I do this...
Nolva - 20/20/20/20
Clomid - 50/50/25/25
Post Cycle Extraordinaire~GOT PCT?
I do this...
Nolva - 20/20/20/20
Clomid - 50/50/25/25
Anabolic Member
Really???Originally Posted by war4BTT
I have never done that myself. Any added benefits from it?? Me personally....
Nolva 20/20/20/20/20/20
Hcg 500/500/500
Aromasin 25/25/25/25/25
sometimes if I do a cycle for over 14 weeks i bump the nolva to 40 a day for 6 weeks. I just want to make absolutely sure everything is done properly. I take my PCT VERY seriously. I have thought of Clomid before but have never used it. Never even thought i had too...
Anyone else agree with what I do for my PCT??
Banned- Scammer!
Not really, but if it works...Really???
I have never done that myself. Any added benefits from it?? Me personally....
Nolva 20/20/20/20/20/20
Hcg 500/500/500
Aromasin 25/25/25/25/25
sometimes if I do a cycle for over 14 weeks i bump the nolva to 40 a day for 6 weeks. I just want to make absolutely sure everything is done properly. I take my PCT VERY seriously. I have thought of Clomid before but have never used it. Never even thought i had too...
Anyone else agree with what I do for my PCT??
My PCT preperation and PCT is a sticky at the top of this forum. Have a look.
Tormifene and Clomid seem to be the best SERMs for HPTA recovery in my opinoin. HCG/AI's used when "on", SERMs/Supps for PCT.
Post Cycle Extraordinaire~GOT PCT?
I agree...
But hCG and AI's definatly dont hurt ones PCT.
Anabolic Member
Yes i agree with this totally, iv'e seen many posts where people recommend an AI in PCT, there is no point, the only exception to this is the steroidal AI, aromasin, an suicidal AI will have no effect, so why waste your money.
Almost forgot, yes you can run a nova only PCT after that cycle, and TBH if you ran it at 40/40/20/20/20, who knows whether it would have taken any longer to get your natural test levels back any quicker than if you'd ran clomid as well. I certainly don't.
Last edited by LATS60; 10-22-2008 at 06:21 PM.
New Member
Hey Swifto what do you think about my situation. My cycle was this..
Weeks 1-9 500mg Sus and 200mgs of Test Cyp
Weeks 10-13 500mgs test enth
Week 14 250mg test enth
Week 15 125mg test enth
No AI was used during cycle but had on hand just in case. I don't seem to be gyno prone but I have Nolva and LiquiAromasin. Do you think I should take the aromasin as well during pct or order some clomid and just run nolva and clomid. I've read mixed reviews on taking ai's post cycle so that my concern. What is your experience? Will the Aromasin help my libido and raise my test? Any help would be appreciated! thanks bro!
Banned- Scammer!
I dont quite know why you have tapered your Test, unless its worked for you in the past?
Even though you have tapered your testosterone dosage, you still may have elevated levels of estrogen present during PCT, which you really dont want.
The Nolva alone may be ok, but I'd get some Clomid too and use it at 25-50mg/ED for 4-6 weeks with Nolva and Aromasin at 25mg/EOD.
New Member
Thanks for replying bro. How has this protocol worked for you in the past and what type of cycle were you running? Did you bounce back fine? I've also read that it's almost pointless to take both clomid and nolva at the same time and to take aromasin everyday...there's too many different ways of doing this shit ha ha! Oh yeah I tapered because i read that too...at this site on how to come off!
Banned- Scammer!
There isnt any point in lowering estrogen even further than it has been during your cycle, during PCT to raise T IMHO. You run the very real risk of driving estrogen too low during this time, when it should have been kept in low/normal ranges during your cycle.
I'm echo'ing what Swale states. But I'm sure your aware of that.
Anabolic Member
I'm not honestly sure what your saying, are you agreeing that a suicidal AI is pointless in PCT or not?
Swale??? No i'm not aware, i tend to err on the clinical/scientific side, maybe i should read some swale.
In fact i'm interested i'm off to look right now.
But TBH, i have no idea what your point is, something about lowering estrogens further, sorry i'm confused.
Banned- Scammer!
AI's only work by inhibiting estrogen at the hypothalamus. If you have used an AI during your cycle and controlled estrogen from increasing, you dont need to lower it even further during PCT by continuing to use the AI.
You run the risk of driving estrogen too low, which can bring other sides (joint, immune system, sex drive etc...).
SERM's should be used during PCT, or an AI aswell if you havent already controlled estrogen.
Ok?
Swale is an Endo who occassionally posts on boards and has written articles on AS, PCT, HCG, SERM's etc...Have a search here.
I also agree. Aromasin should be the first choice AI IF you need to use one
Scammer
Swale has been around a long time..good guy.. HRT specialist.. here is his PCT protocol..
Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.
Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!
Here it is:
I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.
Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).
If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn�t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn�t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.
The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM�s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.
I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a �bridge�. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can�t �fool� the body�it is smarter than you are.
I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground�and we don�t want that, do we?).
All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
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