Senior Member
You have such a simplistic understanding of things. Let's say that Jews were persecuted there. How does that disprove that practicing Muslims are persecuted there as well? Wow, you really have no logical thinking skills. Again, due to your ignorance, you are unable to understand nuances in the Muslim world.Originally Posted by Kratos
Senior Member
Again, horribly simplistic. Saddam Hussein was Muslim in the same way, i.e. culturally Muslim. He heavily persecuted practicing Muslims. Oh wait, I guess you'll deny that too. lol you really have no idea about anything. All your views are based on anecdotal observation and prejudice. You met some Muslims in your life, a lot of them were this way or that way, so now to you, *all* Muslims are like that.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but Muslims are not a monolithic or homogeneous group.
I feel accomplished
the two state soloution is a farse and you know it
what does it solve?
just give us a little, just give us a little (until we have the whole thing)
which state controls the temple mount under this soloution?
Because in your opinion and in the opinion of many Arabs, Israelis want the expulsion of all Arabs, hasn't made it so. You are speaking about opinions of people you've never met and not their actions.
No, I am not a bigot, I totally support your religious freedom and respect your views. I don't feel that this is a soloution that would work in practice. I know you are very smart and well read and the way you practice your religion is respectful of others. I tend to oversimplify things, at times to make a point. But, I haven't earned your name calling. How many times have you called me ignorant and told me I don't understand in this thread?
Senior Member
Yes, you are a bigot. And no, just supporting my religious freedom does not mean you are not a bigot. You are a bigot because you say things like: "All Muslims want the genocide of Jews." Imagine if I said: "All Jews are bent on world domination." Sorry, these are bigoted statements.No, I am not a bigot, I totally support your religious freedom and respect your views.
This also shows your bigotry. Right now, Israel has 100% of the land, yet you do not say anything against them. But when Palestinians demand 50% (which by the way was granted to them by the United Nations and international law), suddenly you say things like "they are just using this as a ploy to get the whole thing back." Ummm, sherlock: Israelis already have the entire thing, so why no criticism of them? Even if the Palestinians have the intention (as you so claim), they didn't actually do it. Meanwhile, the Israelis had the intention and THEY DID IT, yet no criticism from you.
So sorry, you are a bigot. You apply two different standards: one for the Judeo-Christian peoples, and one for Muslims. Alas, I'm used to this bigotry however: how common is it for Americans nowadays to cry these huge big tears for 2,000 people that died on 9/11, but not give two craps about the tens of thousands of Muslims that die from American bombs? Two different standards: American lives are precious, whereas Muslim lives are just scum.
And one more thing: it's actually not 50/50. The Israelis get the majority of the land, whereas the Palestinians would get only the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, whereas the Israelis would get all the better land including West Jerusalem.
Last edited by BuffedGuy; 03-26-2009 at 03:26 PM.
I feel accomplished
Let's not say they were persecuted for the sake of argument. They were, and the gvmt was used as an aid to do so. After 1956, the new Muslim government eliminated the Jewish Rabbinical tribunal and Jewish community councils, destroying the Jewish quarter of Tunis. After the Six-Day War in 1967, Muslims laid waste to the Great Synagogue of Tunis, leaving the only community left on the island of Djerba. Most of them were forced from their homeland to Israel.
Can you further explain this persecution of Muslims as I'm trying to understand. I'm not totally close minded, I'm interested.
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I didn't say all muslims want the genocide of jews. I said when it comes to Israel the Muslim world as a whole will accept nothing less then total Muslim control, which will end in either conversion/dispersion/or genocide. I say this because that's the ultimate fate of Jews in current Muslim nations. Do you disagree? That's fine, but I don't feel the two state soloution would satisfy the Muslim world. Sure, they would take it cause it's better than what they have now, but won't be happy until they have all of Israel.
I was under the impression we were two adults speaking, chill with the names.
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You mean they control 100% of thier country without wanting to concede their border inward? You're right I am a bigot.
How do you know how I feel about 9/11 or the Muslims who have died?
I feel accomplished
Buff, you're too smart for this resorting to personal attacks, it doesn't become you. This isn't a spelling bee.
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
to understand the muslim world as a whole... would be a task it would be like saying understand every christian or jew sect good and bad... one thing that is very well known is that obama(the liberal scum bag) "cow towed" to the muslim world and it was precieved as a huge (huge huge huge huge) sign of weakness... they even stated that oboma was doing that because of the weakness of our economy, and of our principals, of our morals!!! and i will throw this out their - these terrorists - believe that by going nucular they will bring the end to the world - thus heaven on earth...
i say this bring it on!!! then we will show them what america is all about !!!
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
when people start to "attack" off of the subject stated, that means your winning in their mind... that is when they start to fear you in to responding cause you might spell a word wrong and be critisized (sp)... but you know what? dont sweat it cause at least you have you world view right!!! and we can look at them like this
physical pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside... The pain of quiting will lasts forever!!
dont get me started with this crap... what is good for the goose is good for the gander!! if you want to play that game - you just gave israel the right to fire back...
answer softly cause i am trust me!!!
