They say a vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Barack Obama, but

[Gators]

i just spent some time on his site, and i don't see how i cannot vote for him, i strongly agree w/ him on most every issue, he's the only candidate talking about curbing out of control spending, restoring personal liberties, and reeling in the bloated Federal gov't. The current Republican party is "Democrat Party Lite", so maybe a good ass kicking in November is what the Pub party needs to get it's head screwed back on straight. I mean i think Paul could defeat Obama, he's has fresh ideas that the people are looking for (i think) and is not a Marxist, i think Joe Q Public who is usually fairly central on issues, would vote for Paul over Obama, IMHO.

What makes me scratch my head (other than fleas) is how can folks who are Obama supporters also talk about voting for Paul. I'm not trying to pick a fight, or belittle, but i see the two as almost opposites, so can someone help me out here, i wonder if it's about anyone other than status quo, which i understand to a point.

peace.

[SMCengineer]

i just spent some time on his site, and i don't see how i cannot vote for him, i strongly agree w/ him on most every issue, he's the only candidate talking about curbing out of control spending, restoring personal liberties, and reeling in the bloated Federal gov't. The current Republican party is "Democrat Party Lite", so maybe a good ass kicking in November is what the Pub party needs to get it's head screwed back on straight. I mean i think Paul could defeat Obama, he's has fresh ideas that the people are looking for (i think) and is not a Marxist, i think Joe Q Public who is usually fairly central on issues, would vote for Paul over Obama, IMHO.

A vote for Paul is not a vote for Obama or Mccain. Someone who would vote for Paul, based on his issues, would not vote for Mccain, based on his issues. Likewise, someone who would vote for Paul, based on his issues, would not vote for Obama, based on his issues. The only candidate similar to Paul is Bob Barr and even he some wildly different policies than Paul.

What makes me scratch my head (other than fleas) is how can folks who are Obama supporters also talk about voting for Paul. I'm not trying to pick a fight, or belittle, but i see the two as almost opposites, so can someone help me out here, i wonder if it's about anyone other than status quo, which i understand to a point.

peace.

You ever hear that saying that "most Americans truly educated in politics would lean heavily towards Libertarianism?"




By the way, Paul got 24% last night in the Idaho primary, which is very good considering Mccain is supposed to have this wrapped up.

[Gators]

what is meant by 'a vote for Paul is a vote for Obama' is this is a contest between 2, so a conservative like i am voting for Paul takes a vote away from McCain...

[Voice of Reason]

R E V O L U T I O N ! ! !


...

[wilson9d]

it is true it is how clinton won his first election

[Pooks]

Did I miss something, is Ron Paul running as an independant?

Liberitarians just unveiled their candidate ... I already forgot who he is, but i believe he had a mustache. Prolly gets busted for smoking marijuana on the campaign bus or something.

[IronReload04]

Here is the problem......WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE ****ING REPUBLICANS OUT OF OFFICE.....mccane winning is going to be the same goddamn shit for the next 4 years.

i want more than ANYTHING......ANYTHING......for Ron paul to be our president.....But its just not practical.....Their is not way that enough people even know about him.....I just dont know that he has a chance........That basically in a nut shell is why I myself am a ron paul supporter, but will probably vote obama

[RuhlFreak55]

Here is the problem......WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE ****ING REPUBLICANS OUT OF OFFICE.....mccane winning is going to be the same goddamn shit for the next 4 years.

i want more than ANYTHING......ANYTHING......for Ron paul to be our president.....But its just not practical.....Their is not way that enough people even know about him.....I just dont know that he has a chance........That basically in a nut shell is why I myself am a ron paul supporter, but will probably vote obama

McCain is alot better than the taxing witch hunt dumb dumb obama wants to go after the rich with.......YOU DON'T TAX THE **** OUT OF THE RICH IF YOU WANT AN ECONOMY

[IronReload04]

McCain is alot better than the taxing witch hunt dumb dumb obama wants to go after the rich with.......YOU DON'T TAX THE **** OUT OF THE RICH IF YOU WANT AN ECONOMY

you have a point......I am not particularly crazy about any candidate, I just want to get out of Iraq.

