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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    Are you saying Iranian's are rational people with a legit claim to the land? Why? Why is it their land? Because their skin is a certain color? Because they want to build a Mosque there? Because in Iran the have turned the Muslim religion into an excuse to muder, brainwash and control people? They have no claim to that land either. Since the time of Constantine, Christians had gone on pilgrimages to the Holy Land. Even though Moslems had ruled Jerusalem since 638. Don't forget about the crusades 1000 years ago. The land is there for everyone in the world.
    I don't agree with modern interpretations of the Koran i think it should be completely revised to account for changes in modern society. It's their land as i stated in earlier posts as the modern sovereign states are descendants of those which controlled the middle east in antiquity. I agree all religions should have access to Jerusalem, in fact i believe Jerusalem should be a state itself similar to the Vatican in Rome free of politics. What do you mean remember the crusades ? Despite what you may think the Crusades was not an attempt to allow Christians access to Jerusalem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_sneed View Post
    I don't agree with modern interpretations of the Koran i think it should be completely revised to account for changes in modern society. It's their land as i stated in earlier posts as the modern sovereign states are descendants of those which controlled the middle east in antiquity. I agree all religions should have access to Jerusalem, in fact i believe Jerusalem should be a state itself similar to the Vatican in Rome free of politics. What do you mean remember the crusades ? Despite what you may think the Crusades was not an attempt to allow Christians access to Jerusalem.
    and let iran nuke isreal?
    NO WAY!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow2004 View Post
    and let iran nuke isreal?
    NO WAY!
    What the hell are you talking about? There is no definitive proof Iran is enriching Uranium, which By the way is the right of any sovereign state to use its countries natural resources. let alone build nuclear weapons never mind use them. Why would Iran nuke Jerusalem it has religous significance for Muslims also.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_sneed View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? There is no definitive proof Iran is enriching Uranium, which By the way is the right of any sovereign state to use its countries natural resources. let alone build nuclear weapons never mind use them. Why would Iran nuke Jerusalem it has religous significance for Muslims also.
    Why do you want to go back to school? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16heo...eature=related

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow2004 View Post
    Why do you want to go back to school? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16heo...eature=related
    Are you seriously referencing a youtube video as a reliable source of information! LMFAO !

    I can't watch it anyway on my PC but here's a newsflash. No shred of evidence Iran is enriching Uranium, making all assumptions of a nuclear threat void

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_sneed View Post
    Are you seriously referencing a youtube video as a reliable source of information! LMFAO !

    I can't watch it anyway on my PC but here's a newsflash. No shred of evidence Iran is enriching Uranium, making all assumptions of a nuclear threat void
    you're having a ****ing laugh, mate!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow2004 View Post
    you're having a ****ing laugh, mate!
    No i'm not please find some evidence and show me if your correct i will admit so. But youtube and posting pictures proves nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_sneed View Post
    I don't agree with modern interpretations of the Koran i think it should be completely revised to account for changes in modern society. It's their land as i stated in earlier posts as the modern sovereign states are descendants of those which controlled the middle east in antiquity. I agree all religions should have access to Jerusalem, in fact i believe Jerusalem should be a state itself similar to the Vatican in Rome free of politics. What do you mean remember the crusades ? Despite what you may think the Crusades was not an attempt to allow Christians access to Jerusalem.
    A decentenat of the people who once controlled a land.
    I guess I should give my house to the Native American's.

    Make no mystake, they hate the Jewish people and it's an assertion of power of the Muslim religion.

    We don't belong fighting Iran or defending the Jews imo. The whole thing is screwed up by oil. People have been killing themselves over that land for thousands of years. Getting involved in a holy war is the best excuse we can give them to perpetuate hate for America.

    The whole region is so f-ed up, if there is no outside stabilizing force, they'll all blow each other up. Oil keeps America there.

    It's my understanding, the Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule. Many Christians died for Jerusalem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kratos View Post
    A decentenat of the people who once controlled a land.
    I guess I should give my house to the Native American's.

    Make no mystake, they hate the Jewish people and it's an assertion of power of the Muslim religion.

    We don't belong fighting Iran or defending the Jews imo. The whole thing is screwed up by oil. People have been killing themselves over that land for thousands of years. Getting involved in a holy war is the best excuse we can give them to perpetuate hate for America.

    The whole region is so f-ed up, if there is no outside stabilizing force, they'll all blow each other up. Oil keeps America there.

