As Democrats See Security Gains in Iraq, Tone Shifts

[thegodfather]

The difference is in the group that seems to have control over Dem. politicians these days. Why should there be an immediate troop withdrawl? And I do not want to hear any "its an illegal war" bullshit. That's pure propaganda and has no basis in truth.

Because the basis for the war was founded on lies. Bush has presented no evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which if memory serves correct, was the entire premise for our invasion of the country? Then, after no weapons were found, we declared that any country who makes a safe-haven for terrorists is one which we will invade. One perpetual lie and bullshit reason after another. The insurgents as we're lead to believe by the US media's propaganda(all media is propagaganda regardless of what form of government it reports under, this is taught in entry level history classes) are really terrorists who would be executing terrorist attacks within the United States border if they had the chance. We created the insurgents, they are people of the regime that was toppled who simply do not want us there. We also created the opportunity for neighboring countries who have wanted control of Iraq, but were held at bay by Saddam Hussein, to start funding guerilla warfare operations against the US.

Had a foreign country invaded us, I'm sure that many of us on this forum would be taking up arms against the occupying nation. We would most likely do so with rudamentary weapons and improvised devices (does IED ring a bell?). And, I'm also sure that the occupying force would be spouting out propaganda about us being "terrorists." There have been plenty of polls and interviews which show that a lot more of the Iraqi people DO NOT want us or our "DEMOCRACY" as we think. Many of them have said they want a government ruled by Islamic law, it is their country and I respect their right to rule their country with thousand year old archaeic idealogies.

We have created the FALLOUT that we will be having to face in the coming decades. Our very presence is fostering the hatred against our country, 500,000 dead Iraqi civilians. How many of them had sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, and how many of them now hate the United States and are willing to join terrorist organizations? Pre-Iraqi invasion, there were probably only a handful of people willing to join such organizations. We are still thinking conventionally, and we will never understand their culture. They do not think rationally, they are willing to die for a set of ideals that we will also never understand. I am willing to die for the set of ideals put forth in the Constitution of the United States, in the same way they are willing to die for the things said in the Koran.

Why we should withdraw troops immediately from Iraq?

*We should be handling our problems with the 350million United States citizens before sticking our noses elsewhere.

*We are plunging the country deeper into debt daily. Who is going to pay, and when?

*There is no winner in the Iraqi war. Name one country which has been able to succesfully occupy the lands of the other country for any prolonged period of time? (with the exception of the Roman empire).

*The basis for the war was propagated by lies. No WMDs, No evidence that Iraq was harboring terrorist groups. (There is more evidence of Iran and Saudi Arabia(whoa, our allie?) doing so than Iraq).

*It is ridiculous to think that any of these countries have a chance of waging a war on our homeland. The last war fought on our homeland was between ourselves. The Japanese tried it, and we f**ked them so hard their grandchildren felt it.

*The evidence for 9/11 was present, the lack of communication between agencies was the reason it was not prevented, the government even admitted that. The resources being used for the war could be much better spent on securing our borders, and I believe the country would be much more 'secure' if this was done.

*We are fostering future generations of terrorists against the United States.

*Country was founded on non-interventionist policy. Not the US job to police the world. The polls of the American people prove this. What good are these elected officials if they dont represent what the American people want?

[Logan13]

Because the basis for the war was founded on lies. Bush has presented no evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, which if memory serves correct, was the entire premise for our invasion of the country? Then, after no weapons were found, we declared that any country who makes a safe-haven for terrorists is one which we will invade. One perpetual lie and bullshit reason after another.
[/B]

Do you have proof that it was founded on lies, or just your assumptions? Regardless, the President has the authority to send troops into battle for long periods of time without getting a Declaration of War. You may not like this, but it is the law.........

[thegodfather]

Do you have proof that it was founded on lies, or just your assumptions? Regardless, the President has the authority to send troops into battle for long periods of time without getting a Declaration of War. You may not like this, but it is the law.........

The President is an elected official by the people. The people elected him because they hoped that he would do things in their interest, and as they wanted him to do. When over 60% or more of the Nation objects to his actions, dont you think that they should have some recourse?

To be quite honest with you Logan. I dont give two flying ****s about anyone in the Middle East, not the people, nothing. If Bush announced 4 years ago that we were invading them for oil(thats bullshit but an example), or because we wanted to setup a new state, or to get closer to Iran for an eventual invasion, or because he just felt like killin some motherfu*kers, I probably wouldnt give a shit. But, dont start the war on the premise of some unsubstantiated bullshit which, if he does have proof of WMDs, he's kept it under wraps pretty well.

I would just like him to be honest, I'm more than willing to support a war for natural resources, if we're running out of them, and they have them, and we have the bigger dick, oh well it looks like the Middle East is beat. I dont give a shit, but I just think the invasion of Iraq was a waste. I really think in the long run will cause more problems than not, and we're gonna be paying the debt for that war for a long time.

