Hamas is at it again

[amcon]

Oh brother.. so now the Palis have the "right"
to fire rockets also.

so i will just change one word and the other side of the coin is easily seen....

[/QUOTE]There is nothing we can say that will change their minds. Whatever Israel does is justified somehow. [/QUOTE]

there is nothing we can say that will change their minds. whatever PALESTINE does is justified somehow.

every story has a flip side... we see it with hamas firing rockets and expensive missles in to israel during a peace fire after loosing 1300 people...

man where is the wisdom in that????

[BuffedGuy]

My point being that if they were allowed to fight it out, the loser will have no choice but to accept it...because the loser will be dead.

That to me seems better than bitching about everything. It's simple.

When Jews remind us of the Holocaust, do you say that this is "b***ing"?

In any case, the Palestinian people are not just "b***ing"; they are ready to fight for their freedom to the death, Braveheart style. I just think this "might is right" philosophy died hundreds of years ago, along with other arcane ideas such as the divine right of kings, white man's burden, little brown brothers, perpetual warfare, manifest destiny, etc.

[Panzerfaust]

Oh brother.. so now the Palis have the "right"
to fire rockets also.

They certainly don't have anything better to do than starve, i'm sure you wouldn't mind being forced into a concentration camp would you?

Do some reading for ****'s sake....the Palestinians kinda have a right to fight. I certainly cannot blame them..but of course America is on the side of Israel so they means the Palestinians are the evil ones.

You know, firing them homemade rockets while Israel has state of the art military equipments thanks to the good 'ol American taxpayer. YeeeHah!

[jimmyinkedup]

When Jews remind us of the Holocaust, do you say that this is "b***ing"?

In any case, the Palestinian people are not just "b***ing"; they are ready to fight for their freedom to the death, Braveheart style. I just think this "might is right" philosophy died hundreds of years ago, along with other arcane ideas such as the divine right of kings, white man's burden, little brown brothers, perpetual warfare, manifest destiny, etc.

the philosophy may have died ...but the reality is very much alive - unfortunately in this case and most like it. You are citing out individual rights examples- when it comes to international disputes - might usually wins out - right or wrong...

[Nooomoto]

When Jews remind us of the Holocaust, do you say that this is "b***ing"?

In any case, the Palestinian people are not just "b***ing"; they are ready to fight for their freedom to the death, Braveheart style. I just think this "might is right" philosophy died hundreds of years ago, along with other arcane ideas such as the divine right of kings, white man's burden, little brown brothers, perpetual warfare, manifest destiny, etc.

When I referred to bitching, I was talking about you. Not the Palestinians who have the testicular fortitude to do something more than post on a juicer forum about whats right and wrong. I can always respect a soldier who chooses to fight for what he believes in, on whatever side. Whining about an issue never gets anyone anywhere.

And yes, I do consider the Jews bringing up the Holocaust as "bitching."

If you're so concerned dude...why don't you go fight along side the Bravehearted Palestinians? What change do you hope to effect by posting here?

They are killing Zionist pigs in defense of the land they believe to be their own...why aren't you?

[amcon]

They targeted schools and hospitals. You KNOW they targeted these areas and they didn't give a damn who died to get to their intended target. I can produce sources if you would like, SHOWING what was hit, and how many people were killed if you like? If it wasn't for a UN building being hit, who knows how much longer they would have go on for.

The sad part of this is, Hamas is not going to stop. And what is going to happen, is soon Gaza will cease to exist.

hamas wont stop cause they are terriorists!!!! praying on weak people in a huge time of need!!! think man - if the person next door hid behind their children and wifes and pointed rockets at you what would you do??? sit an wave at them???? no freaking way you would have to fight back - hamas is in a peace fire now with israel - the first israel child or wife that is killed the palestines are going to be attacked again by israel and israel will go to the un and say "we wanted a peace fire. the attacked us frist. what should we do ???" then israel is going to have permission to pumble gaza!!!!

and dont play the card that hamas doesnt hide in schools and hosptials... they do and even brag about it!!!

