What's your favorite brand of creatine?

[RATTLEHEAD]

here we goooo ha ha

[IM708]

here we goooo ha ha

I have no interest in childish feuds, I actually want to know the clinically shown adverse health effects of using it.

[jimmyinkedup]

I have no interest in childish feuds, I actually want to know the clinically shown adverse health effects of using it.

just found some info , by no means a study but the 3rd mention of neurtoxicity in first 5 sites ive read :

The FDA said it was the recommended alternative and put it in all sugar free products. It wasnt very long before women in particular started having negative side effects as a result of ingesting it in their usual products. Later it was discovered that due to a chemical reaction in the body, it can act as a neurotoxin that affects the brain and nervous system. It is now speculated to mimic symptoms of Alzheimers, MS, Parkinsons and a host of other neurological diseases. While it hasnt been taken off the market, there is yet another contender.

[BrokenBricks]

just found some info , by no means a study but the 3rd mention of neurtoxicity in first 5 sites ive read :

The FDA said it was the recommended alternative and put it in all sugar free products. It wasnt very long before women in particular started having negative side effects as a result of ingesting it in their usual products. Later it was discovered that due to a chemical reaction in the body, it can act as a neurotoxin that affects the brain and nervous system. It is now speculated to mimic symptoms of Alzheimers, MS, Parkinsons and a host of other neurological diseases. While it hasnt been taken off the market, there is yet another contender.

Can you post those for me?

[jimmyinkedup]

Can you post those for me?

http://bulkpywzzkotlc.blogspot.com/2...9_archive.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...t=AbstractPlus

the others are q&a from supp websites (bashing other products containing glycocyamine) and forum posts - so id say not too reliable ....
Let us know your opinion on this - sounds like from what u posted our bodies process this all the time ....not that that means much ( considering exogenous administration amounts) ...but at any rate im curious what u think....

[BrokenBricks]

Ok, Ill just be nice here. Here is the quote from the first article, which you quoted.

You can skip to the last paragraph.

"A young couple walking hand-in-hand cast a late afternoon shadow on a city street December 29, 2007. (Tim Wimborne/Reuters)Reuters - Programs teaching U.S. schoolchildren to abstain from sex have not cut teen pregnancies or sexually transmitted diseases or delayed buy bulk grape seed powder extract age at which sex begins, health groups told Congress on Wednesday.

The problem with sugar buy wholesale choline bitartrate that it doesnt contain any nutrients so when you consume too much you crowd out room for healthier foods. In fact, it is estimated that on average, Americans consume over 200 pounds of refined sugar annually. buy wholesale BCAA amino acids the other side of the coin you have buy wholesale glucosamine hcl sweeteners which are getting more negative press as adverse health effects begin to emerge.

Whats the big deal? Well, decades ago it was found that some artificial sweeteners may cause cancer and were taken out of products and off the shelves. Next, enter the next latest and buy bulk glycocyamine nutrition The FDA said it was the recommended alternative and put it in all sugar free products. It wasnt very long before women in particular started having negative side effects as a result of ingesting it in their usual products. Later it was discovered that due to a chemical reaction in the body, it can act as a neurotoxin wholesale nutritional supplements cheap shipping to canada that affects the brain and nervous system). It is now speculated to mimic symptoms of Alzheimers, MS, Parkinsons and a host of other neurological diseases. While it hasnt been taken off the market, there is yet another contender."

All of the bold underlined parts are links in the text to a website to sell those names products. They took commentary on teen sex and apparently splenda and randomly stuck ads in the text for grapeseed extract and glycocyamine and BCAAs. You misread the non sequiter links as being what the paragraphs were referring to. If you read it again you can see what I mean. It is selling GAA.

[jimmyinkedup]

Ok, Ill just be nice here. Here is the quote from the first article, which you quoted.

You can skip to the last paragraph.

"A young couple walking hand-in-hand cast a late afternoon shadow on a city street December 29, 2007. (Tim Wimborne/Reuters)Reuters - Programs teaching U.S. schoolchildren to abstain from sex have not cut teen pregnancies or sexually transmitted diseases or delayed buy bulk grape seed powder extract age at which sex begins, health groups told Congress on Wednesday.

