If You Dont Believe In God...

[NotSmall]

Who is this Evil Boogieman that is patiently awaiting its opportunity to Torment and Torture the vast majority of humans who have ever existed on the face of this planet with unspeakable torment? And why would anyone want to worship such a vile, malignant, pestilant and sadistic blight on the universe?

This is one of my favourite posts from this thread right here!

Another thing that has always bothered me is that if God is this incredible, omnipotent, omnipresent, all knowing being who created the universe and is by all accounts completely beyond human comprehension then how come he needs us all to congregate every sunday to sing songs about how fantastic he is? - God, if you're reading this - Get over yourself buddy! What are you, some kind of egomaniac?

I do actually believe in some sort of higher power but it is a far cry from the God of organised religion.

[Beefkake31]

Haven't posted here for a little while but I couldn't resist this thread. I am so happy and glad to see logical and smart people that feel the same way as I do. And a steroid forum of all places, that has a majority of people (from this thread anyways) that don't believe in religion and don't know if god exists or not. Good to hear guys, and some of the points that were made, I always think of those points all the time, so it's good to see others on the same level.

Btw, another random and simple point worth thinking about...

If there really was a god, why wouldn't he/she/it show up and make us all believe and at the same time make the world less chaotic. And I hope no one gives me that "because he is testing you" type of crap, do the people that say that realize how insanely dumb that sounds.

And I'm not bashing the believers , if they believe fine, as long as they don't push it on to you. If anything I wish I was like them, would make me more at ease with the world but I can't believe in something that's on the same level as Santa.

[thegodfather]

?? I read the whole thread genius. BTW LOL, you outta make it to church at least once. How can you comment like this before at least trying to kneel before God, drink his blood, eat his body, sing his songs, and sing praise to Him. Geez! You should dig in a bit before you offer your worldly advice. I speak with sarcasm, because I don't understand your above post. I read everything. I think you should stop arguing. If you don't I probably will so you'll be satisfied, as Lord knows I haven't even looked at one of my previous threads where's someone really pissed me off.

How exactly is he a trouble maker for stating his opinions and beliefs? Why should someone who obviously does not share the same beliefs as yourself "kneel before god" and "sing praise to him." People use to sing praise and kneel before Hitler and Stalin, but I didn't need to kneel and praise with them to understand that I didn't like what they stood for and the policies they advocated, did I?

I agree that maybe one should attend Church before judging. But honestly, if you attend one you are able to form an opinion on all of organized religion. You dont need to attend every single religious sect on Earth to then come to the conclusion that you are Agnostic, or Atheist, etc...

I personally believe that there was a "something" that created everything. Our entire world has too much inherent design for it to have occured randomly. However, that is where my speculation stops. I do not speculate on what God is, if God is a he, a she, an it, or a force. And I never go so far as to speculate on what this God's name is, Jehovah, Allah, etc... The entire philosophy behind organized religion is designed so that you can never disprove it, because whenever there is a contraindiction of some sort you <insert blind faith here>. Not to mention that in most of organized Christian and Catholic religions, God teaches so much compassion, yet when you go against God, you are to burn in hell. That doesn't sound too compassionate to me. Additionally, God gave everyone the ability to have "free choice," yet he choses to penalize a human for exercising that free choice. I really did not want to take this argument this far to begin with, so I'm going to stop right here. But consider, how much death, torture, and misery that religion has caused in human history, compared to any other single cause.

[DSM4Life]

If god is all mightly how come his religion needs so much of my money

[Psychotron]

I am going to comment on a few things.

1.) I have grown to reject the views of Judeo-Christian's God, mainly on the ground that on a comparative study it is no different then the other religions of history. The bible is highly influenced by men. There is a lot more to it then that, but that is the jist of it.

2.) I have moved down the spectrum from being a believer, to being a believer leaning towards agnostic, and now im agnostic leaning towards atheism. I think Dawkin gave a pretty good break down of all this in his book, and he also set out how there is a good amount of probability against god.

