Burning Fat

[Dalton5]

I realize there is alot on thhis but opinions seem to vary......im coming of a cycle and would like to burn a little fat, ill be running clen for its fat burning and anti catabolic properties. I was wondering what the most effective way to do cardio without eating muscle would be......slow and steady for no more then 30 min a couple of times a week, OR high intensity interval training instead?

[sputnik]

sprints ie. interval training

[SPIKE]

I realize there is alot on thhis but opinions seem to vary......im coming of a cycle and would like to burn a little fat, ill be running clen for its fat burning and anti catabolic properties. I was wondering what the most effective way to do cardio without eating muscle would be......slow and steady for no more then 30 min a couple of times a week, OR high intensity interval training instead?

Since you're coming off a cycle the Clen will help in more then one way, you already stated them.


Now as far as my experience and knowledge I can tell you what I think is better. Obviously there will be mixed results and opinions but I can tell you what has worked for me a for over a couple of hundred clients that I have worked with over the past 6 years.

The very most important thing for fat loss will always be diet. Making sure you are slightly below maintenence cal level is a must. I dont want to get too much into it since this is a workout question but diet is a total must.

To answer your question, I'm assuming that you're talking strictly about PWO cardio not AM cardio. But to first talk about "without eating muscle" theres a fine line. To avoid that I consume a few BCAA's prior to my workout and a few more throughout. That's going to help b/c if your body tries dipping to muscle it can eat away at the BCAA instead of the muscle, and its a calorie free supp.

Now for cardio, find your THR (Target Heart Rate) hold on to that number b/c you're going to need it later. After you're done training I'd jump on the treadmill and run at a steady pace. Take a minute or so and get up to your THR. That is where you are going to lose the most amount of fat. You want a steady pace where you can strip as much fat as possible in that time period. Duration over intensity is important. Try to start off to 3X a week PWO and see how that goes. Get your BF% checked once every other week minimally. Considering that you're coming off you want to make sure whatever weight you're losing is purely fat and no hard earned muscle.

Hopefully that helps. I can really keep typing for days on this subject but I dont want to get too off topic. I'd get more into Diet.


Here is a link to find your THR if you dont know it already
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...39#post2267439



In saying all of this remember that any unaccustomed stimulus will always be best. Dont just stick to what I said, switch it up a bit to keep your body guessing.

[Smak]

Yes stay within THR. 65-75% is recommended for fat burning. 45 minutes 3 times a week would be sufficient enough to burn fat because it takes a good 20 minutes before you reach your THR. 30 minutes would be leaving you with only 10 minutes of fat burning potential. Other than that Jay is right on.

[SPIKE]

it takes a good 20 minutes before you reach your THR. 30 minutes would be leaving you with only 10 minutes of fat burning potential.

YES YES YES!!!! Totally correct and I left that part out. I get so into it where my mind is telling me 10 differnt things to say all realted to the same topic, I think that adds to the part where I said I can type for pages on this subject.

To better answer that comment Smak, that's why I said to do the cardio PWO. That was one of the biggest key factors. The reasoning behind that you already answered. I'm pretty sure I got more in depth with that in the other post I listed on THR.


Good eye Smak!!! You are the man!!!

[Smak]

No problem bruthuh. I usually do my cardio at night when I come home from work. I just make sure that my last meal was 2 hours before I do it so it's on a empty stomach.

[chest6]

I believe in morning cardio on empty etc etc. I think im going to do sputniks approach and do sprint training in the afternoon like once or twice a week. I have stubborn lower ab/love handle fat that pisses me off. Honestly I have never tried PWO cardio..that sounds interesting

[SPIKE]

I believe in morning cardio on empty etc etc.

I TOTALLY agree with you. When I'm really strict the combination of PWO and AM is unbeatable. That way you have more options to add some sprinting to the regimen.


I didnt want to get too much into that b/c I didnt want to steer to far away from his question. I try to stick to the main idea of the question but with a topic like this there is so much to talk about

[chest6]

cardio twice a day? Ive been thinking about that lately. Def. so much to talk about when cardio and fatloss is involved.

[Keyser Sozey]

I must agree w/ what Jay and Smak say. Either early morning, or 4-5 hours after last carb meal, and performed for at least 45 minutes.

[chest6]

yup..I agree about the at least 45 mins. Lately..ive been hittin 47-48 mins.

