g carbs 3g fat 465 cals

Meal 6 –
• Chicken + Brown Rice + Veg (1)
• Chicken + Pasta (Wholemeal) (2)
• Tuna, Pasta, Mayo (4)
• Tuna Bol + Pasta (Wholemeal) (5)
• Chicken Breasts x 2 + Curry Sauce + Brown Rice (3)
78g prot 62g carbs 3g fat 587 cals

Meal 7 -
• Tin Tuna + Tablespoon Flax Oil
7g prot 0g carbs 28g fat 277 cals
Meal 8 -
• Walnuts and Peanuts snacking throughout the day
9g prot 8g carbs 37g fat 371 cals


Totals = 3500cals 342g Prot 316g Carbs 102g Fat Ratios = 39:36:26 (P:C:F)

[taiboxa]

looks good but i wouldnt snack on nuts all day ..

[dazbo]

LOL god this is hard work !!

I need to be at least 3400 cals a day if I want to gain some weight as well though and nuts seem the best item I can include or take away as and when needed. If I was to be keeping my cals below my maintenance then I would prob not gain much extra muscle although I would lose all the fat!

So Ill stick with it as it is, keeping the nuts and see how things go for the first few weeks then Ill adjust if needed after that.

Thanks for all your help mate

darren

[taiboxa]

eat beef jerky w/ those nuts then...

[dazbo]

WTF is beef jerky ??!!! Must be an american thing !!!

[dazbo]

Right I have just prepared my food for work tomorrow. Its the first time Ive tried cottage cheese and I cant stand it! I tried it on its own a spoonful, and didnt like it. Anyways, I put a big tub in the pan along with turkey mince and some herbs. It didnt turn out too good as I had to drain a lot of fluid from the cottage cheese (I dont know if this is good or bad - lost half the cottage cheese or not ???).

Anyway, I added some white cheddar too it to spice up the flavour and give a little more protein. After it was done (I also drained most of the fat/oil) I tried it, but although it wasnt too bad, I can still taste the cottage cheese!!!

So basically, I cant have this anymore after this weeks worth that Ive just made!!

Is there anything else I can use instead of cottage cheese in that meal ?? (Meal number 2, option 1) Maybe thinking if I just used 50g more mince then just ate that Id be happier ??? Would that be OK ??

thanks

Darren

[dazbo]

bump

[dazbo]

bump

[dazbo]

Right, this is what Ive had to eat today, yesterday was slightly diff but not a great deal when it came to the macro's and cals etc. Ive attatched a pic to this post for your perusal.