3.) On the doctrine of Hell. I found during my early catching with Christianity that I was disgusted with such a notion. I found no concept of it with Jews I spoke to or even in the Old Testament. As far as I could gather the punishment of sin is death, not eternal torment, god seemed to make it clear that the suffering endured would be on earth due to sin, not in some Hell. Outside that, I don't even think it is biblicaly supported. Jesus is said to came to save the entire world, not just some randoms. 1 Tim. 4:10 always reminds me of an interesting line to support this. My final thing about the bible is that if you really want to get to early christianity ignore the gospels, it is evident from the epistles of paul and early church apologists that none of them had any idea Jesus existed on the physical realm. People arent even sure if the gospels were written by Matthew, Mark, Lue, John, they used to always be titled "Gospel according to ...". Anyways, if anyone is looking for a good book which takes a nuetral stance towards the debate of Christianity, and gives the general world views of Christians I reccomend Todd Allen Gates: Dialogue with a Christian Proselytizer

[Carlos_E]

If god is all mightly how come his religion needs so much of my money

Because the Church has to buy their rich preachers mansions and luxury cars. You didn't know?

[BOOST]

Darwin himself stated for everything that is created there is a creator

[DSM4Life]

Because the Church has to buy their rich preachers mansions and luxury cars. You didn't know?

Ohhhh, i thought it was to help settle all them sexual abuse cases.

[notus]

Darwin himself stated for everything that is created there is a creator

Does that make it true because darwin said it?

[duramaxedge]

weird

[Timm1704]

wow! wow! what an amazing thread! i have found myself having several religion-based debates over the holidays, I heard many viewpoints and sound theories from others, but this takes the prize.

I am an agnostic (which I learned from logans post on the topic. Cheers) and find the concept of organised religion both comical and embarrassing. I dislike attending funerals, baptisms and weddings at churches for the sole reason that there is some dude dressed up like a wedding cake TELLING me that god said this, jesus did that, and addressing it as FACT. I cant help feel insulted, amused, and like Im too smart to be in the building.

I appreciate how people may need religion in their lives, as a means to cope with loss, and to give them a sense of worth and direction, and although I stated above that I feel "too smart to be in the building" whilst at church, that is not arrogance, it is just the immediate feeling I get which I cannot control. I have friends and family that are religious, and I respect them and their beliefs, so long as they do not preach about what god is and what he does, as it would be like me turning to them and trying to convince them that what Zippy out of Rainbow said is remotely important.

I have learned alot from this thread, and I only wish that some form of unbiased media outlet could see this kind of intelligent and well though-out discussion on a steroid board

[goodcents]

*Goodcents chokes chicken and moves to other threads*

[DSM4Life]

*Goodcents chokes chicken and moves to other threads*

[powerliftmike]

who here believes in the greek or roman gods? Like Testronous, the god of AAS

[Ncogneato]

If God is so powerfull,...can he make a rock that he himself can not lift???

[DSM4Life]

who here believes in the greek or roman gods? Like Testronous, the god of AAS

[DSM4Life]

I just went to make toast and this is what came out of the toaster !!!!

[Fat Guy]

^^^Wasn't that on eBay? Jesus Toast...

[Tock]

I can't say that I beleive in anything, but Determinism makes a lot of sense to me.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04756c.htm

sound like humanism to me.

Yah, well, it's not.

[Tock]

If God is so powerfull,...can he make a rock that he himself can not lift???

Or grow one so painful that he cannot pass?

[stitch1967]

First off let me say that I would not even attempt to excuse or justify what religion has done to God's relationship to the human race. Most have made it legalistic, cloudy, and hard to obtain a "real" relationship with God. But like everything else man (as a race not as a gender) touches. They twist it to try to bring gain to themselves (riches, power, control, etc.) Which is one reason I do believe in God, if He wasn't in control the only thing humans ever seem to create on their on when we're in charge of something, chaos, would reign surpreme.

For me it doesn't take much faith to believe in God...it would take much more faith for me not too.

To me it is just clear that He exists and the evidence can be seen in the stars, mountains, the human body, history, etc...

I don't know that I would be a good person to persuade someone who does not believe, see God as clearly as I do...

But for me it's a clear as the nose on my face....

There's my take on it...

[Logan13]

Yah, well, it's not.

you are correct. Determinism = humanism + victimism.........

[BG]

I'd rather bath in a lake of fire then listen to you preach.

Ohhhh, i thought it was to help settle all them sexual abuse cases.

Damn, I didnt think I'de ever agree with you on something, but this time I do lol.

And you know all of this because ? This all comes down to one thing...... brainwashing.

