Do you have any questions about the Bible?

[sonnygll]

Sadly, a personal standard is anything but!
As exhibited from toddlerhood (first choices) to twilight years, people will often skirt righteousness.

Toddlers don't have the understanding yet. Children are completely self centered at that age because they don't have an understanding of what other people are. So their way will only work in their sphere of understanding.

Now if you mean religious morality, that doesn't otherwise make sense. Then yea, I'll agree to that. All of the sexual morality in particular are arbitrary rules that come from the bible. Or whichever book is used depending on the religion.

For example, I wouldn't cheat on a wife or girlfriend, or just trick a woman to use her for sex. That hurts another person. However I have no problem having casual sex including oral and anal, or strokin it to some porn.


So in the bible it says you should stone a man to death if he lies with another man. So, could you, Magic, stone Tock to death?

You kind of avoided some of my points earlier. But that's ok, I'm not going to force the issue.

[magic32]

WASTING TIME WITH SCOFFERS IS UNWISE AND MOST WASTEFUL, I'M ONLY HERE TO HELP THOSE WHO SEEK UNDERSTANDING WITH REGARD TO BIBLICAL QUESTIONS. SO SOME PEOPLE HAVE BEEN OMITTED FROM MY RADAR.

NOW TO ADDRESS WHAT YOU POSED:

Toddlers don't have the understanding yet. Children are completely self centered at that age because they don't have an understanding of what other people are. So their way will only work in their sphere of understanding.
TRUE, BUT WHY? YOU SEEM TO ACCEPT THIS AS NECESSITY, AND ALSO TO MINIMIZE IT AS MERELY SELF-CENTERED WHEN IT ACTUALLY GOES, MUCH DEEPER.
WHY IS MAN EVEN FROM THE BEGINNING SELF-CENTERED? DISOBEDIENT? LAW BREAKING?
THE BIBLE SAYS IT’S THE SIN NATURE, UNDERWHICH WE ARE BORN.

Now if you mean religious morality, that doesn't otherwise make sense. Then yea, I'll agree to that. All of the sexual morality in particular are arbitrary rules that come from the bible. Or whichever book is used depending on the religion.
I THINK YOU MEAN SEXUAL IMMORALITY, BUT IT CAN'T BE ARBITRARY IF GOD EXISTS AND CREATED ALL THINGS, THEN IT BECOMES COMMANDMENT. THIS IS WHY MANY DON'T FOLLOW BIBLICAL LAWS...THEY DON'T WANT TO BE COMMANDED, AND YOU KNOW WHAT, THAT'S THEIR PERROGATIVE.

For example, I wouldn't cheat on a wife or girlfriend, or just trick a woman to use her for sex. That hurts another person. However I have no problem having casual sex including oral and anal, or strokin it to some porn.
RIGHT & WRONG ARE NOT MERELY ABOUT HURTING ANOTHER PERSON...MORALITY AND CHRISTIANITY ARE NOT SYNONYMS:

MORALITY SAYS DO WHAT IS RIGHT, BUT HAS NO STANDARD FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS, WHICH LEAVES MAN TO HIS OWN DEVICES.
CONVERSELY, CHRISTIANITY SAYS DO WHAT IS RIGHT, BASED ON THE BIBLE'S/CHRIST'S STANDARD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

So in the bible it says you should stone a man to death if he lies with another man. So, could you, Magic, stone Tock to death?
THAT'S IMPROPER DISCERNMENT. GOD HANDED DOWN DIFFERENT PARTS OF HIS LAW THROUGHOUT TIME UNTIL CHRIST'S FULFILLMENT. JUST AS YOU'D REPRIMAND A CHILD FOR ATTEMPTING TO DRIVE, THEN BUY THEM A CAR ON THE 16TH B-DAY.
JESUS SPECIFICALLY ADDRESSED YOUR ISSUE AGREEING WITH THE LAW, THEY DESERVE TO BE STONED, BUT EXTENDING MERCY.

• Jhn 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.

JUSTICE - U GET WHAT YOU DESERVE
GRACE - U GET WHAT YOU DON'T DESERVE
MERCY - U DON'T GET WHAT YOU DESERVE

You kind of avoided some of my points earlier. But that's ok, I'm not going to force the issue.
PLEASE REITERATE THEM, BUT NOTE THAT I'M NOT HERE TO ARGUE OR DEAL WITH THOSE WHO DON'T CARE ABOUT THE WORD.

[Tock]

WASTING TIME WITH SCOFFERS IS UNWISE AND MOST WASTEFUL

Especially if you're not up to responding to critical analysis of the Bible.


1) The first 5 books of the Bible are anonymous; nobody knows who wrote them. (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy)

2) Everybody likes the 10 Commandments, thinks they ought to be displayed in schools, courtrooms, etc. But, nobody knows that they say:

Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
And in Exodus 22:20, it calls for the death penalty for anyone who breaks this rule. 20: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
And if you say something that someone considers to be blasphemy, then you're gonna be put to DEATH: Leviticus 24:16 -- And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the LORD, shall be put to death.



Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth
And just look at all those engravings on those paper dollars in your wallets. Each and every one violates this Commandment.

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
How many times a day does the average American do this?
Who really cares?

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work

Exodus 35:02 requires DEATH for anyone who transgresses this Commandment: Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.
Does anyone take this seriously? Not really. So, if you're not going to take this part of the Bible seriously, why take any of it seriously?