[BuffedGuy]

so i will just change one word and the other side of the coin is easily seen....

There is nothing we can say that will change their minds. Whatever Israel does is justified somehow.

there is nothing we can say that will change their minds. whatever PALESTINE does is justified somehow.

every story has a flip side... we see it with hamas firing rockets and expensive missles in to israel during a peace fire after loosing 1300 people...

man where is the wisdom in that????

Absolute nonsense. I have been highly consistent in condemning the wrong actions of Hamas (and even intensely debating with those who justify them), whereas you and others have yet to lay blame at the feet of Israel.

As for you saying "expensive missiles", let's not be silly now: they are the cheapest possible rockets that any army in the world uses....they are Chinatown style rockets. You keep repeating that statement, but like always, you fail miserably when it comes to producing proof. I quoted for you proof from a pro-Israeli website that the MOST expensive missiles Hamas produces cost $600, meaning their average missile is much less than that (about $400).

I also showed you that they only fire on average four missiles per day (and cited you the Israeli ministry's own website as a proof!), meaning that they spend less than $2,000 per day on missiles (high estimate). The population of Gaza is about 500,000. That means that instead of firing rockets, they could feed every Palestinian with a grand total of 0.4 cents per day. That is less than one cent. Less than half of a cent! So your entire theory is patently false and rejected. Yet you will continue to repeat it again and again and again. Why? Why do you remain stubborn upon falsehood?

[amcon]

Prehaps Buffed is one sided on the basis of his Faith.

I am not religious, I am a scientist first. But I agree with Buff. Hamas needs to go, that much is simple...but why cant you see that the Israeli attack was exactly the same as Hamas only on a much bigger scale? I have a friend that is Palestinian, and she is currently in the UAE, and I think it's terrible that one day her home could cease to exist. Why can't you see that Israel are doing to the Palestinians what Germany was doing to Jewish people 60 years ago?

i agree... 100 % that hamas needs to go, so does israel - if the palestinians gave up hamas the conflict would end....

[amcon]

buff do you think Israel would stop if hamas stopped or do you think they will continue to fight?

prone we have that answer - right now israel is in wait to launch a new attack on palestine (imo) they are going to just wait till they have the approval of the un and other larger powers that will remove hamas... hamas broke the cease fire and israel still hasnt retaliated

...but what if israel broke it then what would happen

[amcon]

I meant that they started firing rockets now again
and some members here are justifying that.

nightwolf - i believe you are saying that hamas started firing rockets and missiles - and some people are saying that is ok that hamas broke the cease fire... correct?

[amcon]

My point being that if they were allowed to fight it out, the loser will have no choice but to accept it...because the loser will be dead.

That to me seems better than bitching about everything. It's simple.

nooomoto dont feel attacked we are debating this out ... however i do believe you original post sum it up (right or wrong that would solve it) but, we are trying to sway each others view based on logic. and none of this is logical - it goes well beyond that. imo

[Dinosaur]

Israel wants the land, Hamas wants the land...simple as that. Let them fight it out and the winner gets it.

Someone will lose, eventually.

it doesn't work like that, israel needs to understand that its no longer the powerful contry in the middle east who can call shots. eventhough, they have nuclear power and the most advanced weapons in the world its not ganna get no where. it needs to stop making collective punishment and get rid of its extremist poloticians in the government. otherwise, the problem will just keep escalting until it will be expending to other countries in the sorounding area which will lead to unpleasent issues which will damage the peace in the region.

after israel will make the chages mentioned wbove than hamas will than have no choice except to merge in the govenment arena and be legitimate party.