    It's my understanding, the Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the Holy Land from Muslim rule. Many Christians died for Jerusalem.
    Well the Native American has virtually been wiped from the earth by America and it's an issue that like many others regarding America is brushed under the carpet. I don't agree with hatred of Jews at all i hope your not asserting that i do, i simply question the legitimacy of the state of Israel which was created from former British Palestine at Britain's discretion without the consultation of Muslims/Arabs the rightful owners of the land prior to British(Palestine + Lebanon) and French (Syria) imperialism in the area. I agree that without some sort of sustainable peace the region will descend into war as throughout history it always has. The first ever recorded military battle was fought in this area (Egypt/Hittites at Kadesh) and is likely to remain a region of conflict as long as religious tension prevails. Thats why i would advocate an independent Jerusalem free from the sovereingty of any state governed both by Muslims, Christians and Jews.

    > About the Crusades, The Pope declared help from European rulers to recapture Jerusalem yes correct but the political reality was rather different. An excuse for expansionism, jealousy of Muslim culture/power (The Umayyad Caliphate was the preodminant world power at the time). The fourth (there were 9 in total) crusade is evidence of this as Europeans actually attacked Constantinople which was a traditional ally of Christianity as part of the Byzantine Empire totally ignoring the aim of regaining Jerusalem just using the crusades as an excuse for plunder. Many Christians massacred Jews thorughout the Crusades particularly the first and had loyalty to their Kings not their religion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sam_sneed View Post
    Well the Native American has virtually been wiped from the earth by America and it's an issue that like many others regarding America is brushed under the carpet. I don't agree with hatred of Jews at all i hope your not asserting that i do, i simply question the legitimacy of the state of Israel which was created from former British Palestine at Britain's discretion without the consultation of Muslims/Arabs the rightful owners of the land prior to British(Palestine + Lebanon) and French (Syria) imperialism in the area. I agree that without some sort of sustainable peace the region will descend into war as throughout history it always has. The first ever recorded military battle was fought in this area (Egypt/Hittites at Kadesh) and is likely to remain a region of conflict as long as religious tension prevails. Thats why i would advocate an independent Jerusalem free from the sovereingty of any state governed both by Muslims, Christians and Jews.

    > About the Crusades, The Pope declared help from European rulers to recapture Jerusalem yes correct but the political reality was rather different. An excuse for expansionism, jealousy of Muslim culture/power (The Umayyad Caliphate was the preodminant world power at the time). The fourth (there were 9 in total) crusade is evidence of this as Europeans actually attacked Constantinople which was a traditional ally of Christianity as part of the Byzantine Empire totally ignoring the aim of regaining Jerusalem just using the crusades as an excuse for plunder. Many Christians massacred Jews thorughout the Crusades particularly the first and had loyalty to their Kings not their religion.

    If anyone here are COWARDS it is those like you preaching how we should appease and kowtow to political correctness and not defend our cities against a possible nuclear strike from those that have threated us with using them. Be they large countries or little ones the threat with nukes is now very real. Cowards are those here that want to turn a blind eye to what is happening and not take action to but a stop to it.

    I don't live in fear I live in the real world. I guess you don't remember 9/11 or the hundreds of other terrorist attacks being committed in the world against us by radical muslims?
    Not withstanding your opinion and comment the analogy holds, your kind wants to stick their head in the sand while Iran builds a nuclear bomb and pretend it isn't happening.
    Just like Germany did when the world KNEW they were rearming and chose to hope they would just use them for parades I guess?

    So sure the US has the mightest army in the world that didn't stop 9/11 did it? That didn't stop the bombings of embassies throughout the world or the USS Cole, did it?
    Now with WMD the threat takes on a whole new level of seriousness, doesn't it?

    Or do you suggest we once again sit back and wait until they hide a nuke in a shipping container and detonate it in one of our cities? Is that your definition of honor?
    Sit around and wait for a known and admitted enemy that has declared war on the world, has threatened to use WMD if they get their hands on them (remember Iran is a supplier of muslim terrorists) and has publically stated he believes in a coming apocalypse.

    This is how you want to live? Bury your head in the sand (like the world did in the 1930's) and hope that when Iran gets nukes they agree to play nice with them?

    Maybe you don't live in a big city so you don't care? Is that it?
    I guess millions of innocent lives are not important enough to protect from a maniacal madman that is working towards obtaining nuclear weapons?

    As for the Iran/Iraq war (which is not forgotten) isn't it interesting that although Iraq started it, it was Iran that was on the offensive for much of the later part of the war. Iraq used poison gas (A WMD by the way), I wonder what Iran would have done had they nukes at that time?
    Any guesses?

