Mexico launches rockets across US border.

[BuffedGuy]

im confused ... first you said mex bombed us, did they ? or not? and of coarse we will crush them ... if they deserve it for bombing us lets smack them...

I have a question for you: you seem to have this simplistic understanding that if they bomb us, we bomb them. Do you realize that when you bomb "them" you are also bombing women and children who had nothing to do with bombing you?

[amcon]

and now they quit their rocket shooting shenanigans




Yes, its time to man up and head for the border!

u drive i get the gun!!! can i paint my face like jessy the body ventura preditor ? ? ? please please - if not can i at least wear the bandana thingy that sylvester had in rambo?(would it be to much to have a cooler with protein shakes cooling in the 4 wheeler?)

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

I have a question for you: you seem to have this simplistic understanding that if they bomb us, we bomb them. Do you realize that when you bomb "them" you are also bombing women and children who had nothing to do with bombing you?

Sadly, its part of war.


kill or be killed

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

u drive i get the gun!!! can i paint my face like jessy the body ventura preditor ? ? ? please please - if not can i at least wear the bandana thingy that sylvester had in rambo?(would it be to much to have a cooler with protein shakes cooling in the 4 wheeler?)

[amcon]

I have a question for you: you seem to have this simplistic understanding that if they bomb us, we bomb them. Do you realize that when you bomb "them" you are also bombing women and children who had nothing to do with bombing you?

were they thinking that when they bombed us? if so, were they were carefull not to kill kids too then... i will apply my line rule, if not then i will do my best to just kill off all the bad guys...

so let me know if they did, any kids with bombs tied to them selves or women doing the same... or even if the looked before they through rocks and killed little children... let me know, cause me and that other dude are fuling up the 4 wheeler and going after some bad guys (im getting my bandana now!!!)

[BuffedGuy]

Sadly, its part of war.


kill or be killed

It's the mentality that you two have that worries me. It's a video game: they bomb us, so we bomb them! Why? Why do you bomb them? There should be a reason, other than they did it to us. It shouldn't just be revenge.

Anyways, I believe that if the enemy resorts to oppression, a country should not resort to oppression back. Rather, one should stand firm in justice no matter what.

[BuffedGuy]

were they thinking that when they bombed us? if so, were they were carefull not to kill kids too then... i will apply my line rule, if not then i will do my best to just kill off all the bad guys...

so let me know if they did, any kids with bombs tied to them selves or women doing the same... or even if the looked before they through rocks and killed little children... let me know, cause me and that other dude are fuling up the 4 wheeler and going after some bad guys (im getting my bandana now!!!)

So what do you think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

[amcon]

[amcon]

So what do you think of Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

both were great in mma i would like them to buff up drop some bf and try wwe... how about you what did you think about pearl harbor?

[BuffedGuy]

"War has been avoided from a due sense of the miseries, and the demoralization it produces, and of the superior blessings of a state of peace and friendship with all mankind." --Thomas Jefferson, 1809

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

It's the mentality that you two have that worries me. It's a video game: they bomb us, so we bomb them! Why? Why do you bomb them? There should be a reason, other than they did it to us. It shouldn't just be revenge.

Anyways, I believe that if the enemy resorts to oppression, a country should not resort to oppression back. Rather, one should stand firm in justice no matter what.

Well, what would you do if they bombed you, killed your kids and wife, and thousands of others...."stand firm in justice"?

Its not a video game, and its not some bar fight either, where "it takes a bigger man to walk away"

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

amcon, you been drinking? lol...

[BuffedGuy]

Well, what would you do if they bombed you, killed your kids and wife, and thousands of others...."stand firm in justice"?

If someone bombed my kids and wife, I would *not* want to bomb his kids and his wife. Rather, I'd want to bring him alone to justice. So yes, I would stand firm in justice.

As for if the enemy violated the purity of arms, I would *not* allow my nation-state to do the same.

Its not a video game, and its not some bar fight either, where "it takes a bigger man to walk away"

There are almost always more intelligent options. Instead of jumping to war, we should leave it to the absolute last case scenario.

