Are any Bodybuilders Christians here

[Tock]

That's it???....the ability to love, feel emotions, speak, communicate like we are doing now, happy, sad, joy, give, recieve, peace, etc... is all just made up by chance???

Dunno if it was by chance or not. But just because your mind is accustomed to the notion of intelligent beings creating things, doesn't mean that's the only way we could have got here.

I'm hardly omniscient, and lots of people are smarter than I am. But I do know this -- the Bible is not to be taken literally, it is chuck full of tales, fables, and fiction, and its stories of creation and gods and afterlife is not the sort of thing I take seriously.

How we got here is how we got here. I probably won't be around when scientists finally piece together all the bits of info and figure out how it all happened. So, I won't worry about it, and I won't embrace fictions that make me feel better.

right and wrong???

What's Right and Wrong frequently depends on your viewpoint. To the cow about to be made into hamburger, eating meat is wrong. To the folks at a summer barbeque, it's a wonderful thing. Obeying the Commandment to "Keep the sabbath holy" is fine for slaves to orthodoxy, but not so good for businessmen. A vote for Obama would be right for America according to some folks, and terribly wrong for others. Under what circumstances is it right or wrong for a beggar to steal a loaf of bread to feed his starving 3 year old daughter?

The truth is you post in everyone of these threads because you are looking too....just like we all are..

I've been looking for quite a while. I've blundered up a few dead ends, and am happy to share the benefit of my experience. But anymore, I'm of the opinion that all these religions are just someone else's fictions, other folk's attempts to make sense out of stuff that doesn't make sense. And their explanations don't make sense to me. Nothing does. So, I've made peace with the idea that I'm better off embracing a big question mark than a bloody cross with a bunch of nonsensical rules. You, however, haven't made the same life journey I have, so your conclusions will be different, and you're welcome to think whatever you would like to think.

Now just open your heart and look....

Nope. I've been down that "just open your heart and etc" bit before. What that actually means is, "just open yourself uncritically to this set of ideas . . ." and to do that is to embrace them as conclusions before actually putting them under critical examination. And that's a big mistake . . . Something I'm not gonna do again.

[rockinred]

Tock,

I might be different.. but when I said open your heart... I didn't mean start reading anything or conforming to any set of beliefs or religious system....

I wasn't fancy for the bible or anything like that either... I use to read a lot of psychology, philosophy, and cosmos books.... I have always been a little deep...

anyhow, my journey to becoming a believer from a nonbeliver started when I was in Haiti one night very cold, lonely, sad, and in a lot of pain.... I was by myself and would say from the inside of my inners... "if there is a God out there then why not just show me?" "I like good and if there really is a God then I will be with you, just show me"....I would also think that if there was a bad side, which i didn't think there was, in my heart I knew that I didn't want to be a part of it especially if there was a difference that i could see and choose... and I said it to myself and meant it with all my inside (heart). I said i just want to know because I don't understand things and religion was just silliness to me.. I never thought about the bible or koran or any other specific religion... I just wanted to know for sure the real truth..

so anyhow nothing happened on that night or a few others that was similar, but it was later that both the evil one showed his presence and the God did too... The study of the bible came later and it was more of a confirmation of beliefs that I never knew about but was shown to me when God showed me...

I have only shared that with a few... I know what I am saying can be written off as fanciful thoughts, but in reality I am a changed person in ways I didn't know was possible... I use to be a very violent ill tempered person amongst many other things... I am learning and struggling day in and day out.

The whole thing about opening your heart on what I said is a lot different then saying read a book such as the bible and just accepting it or anything else... that is the difference between intellectually approaching and just doing it from your heart....

Peace!

[magic32]

For you magic,,,,,,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?V=yknwxfc820c

THIS REPLY MAY CATCH YOU OFF GUARD GOOSE, BUT THERE IS INDEED BIBLICAL VALIDITY FOR EVERYTHING IN THE ABOVE LINK, AND BECAUSE OF THAT (ALTHOUGH MY WORDS WOULD BE FAR LESS NEGATIVE), I AGREE WITH HIM!

THAT SAID, HE'S SPEAKING OF IS WHAT WE TRADITIONALLY CALL "EXECUTIVE PRIVILEGE" SO WHETHER IN A HOME, MOVIE, CORPORATION, OR UNIVERSE THE PARENTS, SCREENWRITER, C.O., OR SUPREME BEING MAKES THE RULES. CONSEQUENTLY, THE OMNIPOTENT GOD OF THE BIBLE BEING ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WELL WITHIN HIS RIGHTS TO MAKE FORNICATION, LYING, STEALING, HOMOSEXUALITY, ETC., SINS. HOWEVER, IT SHOULD BE CLEAR THAT BECAUSE ONE DISAGREES OR DOES NOT UNDERSTAND A THING, PERSON OR DECISION DOESN'T MAKE IT WRONG...AN EXPANSION OF WHICH (AS ANY MILITARY OFFICER WILL TELL YOU) IS:

"COMPREHENSION IS NOT A PREREQUISITE OF OBEDIENCE."