    This isn't a game Free, these people are religious fanatic's that will stop at nothing to change the world in the name of (radical) Islam.
    The threat (not fear) is real and needs to be addressed. I find it sad that people here can't see evil for what it is unless it is explicitly spelled out for them.
    Once again the analogy of Hilter applies, he gave militant speeches and yet the rest of the world chose not to believe him. HELLO, do you not learn anything from history?????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow2004 View Post
    If anyone here are COWARDS it is those like you preaching how we should appease and kowtow to political correctness and not defend our cities against a possible nuclear strike from those that have threated us with using them. Be they large countries or little ones the threat with nukes is now very real. Cowards are those here that want to turn a blind eye to what is happening and not take action to but a stop to it.

    I don't live in fear I live in the real world. I guess you don't remember 9/11 or the hundreds of other terrorist attacks being committed in the world against us by radical muslims?
    Not withstanding your opinion and comment the analogy holds, your kind wants to stick their head in the sand while Iran builds a nuclear bomb and pretend it isn't happening.
    Just like Germany did when the world KNEW they were rearming and chose to hope they would just use them for parades I guess?

    Way to leave out that it's a "terrorist" problem that WE created by our MEDDLING IN THEIR AFFAIRS! If you would pull your head out of your ass and actually listen to the grievances of the people who attakced us, maybe you would have a more complete understanding of the political atmosphere and not the one which is spoon fed to you by your Command or the propagandized rhetoric spoon fed to you by the BBC or Fox News Network.

    Osama Bin Laden made it clear why he attacked us. We have bases on their holy land in Saudi Arabia, we continually meddle in their affairs, and we sponsor the state of Israel which commits THOUSANDS of human rights violations against the Palestinian peoples!

    Those are LEGITIMATE greivances against our government. They pre-date any terrorist attacks against the mainland of the US/UK. But according to your rhetoric, we can do whatever we please in the name of "stability" or some other such propagandized nonsense. You're probably also of the same crowd who believes people should sacrafice civil liberties in the name of "national security" or "safety."

    I am more afraid of YOU then I am of any "terrorists," who in all actuality are combatants waging a war against a country which has more weapons, more troops, more technology, more money, and more power then it will ever hope to achieve. Yet they fight us dilligently to get us off of their land and out of their personal political affairs to which we have NO BUSINESS BEING IN.

    In addition, the United States Constitution does not authorize us to have alliances with states like Israel, and it does not authorize us to pursue "Pre-emptive warfare."

    Political Scientists use certain lenses of analysis to evaluate threats in international relations. So we can use the realist theory to evaluate your pathetic analogy of Iran to Nazi Germany. The difference between a threat coming from Adolf Hitler and Ahmedinjehad are huge. Whilst Germany had one of the largest and most technologically advanced Army's in the world, Iran does not. If Germany threatened to invade a country or "wipe it off the map" the threat was REAL, because Germany had the CAPABILITY to carry out its threats. Iran in contrast, LACKS ALL CAPABILITY TO MAKE GOOD ON SUCH THREATS. So you're comparison fails any legitimate scientific rational which political scientists use to evaluate these threats. So, it is quite obvious there is some hidden agenda, and it is usually motivated by either money or some religious fanatical agenda (in this case Christian vs. Muslim).






    So sure the US has the mightest army in the world that didn't stop 9/11 did it? That didn't stop the bombings of embassies throughout the world or the USS Cole, did it?
    Now with WMD the threat takes on a whole new level of seriousness, doesn't it?

    Or do you suggest we once again sit back and wait until they hide a nuke in a shipping container and detonate it in one of our cities? Is that your definition of honor?
    Sit around and wait for a known and admitted enemy that has declared war on the world, has threatened to use WMD if they get their hands on them (remember Iran is a supplier of muslim terrorists) and has publically stated he believes in a coming apocalypse.

    Again Iran lacks any sort of effectively delivery system to carry out attacks on the MAIN LAND OF THE UNITED STATES. That means that it is NOT a national security threat to this country. And that means that we have no legitimate reason under our Constitution to goto war with them. What Iran could possibly do to Israel or other countries in that region, IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!


    This is how you want to live? Bury your head in the sand (like the world did in the 1930's) and hope that when Iran gets nukes they agree to play nice with them?

    Maybe you don't live in a big city so you don't care? Is that it?
    I guess millions of innocent lives are not important enough to protect from a maniacal madman that is working towards obtaining nuclear weapons?