[Pinnacle]

cardio twice a day? .

On my "off"days,I do cardio twice daily.Whether I'm cutting or not.


~Pinnacle~

[Dalton5]

wow, getting more responses then i thought i would, thanks alot for the input fellas

[sputnik]

45 mins of cardio 3x per week????

Why do that when you can spend 15 mins 3 times per week doing sprints and ensuring you don’t burn muscle?

Doing 45 mins of cardio that often will, like it or not, burn fat AND waste muscle. Not ideal for someone who wants to ‘retain’ muscle.

Dalton5, I suggest you read up about sprint training and decide what’s best for you.

Hey Chest6, are you going to look into the Ab-Solved? If you do, let us know how you go with it. Might as well take advantage of islandsupps discount on their already cheap 420 price IF you decide to.

[Smak]

45 mins of cardio 3x per week????

Why do that when you can spend 15 mins 3 times per week doing sprints and ensuring you don’t burn muscle?

Doing 45 mins of cardio that often will, like it or not, burn fat AND waste muscle. Not ideal for someone who wants to ‘retain’ muscle.

Dalton5, I suggest you read up about sprint training and decide what’s best for you.

Hey Chest6, are you going to look into the Ab-Solved? If you do, let us know how you go with it. Might as well take advantage of islandsupps discount on their already cheap 420 price IF you decide to.

45 minutes at a target rate of 60-75% won't burn muscle. Just stick between that zone and you will be ok. How often do you see bodybuilders doing sprints? Not too often because they're too big. Incline walk on the treadmill at a target heart rate of 65-75% works great for me first thing in the morning or after work on a empty stomach for 45 minutes. 3x times a week is really nothing. When I cut I do cardio ED for 30 minutes at THR of 65% and I stay lean as hell without burning muscle. Remember simple way to find your MTHR for effective fat burning is with the simple formula.

Weight - 20 x .65 to .75 = MTHR Fat burning zone that you should shoot for.

[sputnik]

So because you don’t see bodybuilders sprinting, then it means sprinting its no good? . However, you are wrong, lots of bodybuilders sprint.

So since I see few bodybuilders squatting, or when they do, not even going to parallel, then obviously there must be little value in either squatting or going down as low as you can?

And let's see, jogging for 45 mins instead of doign a mixture of sprints and walking for 15 mins. Do the maths.

And Smak, i suggest you go to the mindandmuscle link below and read about sprints.

[Smak]

So because you don’t see bodybuilders sprinting, then it means sprinting its no good? . However, you are wrong, lots of bodybuilders sprint.

So since I see few bodybuilders squatting, or when they do, not even going to parallel, then obviously there must be little value in either squatting or going down as low as you can?

And let's see, jogging for 45 mins instead of doign a mixture of sprints and walking for 15 mins. Do the maths.

And Smak, i suggest you go to the mindandmuscle link below and read about sprints.

I never said sprinting wasn't effective, but it's not really my ideal way of doing cardio especially if you're a bodybuilder. Maybe it's different in australia where you're from, but I don't see too many 300 bodybuilders sprint? I think i've only seen one and that is Kevin Levrone, but he was originally a sprinter. Any other bber would be out of breath. Now if you're not a bodybuilder which maybe you aren't then more power to you. BTW your perception of 45 minutes of cardio is totally off. I don't jog, but if you read my earlier post you would have saw that I stay within my max target heart rate which is a light, brisk 45 walk on the incline treadmill three times a week for fat burning. With sprints there is no way to tell this. BTW I don't squat and your statement about squatting doesn't prove anything. Lots of bodybuilders don't squat, however I know that alot wouldn't use sprints as their first choice for cardio, but that's not even relevant to the question. And sputnik I suggest you hit the search button and learn about Maximum target heart rate.

[sputnik]

As you correctly point out, sprinting is not YOUR ideal way of doing cardio. And believe it or not I was talking about bodybuilders in the US. Also, could you elaborate on whether you are talking about professional bodybuilders or about most of the people on this board? I would say most people on this board are not 300lbs and therefore would have no problem in sprinting. The problem is almost everybody thinks you have to jog in order to lose fat.

And yes my example about squatting is relevant in so far as you were referring to what bodybuilders do. So what, what they do. Just as who cares whether bodybuilders don’t squat, which many actually do.