[Psychotron]

I will be voting for Ron Paul. I don't like McCain on almost any point. If a democrat gets elected, then whatever, at least I voted for who I thought was best qualified.

[RuhlFreak55]

I will be voting for Ron Paul. I don't like McCain on almost any point. If a democrat gets elected, then whatever, at least I voted for who I thought was best qualified.

i'm confused how are you going to vote for ron paul? did something happen that i'm not aware of?

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

ev1 just vote Paul and it will send a message to the jerks in the big seats

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

[Pooks]

Here is the problem......WE HAVE GOT TO GET THE ****ING REPUBLICANS OUT OF OFFICE.....mccane winning is going to be the same goddamn shit for the next 4 years.

i want more than ANYTHING......ANYTHING......for Ron paul to be our president.....But its just not practical.....Their is not way that enough people even know about him.....I just dont know that he has a chance........That basically in a nut shell is why I myself am a ron paul supporter, but will probably vote obama

RON PAUL IS A REPUBLICAN hehe

[Gators]

you have a point......I am not particularly crazy about any candidate, I just want to get out of Iraq.

Nobody likes US troops dying, but now that we're in it, we HAVE to make sure Iraq is secure before we leave, but w/ the latest progress, that's feasible in a few years (not 100), if the war is prosecuted correctly (Bush screwed the pooch is this regard, namely Rumsfeld not listening to Sanchez and other very competent commanders there.

Why does Obama refuse to go there and meet w/ Petreaus and the troops? How can you make an accurate assessment of the situation w/ out going there.

[Psychotron]

i'm confused how are you going to vote for ron paul? did something happen that i'm not aware of?

If I am not mistaken regardless if he win the Republican nomination I can still vote for whoever I want. eg. Independent

[SMCengineer]

what is meant by 'a vote for Paul is a vote for Obama' is this is a contest between 2, so a conservative like i am voting for Paul takes a vote away from McCain...

...and what I'm saying is that a vote for Paul does not take away from Mccain because he would never have had that vote to begin with. Don't compromise your principles just to vote for the so called "republican" nominee. No matter what. Party loyalty is one of the biggest culprits for the degredation of the Republican name. It's also responsible for completely tarnishing and disgracing the conservate movement to a point where most people, including the ones who consider themselves conservatives, don't know what it means to actually be a conservative.

[Gators]

...and what I'm saying is that a vote for Paul does not take away from Mccain because he would never have had that vote to begin with. Don't compromise your principles just to vote for the so called "republican" nominee. No matter what. Party loyalty is one of the biggest culprits for the degredation of the Republican name. It's also responsible for completely tarnishing and disgracing the conservate movement to a point where most people, including the ones who consider themselves conservatives, don't know what it means to actually be a conservative.

i don't disagree w/ your logic, but trust me, i'm a Reagan Conservative, thus my disdain for the current Repub. party

[IronReload04]

RON PAUL IS A REPUBLICAN hehe

Ron Paul is also a constitutionalist

[RuhlFreak55]

Ron Paul is also a constitutionalist

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

[IronReload04]

Nobody likes US troops dying, but now that we're in it, we HAVE to make sure Iraq is secure before we leave, but w/ the latest progress, that's feasible in a few years (not 100), if the war is prosecuted correctly (Bush screwed the pooch is this regard, namely Rumsfeld not listening to Sanchez and other very competent commanders there.

Why does Obama refuse to go there and meet w/ Petreaus and the troops? How can you make an accurate assessment of the situation w/ out going there.

bottom line is we can't afford what we are doing. IF we are going to help Iraq, why have we turned our back and ignored slayings of other nations probably more severe than what Sadam was doing. Iraq was not a threat to us. If anything we should be focusing on afghanistan, but first understand why they attacked us in the first place.