[amcon]

when the pain of avoidence over weighs the miseries and the demoralization it means time to woop ass and make a change...

i am on no ones side the jews hate (strong word, but it fits) christians so i am not on Israels side bro... just dont get the we are going to keep poking the bees nest till we get stung... listen i am not a palistine or a jew... and i dont like my darn over taxes money going over to help any one... really not being stingy but we need help here in the usa... know what i mean?

most people hate us any ways... but just know i dont like what has happen and what will happen... do you really think Israel is going to stop with gaza??? they are just praying that some one comes in to help paliatine in a military way... so the can take there land as well- and what are we (usa ) to do???? we are broke and almost ready to collapse as a country our selves...

so, turn the tv off, stop watching aljazer, and tell me were to go and find those mexicans!!!???!!! what did they do again?

[amcon]

amcon, you been drinking? lol...

dont drink... lol but i am having a little fun with this... lol

[amcon]

If someone bombed my kids and wife, I would *not* want to bomb his kids and his wife. Rather, I'd want to bring him alone to justice. So yes, I would stand firm in justice.

As for if the enemy violated the purity of arms, I would *not* allow my nation-state to do the same.



There are almost always more intelligent options. Instead of jumping to war, we should leave it to the absolute last case scenario.

um... if mexico was sending 200 rockets a day average... i guess that would put me on last case scenario

[BuffedGuy]

i am on no ones side the jews hate (strong word, but it fits) christians

Jews don't hate Christians. In fact, as is well-known, Zionists fancy Zionist Christians. Well, I'm sure *some* Jews hate Christians, but I don't think a stereotype would fit at all here, even if one were to agree to stereotype.

and i dont like my darn over taxes money going over to help any one... really not being stingy but we need help here in the usa... know what i mean?

So then based on this logic, the United States should stop giving billions of dollars per year to Israel.

most people hate us any ways...

Isn't the intelligent thing to do to ask "why?"

and what are we (usa ) to do???? we are broke and almost ready to collapse as a country our selves...

Well then, a good start would be to stop giving Israel billions of dollars per year and use that money to make universal healthcare, free education, etc.

[BuffedGuy]

um... if mexico was sending 200 rockets a day average... i guess that would put me on last case scenario

You're still talking about Mexico and not Israel/Palestine, right?

Again, intelligent people would ask "why are they doing that?" Could it be because we invaded Mexico/Palestine?

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

If someone bombed my kids and wife, I would *not* want to bomb his kids and his wife. Rather, I'd want to bring him alone to justice. So yes, I would stand firm in justice.

As for if the enemy violated the purity of arms, I would *not* allow my nation-state to do the same.



There are almost always more intelligent options. Instead of jumping to war, we should leave it to the absolute last case scenario.

Not talking about one guy, yet a whole country. How would you bring a whole country "alone to justice" without an innocent dying...

Like I stated, its part of war. Its sad I KNOW.

But with war, its kill or be killed...

lol, we are just going to have to agree to disagree

[peachfuzz]

I don't think you know what occupation means. Let me ask you: Is Gaza a sovereign nation state? Yes or no? If it lacks sovereignty, then who has sovereignty over it? Answer: Israel. Hence, it is occupied.

Exactly.

On June 14, 2007 Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas announced the dissolution of the former unity government and declared a state of emergency. He dismissed Ismail Haniya as Prime Minister and appointed Salam Fayyad as the new one, giving him the task of building a new government. Nonetheless, Ismail Haniya of the Hamas rejected the decree of Mahmoud Abbas and said his government would remain in office and would claim authority over the entire Palestinian territories.

With Hamas being in control of the Gaza Strip and Fatah in control of the West Bank, there are de facto two Palestinian governments, both considering themselves to be the legitimate Palestinian National Authority government.

Is this Israel's fault that gaza cant get its shit together? why not tell Hamas to end suicide bombings and terrorist acts and act like human beings?

As for the settlers, what were they doing there to begin with? Why on earth do we have settlers in this day and age? Hasn't the whole world been discovered already? The fact that the term "settler" is used shows us how apt the analogy is to the Native Americans vs the American settlers, and everyone knows who was in the right and who was in the wrong with that scenario.

