Several Stabbed in Tokyo...(Dangers of a disarmed society)

[Coop77]

Your argument ignores the equalizing effect that guns have. It is one weapon which gives an elderly lady a fighting chance against an attacker, regardless of the type of weapon they are using. Criminals will ALWAYS get their hands on weapons, be it guns, knives, bats, hammers, etc, etc... Pretty much any blunt, sharp, or heavy object can be used as a weapon. In addition just about any device capable of propelling things at a high speed can be used as a weapon.

That's a good point, about the equalizing effect. I can see why carrying a gun makes people feel safer. But really, does it make society safer if everybody's packin' heat, like the wild west? Think of every super heated fight/confrontation you've ever observed, or been in.. every road rage incident.. What if everybody had a gun on their belt. Accidental discharges in public places, kids getting a hold of them, etc. Most people are dumbasses.

If you outlaw guns, the only peoples hands that you take them out of is law abiding citizens.

Not if you do it right. Look at Japan. This guy couldn't get one. Shootings are almost non-existant in Japan. Maybe the mafia can get guns in Japan, but not your average mental case.

In this case, this man used a large vehicle as a deadly weapon, and then used a knife to continue his killing spree. Whether or not he had a gun was really inconsequential, because if Japan had an instituted CCW policy, at least 1 or 2 people in that crowd of victims would have been able to meet force with equal or greater force. I contend that even if the man had a firearm, less people would have been killed because an armed citizen would have taken him down.

In addition, unfortunately for your argument statistics regarding CCW are in my arguments favor and not yours.

The pro-CCW statistics you're looking at are all statistics in the US, where gun control is half assed and criminals can get guns. Look at the crime rate of countries with strict gun control compared to the US.

[soulstealer]

That's a good point, about the equalizing effect. I can see why carrying a gun makes people feel safer. But really, does it make society safer if everybody's packin' heat, like the wild west? Think of every super heated fight/confrontation you've ever observed, or been in.. every road rage incident.. What if everybody had a gun on their belt. Accidental discharges in public places, kids getting a hold of them, etc. Most people are dumbasses.


Not if you do it right. Look at Japan. This guy couldn't get one. Shootings are almost non-existant in Japan. Maybe the mafia can get guns in Japan, but not your average mental case.

BULLSHIT



The pro-CCW statistics you're looking at are all statistics in the US, where gun control is half assed and criminals can get guns. Look at the crime rate of countries with strict gun control compared to the US.

http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...r-Shooting.php
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...Name=worldNews

[Flagg]

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

How many people die in America from gun related deaths each year, something like 15,000-30,000? For people to suggest they need to carry guns to defend themselves from people with guns is pure paranoia and ludicrous and beggars belief. Do you really think, that if this guy had done this in America, that every dirty harry armed with a gun would just blow him away, no fear of accidently hitting someone else instead? Seriously, compare other countries in the West to America and the figures speak for themselves.

[inheritmylife]

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

How many people die in America from gun related deaths each year, something like 15,000-30,000? For people to suggest they need to carry guns to defend themselves from people with guns is pure paranoia and ludicrous and beggars belief. Do you really think, that if this guy had done this in America, that every dirty harry armed with a gun would just blow him away, no fear of accidentally hitting someone else instead? Seriously, compare other countries in the West to America and the figures speak for themselves.

In the website you linked the graph depicts only deaths involving guns. Take Switzerland for example: there are more guns per capita than nearly anywhere in the world, so of course a greater percentage of total homicides are going to include firearms. However, the Swiss have a substantially lower overall rate of homicide, rape, robbery, or any other violent crime than the UK, a country with very few guns and a total restriction of firearms.

Violent crime rates in America are not a result of the right to keep and bear arms. They are a result of many other factors that aren't so easy to just pass legislation to get rid of. Violent crime in America is actuallyfalling despite more guns being owned than ever, not to mention the sunsetting of the assault weapons ban and the increase in concealed carry states.

[soulstealer]

http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm

How many people die in America from gun related deaths each year, something like 15,000-30,000? For people to suggest they need to carry guns to defend themselves from people with guns is pure paranoia and ludicrous and beggars belief. Do you really think, that if this guy had done this in America, that every dirty harry armed with a gun would just blow him away, no fear of accidently hitting someone else instead? Seriously, compare other countries in the West to America and the figures speak for themselves.

So then you would propose that we disarm the entire populous and make sure the only the government and government agencies have firearms so as to what? create an authoritarian state? make the average citizen more vulnerable in their home? whats your motive?

[Flagg]

So then you would propose that we disarm the entire populous and make sure the only the government and government agencies have firearms so as to what? create an authoritarian state? make the average citizen more vulnerable in their home? whats your motive?

Motive? I'm not some secret government employee. The UK and Scotland had a gun amnisty a year or two back, that would be a good start! You seem to think owning a gun equates to freedom?? Less vulnerable in their home from what? America isn't the only place in the world where people have their houses burgled you know, and most people outside of America don't require a firearm to feel invulnerable in their house.

[soulstealer]

Motive? I'm not some secret government employee. The UK and Scotland had a gun amnisty a year or two back, that would be a good start! You seem to think owning a gun equates to freedom?? Less vulnerable in their home from what? America isn't the only place in the world where people have their houses burgled you know, and most people outside of America don't require a firearm to feel invulnerable in their house.

I think owning a gun equates to assistance in the defense of ones liberty..... So your telling me you would feel invulnerable in your own home wielding a bat against someone with a hand gun?

[Flagg]

I think owning a gun equates to assistance in the defense of ones liberty..... So your telling me you would feel invulnerable in your own home wielding a bat against someone with a hand gun?

Most burglars in the UK dont enter the premises with a handgun, do they in America?

[Coop77]

BULLSHIT
http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/...r-Shooting.php
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...Name=worldNews

According to the link in the post above this, Japan's shooting rate per 100k residents is 1/200 that of the US. I stand by my statement. The cases you found were very, very rare.

[soulstealer]

According to the link in the post above this, Japan's shooting rate per 100k residents is 1/200 that of the US. I stand by my statement. The cases you found were very, very rare.

http://www.davekopel.com/2A/Foreign/...le-Control.htm

Apparently non gun crime being equally as rare

Japans annual robbery rate being 1.8 per 100k per year
US is 205.4 per 100k per year that being 114.11 times the rate per capita if we extrapolate that out one would conclude that societal differences make the impact on the rate of crime and not gun control...

[soulstealer]

http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/crime.html

If you take a look at the page above specifically

The Japanese murder rate is about 1.1 per 100,000 people; West German has a rate of 3.9, Britain a rate of 9.1, and the U.S. 8.7 per 100,000 people.

we will see that a western society similar to ours except with extreme gun control laws has a higher murder rate then we do....

[Peducho0113]

http://www.bookmice.net/darkchilde/japan/crime.html

If you take a look at the page above specifically

The Japanese murder rate is about 1.1 per 100,000 people; West German has a rate of 3.9, Britain a rate of 9.1, and the U.S. 8.7 per 100,000 people.

we will see that a western society similar to ours except with extreme gun control laws has a higher murder rate then we do....

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