ESPECIALLY WHEN THAT BOSS HAS THE AUTHORITY TO RULE WITH IMPUNITY, AND OR EXACT PUNISHMENT.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?V=6mmskxxetcg

I FOUND THE SECOND LINK FAR MORE INTERESTING, AND THIS QUESTION IS ONE THAT EVERY BELIEVER OF ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY RELIGION SHOULD ASK HIMSELF. NOW CONJECTURALLY SPEAKING, YOU MAY BE ASKING ME THE POSITED QUESTION AND IF SO, I COULD EASILY METAPHYSICALLY ANSWER BY SAYING THAT MY INNER BEING/CONSCIENCE/SUPER EGO/SPIRIT AGREES WITH THIS BUT THAT WOULD BE FAR TOO SUBJECTIVE FOR VIGOROUS DEBATE. INSTEAD, EVEN THOUGH I WASN’T THERE, I DO IN FACT BELIEVE THE BIBLE AND THE EXTRA-BIBLICAL REPORTS OF CHRIST’S EXISTENCE, BEYOND TERRESTRIAL (DIVINE) TEACHINGS AND UNDERSTANDING, NUMEROUS INHUMAN (DEITY-LIKE) MIRACLES, CONSPICUOUSLY UNWORTHY OF DEATH CRUCIFIXION, RESURRECTION, AND ASCENSION. AND BECAUSE OF MY INDIVIDUAL BELIEF, PARTLY DUE TO UPBRINGING, BUT MOSTLY TO THE SHEER IMPOSSIBILITY OF A MORE PROBABLE EXPLANATION (AS INDICATED BY EARLIER BY ROCKINRED) OF THE WORLD/UNIVERSE AND THEIR RESPECTIVE GRANDEUR.


----------------------

What's Right and Wrong frequently depends on your viewpoint.

THIS IS IN FACT THE CUSP OF THE MATTER.

HOWEVER, UNLIKE OUR ESTEEMED AUTHOR ABOVE, I HOLD A DIFFERING OPINION. WHAT’S RIGHT AND WRONG IS SOLELY DETERMINED BY THE GREATEST AUTHORITY AND THEREBY VARIES ALONG WITH AUTHORITY UNTIL A HIGHEST IS REACHED. VERY RIGHT IN INDIA, MAY BE VERY WRONG IN AMERICA AND VICE VERSA. IT MAY BE RIGHT IN YOUR EYES TO RACE (EXCEEDING THE SPEED LIMIT) TO A MOVIE THEATER WHEN LATE, HOWEVER ROAD CONSTRAINTS BY WHICH SPEED LIMITS ARE DETERMINED, THE COP WITH THE RADAR GUN, AND MOREOVER STATE OF RESIDENCY HOLD THE AUTHORITY IN THE MATTER WHICH MAKES IT WRONG EVEN THOUGH THIS VERY SAME SCENARIO WOULD BE BOTH PARDONED AND ESCORTED IN CASES OF BIRTHING LABOR. SO THE QUESTION BECOMES…”WHAT OR WHO HOLDS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY WITH REGARD TO THE MORE EXISTENTIAL QUESTIONS OF MORALITY & ETHICS?” THE AUTHOR WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL DOES, THEREBY CREATING A MOST CHAOTIC SOCIETY. NOTE: PEOPLE WHO ROUTINELY BOTH ASSERT AND ASCRIBE TO THIS PHILOSOPHY ARE TYPICALLY INCARCERATED BY THEIR SOCIETY. AH PUNISHMENT, WE MIGHT THEN CONCLUDE THE MATTER WITH THE SIMPLE QUESTION, “DOES THERE EXIST A HIGHEST MORAL AUTHORITY THAT CAN PUNISH US AFTER DEATH FOR OUR ACTIONS OR LACK THEREOF (BELIEF IN CHRIST) IN LIFE? HOW YOU ANSWER THIS ULTIMATELY DETERMINES YOUR BEHAVIOR, AND MORE IMPORTANTLY TO MOST YOUR FREEDOMS...WHICH AFTERALL IS WHAT'S REALLY AT STAKE IS IT NOT?

IF I DO BELIEVE OR EVEN SEEK TO, THEN I'LL OWE ALLEGIANCE AND SUBSEQUENTLY SERVITUDE, BUT IF I DON'T THEN I'M FREE TO DO AS I PLEASE SO WHY BOTHER? AN AVER THE MOST HONEST OF ATHEISTS WILL ADMIT, AND RIGHTFULLY SO ACCEPT FOR THE ETERNITY QUESTION, WHICH THEY THEN NECESSARILY DISMISS.

[Tock]

My gosh, all this shouting . . .

…”WHAT OR WHO HOLDS THE ULTIMATE AUTHORITY WITH REGARD TO THE MORE EXISTENTIAL QUESTIONS OF MORALITY & ETHICS?” THE AUTHOR WOULD HAVE US BELIEVE THAT THE INDIVIDUAL DOES

Of course. Why should anyone in their right mind let a religious leader determine what is right and wrong? You might say, "No, Tock, it won't be a leader that makes those decisions, because it's all laid out for us in the pages of the Bible." I would reply, "Someone will have to read those words and tell everyone else what they mean, and I'd prefer that Someone be me, and not you." And then we'd argue over who gets to interpret the Word Of God, and what it means, and everything would get very messy and ugly.

So. Instead of all that, let's just keep everything nice and secular. When it's time to figure out if homosexuality or Sabbath breaking or adultery or jaywalking or breakdancing or stamp collecting is moral or not, since I am not a member of your religious cult, we aren't going to use your religious definitions of morality.
How about that?

[Tock]

THIS IS IN FACT THE CUSP OF THE MATTER.

WTF do you mean, "This is the Cusp of the matter?"
I thought you were a native english speaker . . .



Here's a definition of CUSP from Wiktionary:
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Noun
Singular
cusp
Plural
cusps

cusp (plural cusps)

1. A sharp point or pointed end.
2. (figuratively) An important moment when a decision is made that will determine future events.
3. (geometry) A point of a curve where it has two tangents.
4. (astrology) A boundary between zodiacal signs and houses.
5. (dentistry) Any of the pointed parts of a canine tooth or molar.