[B]playing on words does not constitute a valid argument. please lets not use someones choice of words as a tool for furthering our agenda. and as to the settlers. it was only AFTER israel pulled out of gaza completely leaving the area soley to the palestenians to administer did rockets begin to reign down on israel.B]

Ummm...The Red Cross and the United Nation relief agency lashed out at Israel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTUudRzY_aY

This coming from the Red Cross which historically avoids making such statements.

So I don't really know what fantasy world you are living in.

they are angry because Israel will not let then go into an area that they are targetting? yes it is sad that civilians are not getting aid, but this is war israel cannot allow time for hamas to regroup, sorry. not gonna happen. this is exactly what hamas wants and why they are using women and children as shields.

this was posted directly underneath the video: our missles are intended only for the terrorists but they use civilienze as a protective shield and we cant not attack anymore because of this! its their life or our life! imagine this: a hamas "soldier" is being sperd one day because he hides like a rat with his big family. next day an israely kid dies from a missle he shot!!

Hamas is explicit about desiring Israeli counterattacks, because while Hamas aims to kill Israeli civilians, they know Israel tries very hard not to kill Palestinian civilians. But every Palestinian death at the hands of Israel is seen as a propaganda victory for Hamas - which is why they place their munitions and terrorists in mosques, hospitals and homes crowded with children.

Hamas representative Fathi Hamad stated it explicitly: "For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire life."

It's impossible for Israel to hit back at Hamas without harming and killing innocent civilians. As Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu has pointed out, by aiming at Israeli civilians and using Palestinian civilians as human shields, Hamas is committing a double war crime.

But you will wait in vain for an international outcry.


So let me get this straight. Israel bombs Gaza, and Hamas is responsible for that? As the former Captain of the Israeli air force said: This is exactly what Hamas says when it bombs Israel, namely that Israel is responsible for that. I posted the clip in the news section.




The irony of this is that Israel exists, whereas Palestine does not exist. The UN resolution that created Israel also created Palestine. Where is it, sir?

Palestine does not exist? Google It.

And I already dealt with this issue: the bias is clear, since the Likud party refuses to recognize the right of Palestine to exist. Yet, of course the hypocrisy of the Zionists makes them condemn Hamas for what they themselves do, a pattern we see again and again.

actually it is Hamas with irans backing that does not recognize Israels right to exist.



The international community considers Israel a pariah state right now. Other than the United States.



This is like saying that the Jews exploited the Holocaust for public relations purposes.



Again, you are just bumbling around. Like I told you, Hamas fired zero rockets during the ceasefire. Israel broke the ceasefire by bombing Hamas first. So the claim that the invasion was to stop rockets is false. It's simple logic. Sorry, but this is a message forum, not the media where you can shut us up.

so let me get this straight...after the cease fire rockets were still fired into israel (hamas related or not) israel disregarded this, increased aid to gaza and tried to negotiate the release of Gilad Shalit, an israeli soldier taken hostage by hamas. after discovering tunnels dug by Hamas to abduct more israeli soldiers, Israel acted and killed seven terrorist in gaza just inside the border and you are gonna blame Israel for breaking the cease fire?

"Truth is on the side of the oppressed." --Malcolm X

Buffed Guy I have believed alot of what you have said as if you had some superior knowledge that i didnt. but after realizing that the only contributions you make to a STEROID seem to have a political/religious agenda behind them I began to do a little homework on my own as clearly you are more educated on the middle east then I am. It is clear that you take your opinions and portray them as facts. now i dont have the time to sit here and go back and forth so this is all i will respond to.

and may i point out you come on a little strong with your defensive responses when i clearly said i didnt have an opinion one way or another.