Oh and 45 mins of cardio, still adds up to 45mins of cardio no matter what you do.

[Smak]

You're wrong. 45 mins of cardio is dependent on your goals and not all the same. If you're a bodybuilder and looking to burn fat, but keep muscle then you shoot for 60-75% of your Max HR. I say 45 minutes because your Max TH doesn't kick in until around 20 minutes. So this gives you 25 minutes of effective fat burning. Example is a light walk on the incline treadmill.

If you are a performance athlete, you want to exceed just above 85% or so for 30-60 minutes. If you run cardio above 75% or so, your body cannot mobilize fat rapidly enough to use it as fuel, so it switches to muscle glycogen. When the muscle glycogen is depleted, it will turn to the muscles proteins themselves. Sprinting would be relevant to this.

[sputnik]

Well that is not correct and is not set in stone Smak. I used to jog and hit that Max HR you talk about as if it’s magic and I lost fat AND muscle, as have most people I know. And with myself and many, it gets to a point where the fat loss stops.

The beauty about interval training/sprints is you can manipulate the time/intensity variables however you want, without the need to do cardio for at least 30 mins three times per week. So when you plateau with a certain regimen, you just change it up. And in fact I only sprint twice per week.

Smak could you at least have a read of the article and let me know what you think?

[Keyser Sozey]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but does anyone want a Corona w/ a lime?

I love everyone here....Not in that way though

[Smak]

Well that is not correct and is not set in stone Smak. I used to jog and hit that Max HR you talk about as if it’s magic and I lost fat AND muscle, as have most people I know. And with myself and many, it gets to a point where the fat loss stops.

The beauty about interval training/sprints is you can manipulate the time/intensity variables however you want, without the need to do cardio for at least 30 mins three times per week. So when you plateau with a certain regimen, you just change it up. And in fact I only sprint twice per week.

Smak could you at least have a read of the article and let me know what you think?

People's max TH's differ so jogging to you may be a fast pace walk for me to get my max TH where I want it to be. BTW How did you calculate your max TH when you say you were jogging and losing fat? If you were doing it correctly staying between 60-75% of your max HT, then you shouldn't be losing muscle mass unless your diet really sucks. Are you doing it first thing in the morning and on empty stomach? There's lots of things that factor into this.

Interval training probably is a good form of cardio for some and I never said it wasn't effective, however I'll reiterate once more that I can't see that many 250 plus bodybuilders using it as their staple form of cardio. It's also more of a seasonal form of cardio where I'm from. I can use the treadmill year round and always know what my max HR which is more practical for myself.

On one final note, I will take a look at the article.

[Smak]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but does anyone want a Corona w/ a lime?

I love everyone here....Not in that way though

pass one over here bruh! and gimme the beach that comes with it!

[Keyser Sozey]

You can have two Coronas, mi amigo.
Btw, I agree w/ your post #22, just don't ask me to elaborate right now

No beach for you mistah, not until you pick up your boy, who is fvkkin wasted right now.
WOOOOOT!

[sputnik]

I had forgot to say in my last post that we may have to agree to disagree, and no hard feelings

I do also see the value in jogging (for example i jog 2mins to the park to do my sprints and then jog back ), but all too often I see people getting frustrated with it and losing fat and muscle, resulting in little change to body composition. And also, I could be wrong, but I would say a lot of the people on this site are much smaller than 250lbs and not bodybuilders.

I jogged a long time ago so I can’t remember my diet at the time, but it was all good. Since then I just sprint two times per week, together with powerlifting/Olympic lifting and it has made all the difference to body composition.

let us know your thoughts when you've read it.

[sputnik]

You can have two Coronas, mi amigo.
Btw, I agree w/ your post #22, just don't ask me to elaborate right now

No beach for you mistah, not until you pick up your boy, who is fvkkin wasted right now.
WOOOOOT!

watch it Keyser LOL

actually i have 2 Corona's in the fridge at home

[Smak]

LOL he's krunked. There's no hope for ol Keyzer Sozey.

[sputnik]

I'd say so

Smak, that's not you in your avatar is it???

[Smak]

I'd say so

Smak, that's not you in your avatar is it???

Maybe

Nah man, look at my profile. LOL. I have a pic of me in it.

[Keyser Sozey]

watch it Keyser LOL

actually i have 2 Corona's in the fridge at home

What hapenned to the other ten?