The problem with sugar buy wholesale choline bitartrate that it doesnt contain any nutrients so when you consume too much you crowd out room for healthier foods. In fact, it is estimated that on average, Americans consume over 200 pounds of refined sugar annually. buy wholesale BCAA amino acids the other side of the coin you have buy wholesale glucosamine hcl sweeteners which are getting more negative press as adverse health effects begin to emerge.

Whats the big deal? Well, decades ago it was found that some artificial sweeteners may cause cancer and were taken out of products and off the shelves. Next, enter the next latest and buy bulk glycocyamine nutrition The FDA said it was the recommended alternative and put it in all sugar free products. It wasnt very long before women in particular started having negative side effects as a result of ingesting it in their usual products. Later it was discovered that due to a chemical reaction in the body, it can act as a neurotoxin wholesale nutritional supplements cheap shipping to canada that affects the brain and nervous system). It is now speculated to mimic symptoms of Alzheimers, MS, Parkinsons and a host of other neurological diseases. While it hasnt been taken off the market, there is yet another contender."

All of the bold underlined parts are links in the text to a website to sell those names products. They took commentary on teen sex and apparently splenda and randomly stuck ads in the text for grapeseed extract and glycocyamine and BCAAs. You misread the non sequiter links as being what the paragraphs were referring to. If you read it again you can see what I mean. It is selling GAA.

Whoa - i never said it was true - never said i believed it ...never said any such thing ...said the first three of 5 sites i looked in mentioned this. Thats all ...said they werent studies etc.... so considering the circumstances id say nice is the only course of appropriate action.
Also dont get links using the proxy im using either - that doesnt help.....

this was an interesting read (no study but intersting info) : http://www.muscleandstrength.com/sup...cocyamine.html

[BrokenBricks]

So the second link you have there is a study which relates to my other posts sentence.

Seizures. Some kids are both without the enzyme (GAMT) to convert GAA into creatine. GAA builds up to extremely high levels and the kids get seizures. Now this stuff is in all of us all the time and does not cause seizures. When it is hundreds of times normal value it does. Does letting the value double or triple matter? No.

So what is the study doing? Ill underline the salient portions.

Guanidinoacetate methyltransferase (GAMT) deficiency is an autosomal recessively inherited disorder of creatine biosynthesis. The disease occurs in early life with developmental delay or arrest and several neurological symptoms, e.g., seizures and dyskinesia. Both the deficiency of high-energy phosphates in neurons and the neurotoxic action of the accumulated metabolite guanidinoacetate (GAA) are candidate mechanisms for the pathophysiology of this disease. To examine a potential role of GAA accumulation, we analyzed the electrophysiological responses of neurons induced by GAA application in primary culture and acute murine brain slices. GAA evoked picrotoxin- and bicuculline-sensitive GABA(A) receptor-mediated chloride currents with an EC(50) of 167 microM in cortical neurons. Pathophysiologically relevant GAA concentrations hyperpolarized globus pallidus neurons and reduced their spontaneous spike frequency with an EC(50) of 15.1 microM. Furthermore, GAA acted as a partial agonist at heterologously expressed GABA(A) but not GABA(B) receptors. The interaction of GAA with neuronal GABA(A) receptors represents a candidate mechanism explaining neurological dysfunction in GAMT deficiency.

So these guys wanted to know the specific mechanism this disease I mentioned elicits neurological symptoms. The whole enzyme system is absent in these kids and of the dozens of resultant chemical abnormalities that follow they wanted to know if the high levels of GAA played any role directly. They took living neurons harvested from freshly killed rats ("murine brain slices") and doused them with GAA to see if any brain neurotransmitter receptors showed any affinity. They state when they used "pathophyisiollogically relevant concentrations", which in this case means, the concentrations seen in the children effected by this disease, there was an effect. The relevance of the effect is not clear, thousands of chemicals would create a similar result and not cause seizures. But no substance that does cause seizures directly would have shown no effect. So they can confirm that it is possible GAA is to blame, in those concentrations in rats.

What is important to understand is that this is just one example of hundreds where people are born where they cannot metabolize a substance, precursor chemicals which exist in all of us cannot be removed and build up to extreme levels. Bad things happen. What is important is does this have any relevance to normal people? Even diabetes can be seen in this way, if you cannot metabolize sugar because a receptor is desensitized to insulin glucose builds up. What is obvious is that normal daily ingestion of glucose is not a problem for non diabetics. And even diabetics need to ingest some.