Do you have any questions about the Bible?

[Titleist]

Thanks alot for taking the time to reply, Magic.

Obviously, the less we understand something, the more we will question it. I definitely have a deeper understanding of my questions now.

I understand that God can't really police the world, otherwise we wouldn't be "free" to do what we want. I guess it's just hard to see someone that is doing everything right pass on, while others are doing everything wrong and not being punished. In time I guess...

Again, thanks.

[midnight777]

very interesting thread.... to each his own. We all can admit there is a Greater Power out there. we will know some day...

[Tock]

very interesting thread.... to each his own. We all can admit there is a Greater Power out there. we will know some day...

I'll betcha we won't (won't "know some day").
I'll betcha that once we die, that once our friends dig a hole and throw our corpse in it and cover us up with dirt, that all that will happen is that we decompose. And that'll be it.

Seems to me that is what happens to everything else that dies -- dogs, cats, rats, fish, plants, etc -- its immune system stops working and little bugs and bacteria make everything decompose.

Anyone have any evidence that anything other than that ever happens? Anyone have any evidence that such a thing as a "soul" exists? Can it be seen, measured, photographed? Do you know anyone who knows how to detect and measure a soul? Probably not. Yet, some folks seem to think they can tell you all about a thing that they haven't ever seen.

IMHO, these people who purport to know all about what happens to your soul, should be required to demonstrate the proof of what they say, the same way that anyone else who advertises a product or service does. Until they do, they are only "flim - flam" men. Snakeoil salesmen.

==========================

Sister Paula on Rev. Ted Haggard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT6NcjlpQPc

[magic32]

Welcome back Tock.
Just can't get this little thread out of your head huh?
-----------------------
So in your eyes, mankind is like the animals?
They merely live, die, and are no more.

What a sad, meaningless existence that must be!
----------------------
As for flim-flam men and snake oil salesmen Xerxes, Napoleon, Alexander, and Hitler all had extremely large contingencies.

But that Jesus character, WOW!
Let's see there's...

• a holiday for His birth
• a holiday for His death
• a holiday for His resurrection
• and the very measurement of time itself is based on Him...BC and AD

That's quite a salesman, good thing he didn't peddle used camels (the automobile equivalent).

[Tock]

So in your eyes, mankind is like the animals?

No, not like the animals. Mankind is an animal.

They merely live, die, and are no more.

What a sad, meaningless existence that must be!

It's lots better than what you tell people -- that the vast majority of people who ever lived are going to roast in Hellfire for billions upon billions of ages, for having commited the sin of having an honest unbeleif.

Aside from that -- just because people "live, die, and are no more," that is certainly no reason to make up a fiction to console yourself for the disappointment of our short life span. Sure, it suc-s to die after 70 or 80 years. But since this is the only life we are ever going to get, that's why it's so important to make sure you live your life while you can, and not get tied up in some stupid religious fiction.

As for flim-flam men and snake oil salesmen Xerxes, Napoleon, Alexander, and Hitler all had extremely large contingencies.

But that Jesus character, WOW!
Let's see there's...

• a holiday for His birth
• a holiday for His death
• a holiday for His resurrection
• and the very measurement of time itself is based on Him...BC and AD

That's quite a salesman, good thing he didn't peddle used camels (the automobile equivalent).

Nevertheless, most people on this planet are not Christian. And most people who do call themselves Christian are mostly ignorant of what the Bible says, what Jesus said, and what the tenants of their religious group's faith are. It's the rare Christian that can list more than 3 of the Ten Commandments, much less talk about who actually wrote the Bible, and when it was written. In short, few Christians know anything about what they beleive.
Theologians have widely differing views on just about everything connected with the Bible. Thousands of Christian denominations exist, from Presbyterians who beleive that once you're saved, you're always saved, no matter what you do -- to Christians who beleive that it's important to handle snakes to demonstrate your faith in God. Many theologians consider the Bible to be a work inspired by God, and many more do not agree. Some beleive in a literal Hell, many more do not. Some theologians (of several different Christian denominations) beleive that if you don't beleive the way they do, then you will go to Hell. Which one of them is, as they phrase it, "The One True Church?" Yours? Theirs? Someone else's?