Exactly.

[dece870717]

If God is so powerfull,...can he make a rock that he himself can not lift???

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

[Tock]

you are correct. Determinism = humanism + victimism.........

Not quite, but you win the runner's-up award for dogged persistance: a trip to the Antipodes!

[Logan13]

Not quite, but you win the runner's-up award for dogged persistance: a trip to the Antipodes!

look it up....

BTW, I do not get 2nd place...........

[goodcents]

One word..................












Boring

[Ncogneato]

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

Thanks for clearing that up.



P.S. That was a joke.

[goodcents]

[goodcents]

[goodcents]

[BOOST]

Does that make it true because darwin said it?

Well it is kinda hypocritical for some to believe in his theory of evolution but not his theory about a creator. I think in out life, seeing DNA understood shows you how complex whoever made us really is, I find NOT believing in God a further fetch. The earth sits perfect, 1 degree to the left and we would burn, 1 degree to the right and we would freeze, I do not understand it but driving past a farm I see a cow and then at supper it is a steak that taste great and milk to drink, I do not understand it, but it just seems everything is perfect for us to eat, breath and live here, somebody had us in mind

[Flagg]

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

You are wrong. God is supposedly Omniscient (All Knowing) Omnipresent (Everywhere and everywhen) and Omnipotent (All Powerful) so basically He can do anything. Which means he could make 2 + 2 equate to 5 if He really wanted to. It just goes to show that infinite power is a paradox because like someone said, could God make a rock he cannot lift? Surely it's within His power to do that, but then if He couldnt lift it that means He isn't all powerful so there-in lies the paradox. Also He is supposed to be infaliable, which means He is incapable of error so it was quite hillarious that He couldn't forsee His first creations, Adam and Eve, eat from the tree of knowledge.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

You are wrong. God is supposedly Omniscient (All Knowing) Omnipresent (Everywhere and everywhen) and Omnipotent (All Powerful) so basically He can do anything. Which means he could make 2 + 2 equate to 5 if He really wanted to. It just goes to show that infinite power is a paradox because like someone said, could God make a rock he cannot lift? Surely it's within His power to do that, but then if He couldnt lift it that means He isn't all powerful so there-in lies the paradox. Also He is supposed to be infaliable, which means He is incapable of error so it was quite hillarious that He couldn't forsee His first creations, Adam and Eve, eat from the tree of knowledge.

yeppers.

then they will say well, God gave Eve the choice..blah blah blah
what kind of a god is gonna sit around and watch people do bad things?
Its like I see someone getting raped, I will stop it...god wont...he will just sit back and watch it happen...thats ****ed up
then they say well mans choice. 1, god really cant stop mans choice therefore man is actually more powerful than god or 2, god really doesnt give a shit about u.

[bpm1]

No he can not. God is infinite and a rock that is infinitely huge is no longer a rock so the statement isn't logical. People also have to remember just because God is all powerful, all knowing, and everywhere doesn't mean he can do anything. He can't lie, steal, sin, etc. Another exmaple is having infinite power can't make 2+2=5. Go ahead set a bazzilion nuclear bombs off which would be a lot of energy by the way and you still can't make 2+2=5. So you should not mix up having infinite power with being able to do anything. He can do a lot but he can't do anything.

true dat, God himself if subject to truth and right and the things that are and always will be.he is God because he never waivers from those truths or breaks those laws he has commanded us to obey, he is subject to them as well.
what we believe is a choice and i choose to believe, thats really all there is to it.

[Red Ketchup]

This thread started well and was an interesting read... but sadly it's become yet another...



Red

[Psychotron]

The earth sits perfect, 1 degree to the left and we would burn, 1 degree to the right and we would freeze

Anthropic principle, there would bound to be somewhere some planet capable of sustaining life. I cant explain it very well, Richard Dawkins made a pretty clear explanation of it though.

I feel for the camp that says it is harder to comprehend a complex entity existing before anything else, and then something simple became from something complex without anything coming before the complex. That is, God(the complex) began our universe in a simple event(big bang), and it is hard to fathom how God(complex) existed first before all.

[Flagg]

Look up The Rare Earth Hypothesis. It shows how truly unique this planet is, and how others like it in the Universe, while very possibly existing, could be quite rare and far apart in the grand scheme of things.