[amcon]

ok so i am going to call the prez right now and tell him i want my money to go to global warming, that is i would like it warmer... in stead of going to Israel

DUDE I DONT MAKE THAT CHOICE!!!!!! NO BODY WHO IS NOT IN THE US GOV DOES... THAT ALL HAPPENS BEHIND OUR BACKS!!! I DONT NOR DOES ANY ONE ELSE WANT THEIR TAXES TO GO TO NOTHING THAT BENIFITS US!!!! PROBLEM IS THE POLITICIANS ARE ALL CROOKED OR HAVE SOME AGENDA

ask why???? we know why... the problem is not why it is what the heck would u like us to do about it??? vote for change???? vote for who???

damn it yes!!! lets stop give any money to any one else - no more money leaving the usa lets act like canada and just play sports on ice(its so freaking cold here even florida could) and we will just ignore every one else - i hope that is what change means - in reguards to the new prez

[amcon]

You're still talking about Mexico and not Israel/Palestine, right?

Again, intelligent people would ask "why are they doing that?" Could it be because we invaded Mexico/Palestine?

did we invade mexico and palestine at the same time? cause the 4 wheeler is not geared up to go that far...

[amcon]

5 min and i am going night night... buffed guy you are a little one sided on all of this - and i can apricate your human side... just be of the type that can take a step back and ask the exact same questions and apply them to the other side look back at you...

[peachfuzz]

HAHAHAHAAH i hadnt read anything after post #24 because my response took me so darn long but this thread turned out to be freakin hilarious! hahahaah

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

HAHAHAHAAH i hadnt read anything after post #24 because my response took me so darn long but this thread turned out to be freakin hilarious! hahahaah

lol, that BuffedGuy I tell ya, he is a character

[amcon]

all in a good night of being a aar sight... he he he it is a aar sight isnt it ?? or did i log on to the wrong one again???? darn it let me go check

[peachfuzz]

lol, that BuffedGuy I tell ya, he is a character

I know I know. You ans Mcon are doing nothing but trying to have an intellectual conversation and here he is thinking its all fun and games!

[amcon]

peachfuz - this 4 wheeler is killing my ass, and all we have found out is that they arnt throwing rockets they are throwing tocos (they are good tooo ummm) but, my question is im getting tired should we make camp here or just call it a night and go home? what do you think... and btw if we are staying here at the border did you bring a tent? and one more thing make sure dsm is not around he scares me, i dont want him in the tent pulling any funny stuff... (im too funny)

[peachfuzz]

peachfuz - this 4 wheeler is killing my ass and all we have found out is they arnt throwing rockest they are throwing tocos(they are good tooo ummm) but, my question is im getting tired should we make camp here or just call it a night and go home? what do you think... and btw if we are staying here at the border did you bring a tent? and one more thing make sure dsm is not around he scares me, i dont want him in the tent pull any funny stuff... (im too funny)

sit on the seat and not the end of the gun and it wont hurt so much

i say we cross the border, grab some cervasas, load up on some gear and then call it a night.

[amcon]

sweet!!! and big were not fishing just stating the facts... great i think tonight i acutally might just have a cold one... (did any one bring sticks for smore's?) maybe we can get some clomid and bring some back ????

night!

[BuffedGuy]

On June 14, 2007 Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas announced the dissolution of the former unity government and declared a state of emergency. He dismissed Ismail Haniya as Prime Minister and appointed Salam Fayyad as the new one, giving him the task of building a new government. Nonetheless, Ismail Haniya of the Hamas rejected the decree of Mahmoud Abbas and said his government would remain in office and would claim authority over the entire Palestinian territories.

With Hamas being in control of the Gaza Strip and Fatah in control of the West Bank, there are de facto two Palestinian governments, both considering themselves to be the legitimate Palestinian National Authority government.

Is this Israel's fault that gaza cant get its shit together?

I don't see the relevance of the rivalry of Hamas and PLO to this discussion, so I have nothing to respond to. It is well-known that the two groups hate each other. What is your point?

why not tell Hamas to end suicide bombings and terrorist acts and act like human beings?

Actually, that is exactly what happened. Israel and Hamas signed a ceasefire. Hamas lived up to its end of the bargain and ceased all terrorist acts. Israel violated the ceasefire. I don't know how much clearer I can get.

playing on words does not constitute a valid argument. please lets not use someones choice of words as a tool for furthering our agenda. and as to the settlers.