LOL he's krunked. There's no hope for ol Keyzer Sozey.

I can hang.....I've been drinking since 6pm EST.

What thread were we in again?

[Pinnacle]

I'm sorry to interrupt, but does anyone want a Corona w/ a lime?

ROFL

[sputnik]

Maybe

Nah man, look at my profile. LOL. I have a pic of me in it.

u got me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sputnik]

What hapenned to the other ten?



I can hang.....I've been drinking since 6pm EST.

What thread were we in again?

What happened to the other 10? I reckon u made ur wa into my fridge is what

[Dalton5]

Your all a bunch of whores haha......thanks for tryin to help though. But this just takes me back to square one where the jury seems to be out on this one.

[sputnik]

well I urge to read the article at least. and you could always try both approaches for a few weeks each.

[SPIKE]

Even though this thread looks like its coming to an end I still have to add my .02 cents.


Sputnik, I see where you're coming from when leaning towards sprinting. It's a great cardio workout and you will lose some BF. I also incorporate it in my personal workouts. But to answer Daltons question "I was wondering what the most effective way to do cardio without eating muscle would be" I would still have to coincide with Smak and go with Cardio at THR.

I get my BF% tested quite frequently when leaning down, roughly every 2 weeks or so. And when following the regimen I previously listed I definitely see much more of a consistent BF loss. But.......................I"m not ruling out your method. I always use a word with my clients as I used in this thread, unaccustomed stimulus. In saying that I think its best if cardio is performed at about 30 minutes after resistence training 3-4X a week. And......................When I"m really trying to rip up I"ll skip some days of cardio and sprint. But that too will have to be after resistence training.

If a person just goes out in the middle of the day and sprints for 30 minutes that will definitely build up more stamina but will not be the most effective way of losing the most amount of fat in a X amount of time.

Once again, I"m not saying that your method is wrong, I just think that if a person had to pick due to lets say a time factor, the method that was mentioned would be most effective. I like sprinting and will keep doing so, but I can never miss out on my 3-4X a week Post Resistence

[sputnik]

That's cool Jayhova.

I would however say that doign sprints is more time efficient, at only 15mins per session. Im not sure where you got 30 ins of sprinting. Due to the higher intensity, one need not go anywhere near this long.Again, I only sprint 2x per week.

Anyways, please have a read of the article, as I would strongly argue that sprinting is the most efficient way of doing cardio,losing fat and maitaining or even to spport muscular growth, especially the legs.

However, reading one thing, real world results are another. Having clients, why not try it out with a couple of clients? Just a suggestion. I mean in my case and others I know, we have been on both sides of the fence and have compared the results, and sprints have been far superior. You occasionally do sprints, but have never done them exclusively. I suggest you or one of your clients exclusively do interval training/sprints so you can compare the results. I can see you may be hesitant to do this given this is not what you're used to, but once you see the results and the time it saves, you may build them into your arsenal.

[sputnik]

oh and yes i do agree, that cardio after weight training is great.

[Giantz11]

That's cool Jayhova.

I would however say that doign sprints is more time efficient, at only 15mins per session. Im not sure where you got 30 ins of sprinting. Due to the higher intensity, one need not go anywhere near this long.Again, I only sprint 2x per week.

Anyways, please have a read of the article, as I would strongly argue that sprinting is the most efficient way of doing cardio,losing fat and maitaining or even to spport muscular growth, especially the legs.

However, reading one thing, real world results are another. Having clients, why not try it out with a couple of clients? Just a suggestion. I mean in my case and others I know, we have been on both sides of the fence and have compared the results, and sprints have been far superior. You occasionally do sprints, but have never done them exclusively. I suggest you or one of your clients exclusively do interval training/sprints so you can compare the results. I can see you may be hesitant to do this given this is not what you're used to, but once you see the results and the time it saves, you may build them into your arsenal.

I know where you are coming from Sputnik, as I too have read Loki's article

However, weight training is very similar to sprinting, because they are both high intensity and both are anaeorobic. And since both are glycogen dependent, both elevate FFA oxidation. So you can do weight traning and low intensity cardio and get the best of both worlds and mix it up. One thing however I'm thinking of maybe doing at some point, it doing sprints on my off days. However with sprints you also need to proper nutrition, because it should be treated just like weights.

[sputnik]

At last, someone who's read the article

Good points.