The truth is, that the Christian religion, and its Bible, is one big fiction. Sure, there are some parts of the Bible that contain references to ancient historical places and events; but so what? Lots of contemporary fiction stories do, too. It doesn't make all of it true.


Even if most people on this planet were Christian, not a single fact about the Bible would change. The number of beleivers would not affect the truth of what they beleived. The fictions that fill the bible's pages would not change to historical truth. Noah's Ark still would not have held hundreds of thousands of animals plus 14 months of food and water; Kangaroos would still be unable to have swum across the ocean to live in Australia. And the Hebrews would still not have been led out of Egypt by Moses, and the Egyptian military would still not have been decimated, as the Bible says. And many pages of the Bible would still have been written by anonymous writers many years later than Conservative Fundamentalist Theologians would like to admit.

Nevertheless, beleive what you like. If you need a self-deception to help deal with the disappointment of mortality, I understand.

[magic32]

Isn't it interesting how you're compelled to return to this thread day after day? I know it pops up as a subscription, but even with the possibility to unsubscribe, still you come, like an unwilling moth to a bright light. You should the examine REASON for that.

No, not like the animals. Mankind is an animal.

Let's drop the Bible for a moment and delve into Bio and Phl for a while. I'll counter your statement by going chicken and egg on this one. If man is an animal where did he come from? And please don't parrot the wildly preposterous theory of Evolution, because with NO smoking gun it simply crumbles. Anything that evolves requires time, and life necessitates even more, plus leaves well defined vestiges (traces). Cars for example clearly illustrate the Model T, the '67 Mustang, the '07 Lexus SUV, and everything in between.

Where, animal man, are ALL of your in betweens? We should be tripping over the plethora of missing link fossils between EACH species...since biological evolution is SOOOOO very slow we can't see it (which doesn't seem to bother you half as much as our inability to see God), as well as uncovering ENTIRE civilizations of Neanderthals from 30,000 to 200,000 years ago. Yet, all I see are a couple of poorly constructed hoaxes.

And this is how you come to me...speaking of truth?
My truth hinges not on blind sheep-like obedience, but on:

• HISTORY...Christ was here and did what the Bible said, else He wouldn't be remembered and honored as He is. It chronologically notes KNOWN events and lives, paralleling them with specific rulers and lands.
• SCIENCE...the Bible explains things long before science knew them to be so, and actually ridiculed it for, only to later prove and support them.
• GEOGRAPHY...the Bible doesn't just spout information, it often gives precise locations that have been authenticated by archeological and anthropologic findings for which it was the sole source.
• PROPHECY...it foretells numerous events, lives and actions that have indeed come true, and I'm not speaking of the so-called self-fulfilling prophecies or interpolated occurrences.
• and FAITH.

I'd much rather believe in a Christ who certainly lived and did what no human could, a God created world (because TRULY there is no other alternative) and the 'Creation of Man' than flimsy falsehoods and wholly unsubstantiated theories cloaked in the guise of true science. So I'll keep reading the Bible, and leave to you such UTTERLY FANTASTIC beliefs like...

"You are an animal and share a common heritage with earthworms......."
-Biology, Visualizing Life, Johnson, Holt Rinehart Winston, 1994

And you speak of self-deception???

Nevertheless, believe what you like. If you need a self-deception to help deal with the disappointment of mortality, I understand.

I speak of Satan deception.

Tock,

The Wachowski brothers said it well:

MORPHEUS
It is the world that has been pulled
over your eyes to blind you from
the truth.

NEO
What truth?

MORPHEUS
That you are a slave, Neo. Like
everyone else, you were born into
bondage, kept inside a prison that
you cannot smell, taste, or touch.
A prison for your mind.

Tock,

Stop taking the blue pill, and running from God.
Stop seeking the living amongst the dead.