[BuffedGuy]

hamas broke the cease fire and israel still hasnt retaliated

I know you like to live in an Orwellian world, but here in the normal human world (not Bizzaro world) a ceasefire is declared when *both* sides agree to it. Kind of like what happened with the ceasefire that was agreed to last year, which Israel subsequently broke. What Israel just did right now by killing 1,300 Gazans and then declaring a "unilateral ceasefire" (what in the heck is that!?) is like Russia invading America, conquering all of New York, and then saying "unilateral ceasefire" real fast! How come you so boldly say that Palestinians "broke the ceasefire" when they didn't sign any ceasefire to begin with, and meanwhile you refuse to admit that Israel broke the ceasefire that Israel *had* signed last year?! Why the double-standard? You're still unbiased though, right?

[BuffedGuy]

nightwolf - i believe you are saying that hamas started firing rockets and missiles - and some people are saying that is ok that hamas broke the cease fire... correct?

Underlined part is ridiculous! Please go read Animal Farm.

[BuffedGuy]

i agree... 100 % that hamas needs to go, so does israel - if the palestinians gave up hamas the conflict would end....

The IDF came from a Zionist terrorist organization, namely the Haganah. If the IDF would go, then the conflict would end. See how you never flip things around?

[*RAGE*]

Let me put this out there.....if Israel was to attack palestine all together with all they had the war would last about two weeks and there would be way more then 1300 people dead....let not forget how powerful israel is....that is the answer right there...they are not attacking palestine but attacking Hamas....yes it sucks for the palestinen people......but like in iraq once the air war is over you have to hit the ground and get the terroist cell out and that is what happing right now.....i do not vote for war but this is not a full war......

[BuffedGuy]

and dont play the card that hamas doesnt hide in schools and hosptials... they do and even brag about it!!!

Show me the proof that Hamas brags that they hide in schools and hospitals. Oh wait, let me guess: this will be one of those times where you say something outlandish without any proof whatsoever and refuse to back up what you say. You have ZERO credibility. You live in an imaginary world.

[Dinosaur]

i agree... 100 % that hamas needs to go, so does israel - if the palestinians gave up hamas the conflict would end....

this is just a lame excuse that the isreali government use to control more land of palastine. in fact, it is the same excuse that the bush administration uses when they invaded iraq by saying to the media that if the resistance stops than we will leave. on the other hand, he comes in his weekly radio show and say we will stay there for another 100yrs and we will build in bagdad the biggest consulat in the world.

[BuffedGuy]

Let me put this out there.....if Israel was to attack palestine all together with all they had the war would last about two weeks and there would be way more then 1300 people dead....let not forget how powerful israel is....that is the answer right there...they are not attacking palestine but attacking Hamas....yes it sucks for the palestinen people......but like in iraq once the air war is over you have to hit the ground and get the terroist cell out and that is what happing right now.....i do not vote for war but this is not a full war......

Completely absurd logic. It's like the Nazis saying "if Hitler had wanted, he could have killed ALL the Jews, but he only killed some of them and kept some of them in camps." And knowing how you guys spin apologetic defenses, you would say something like: See how compassionate Hitler was--he even spent millions of dollars making housing for Jews, spent money on their clothes, etc. Had he wanted, he could have just left them all to die, but he didn't. Oh look how magnanimous he is!

Somehow we are supposed to thank Israel for only killing 1,300 and not more than that? Give me a break.

[BuffedGuy]

this is just a lame excuse that the isreali government use to control more land of palastine. in fact, it is the same excuse that the bush administration uses when they invaded iraq by saying to the media that if the resistance stops than we will leave. on the other hand, he comes in his weekly radio show and say we will stay there for another 100yrs and we will build in bagdad the biggest consulat in the world.

We're attacking because Iraq is connected to Al-Qaeda.

Oh wait no, not that...we're attacking because they have WMDs!

Oh wait no, not that either...ok, we're attacking because [insert garbage excuse here]

[*RAGE*]

Completely absurd logic. It's like the Nazis saying "if Hitler had wanted, he could have killed ALL the Jews, but he only killed some of them and kept some of them in camps." why do you keep going to hitler this is not the same not even close....And knowing how you guys spin apologetic defenses, you would say something like: See how compassionate Hitler was--he even spent millions of dollars making housing for Jews, spent money on their clothes, etc. again buff this is not the same israel is not making soap out the pal bodysHad he wanted, he could have just left them all to die, but he didn't. Oh look how magnanimous he is!