    As for the Iran/Iraq war (which is not forgotten) isn't it interesting that although Iraq started it, it was Iran that was on the offensive for much of the later part of the war. Iraq used poison gas (A WMD by the way), I wonder what Iran would have done had they nukes at that time?
    Any guesses?

    LOL....as if either side was justified in what they did. That conflict was also none of our business. It's hilarious that you would bring this war up to try and demonize Iran when it fit your agenda, and make Iran sound "worse" than Iraq. Yet you support invading both countries and killing MILLIONS of civilians and claiming "collateral damage" and when just a few thousand people get killed here, it's time for us to exact revenge on 18 people by killing 1 million. Yea, that makes sense, that is aferall, what you're "God" tells you to do right?


    This isn't a game Free, these people are religious fanatic's that will stop at nothing to change the world in the name of (radical) Islam.
    The threat (not fear) is real and needs to be addressed. I find it sad that people here can't see evil for what it is unless it is explicitly spelled out for them.
    Once again the analogy of Hilter applies, he gave militant speeches and yet the rest of the world chose not to believe him. HELLO, do you not learn anything from history?????
    My replies to your baseless warmongering fearmongerng bullshit are in Bold above...

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    My replies to your baseless warmongering fearmongerng bullshit are in Bold above...
    You'd better start thinking about the fact that we all live in one planet
    (you really should do some research)
    LOOK
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    You sound like a bleeding heart liberal.
    Last edited by Glow2004; 07-12-2008 at 06:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thegodfather View Post
    My replies to your baseless warmongering fearmongerng bullshit are in Bold above...

    Actually.. it is our business if our interest or allies are attacked, and we do and will take action, we always have, and always will.

    these types of threads are the reason we no longer have a political/religious forum.

    This is a news item, not a stage for someone's isolationist thoughts and desires, i for one would support an isolationist and "containment" foreign policy, however with the fall of Russia, and the release of so much refined uranium, and uncontrolled release of information, we must not allow peasants, and thieves, and murderers that would force their will on the people of the world to go unchecked..

    It's the bully on the playground, he must be put in check..
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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard View Post
    Actually.. it is our business if our interest or allies are attacked, and we do and will take action, we always have, and always will.

    these types of threads are the reason we no longer have a political/religious forum.

    This is a news item, not a stage for someone's isolationist thoughts and desires, i for one would support an isolationist and "containment" foreign policy, however with the fall of Russia, and the release of so much refined uranium, and uncontrolled release of information, we must not allow peasants, and thieves, and murderers that would force their will on the people of the world to go unchecked..

    It's the bully on the playground, he must be put in check..

    I would have expected you of all people to know the difference between "Isolationism" and "Non-Interventionism," as they are two completely and totally different things. I am not advocating isolationism by any means. I completely support trading with other nations and talking with them in diplomatic ways. What I do not support however is US intervention in their affairs, like overthrowing elected governments via the CIA, and killing 1 million people in the name of "Democracy." Things like those have consequences for us, they usually cause us more harm than good. The CIA itself (and im referencing Congressmen Paul here) has said that our actions cause a blowback effect. In essence, when we meddle in the affairs of the middle east, we cause unforseen side effects such as coddifying the resolve fo the terrorists and expanding their support base.

    How can anyone in good conscience and of sound mind actually blame these people for hating us after all the pain, suffering, and death we have caused in the region? We cannot continually intervene in their affairs, kill people, and instill OUR WILL over the will of THEIR PEOPLE and expect there to be no negative consequences.

    We have been intervening in their affairs since the 1940s&50s starting with the state of Israel and overthrowing Mossadeq in Iran. These people have years and years of hatred built up for us for what we have done. This "terrorist" problem didn't happen overnight, people didnt wake up one day and decide to start committing suicide bombings for no reason. It was a continual process, and we have pushed these people to the limit, and they are tired of our shit. Being able to understand your enemy is the first step in resolving conflicts, and its a shame that not many American citizens, politicians, or leaders are very interested in trying to do this. They are evil, we are good... Thats all I hear...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spywizard View Post
    Actually.. it is our business if our interest or allies are attacked, and we do and will take action, we always have, and always will.

    these types of threads are the reason we no longer have a political/religious forum.

    This is a news item, not a stage for someone's isolationist thoughts and desires, i for one would support an isolationist and "containment" foreign policy, however with the fall of Russia, and the release of so much refined uranium, and uncontrolled release of information, we must not allow peasants, and thieves, and murderers that would force their will on the people of the world to go unchecked..

    It's the bully on the playground, he must be put in check..

    Ok, so who is going to put the USA in check then?
    ***No source checks!!!***

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