He said that if you seek Him, He will not be far from you...so challenge that, put the onus back on God and let Him reveal Himself to you, or be a liar:

• Jer 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.
• Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
• Luk 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

I've given you the message, and extended myself as a tool, so God Bless...

• Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

[Tock]

Isn't it interesting how you're compelled to return to this thread day after day? I know it pops up as a subscription, but even with the possibility to unsubscribe, still you come, like an unwilling moth to a bright light. You should the examine REASON for that.

Some people rubberneck around a wreck on the freeway. Me, I hang around threads like these. What can I say?

And you speak of self-deception???
I speak of Satan deception.

That's another thing that nobody has ever seen. Satan.
People who study the history of the Bible for a living will tell you that the concept of Satan wasn't added to Hebrew religious thought until they were taken captive around 600 BC by the Assyrians. Their captors had what's called a "bipolar deity." In Zoroastrianism, the "good god" Ahura Mazda is constantly in a battle against the evil god "Ahriman." The good god wins over the evil god when people on Earth do good things, and the evil god wins over the good god when people do evil things.
Before the Hebrew captivity, they had only Jehovah to contend with. After the captivity, they incorporated the Zoroastrian notion of an evil god into their theology. It's sort of like the way contemporary Christian theology has changed over the past 100 years to incorporate new ideas, like glossolalia (from African religions and Voodoo), liberation theology in South America, and the $uccess theology on TV that encourages people to prove their faith in God by giving the preacher's church $$$, and in return God will give them a blessing exceeding the value of $$$ paid.

But back to my point . . .

Nobody's ever seen Satan -- except for on TV and movies, anyway. Lots of people swear that they know lots and lots about Satan, like Cotton Mather (http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil//mather.htm) who wrote stuff like
The Wonders of the Invisible World http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/toc/mo...c/Bur4Nar.html

(an excerpt:
A Second Curiositie.

II. In all the Witchcraft which now Grievously Vexes us, I know not whether any thing be more Unaccountable, than the Trick which the Witches have, to render themselves and their Tools Invisible. Witchcraft seems to be the Skill of Applying the Plastic Spirit of the World139 unto some unlawful purposes, by means of a Confederacy with Evil Spirits. Yet one would wonder how the Evil Spirits themselves can do some things: especially at Invisibilizing of the Grossest Bodies. I can tell the Name of an Ancient Author, who pretends to show the way, how a man may come to walk about Invisible, and I can tell the Name of another Ancient Author, who pretends to Explode that way. But I will not speak too plainly, Lest I should unawares Poison some of my Readers,


Anyway, lots of supposedly knowledgable people supposedly knew enough about Satan and other related matters to preach about him, and to warn people about him. Their information came from heresay evidence. Turns out, it was all a bunch of BS.
I am certain you are similarly mistaken; you were duped by other well-meaning people who were similarly mistaken. It's not your fault; the deception is deeply entrenched and hard to overcome. I doubt you will ever be able to overcome it yourself, which is a pity.

Oh well.

[magic32]

Thanks alot for taking the time to reply, Magic.

Obviously, the less we understand something, the more we will question it. I definitely have a deeper understanding of my questions now.

I understand that God can't really police the world, otherwise we wouldn't be "free" to do what we want. I guess it's just hard to see someone that is doing everything right pass on, while others are doing everything wrong and not being punished. In time I guess...

Again, thanks.

No problem Title.
But as anyone who's ever pulled an all-nighter can attest, tomorrow always comes.
And bills always come due!

• Isa 13:11 And I will punish the world for [their] evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
  
  
• Jer 36:31 And I will punish him and his seed and his servants for their iniquity; and I will bring upon them, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and upon the men of Judah, all the evil that I have pronounced against them; but they hearkened not.
  
  
• Jer 44:29 And this [shall be] a sign unto you, saith the LORD, that I will punish you in this place, that ye may know that my words shall surely stand against you for evil:
  
  
• Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
• Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
• Rom 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.