Somehow we are supposed to thank Israel for only killing 1,300 and not more than that? Give me a break.

no dont thank them not at all but help them if you want to stop.....give them hamas.....and hitler did try and take over the world....and if he did you and i would not be here..

[Dinosaur]

We're attacking because Iraq is connected to Al-Qaeda.

Oh wait no, not that...we're attacking because they have WMDs!

Oh wait no, not that either...ok, we're attacking because [insert garbage excuse here]

yeah i hear, you know i came to find that the main problem with people is they don't know how to distinguish between right and wrong no more. so just because hamas is in the gaza strip and fighting against israel they have no right to do that and all the people in gaza should be punished all of them are hamas fighters.

[BuffedGuy]

If you're so concerned dude...why don't you go fight along side the Bravehearted Palestinians? What change do you hope to effect by posting here?

I believe that my role is to fight Jihad al-Lisan, which means The Spoken Struggle. We believe that the ink of the scholar runs thicker than the blood of a martyr. The ideological war is more important than the physical war.

It is a part of my religion to defend justice with my words (be it for or against Muslims), and it makes sense even on a purely non-religious level: the more people who are made aware of the facts, the less likely it is that our American government can get away with giving billions of dollars to Israel to continue this war on my Palestinian brothers.

They are killing Zionist pigs in defense of the land they believe to be their own...why aren't you?

Because my role is different. My weapon is the pen.

[MuscleScience]

I remember when this board was about bodybuilding and dieting and flaming newbs for doing oral only cycles... Alas those where the days.

[*RAGE*]

We're attacking because Iraq is connected to Al-Qaeda.(this is not true???????

Oh wait no, not that...we're attacking because they have WMDs! we have went through this before you dont know anything about it and how easy would it have been to get them out of the country

Oh wait no, not that either...ok, we're attacking because [insert garbage excuse here]

because you have nothing yet again...

[*RAGE*]

I believe that my role is to fight Jihad al-Lisan, which means The Spoken Struggle. We believe that the ink of the scholar runs thicker than the blood of a martyr. The ideological war is more important than the physical war.

It is a part of my religion to defend justice with my words (be it for or against Muslims), and it makes sense even on a purely non-religious level: the more people who are made aware of the facts, the less likely it is that our American government can get away with giving billions of dollars to Israel to continue this war on my Palestinian brothers.this show how much you dont know...it does not work like that...but then again its just what you write is right right?



Because my role is different. My weapon is the pen.

I will leave that alone

[*RAGE*]

I remember when this board was about bodybuilding and dieting and flaming newbs for doing oral only cycles... Alas those where the days.

that was the reason i started and will continue in this forum...50% of my post are either mma, steroid question and answer, the other is in the ar forum just a small part are in the news.....how about you buff where are yours?

[Dinosaur]

I can always respect a soldier who chooses to fight for what he believes in, on whatever side. Whining about an issue never gets anyone anywhere.

so it wont matter to you if this soldier you are proud of fights a war that has been based on falsehood, transgration and taking over other people's rights and lands.

[*RAGE*]

so it wont matter to you if this soldier you are proud of fights a war that has been based on falsehood, transgration and taking over other people's rights and lands.

charrif it is not the soldier that make the rules he is just the one that fights..it is the one that makes the policy who starts the war based on incidents.

[BuffedGuy]

We're attacking because Iraq is connected to Al-Qaeda. this is not true???????

Please stop living in an imaginary world. There was no connection at all to Al-Qaeda, until of course America invaded Iraq and *made* it into a haven for Al-Qaeda. Saddam Hussein had absolutely no connection to Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda had declared Saddam Hussein an apostate and disbeliever long time ago, and Saddam Hussein was known for being a Baathist secularist who used to shut down mosques.