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Cool, no problem here, so long as your father and mother didn't horribly abuse you. No sense in honoring sexually abusive parents. But if you don't, brace yourself for the consequenses given in Leviticus 20:9 -- For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Again, if you support the Ten Commandments because they're in the Bible, then you support DEATH for kids who curse their abusive parents, because that's in the Bible, too. Unless, of course, you champion "Cafeteria Theology," where you "pick and choose" what parts of the Bible you decide to follow.

Thou shalt not kill.
No problem here.

Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Depends on what you call adultery, I guess.
The Bible allows for polygamy, within limits. Leviticus 20:14, for example, says you can have a harem, but you can't have both a mother and her daughter: And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
But it clearly calls for DEATH to anyone who commits adultery: (Leviticus 20:10) And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.


Thou shalt not steal.
Again, no problem here. Don't take my stuff, and we won't chop off your hand.

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Ya, lying against your neighbor isn't cool.
Only problem is, this doesn't cover folks who live across town, or in a foreign country. IMHO, it doesn't go quite far enough.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.
Wanting what your neighbor has is the major reason why we work long hours, and is the major incentive for Americans to contribute to our national economy. Stop Americans from coveting, and the economy will collapse, and we'll go back to an agrarian subsistance economy. Lots of people think this is a good idea, by the way, but how about you?



Ya, the Ten Commandments come from the Book of Exodus. Is that a sacred text that everyone should obey? Yes? Then it might interest you to know some other "sacred" texts also found in that book:
Exodus 22:18 -- Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
Exodus 21:16 -- And he that stealeth a man, and selleth him, or if he be found in his hand, he shall surely be put to death.

But, if you look long enough in the Bible (as in most any book, I suppose), you'll find useful things, like Leviticus 15:19, where menstruating women are required to go away for one week -- And if a woman have an issue, and her issue in her flesh be blood, she shall be put apart seven days: and whosoever toucheth her shall be unclean until the even. and Ephesians 5:22-24 requires wives to be submissive to their husbands:
22: Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23: For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24: Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Why? It's because women are the weaker sex, according to I Peter 3:7--
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.
and as such, women can not have any authority over men, as the Bible says in I Timothy 2:12 -- But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
:


Sure, the Bible says lots of things. But do they make sense? Not really. Conservative theologians will tell you that the Bible is the Word of God because of what it says in II Timothy 3:16 -- "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" But, is that particular verse "Inspired Scripture" just because the writer says that it is? If that's the way you differentiate between "True Scripture" and general BS, then keep watch for the "Gospel of Tock." It'll be a doozy.

Anyway, beleive what you want. But you may as well know that not everything that you might beleive in, is true.

[magic32]

Especially if you're not up to responding to critical analysis of the Bible.

Only if it is because of seeking, not if it's merely throwing stones.

And as for your review of the Ten Commandments, they were actually God's way of showing man that he COULDN’T keep His law...be righteous/perfect before Him. Anyone whose even vaguely familiar with the New Testament would be aware of this...it's the reason for Christ's sacrifice.

The same goes for all the laws you listed, they were essentially a "Good Faith" measure by which man could show that he was trying.

We are saved by the blood, not by trying to keep the law!

Thought you would have known something so rudimentary.

[Tock]

We are saved by the blood, not by trying to keep the law!

Why, then, do so many anti-gay Christians quote the anti-gay laws from the Old Testament?

Thought you would have known something so rudimentary.

I am familiar with that little Theological Twist. It usually comes up whenever all those rediculous Old Testament Laws come up, and a defensive Pharasee wants to rationalize why they don't matter anymore. Ya, the anti-gay rules matter, but not the Commandments about killing Sabbath-breakers and adulterers; is that what you're saying?


But tell me this --> what do you think of the New Testament laws, like the ones I mentioned in I Cor. 11 (Men may not have long hair, Women may not have short hair, Rules about wearing hats while praying) or I Tim. (Women can't braid their hair or wear jewelry)? Seems to me the Cranky Old Pharasee who wrote that part of the Bible was in the same cranky mood when he wrote those anti-gay verses in the first chapter of Romans.

Seems to me that if you're gonna say that Faith in Jesus is enough for salvation, even for a human riddled with imperfection, then it really doesn't matter what those imperfections are, whether they be homosexuality, or if they be any other sin.

Christians who say that some sins are worse than others forget that any sin is enough to keep 'em out of Heaven. They can be 99.9999% pure, but that last .0001% of imperfection is enough to condemn them to Hellfire & Brimstone, languishing in unspeakable torment for unfathomable thousands of billions of centuries.
It seems to me that an application of Christian Fundamentalist theology, unbiased by homophobic BS, would declare that John 3:16 (For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotton son that WHOSOEVER beleives in Him should not perish but have everlasting life) covers not only Christians who smoke, tell the occasional "little white lie," or drive 50 in a 45 mph zone, but also covers Christians who are gay with spouses. It seems that way to me, but I'm sure it won't seem that way to other Christians. I'm sure that other Christians will not be able to give up their self-righteous self-assurance that their own minor sins are not as vile to God as someone else's homosexuality, and therefore God must not consider gay people capable of being as forgiven as they themselves are.

Ah, yes . . . those are the people Jesus had in mind when He said, "how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?" (Matthew 7:4)

Tsk tsk tsk . . . Don't you know your own Theology?

Ephesians chapter 2:
"8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.


IMHO, it seems to me that only a Christian with the sensibility of a Pharasee would have the temerity to declare who God has forgiven and who He hasn't. Especially when the founder of your religion has made the qualifications for salvation so easy.

Keep in mind -- John 3:16 says,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
not,
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that heterosexuals who believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."