It's not playing with words at all. Rather, the word describes exactly what they are. I've actually never heard of settlers in this day and age. It really takes us back to the good old colonial era, doesn't it?

it was only AFTER israel pulled out of gaza completely leaving the area soley to the palestenians to administer did rockets begin to reign down on israel.

Israel colonized Gaza from 1967-2005. Didn't you just say earlier that Israel occupied Gaza *because* of rockets? But now you are saying that the rocket attacks only happened *after* the occupation ended. So then why did Israel occupy Gaza for 35+ years? Uh oh, looks like the web of lies is collapsing.

they are angry because Israel will not let then go into an area that they are targetting?

So earlier you used the Red Cross as a proof for the benevolence of Israel. Now when I show you that the Red Cross lashed out at Israel, suddenly there is another excuse? The Red Cross is known for its neutrality, and they have condemned Israel. So I think the matter is clear.

why they are using women and children as shields.

Israel routinely bombs the houses of Hamas members. In one incident, they bombed a Hamas member's house, and in that house lived his four wives, and 6 children. All in all, fifteen civilians were killed because they wanted to kill that one Hamas member. Now do you equate living in a house as "using women and children as shields?"

If a Hamas member bombed the Israeli military leader's house, and killed his four kids in the process, then don't you think you'd be up in arms about what those "sons of b****es" did?

So why is it ok for Israel to bomb and kill civilians and not Hamas?

You say that it is ok to target Hamas leaders...ok, every single Israeli male is bound to join the IDF, which originated from a terrorist organization, and continues to kill women and children to this day. So if it's ok to target the house of Hamas members, then is it ok for Hamas to target the houses of every single male living in Israel, since after all, they are all bound to serve in the IDF?

Your description of "using human shields" is the exact same as Usama bin Ladin and the other Muslim extremists, whom I debate all the time. They give the same loose definitions of "human shields" as you do. Suddenly, almost any human becomes a shield, by your definitions. It a truism that extremists of all religions and peoples have similar ideologies. Talking to you is just like debating with Muslim extremists...I see you using all the same arguments they use, and to refute you, I simply use the same arguments I use to refute them.

imagine this: a hamas "soldier" is being sperd one day because he hides like a rat with his big family. next day an israely kid dies from a missle he shot!!

See what I said above: IDF soldiers (all Israeli males must serve) hide like "rats" with their families. Sorry to inform you of this, but generally most human beings live with their families. There is nothing deceitful about that. It's not hiding. It's called living. Just like you live with your family, and I live with mine, and George Bush lives with his, and the Israeli prime minister lives with his. Everyone lives with their family, so by this definition, all of them are ok to target. Wonderful definition of "human shields"--exact same as Al-Qaeda. Bravo.

Hamas is explicit about desiring Israeli counterattacks,

Huh? Then why did they sign a ceasefire and abide by it? You really just make up stuff.

because while Hamas aims to kill Israeli civilians, they know Israel tries very hard not to kill Palestinian civilians.

You lie a lot. In fact, the Hamas leader specifically said:

"The Hamas movement is prepared to stop terror against Israeli civilians if Israel stops killing Palestinian civilians ... We have told (Palestinian Authority Prime Minister) Abu Mazen in our meetings that there is an opportunity to stop targeting Israeli civilians if the Israelis stop assassinations and raids and stop brutalizing Palestinian civilians." (Ha'reetz; May 25th, 2003)

So contrary to what you say, Hamas does not "know" that Israel tries hard to avoid civilians. Rather, what Hamas thinks is what most other people know: Israel has no regard for civilians.

But every Palestinian death at the hands of Israel is seen as a propaganda victory for Hamas -

Again, this is as offensive as saying "the Jews in concentration camps loved to see Jews gassed, so that they can use it as propaganda against Nazi Germany."

which is why they place their munitions and terrorists in mosques, hospitals and homes crowded with children.