But of course *you* know more on this issue because you are a soldier, and we all know how well-informed soldiers are. (As the joke goes, they learn their geography by bombing countries, since before that, they could not even point to Iraq on the map.)

Anyways, here you go:

Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military's first and only study looking into ties between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda showed no connection between the two, according to a military report released by the Pentagon.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/13/alqaeda.saddam/

But of course you know more than the Pentagon, because after all, soldiers are very well-informed people in general. [/sarcasm]

Oh wait no, not that...we're attacking because they have WMDs! we have went through this before you dont know anything about it and how easy would it have been to get them out of the country

From MSNBC:

CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.

“After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted,” wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall.

...The Iraq Survey Group believes "it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

As my brethren in 711's say: Thank you, come again.

[*RAGE*]

buff you are telling me that Israel could not take over the country in a couple of weeks if they wanted to... please.....if it even took them that long...am i saying this is right no far from it........that would be f----up........but the longer hamas hides and shoots rocket into israel the longer this will continue.......why dont you see this???
I cant say they will get their land back but at least they would be peace

[BuffedGuy]

that was the reason i started and will continue in this forum...50% of my post are either mma, steroid question and answer, the other is in the ar forum just a small part are in the news.....how about you buff where are yours?

Why do I have to justify why I am here? This is not the steroids subsection. It is the news subsection. It is about news, not juice. I have every right to be here, and if I am in violation of any of the rules, the mods can inform me of that. But so far, they are OK with it.

[Nooomoto]

so it wont matter to you if this soldier you are proud of fights a war that has been based on falsehood, transgration and taking over other people's rights and lands.

I never said I was proud of any one, I said I can "respect" a soldier who fights for what he believes in...two completely different things. I don't respect underhanded commentary and pontificating.

Everyone here is picking one side or the other...I'm asking why doesn't any one go and do something about it? If that isn't to be the case, which it clearly isn't, then let the people who are doing something sort it out.

[Dinosaur]

charrif it is not the soldier that make the rules he is just the one that fights..it is the one that makes the policy who starts the war based on incidents.

to be honest with you if i were a soldier and i was told to invade or attack a contry or a city based on false intelligence, claims or just to punish people. i will certainly with no doubt object/refuse to fight against these people. no matter where this order comes from. i have a very guilty conscience. why do you think this soldiers that comeback from iraq make suicide. cause they know they have commited wrong doing they can't leave with it.

[BuffedGuy]

buff you are telling me that Israel could not take over the country in a couple of weeks if they wanted to... please.....if it even took them that long...am i saying this is right no far from it........that would be f----up........but the longer hamas hides and shoots rocket into israel the longer this will continue.......why dont you see this???
I cant say they will get their land back but at least they would be peace

What I am telling you is that they already rule the land. Therefore you saying "they could take over the country in a couple weeks" is nonsense, because they already have the land to begin with. Right now, Israel has the best possible arrangement: "autonomy", which basically means that Palestinians must provide for their own sanitation, infrastructure, etc., whilst Israel maintains the benefits of occupation. So contrary to what you say, it is no mercy that they aren't directly ruling the land; rather, they are reaping the benefits of occupation without even servicing the people like the British would do when they colonized lands. (The British, for example, built train stations in India, kept good sanitation, etc.) It is more on the South African model, whereby Bantustans were created. In actuality however, the Bantustans were better, although that is a topic for another time.

[BuffedGuy]

to be honest with you if i were a soldier and i was told to invade or attack a contry or a city based on false intelligence, claims or just to punish people. i will certainly with no doubt object/refuse to fight against these people. no matter where this order comes from. i have a very guilty conscience. why do you think this soldiers that comeback from iraq make suicide. cause they know they have commited wrong doing they can't leave with it.

Every soul will be responsible for its own actions. Those who know they are fighting an illegal and unjust war will be guilty on the Day of Judgment, unless they repent.

[Dinosaur]

I never said I was proud of any one, I said I can "respect" a soldier who fights for what he believes in...two completely different things. I don't respect underhanded commentary and pontificating.

