Religion And Your Opinion ?

[TexSavant]

Dying for a belief does not make it valid. Nor is it the slightest bit of proof therof, or else Mohammed Atta and his 18 fellow hijackers proved Islam correct by slamming into buildings at 500 mph.

But then Jim Jones and David Koresh are right too, and what about the atheist Rosenbergs...Timothy McVeigh.and Buddhist monks who light themselves on fire....a friend of mine who ate mushrooms... and peyote and commited suicide two days later because the world wasn't "REAL"...lots of people die for their beliefs and that is not evidence of their correctness...

As for God being the simplest explanation, it actually is tied with the "scientific" explanations (ie the Big Bang, M-theory [very strange stuff about membranes touching each other and creating new universes, and theres an infinite number])

I AGREE with you that the KEY difference between humans and OTHER ANIMALS is our ability to reason. REASON is the best evidence that we are made in the image of God. Reason is the only way we can understand his creation. I AGREE that the universal desire amongst sentient beings can be taken - in some ethereal way- as evidence of a Creator. Its when you start arguing that God is ALL-POWERFUL and ALL-LOVING and ALL-KNOWING that you run into problems, because that requires a perfect world (see the Riddle of Epicurus)

[IronReload04]

Dying for a belief does not make it valid. Nor is it the slightest bit of proof therof, or else Mohammed Atta and his 18 fellow hijackers proved Islam correct by slamming into buildings at 500 mph.

But then Jim Jones and David Koresh are right too, and what about the atheist Rosenbergs...Timothy McVeigh.and Buddhist monks who light themselves on fire....a friend of mine who ate mushrooms... and peyote and commited suicide two days later because the world wasn't "REAL"...lots of people die for their beliefs and that is not evidence of their correctness...

As for God being the simplest explanation, it actually is tied with the "scientific" explanations (ie the Big Bang, M-theory [very strange stuff about membranes touching each other and creating new universes, and theres an infinite number])

I AGREE with you that the KEY difference between humans and OTHER ANIMALS is our ability to reason. REASON is the best evidence that we are made in the image of God. Reason is the only way we can understand his creation. I AGREE that the universal desire amongst sentient beings can be taken - in some ethereal way- as evidence of a Creator. Its when you start arguing that God is ALL-POWERFUL and ALL-LOVING and ALL-KNOWING that you run into problems, because that requires a perfect world (see the Riddle of Epicurus)

ya, if my second post got their in time, you would have seen that I said, "if saints were insane, it wouldnt be the first time in history wacko's died for some bogus belief ie purple koolaide" and I still hold that I think the saints may have been rational and sane


as far as perfect world, and all powerful etc..........I used to see problems with that also....I work with a muslum guy.......and we talk about religion from time to time, and I actually really really like some of his opinions about a perfect world vs human suffering and imperfection....


one of his ideas is that, suffering is all part of the plan.....God has more emotions than we have........suffering and world imperfection is not something we can understand as a human, as to why it is present.....but it does serve a purpose.......if your own father discaplined you or showed you how to do something, you would not question it, you are not smart enough to question it......



I like that idea, but as I was typing that, this hit me...........if certain people are chosen to suffer in this world, to perhaps define good and bad, than I guess not all men are created equal are they?

so over the next day or 2, I will be thinking about his idea, and mine that I got while typing this








and as far as creation, you are still stuck with where did that orginal matter come from? why i still think God is the very simplest explanation

[TexSavant]

ya, if my second post got their in time, you would have seen that I said, "if saints were insane, it wouldnt be the first time in history wacko's died for some bogus belief ie purple koolaide" and I still hold that I think the saints may have been rational and sane


as far as perfect world, and all powerful etc..........I used to see problems with that also....I work with a muslum guy.......and we talk about religion from time to time, and I actually really really like some of his opinions about a perfect world vs human suffering and imperfection....


one of his ideas is that, suffering is all part of the plan.....God has more emotions than we have........suffering and world imperfection is not something we can understand as a human, as to why it is present.....but it does serve a purpose.......if your own father discaplined you or showed you how to do something, you would not question it, you are not smart enough to question it......

Haha, theres the difference between me and your friend. I always questioned my father, I defied him and I occasionally pissed him off. I ALWAYS asked why until he had to just say BECAUSE. I ALWAYS looked for a better way until i either found one, or decided it was no longer worth searching for it.

This is another "Its a mystery" rationalization. Who says God has emotions? Who can prove he deosn't. In Sec. Rumsfeld's words "these questions are not knowable!" All higher animals have emotions. What you've never seen elephants mourn their dead? pay respect to Elephant skulls they pass by? Seen two foxes in love? Emotions are subroutines that are designed to override rational thought in order to increase your chances of passing on your genes (not necessarily survival). In the right situations, thats exactly what they do. Fear, love, even hatred and prejudice all have their place in aiding this task. Read "the selfish gene" by Richard Dawkins and you'll understand this very well. All of the Logical problems associated with religious dogma go away when you accept the truth as revealed by mans observations. Except the one that you quite astutely point out, which is the following :

And as far as creation, you are still stuck with where did that orginal matter come from? why i still think God is the very simplest explanation

The answer to that question is the same (in other words, EQUAL TO) the question, WHERE DID GOD COME FROM..?? He always was OR It always was.
They are the SAME FUKCING ANSWER.

I like that idea, but as I was typing that, this hit me...........if certain people are chosen to suffer in this world, to perhaps define good and bad, than I guess not all men are created equal are they?

Clearly they are not. God could be an emotionless being. We just dont know.