This is a typical tactic of people who have no regard for human life: any building they bomb, they claim "oh there were weapons stashed there." Maybe there were weapons stashed in the World Trade Center, which is why Bin Ladin took it out. So tell me: Israel knowingly bombed a UN school for children, as well as a clearly marked UN convoy. Why did it do that?

Hamas representative Fathi Hamad stated it explicitly: "For the Palestinian people death became an industry, at which women excel and so do all people on this land: the elderly excel, the jihad fighters excel, and the children excel. Accordingly [Palestinians] created a human shield of women, children, the elderly and the jihad fighters against the Zionist bombing machine, as if they were saying to the Zionist enemy: We desire death as you desire life."

And I've already quoted even worse quotes from the Israelis. But because you lack balance, you are unable to see that. We have quotes from Ariel Sharon--the former prime minister--where he says that he will kill every single Palestinian child ever born.

It's impossible for Israel to hit back at Hamas without harming and killing innocent civilians. As Likud leader Benjamin Netanyahu has pointed out, by aiming at Israeli civilians and using Palestinian civilians as human shields, Hamas is committing a double war crime.

Absurd. And again, the same logic can be said for Hamas: it is impossible for Hamas to target IDF soldiers (all Israeli men) because they "hide" in their homes. See my argument above.

But you will wait in vain for an international outcry.

And you will create one.

Palestine does not exist? Google It.

There is no sovereign state of Palestine.

actually it is Hamas with irans backing that does not recognize Israels right to exist.

You really have no logical abilities. Yes, I know that Hamas doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist. I just stated that. Why on earth are you restating that with the word "actually"? I just told you that this is countered by the fact that the Likud party (whom you just quoted as a proof) rejects the right of a Palestinian state to exist. So I'll try this again, since you lack comprehension skills: why are you a hypocrite and condemn Hamas but not Likud for the same act? What is up with this bigotry and double-standard? I know that Israel is an apartheid state, but we don't live there; we have the same rules for everyone.

so let me get this straight...after the cease fire rockets were still fired into israel (hamas related or not) israel disregarded this,

Let me break this down for you: Israel invaded Gaza, stating that the reason they did this was because Hamas broke the ceasefire and launched rockets. You yourself said this in this very thread. Yet, Israel was proven to have lied about this, and in reality Israel was the one that broke the ceasefire.

after discovering tunnels dug by Hamas to abduct more israeli soldiers, Israel acted and killed seven terrorist in gaza just inside the border and you are gonna blame Israel for breaking the cease fire?

See how much of a liar you are, just like the Israelis? You claimed in this very thread that the reason Israel attacked was because of Hamas rockets. This was stated by the Israelis themselves. But now--when the international community calls Israel out on this--suddenly they change their story. Do you know what this is called? It's called lying. The reason for invading was invented afterward retrospectively, evidenced by the fact that the reason given first was Hamas rockets. As for Hamas planning on kidnapping Israelis, there is no proof for this at all. Rather, it makes zero logical sense, because Hamas lived up to the ceasefire by not launching rockets. In other words, they wanted the ceasefire, otherwise logically they would have launched rockets. If they kidnapped Israelis, then that would've broken the ceasefire, so if they had wanted to do that, they could just have launched rockets to begin with.

Again, it's just an invented excuse, just like America had to invent excuses to invade Iraq. All occupiers are the same.

[BuffedGuy]

and may i point out you come on a little strong with your defensive responses when i clearly said i didnt have an opinion one way or another.

This is like when people say "I don't mean to be racist, but..."

Whatever comes out of their mouth after this disclaimer is *always* racist. Perhaps I should preface every single one of my posts with "I don't have a opinion one way or the other, but..."

