check out this first cycle

[DEVLDOG]

im not looking to be mr olympia bro. my goal is 15-20 pounds of lean mass. from what ive read and heard from others, the cycle i have planned will allow me to keep such gains. thanks for trying to help but i know for a fact that isn't the right advice to give me at this time.

15-20lbs of lean mass???

go to the super market and put 20lbs of steak in a shopping cart and then you will come to realize what 15-20lbs of lean mass is? takes yrs my friends,yrs for that kind of gains....definately attainable but not with "12 week cycle" and whoever told you you will keep your gains,well,let me just say this,when you get your 20lbs of lean mass and keep it 6 months after your clean,come back and show me a picture,you will be the first one I ever see do that


if you dont believe me google kevin levrone,,look at the incredibloe size he was when he competed and look at him now that he is "clean"...pipedream thinking you can keep the size,get it out of your head now,you will save yourself the depression of the reality when you decide to stay clean

goodluck to you

[god-send]

thats why i ran my first cycle @ 165lbs and gained 39lbs 18 months later i was still up 30lbs @ 9% body fat.

[DEVLDOG]

thats why i ran my first cycle @ 165lbs and gained 39lbs 18 months later i was still up 30lbs @ 9% body fat.

so your saying you gained 39lbs of muscle

ok,if you say so
at 165lbs you were probably under nourished to begin with,not sure what your starting bf% was but gonna guess you were lower...the 9% at 165lbs unlesss your 5' tall,then you have alot of room to grow,no offense,just true

[god-send]

no am saying i was 30 lbs up 18 months after my 1st cycle.

so i say 20-25lbs of that was off the cycle and the rest natty

[DEVLDOG]

no am saying i was 30 lbs up 18 months after my 1st cycle.

and you think those 30lbs were lean muscle lbs? because thats what we are talking about here

[michael tyson]

so if i take AAS and surpass my 'natural peak' and beyond.... after i'm clean, i wont even be able to maintain my 'natural peak' with a good diet and hard training? please teach me, i'm all ears

[god-send]

so your saying you gained 39lbs of muscle

ok,if you say so
at 165lbs you were probably under nourished to begin with,not sure what your starting bf% was but gonna guess you were lower...the 9% at 165lbs unlesss your 5' tall,then you have alot of room to grow,no offense,just true

i agree my i was under nourished but i did gain alot of lean mass of my 1st cycle and kept it after keeping up a good diet and training ragime

[DEVLDOG]

so if i take AAS and surpass my 'natural peak' and beyond.... after i'm clean, i wont even be able to maintain my 'natural peak' with a good diet and hard training? please teach me, i'm all ears

you will never know once you start using what your natural potential was.

not sure what your question is

[mx3]

I can't believe this first cycle critique thread went to 2 pages.

[DEVLDOG]

i agree my i was under nourished but i did gain alot of lean mass of my 1st cycle and kept it after keeping up a good diet and training ragime

so most likely when you started you began to eat well and train harder thus you would have grown anyway,but regardless 5lbs a year of lean muscle is hard to accomplish but a realistic goal,nobody can gain 30+lbs of lean mass in 1yr let alone 1 cycle,usually 1st cylcles are nothing but bloat because diet is the last thing everyone takes focus on

[god-send]

devldog this may seem like a strange question but do you think after all that gear and jumping on nolva/clomid to get your mrs pregnant will have any effect on your childrens genectics?

stange question i know.

[warchild]

i think we hi jacked this guys thread

[DEVLDOG]

devldog this may seem like a strange question but do you think after all that gear and jumping on nolva/clomid will have any effect on your childrens genectics?

stange question i know.

not a strange question,one i asked myself alot but heres the truth

I have 4 kids and 1 on the way..was on gear for ALL of them

4 boys and 1 girl
18
14
9
3
and the unborn one
they are all healthy as could be,my 9yr old is shredded and muscled up like no other 9yr old ive seen,could be the MMA training he has done for 2 yrs now but thank god they are all healthy

[god-send]

thanks for your honest answer.

[DEVLDOG]

listen bro

Ill be the first to tell anyone,I dont know everything,but what I do know and am more then willing to share is my personal experiences and those of guys I was close to including 2 olympia contestants and 2 National level bodybuilders.take it for what its worth and please,dont believe everything you read.experience is the best teacher,have an open mind and be willing to use yourself for a bit of a test animal to get it dialed in just right for yourself

goodluck

im out

[michael tyson]

you will never know once you start using what your natural potential was.

not sure what your question is

i would like to think that after going on AAS and accomplishing the gains i will on it, i will be at least to my natural potential after i go clean.... am i making no sense?? im tired as ****

[michael tyson]

ok, general consensus. you cant keep your gains unless you stay on AAS forever

/thread

["Maximus"]

listen bro

Ill be the first to tell anyone,I dont know everything,but what I do know and am more then willing to share is my personal experiences and those of guys I was close to including 2 olympia contestants and 2 National level bodybuilders.take it for what its worth and please,dont believe everything you read.experience is the best teacher,have an open mind and be willing to use yourself for a bit of a test animal to get it dialed in just right for yourself

goodluck

im out

Right on, Dev! Thanks for the advice... U were the 2nd person to advice/go against about the 12wks cycle myth! I guess this is one of the secrets the Pros on the real world use. Thanks bro, I appreciate the solid advice and look forward to your input on other subjects!