Everyone here is picking one side or the other...I'm asking why doesn't any one go and do something about it? If that isn't to be the case, which it clearly isn't, then let the people who are doing something sort it out.

what can we do to stop this fighting that should've been done and we weren't able to do? call my congressman and tell him to intervene?

so far, i have not seen any nation from the advanced countries who's not one-sided so it makes very hard task. that's my view of the situation.

[*RAGE*]

Please stop living in an imaginary world. i AM NOT THE ONE LIVING IN THE IMAGINARY WORLD I HAVE BEEN THERE I HAVE SEEN IT..YOU ARE THE ONE WATCHING THE NEWS AND COMING TO A AAS SITE TO TYPE ABOUT THIS.There was no connection at all to Al-Qaeda, until of course America invaded Iraq and *made* it into a haven for Al-Qaeda. Saddam Hussein had absolutely no connection to Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda had declared Saddam Hussein an apostate and disbeliever long time ago, and Saddam Hussein was known for being a Baathist secularist who used to shut down mosques.lol this show how much you dont know again al qaeda is just a name terroist is also another name.......most of the iraqi that i talked to said saddam hussein was the biggest terroist know in the middle east he has killed a lot more then the US....

But of course *you* know more on this issue because you are a soldier, and we all know how well-informed soldiers are. do you read what i write i am not a soldier i was given a lot more information then any soldier of the higher command was given.. (As the joke goes, they learn their geography by bombing countries, since before that, they could not even point to Iraq on the map.)i dont find that funny

Anyways, here you go:

Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda not linked, Pentagon says

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The U.S. military's first and only study looking into ties between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and al Qaeda showed no connection between the two, according to a military report released by the Pentagon.CNN does not have report from the military or cia!!! come on dude

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/13/alqaeda.saddam/

But of course you know more than the Pentagon, because after all, soldiers are very well-informed people in general.



From MSNBC:

CIA’s final report: No WMD found in Iraq

WASHINGTON - In his final word, the CIA’s top weapons inspector in Iraq said Monday that the hunt for weapons of mass destruction has “gone as far as feasible” and has found nothing, closing an investigation into the purported programs of Saddam Hussein that were used to justify the 2003 invasion.that was a new release....we have talked about this they can get weapons in so they can get weapons out

“After more than 18 months, the WMD investigation and debriefing of the WMD-related detainees has been exhausted,” wrote Charles Duelfer, head of the Iraq Survey Group, in an addendum to the final report he issued last fall.

...The Iraq Survey Group believes "it was unlikely that an official transfer of WMD material from Iraq to Syria took place."so that makes it true come on you no better then that...it that is the case then all the stuff cnn puts on the new about palestine is true......you are going in circles

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7634313/

As my brethren in 711's say: Thank you, come again.

i will

[BuffedGuy]

I never said I was proud of any one, I said I can "respect" a soldier who fights for what he believes in...two completely different things. I don't respect underhanded commentary and pontificating.

Everyone here is picking one side or the other...I'm asking why doesn't any one go and do something about it? If that isn't to be the case, which it clearly isn't, then let the people who are doing something sort it out.

Peace be unto you, Nooomoto.

I was too harsh on you. I apologize. Let me explain to you the benefit in us discussing this issue: it raises awareness in people, and if enough awareness is raised, then we Americans can pressure our government to stop funding Israel. If Israel loses the billions of dollars it gets from America, this will be a big blow to Israel, certainly more so than a rocket being launched at Israel. Therefore, this is how a word can be more powerful than a bomb.

Furthermore, if Americans are made aware of the situation, they can pressure their government to pressure Israel into making a fair peace with Palestinians, i.e. the two-state solution on the 1947 or 1967 borders.

Hope that helps understand why I think it is so crucial to "b****" on this issue.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[Dinosaur]

Every soul will be responsible for its own actions. Those who know they are fighting an illegal and unjust war will be guilty on the Day of Judgment, unless they repent.

i beleive they this people who do this wrong doings they get punished in this life before the hearafter.