I just really like the non-interventionist model a lot more than running around the world trying to play cop. Shit happens, injustices are everywhere, even here at home. If the people in the Middle East want freedom, let them fight for it like we did 200 years ago. You cant convince completely uncivilized people with no regard for human life(especially women) to wake up overnight and decide to join the modern world. **** them, if they want to live like a bunch of animals let them, when they start to realise that they're getting the short end of the stick, then I'm sure they'll have a civil war and fight for the same rights we fought for.

I absolutely agree with bombing the living shit out of any country who supports or harbors an enemy of the United States. Afghanistan was a great move, we should have made the entire country a god damn parking lot. Iraq was really pointless, it destabilized the region terribly.

Logan, dont get the idea im some tree hugging hippey that goes around writing peace signs on everything. I just prefer to see $200billion dollars spent on better things, like securing the borders, deporting illegal aliens, etc, etc. . .I dont want to be in the Middle East because I think its pointless, and I strongly believe if we just leave them alone we'll kind of take the fuel out of their fire.

[Logan13]

The President is an elected official by the people. The people elected him because they hoped that he would do things in their interest, and as they wanted him to do. When over 60% or more of the Nation objects to his actions, dont you think that they should have some recourse?

To be quite honest with you Logan. I dont give two flying ****s about anyone in the Middle East, not the people, nothing. If Bush announced 4 years ago that we were invading them for oil(thats bullshit but an example), or because we wanted to setup a new state, or to get closer to Iran for an eventual invasion, or because he just felt like killin some motherfu*kers, I probably wouldnt give a shit. But, dont start the war on the premise of some unsubstantiated bullshit which, if he does have proof of WMDs, he's kept it under wraps pretty well.

I would just like him to be honest, I'm more than willing to support a war for natural resources, if we're running out of them, and they have them, and we have the bigger dick, oh well it looks like the Middle East is beat. I dont give a shit, but I just think the invasion of Iraq was a waste. I really think in the long run will cause more problems than not, and we're gonna be paying the debt for that war for a long time.

I just really like the non-interventionist model a lot more than running around the world trying to play cop. Shit happens, injustices are everywhere, even here at home. If the people in the Middle East want freedom, let them fight for it like we did 200 years ago. You cant convince completely uncivilized people with no regard for human life(especially women) to wake up overnight and decide to join the modern world. **** them, if they want to live like a bunch of animals let them, when they start to realise that they're getting the short end of the stick, then I'm sure they'll have a civil war and fight for the same rights we fought for.

I absolutely agree with bombing the living shit out of any country who supports or harbors an enemy of the United States. Afghanistan was a great move, we should have made the entire country a god damn parking lot. Iraq was really pointless, it destabilized the region terribly.

Logan, dont get the idea im some tree hugging hippey that goes around writing peace signs on everything. I just prefer to see $200billion dollars spent on better things, like securing the borders, deporting illegal aliens, etc, etc. . .I dont want to be in the Middle East because I think its pointless, and I strongly believe if we just leave them alone we'll kind of take the fuel out of their fire.

this I can agree with.

[Johny-too-small]

Damn, nice post.

The President is an elected official by the people. The people elected him because they hoped that he would do things in their interest, and as they wanted him to do. When over 60% or more of the Nation objects to his actions, dont you think that they should have some recourse?

To be quite honest with you Logan. I dont give two flying ****s about anyone in the Middle East, not the people, nothing. If Bush announced 4 years ago that we were invading them for oil(thats bullshit but an example), or because we wanted to setup a new state, or to get closer to Iran for an eventual invasion, or because he just felt like killin some motherfu*kers, I probably wouldnt give a shit. But, dont start the war on the premise of some unsubstantiated bullshit which, if he does have proof of WMDs, he's kept it under wraps pretty well.

I would just like him to be honest, I'm more than willing to support a war for natural resources, if we're running out of them, and they have them, and we have the bigger dick, oh well it looks like the Middle East is beat. I dont give a shit, but I just think the invasion of Iraq was a waste. I really think in the long run will cause more problems than not, and we're gonna be paying the debt for that war for a long time.

I just really like the non-interventionist model a lot more than running around the world trying to play cop. Shit happens, injustices are everywhere, even here at home. If the people in the Middle East want freedom, let them fight for it like we did 200 years ago. You cant convince completely uncivilized people with no regard for human life(especially women) to wake up overnight and decide to join the modern world. **** them, if they want to live like a bunch of animals let them, when they start to realise that they're getting the short end of the stick, then I'm sure they'll have a civil war and fight for the same rights we fought for.

I absolutely agree with bombing the living shit out of any country who supports or harbors an enemy of the United States. Afghanistan was a great move, we should have made the entire country a god damn parking lot. Iraq was really pointless, it destabilized the region terribly.

Logan, dont get the idea im some tree hugging hippey that goes around writing peace signs on everything. I just prefer to see $200billion dollars spent on better things, like securing the borders, deporting illegal aliens, etc, etc. . .I dont want to be in the Middle East because I think its pointless, and I strongly believe if we just leave them alone we'll kind of take the fuel out of their fire.