The billions of dollars getting torn up supporting this war ever second, (which is for oil), could be spent on research for an alternative fuel source.

[IronReload04]

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

perhaps...you are more educated on this matter than myself....But even I know we cant keep up with what we are doing.....And for God sakes we cannot give the federal reserve even more power than they already have.

the value of the dollar has gone down, something has to change.

[SMCengineer]

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

Why is that?

[RuhlFreak55]

perhaps...you are more educated on this matter than myself....But even I know we cant keep up with what we are doing.....And for God sakes we cannot give the federal reserve even more power than they already have.

the value of the dollar has gone down, something has to change.

see the thing is though that without that flexibility in the money supply (fiat money....having no intrinsic value) you can't even manipulate the interest rates really.....so the fed could do NOTHING in times of crisis. So when bear stearns died a couple months ago we would have been literally ****ed, the entire banking system would have collapsed.

[IronReload04]

Why is that?

bump for ruhl, what I forgot to say in my other post

[RuhlFreak55]

Why is that?

the need for amounts of money in the economy changes all the time.....a demand and supply......so if the supply were totally fixed (gold standard) then the interest rates couldn't be changed because the money supply curve wouldn't be able to be moved to meet the demand where it needs to for the needed equilibrium interest rate......i'm still learning all this stuff it may not ALL be totally correct.

[RuhlFreak55]

there's also more too it that i can't remember right now i guess i have to wait for my calculus based macroecon course to learn it again lol

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

lol sssssshhhhhh

your gonna wake up godfather

[Gators]

bottom line is we can't afford what we are doing. IF we are going to help Iraq, why have we turned our back and ignored slayings of other nations probably more severe than what Sadam was doing. Iraq was not a threat to us. If anything we should be focusing on afghanistan, but first understand why they attacked us in the first place.


The billions of dollars getting torn up supporting this war ever second, (which is for oil), could be spent on research for an alternative fuel source.

Regardless, we're there, and leaving them too weak to defend themselves could very well result in Iran moving in, potentially DOUBLING the price of oil, can we afford that? It's going well now, we need to finish it, unfortunately. We also cannot afford: hundreds of billions in entitlement programs, a terribly inefficient and bloated Federal gov't wasting hundreds of billions every year, pork barrel projects, etc...

[J431S]

RON PAUL IS A REPUBLICAN hehe

i have always thought he is in a wrong club with a wrong agenda.

[Gators]

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

[SnaX]

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

No, that is what you were told. Your instructors opinion, because you're a student and know little, so he can manipulate you.

What won't work, and ISN'T working is our current party.

And it's not about "getting the republican's out", it's getting THOSE republicans out. Many republicans DO NOT LIKE Ron Paul, probably because his views put a huge damper on the other party's desires.

The constitution really is about allowing us to pursue our desires to be happy. We can do what we want as long as we don't break the laws.
Not all this "well you can't do this to yourself"

We CAN make our OWN decision, it's just that the govt passes ridiculous laws and TELL us it's for our own good (so basically saying we can't make our own decisions safely)... like we NEED them some how?

What do they even DO for us? Have their hands in our pockets and their ears on our front doors.

[bigt10]

i must say his gold standard idea would NEVER work based on what i learned in economics this past semester

Sorry that really pissed me off.

Why do you think a private organization away from the government with no oversight run by private bankers should be allowed to CREATE OUR CURRENCY?

Paper is worth nothing, and no one should set its value.

The constituion said very specifically the state shall only coin money not create it.

The people who did that alsio were ones that printed it before and they saw what happened. Every paper currency has failed to date.


Ya you know what a gold standard wont work 100%. But you cant have the people who runthe federal reserve a bunch of internationl bankers set the wealth and have this whole system created around credit and borrowing money.

If oyu read about ron paul he talks abot letting gold and silver compete against "money." That way they cant keep printing.