[BuffedGuy]

ok so i am going to call the prez right now and tell him i want my money to go to global warming, that is i would like it warmer... in stead of going to Israel

DUDE I DONT MAKE THAT CHOICE!!!!!! NO BODY WHO IS NOT IN THE US GOV DOES... THAT ALL HAPPENS BEHIND OUR BACKS!!! I DONT NOR DOES ANY ONE ELSE WANT THEIR TAXES TO GO TO NOTHING THAT BENIFITS US!!!! PROBLEM IS THE POLITICIANS ARE ALL CROOKED OR HAVE SOME AGENDA

ask why???? we know why... the problem is not why it is what the heck would u like us to do about it??? vote for change???? vote for who???

damn it yes!!! lets stop give any money to any one else - no more money leaving the usa lets act like canada and just play sports on ice(its so freaking cold here even florida could) and we will just ignore every one else - i hope that is what change means - in reguards to the new prez

I will give you the advice of Prophet Muhammad [s]: If you see a wrong, try to change it with your own hands. If you cannot change it with your own hands, then try to change it with your words. If you cannot change it with your words, then oppose it in your heart.

[gst528i]

HERE IS THE DEAL.
This is an endless circle. Both the isrealis and the people of gaza are wrong and right at the same time. If that makes any sense i don;t know.
What i mean is, i believe that israelis have a right to call their home. I also think that while the Palestinians had their land given away which is wrong i believe they should also sympathize with the people who were almost wiped of the face of the earth.
But at the same time isrealis should treat the people that already lived there with respect and have some kind of compensation. Maybe economic help and not take any more land.
The arabs should welcome them since the muslim culture is suppose to be one that is of peace and equality regardless of color ( thanks to buffedguy).

Just my opnion course this will never happen coz humans are HELL BENT ON DESTROYING EACH OTHER AND everything. we are A FKUCING VIRUS.

[Reed]

The more and more I think of it the more I realize that the ISSUES in the Middle East will probably destroy Earth.

[BuffedGuy]

5 min and i am going night night... buffed guy you are a little one sided on all of this - and i can apricate your human side... just be of the type that can take a step back and ask the exact same questions and apply them to the other side look back at you...

I don't think I'm one-sided or biased at all. In fact, I *do* ask the exact same questions and apply them back to the other side, which is the reason I spend a good portion of my time refuting Muslim extremists.

I believe in being just and speaking the truth, as my religion commands. That is what I am doing. Everyone keeps on assuming "well there must be an opposite side to the story"...no, there is not, just like there was no justification for what the Nazis did to the Jews, or what the British did to India, or what the white South Africans did to the blacks, etc.

Speaking about South Africa and such, Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu have publicly condemned Israel as an apartheid state.

Nelson Mandela said:

"The UN took a strong stand against apartheid; and over the yeras, and international consensus was build, which helped to bring an end to theis iniquitous sysstems. But we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians." Pretoria, December 4, 1997

Desmond Tutu said the same:

South African Archbishop Desmond Tutu has accused Israel of practising apartheid in its policies towards the Palestinians.

source: BBC, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1957644.stm

President Carter condemned Israeli apartheid and also said:

"Israel will never find peace until it is willing to withdraw from its
neighbor's land and to permit the Palestinians to exercise their basic human
and political rights," he said.

Any human being who studies the situation with a clear mind and with neutrality will arrive to the inevitable conclusion: the occupier is *always* necessarily wrong.

I have learned to be just even to my enemies: if Israel has a greatness, then I mention it. For example, I always make sure to remind Muslim extremists that there are tons of Israeli dissenters and protesters. When people criticize America's foreign policy, I also don't forget to mention America's greatnesses. We need to get beyond partisanship. We need to get beyond the "my country right or wrong" mentality. If our group does something wrong, we should be the first to condemn it. Which is why I am the forefront of condemning Al-Qaeda, Muslim extremists, etc. When Hamas targets women and children, I clearly say that this is wrong and to be strongly criticized. This is all about being just and balanced, for God created us to be a balanced nation and enjoined upon us justice even towards our enemies.

[BuffedGuy]

HERE IS THE DEAL.
This is an endless circle. Both the isrealis and the people of gaza are wrong and right at the same time. If that makes any sense i don;t know.
What i mean is, i believe that israelis have a right to call their home. I also think that while the Palestinians had their land given away which is wrong i believe they should also sympathize with the people who were almost wiped of the face of the earth.
But at the same time isrealis should treat the people that already lived there with respect and have some kind of compensation. Maybe economic help and not take any more land.
The arabs should welcome them since the muslim culture is suppose to be one that is of peace and equality regardless of color ( thanks to buffedguy).

