First Cycle

[DSM4Life]

You know PT I really think we should be pushing the dbol jump start more in the first cycle. I really dont see the sides from that combo being an issue

Don't agree with this for a first cycle. Test only is best for a beginner.

[Phate]

You know PT I really think we should be pushing the dbol jump start more in the first cycle. I really dont see the sides from that combo being an issue

Don't agree with this for a first cycle. Test only is best for a beginner.

whether to include dbol or not should be judged on a thread by thread basis

[DSM4Life]

whether to include dbol or not should be judged on a thread by thread basis

Curious, how did you come up with this conclusion ?

[Phate]

And how did you come up with this conclusion ?

cause it's in between both of ya'll, lol

because whether or not dbol, or any kick for that, should be used is based off a risk vs. reward, which is essentially up to the thread starter, we can supply the fact and advise accordingly but saying that he can't take dbol is not correct because some people can use dbol to kickstart with no ill effects at all

it's all based on the individual

[DSM4Life]

cause it's in between both of ya'll, lol

because whether or not dbol, or any kick for that, should be used is based off a risk vs. reward, which is essentially up to the thread starter, we can supply the fact and advise accordingly but saying that he can't take dbol is not correct because some people can use dbol to kickstart with no ill effects at all

it's all based on the individual

This is where you are wrong. Lets rewind

First thread

"My first cycle on steroids, whats the best way to start off small so i can get the most gains with both oral as a kick start and injectable? and also what pht? etc!? everything ill need!?"

He even says, "i want to start small."

Clearly we see this guys has NO experience what-so-ever. We always get a few guy that say, well use the search button, cause they are either tired as hell from answering the same question or they don't even know the answer themselves.

Then we have PT (not flaming just using this as an example)
He says

"1-5 35mgs od d-bol ed
1-12 500mgs of test a week "

So lets put this together. Guy asked for a cycle and PT gave it.
Now where is the education here ? Where was it even mentioned that most people might want to start off with just test ? Now this noob has it in his head that dbol and test is a good place to start. Why does it think this? because he was TOLD not educated.

There werent even any stats taken !
At this point we dont even know how long this guys been working out !

...shakes head.

[one8nine]

This is where you are wrong. Lets rewind

First thread

"My first cycle on steroids, whats the best way to start off small so i can get the most gains with both oral as a kick start and injectable? and also what pht? etc!? everything ill need!?"

He even says, "i want to start small."

Clearly we see this guys has NO experience what-so-ever. We always get a few guy that say, well use the search button, cause they are either tired as hell from answering the same question or they don't even know the answer themselves.

Then we have PT (not flaming just using this as an example)
He says

"1-5 35mgs od d-bol ed
1-12 500mgs of test a week "

So lets put this together. Guy asked for a cycle and PT gave it.
Now where is the education here ? Where was it even mentioned that most people might want to start off with just test ? Now this noob has it in his head that dbol and test is a good place to start. Why does it think this? because he was TOLD not educated.

There werent even any stats taken !
At this point we dont even know how long this guys been working out !

...shakes head.

thats why i posted starter packs

good call on stats

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

[DSM4Life]

thats why i posted starter packs

good call on stats

age
height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

I think a lot of us forget what it was like going over to the dark side. I remember my first shot , my hands were shaking so much i had to have my buddy stick me. We laugh about it now but this guy is that kid with shaking hands. I dont think there is any reason to push these new guys any harder then you would a family member.

[one8nine]

Don't agree with this for a first cycle. Test only is best for a beginner.

but the test takes 4-6 weeks to peak
so you get to experience dbol only at first then test only to finish

[DSM4Life]

but the test takes 4-6 weeks to peak
so you get to experience dbol only at first then test only to finish

Listen, to just thrown in some dbol might sound harmless to you or someone who has been doing this for a while but for a beginner it could be. These guys have no experience using any of these compounds so they should be taking it slow. You say test takes 4-6 weeks to peak, who cares, then you wait 4-6 weeks. They need to see how their body reacts to these compounds before they start stacking.

Most of these guys dont even know how to inject correctly. BABY STEPS

I have preached the test only cycle for a beginner since i been here and nothing will change my mind.

[one8nine]

Listen, to just thrown in some dbol might sound harmless to you or someone who has been doing this for a while but for a beginner it could be. These guys have no experience using any of these compounds so they should be taking it slow. You say test takes 4-6 weeks to peak, who cares, then you wait 4-6 weeks. They need to see how their body reacts to these compounds before they start stacking.

Most of these guys dont even know how to inject correctly. BABY STEPS

I have preached the test only cycle for a beginner since i been here and nothing will change my mind.

well then, listen.
well have to agree to disagree.

imo its not much of a "stack" if theyre not peaked at the same time.

are you implying that dbol is more harsh than test e?
the beauty of orals is if the user doesnt react in a positive manor, on average they have a 4, 8 or 12 hour active life