The reason the federal reserve was created is it was a partnership between 2 sides. 1 side the politicians realized they could be popular by printing money and being able to do more without paying taxes while the other side realized the POWER THEY HAD WHEN THEY WERE ABLE TO CONTROL AND ISSUE A WHOLE NATIONS CURRENCY.

You cant give them to much power and it always gets abused. The dollar is worth 4 cents what is was years ago. Anyone with any brain can figure out this interest based system and it only ends in debt everytime. Your dollar is always worth less then the new inflated one and wages never keep up.

The people behind this are the same people who desire a one world government, that way there is 1 bank, 1 currency, no borders and they are in complete control as they issue the currency.


Maybee you fail to realize the textbooks you read were also streamlined from the same people who control the banks, who control the media, and own the organizations who write the textbooks.

GO read up on Austrian economics also one of ron pauls idles. Ludwig Von Mises.

History does repeat it self and there is many who have learned throughout history the result of what happens when you giver the government 100 % power to CREATE not coin money.
----------------------------------------------------

“I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.” Thomas Jefferson, Letter to the Secretary of the Treasury Albert Gallatin (1802)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826) These are the words from one of the most influential presidents to ever serve “our country” in the White House and one of the authors of the declaration of independence."

-------------------------------


So what you are saying is we should give a cartel (resvere) 100 % power to creare and issue are money. What happens when it all crashed. We have nothing paper is worth nothing its an old trick.


GOld stanhdard 100 % is not reasonable but you cant outlaw gold and silver as valid currency. The problem is you cant create this system of credit and debt which is never paid back thats not real prosperity.

When your borrowing money its different. Imagine if we had gold coins, we would have never invaded iraq we couldnt afford it.

Look at history many times governments have had to try to finance wars to get a world empire by using paper money to print it off and everytime it fails/

The federal reserve is the worst thing that happend tothis country and they took al the real wealth which was the peoples gold and took it.

Its even worse now they have the power to inflate or deflate based on a computr system by creating digits. This is what causes these stock market crashes and bubles. YOu have this whole system based on fiat money and "credit". You should not just be allowed to create credit like that.

As i said anyone who gets the power of this always abuse it. Politicians like it cause they can abuse it to pay for things without tax and the federal reserve loves it for the power they gain. In the end it only means 1 thing which is a giant crash and a reversal back to gold.

to summarize this post i think we can allow paper but as ron paul said, televize their meetings, make them accountable, and put gold and silver back as legal tender. That way people can call in the banks debt and have some real wealth they can choose what they use as currency and it stops the inflation.

Fractional Reserve banking is the worst, and when you outlaw gold and silver you give them 100 % control.

[bigt10]

As to why we say follow the constitution thats why i want paul.

Hell i dont even 100 % agree on alot of his things btw.

Im not sold on abortion or his health care but to me that doesnt matter.

What does matter is the fact we have a bunch of international bankers running this country putting us into debt and trying to create a 1 world government.

Once you drop the federal reserve and have "sound money" wasteful spending will stop and problems tend to fix themselves.

Once you cut the head off the beat you can take care of the rest.

Obama is a great guy but he will be worse. How is he going to afford all this stuff come on guys.

There is a thread here murilonninja posted and it shows all the mega companies who are donating to campaigns.

There isn't 1 huge company that picked ron paul........

All th ebig banks were all sending their fiat money to all the other candidates.

And this is what drives me nuts is people want to argue over minor issues such as healthcare and education when we have a problem so big no body even notices.

When i think ron paul i think smaller reduced government, follow the constitution, sound money, and protect our own soil not fight the world.

Some people still don't know what the constitution is for. It was created to reduce and restrict the power of the government. The constituion also doesnt talk about fighting in other parts of the world and being the world police.

If we had true wealth like we did back in the day here things would be much better. I dream of a day where life is like this again here, where we dont have big companies and banks running our government.

The i will concern myself with abortion issues, education, healthcare, tax, etc.


So then what is Obamas stance on the NAU, NAU super highway, Federal reserve, illegal immigration, federal reserve, and the IRS income tax.