Just my opnion course this will never happen coz humans are HELL BENT ON DESTROYING EACH OTHER AND everything. we are A FKUCING VIRUS.

My dear colleague, you are not understanding the issue: even Hamas has agreed to ceasefire for over a 100+ years. Yes, we Muslims (including Hamas and all other Muslims) believe that the land is ours and stolen, but the Muslims have agreed to conceding *half* of the land to Israel. But it is Israel that is not even willing to go back to the 1947 borders, or even the 1967 ones! It is *all* one-sided.

All this hullabaloo of Hamas not recognizing Israel is just sensationalism. They don't recognize Israel because of a principle, which is that the land was stolen and therefore the state is usurped land. But they are willing to allow Israel to exist for over 100+ years. They believe--as I do--that eventually Prophet Jesus [as] will return and liberate the land, so *that* is why they cannot recognize Israel, because it would call into question Prophet Jesus's right to liberate that land. Just like the Free French would never concede defeat, so that when the Allies landed in Paris, they would still have a right to the land.

Meanwhile, Israel has not allowed a Palestinian state, and will agree neither to the 1947 or 1967 borders. It is simple:

Let me give you an analogy: a man breaks into your home and takes it over. Now, technically it is YOUR home rightfully. But you know that he is too strong to take over, so you finally agree to split YOUR house into two. You will share YOUR house with him half-and-half. So even though he has NO right to your house, you still concede half of it. This is what the Palestinians are doing: they are saying--including Hamas--yes, you have stolen ALL our land, but we are willing to split it 50-50.

But Israel is now saying "NO!" You can't even have half of it. And today, the Palestinians have zero percent of the land. So it is as if the man broke into your home, took it all over, and then you guys agreed on splitting it 50-50, but he broke his word and took over the other 50% too.

This is a very logical sequence of events. It is a myth to think that the situation is too complex to understand. The oppressor always wants people to think that, so that no blame can be assigned. The OCCUPIER is always necessarily wrong.

[BuffedGuy]

humans are HELL BENT ON DESTROYING EACH OTHER AND everything. we are A FKUCING VIRUS.

People need to understand this: Hamas has agreed to sign a 100+ year ceasefire. They are NOT hellbent on destroying Israel. Yes, they have a bunch of statements in which they say similar wording, but they said this BECAUSE Israel was not recognizing a Palestinian state. If Israel did, Hamas would agree to this ceasefire. It is not about endlessly killing each other: it is about securing life, liberty, and happiness.

[BuffedGuy]

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[Reed]

It is quite crazy that sets of bed time stories, symbols, beliefs, and practices (religion) that have no solid foundation in scientific fact drive everyone insane and cause so much death, pain, ill will toward one another, and this thread continues to show us it is true. Christian, Jews, Muslims, etc.

People are set in there ways that they will kill themselves and others in order to prove their belief in some book written loooong ago. And how we relate to God as human-like bewilders me. All our tiny little brains can't think of a supreme being any other way than like ourselves. Maybe one day we will all come to our senses and realize that all the stuff in the different books is WRONG as they were written in a time before modern science was available. And after generations and generations of parents and superiors pounding it into our head we believed things that are no different than believing a story like Jack in the Bean Stalk. And look where it as took us. Our beliefs in religion have destroyed, wasted, and killed countless lives in just a short period of human existence on Earth. And for what b/c some man in a fancy robe with head gear tells you this is fact and if don't do it you will burn in a fire of pain for all eternity??? One of the definitions of insanity is to continually repeat actions with the same consequences. Well it has happened and continues to happen for 1,000 of years all b/c of these bed time stories, symbols, beliefs, and practices. And just when we thought we were the most intelligent animals on the planet???

Maybe its time we all realize that religion isn't working and find a new way. No that couldn't happen, people would have a mental break down and would have to put their egos aside and actually realize where they were wrong.