Max

[peachfuzz]

I would say that 99% of the people on here that are wanting to cycle are doing it for no other reason than aesthetics. No desire to compete just at a point in our lives where we want to look better. We all have lives outside of bodybuilding and AAS. Im also going to say that an even larger percentage do not have the funds, dedication, nor the knowledge to cycle year round with illegal drugs.

Devldog the wisdom you offer is golden. However I dont think it is applicable to a majority of the people here. Also without knowing a persons medical history, predispositions or their understanding of something as complex as the endocrine system, recommending prolonged use can have reprocussions.

Lets look at some those effects.
-legality. an issue for most of us
-altered glucose tolerance
-blood pressure
-cholesterol
-clotting abnormalities

...I can continue but i know im preaching to the choir.

Most of us dont know what you know. we do not have the "experience" you do with these drugs. so without that level of understanding we are not qualified to make decisions on that level. Recommending to stay on cycle is not the same as recommending what gym to work out at. (and i know your not saying it is)

and you may say "then you shouldnt be using...so on and so on. I will have to say to that. I agree.... However, being naive, few are gonna say "ok"

No disrespect devldog. I agree with alot of your points, but that is my take on it.

[DEVLDOG]

I would say that 99% of the people on here that are wanting to cycle are doing it for no other reason than aesthetics. No desire to compete just at a point in our lives where we want to look better. We all have lives outside of bodybuilding and AAS. Im also going to say that an even larger percentage do not have the funds, dedication, nor the knowledge to cycle year round with illegal drugs.

Devldog the wisdom you offer is golden. However I dont think it is applicable to a majority of the people here. Also without knowing a persons medical history, predispositions or their understanding of something as complex as the endocrine system, recommending prolonged use can have reprocussions.

Lets look at some those effects.
-legality. an issue for most of us
-altered glucose tolerance
-blood pressure
-cholesterol
-clotting abnormalities

...I can continue but i know im preaching to the choir.

Most of us dont know what you know. we do not have the "experience" you do with these drugs. so without that level of understanding we are not qualified to make decisions on that level. Recommending to stay on cycle is not the same as recommending what gym to work out at. (and i know your not saying it is)

and you may say "then you shouldnt be using...so on and so on. I will have to say to that. I agree.... However, being naive, few are gonna say "ok"

No disrespect devldog. I agree with alot of your points, but that is my take on it.

thats cool bro

it always comes down to an individual decision,for the ones like me who cant get big enough,I offer my experience,for the guy who wants to look good on the beach,I honestly believe you are doing yourself more harm then good,probably the guy that goes out and drinks a couple nites a wek or just on the weekend,smokes...etc. me,I dont do any of it.I guess you could say it all balances out in the end.

look,im not saying do what I do,I just know for myself when i was coming up,you couldnt get anybody to tell you shit,ppl would just repeat what they read or what there friends brother told them ..etc and i see that all over this board,just recycled info and alot of it is horseshit....if i had my choice id want to hear it from someone whos been there and still kicking.thats what i offer,take it or leave it,its up to the individual

[michael tyson]

thats cool bro

it always comes down to an individual decision,for the ones like me who cant get big enough,I offer my experience,for the guy who wants to look good on the beach,I honestly believe you are doing yourself more harm then good,probably the guy that goes out and drinks a couple nites a wek or just on the weekend,smokes...etc. me,I dont do any of it.I guess you could say it all balances out in the end.

look,im not saying do what I do,I just know for myself when i was coming up,you couldnt get anybody to tell you shit,ppl would just repeat what they read or what there friends brother told them ..etc and i see that all over this board,just recycled info and alot of it is horseshit....if i had my choice id want to hear it from someone whos been there and still kicking.thats what i offer,take it or leave it,its up to the individual

how is wanting to look good on the beach doing more harm than wanting to bench 400?

[DEVLDOG]

how is wanting to look good on the beach doing more harm than wanting to bench 400?

do you read everything or just selective reading?

because the fkn guy who wants to look good just for the beach is the same guy who doesnt train 9months a yr and sits in the bars on the weekends killing his liver....trains and juices in the summer time to try and look good then winter comes and he is back to wearing clothes to cover up.

compared to the guy who is dedicated and has made it a way of life with regards to training,eating,sleeping...etc,who does it because its in his blood and he doesnt accept being average and will never be average...

the guy that just wants to look good for the beach has no clue and is usually the one asking stupid questions on a steroid board.

like:

how is wanting to look good on the beach doing more harm than wanting to bench 400?

[michael tyson]

do you read everything or just selective reading?

because the fkn guy who wants to look good just for the beach is the same guy who doesnt train 9months a yr and sits in the bars on the weekends killing his liver....trains and juices in the summer time to try and look good then winter comes and he is back to wearing clothes to cover up.

compared to the guy who is dedicated and has made it a way of life with regards to training,eating,sleeping...etc,who does it because its in his blood and he doesnt accept being average and will never be average...

the guy that just wants to look good for the beach has no clue and is usually the one asking stupid questions on a steroid board.

like:

how is wanting to look good on the beach doing more harm than wanting to bench 400?

i see your point, thanks for the post bro.