The fact he doesn't even talk about this and blatantly ignores it says something.....

He seems to be more concerned about being a great humanitarian and missing all these big issues.

[Gators]

As to why we say follow the constitution thats why i want paul.

Hell i dont even 100 % agree on alot of his things btw.

Im not sold on abortion or his health care but to me that doesnt matter.

What does matter is the fact we have a bunch of international bankers running this country putting us into debt and trying to create a 1 world government.

Once you drop the federal reserve and have "sound money" wasteful spending will stop and problems tend to fix themselves.

Once you cut the head off the beat you can take care of the rest.

Obama is a great guy but he will be worse. How is he going to afford all this stuff come on guys.

There is a thread here murilonninja posted and it shows all the mega companies who are donating to campaigns.

There isn't 1 huge company that picked ron paul........

All th ebig banks were all sending their fiat money to all the other candidates.

And this is what drives me nuts is people want to argue over minor issues such as healthcare and education when we have a problem so big no body even notices.

When i think ron paul i think smaller reduced government, follow the constitution, sound money, and protect our own soil not fight the world.

Some people still don't know what the constitution is for. It was created to reduce and restrict the power of the government. The constituion also doesnt talk about fighting in other parts of the world and being the world police.

If we had true wealth like we did back in the day here things would be much better. I dream of a day where life is like this again here, where we dont have big companies and banks running our government.

The i will concern myself with abortion issues, education, healthcare, tax, etc.


So then what is Obamas stance on the NAU, NAU super highway, Federal reserve, illegal immigration, federal reserve, and the IRS income tax.

The fact he doesn't even talk about this and blatantly ignores it says something.....

He seems to be more concerned about being a great humanitarian and missing all these big issues.

Bingo, nice post(s).

[bigt10]

ya thanks gator i am young to i already understand this banking thing.

I really feel bad for guys who are older, retired, etc they get screwed by this system.

Inflation and constant increase in a money supply is a bad thing.

Hell i feel for those retired citizens on pensions that now are worthless and all their savings turned into peanuts.

It was just like this war, the only people that benefit was the war/banking/industrial complex.

May i add if you research the founders of the Federal reserve were all highly connected i nthose industries.

Then what pisses me off is guys go on say shit like oh the GNP is great, the GDP went up etc.

This is terrible. It doesnt mean anything, often this money doesnt get recycled back into american and gets spent overseas or stays in america.


This is why the NAU, NAFTA, and NAU Superhighway are bad.

You all say yay cheaper products but it kills this countries prosperity. Instead of walmart buying goods made in america and paying americans, they pay the chinese dirt cheap wages and send them here and then they dont have to pay anything to import it.

Sure you might save 20 cents on an item but its bad for this countries prosperity. It just forces things out. Then the government over taxes and regulates and they just move further away from america.

Go look up some qoutes on what thomas jefferson said about money, trade, tax, and government.

You guys need to realize the people who made the constitution did for a reason. They had just abused the printing press previously to fund a war and they saw what happened. History repeats it self.

They knew what they did wrong and created these laws such as the states only being able to coin money for a reason.

What did barrack obama say about the patriot act. He is just another guy i hate he is trying to be "popular" instead of doing what is needed. He talks of all these cuts, more for the people, more healthcare, more education. I like his foregin policy.

WHat you all dont get is They are all the same except ron paul. Obama and McCain in my eyes are the same people we dont need. They are both running us into the poor and debt house they just take different ways to get there. On side we got a major war hog and on the other side we got the humanatarian.

Both will fund their useless operations with the same fiat money they are printing cause neither will decide to raise tax.

If we paid in gold none of this would even be talked about, it would be so bloody ridiclous no one would beleive it, but cause of our fractional reserver banking system people forget about debt.

But one day mark my words debt will come calling and it will be a huge reality. Sometime your going to have to pay back your debts, and when debt does come the first thing that will crash is this nations fiat currency and then the country and then well all be poor people back to gold.

Ron Paul sees this he has studied Austrian economics and understands the constitution. He understands a word called prosperity. As he said anyone can be rich if they just keep borrowing money and never have to pay it back.

All this over regulation just causes more problems. Then people keep arguing when really the best solution is less government and less restriction.

Look at the computer/electronics. Things are always improving and prices are falling like mad. They're is very little regulation in that industry.

IF at least we backed up our currency by gold an dbanks had to keep some gold we wouldn't have such a problem. To banks and the Fed it is now simply a computer game they play on their machines changing the money supply daily.

So back to the gold standard now it wont help. But the reason the constitution says states shall only coin money is so that they dont control the value or supply of it.

Therefore it doesnt get abused by the politicians and the banks/bug business for their own reasons. This is why it always gets abused and the people will always lose. The federal reserve is a partnership between the government and banks. The banks get to control the money with big corp's and the politicians get to be "popular" by spending money and not having to raise taxes. What i dont get is fractional reserve banking is the simplest issue to understand yet everyone ignores it and doesnt get it.

[bigt10]

This is why anyone who really supports paul understands his reasoning. They understand what is going on and he is the only one addressing the issues to fix it.

This is why they all dont settle for someone else.

Anyone who understands the reasons in which he chooses his stance on issues really understands why.

This is why the guy is great at debates. He stands up for what he beleives in wtih logic and intelligence.

Unlike the rest he doesnt change his thinking based on the other guy or telling the people what they want to hear.

he speaks the truth, but as always people dont want to hear the truth, then it all falls and they all have to bite the truth and will all complain in the end.

I dont want to be some 85 year old man in the future living poor with useless money and a collapsed nation turned into some 1 world government with an RFID chip and carrying around a national ID card like i am some farm animal or slave.

I want what the constitution says.

This is also why their is so many young people that really feel for ron paul. I am always an easy going person but stuff like this gets me hot anyday anytime.

[bigt10]

here are soem real questions i want to hear their stance on.

What are you going to do about the patriot act.

Why is the dollar worth 4 cents from what we started with.

Why are we 9 trillion dollars in debt.

Why is the state creating money when they are only allowed to coin it

What are you going to do about the NAU and the NAU superhighway.

What is your stance on NAFTA

What are we going to do stop illegal immigration

Why do we have bases in so many countries in the world

Why are we trying to fight so many countries

Why are we the world police.

Well again the only one that wants to answer any of this is ron paul. All you would have to do is take a quick look at the consitution and you can answer most of these.

I think people have lossed their ways in thinking they need to foloow the government and do what they say. We created the constitution to limit their powers not increase them.

The founders created it for a reason and because they had experienced and seen what happened in the past in order to prevent it.

[Gators]

here are soem real questions i want to hear their stance on.

What are you going to do about the patriot act. Dunno. Part of me despises it, but i know of NO ONE who it's done wrong. Fundamentally, it's wrong.

Why is the dollar worth 4 cents from what we started with. Liberals

Why are we 9 trillion dollars in debt. Idiots we elect can't balance a checkbook

Why is the state creating money when they are only allowed to coin it - federal gov't is out of control

What are you going to do about the NAU and the NAU superhighway. Bomb them?

What is your stance on NAFTA F nafta

What are we going to do stop illegal immigration. Bitching. The process is flawed, start by correcting that...

Why do we have bases in so many countries in the world. Imperialism

Why are we trying to fight so many countries. knuckle head jihadists are everywhere?

Why are we the world police.JFK said we will protect freedom, at any cost

Well again the only one that wants to answer any of this is ron paul. All you would have to do is take a quick look at the consitution and you can answer most of these.

I think people have lossed their ways in thinking they need to foloow the government and do what they say. We created the constitution to limit their powers not increase them.

The founders created it for a reason and because they had experienced and seen what happened in the past in order to prevent it.

For a lil' pup, good work

[brewerpi]

The election will be between Obama and McCain, Ron Paul won't be on the ballot in November 2008.