~AR-Elite-Hall of Famer~
I take offense to that, I cant spell for shit. If someone put a gun to my head and said spell nessicary correctly or you die, I would surely be dead.......
I have two post grad degrees ( or will by the end of the year) and research publications. I think it is a mental disorder or something.
I feel accomplished
We removed him for you...you're welcome.
Joking if you can't tell
Member
Ya you been to pakistan, your home country, that makes you
an expert on ALL the other muslim countrys
Obviously you are not well-read. In order to understand issues like these, you need to have both experience (which includes world travel)
as well as book knowledge. You lack the latter. You don't even deny this. You are not well-read. You are not an educated person. You can't even spell properly. Every single one of your posts has egregious spelling mistakes in it, which testifies to your education level.
Am not well read? how do you know that? because
i always have a diffrent opinon then you? it is already
well known on this board and many members have told
that you take your OPINONS as FACTS. oh ya you been
to pakistan so your a world traveler
I promise you, i have traveled and seen much more at the
age of 28 then you will for the rest of your brainwashed life.
The only thing you are learned about is islamic brainwashing,
on other subjects you are clueless, you even said you wanted
to leave the board because there was not many threads you can post in.
And about the spelling, you know very well that english
is not my first language, so lets see you speak and type
in my language? way to go, attack someones spelling
when you dont have anything else to say about the subject
in hand paki.
Ya, im sorry that i just dont belive what some schmoe says aboutObviously you are not well-read. In order to understand issues like these, you need to have both experience (which includes world travel)
as well as book knowledge. You lack the latter. You don't even deny this.
something (as you do) and that i want to GO SEE for myself with my own eyes.
Sometimes it really fells like talking to a 8 year old boyYou are completely incapable of understanding nuances. Just because a person fasts, it does not mean that they are a conservative practicing Muslim. Even many liberal Muslims--who drink and party--fast in the month of Ramadan.
with you, what is you dont understand?? they ARE muslims,
almost the WHOLE country are muslims, both the leaders
AND the citizens, can you get that thru your thick skull??
Do they want extremists in that country? no offcourse not!
What you are saying is that muslims are torturing other muslims
just for being muslims! I guess your to stupid to understand
how idiotic that sounds..
Again, why dont get up from your chair, the one you sit onAgain, the fact that you don't know of the persecution of practicing Muslims in secular Turkey--speaks to your profound ignorance. Listen, go pick up a book or two. Expand your mind.
all day and cry about muslims on a steroid and GO SEE for yourself
instead of reading a book! Im 100% you will come back and say
"Hey my islamic teacher was wrong and i was completley off!
Member
This post from buff was made to Kratos but i will reply
to it
As a muslim you should know that everything that happens is
gods will, right mr god willing? Israel has at the moment
100% of the land, that means that it is Gods will that they have it,
So.. WHO THE FVCK ARE YOU to question god??
I feel accomplished
you guys both got your jabs in now
lets try to respect each other from now on
unless you're loosing and want the thread to get deleted buff?
since the state of israel is important to you I'm guessing you'd rather speak more on the issue.
Member
yes that's what u see on the paper and that's what most of those tyrant leaders claim, but when it comes to virtue and practicing its very diffrent.
small example, my cousin smokes, drinks and party but when ramadan comes he fast. so how would you fit him in those categories according to ur judging.
I feel accomplished
but they aren't stopping him from not smoking, drinking or partying
so where is the opression?
I feel accomplished
Btw charrif thanks for providing a second muslim perspective as I'm sure buff feels a little tag teamed by now.
Member
I was holding my tongue in all my posts
and was on topic until he started with personal attacks
because he got his ass handed to him on the subject.
Member
Charriff is a good guy because even when he has
diffrent opinons, he debates in a good manner
and does not throw punches under the belt
as buff always seems to do with his replys.
Senior Member
And I am telling you that you have no right to speak for the Muslims. Yes, in your mind's eye the Muslims are blood-thirsty savages who could only want this and nothing else. But unfortunately for you, they have done polls on this matter, and the vast majority of the Muslims and Palestinians want peace with Israel. They do, however, want a fair peace, and what constitutes a fair peace, would be to go back to the 1967 borders or the 1947 ones. This is the general sentiment in the Muslim world.
You can't keep saying otherwise.
Umm, no. Historically, the Muslims were the ones who invited Jews to live in their lands. I've already established this. For HUNDREDS of years, Muslims allowed Jews in their lands, and Jews fled to Muslim lands for refuge. And great thanks do the Zionist Jews give by expelling the Muslims from Palestine. Think of how amazing this is: we are the ones who kept allowing them back, time and time again. But the minute they got control, they expelled millions of Palestinians, and denied them the Right of Return. We gave them the right of return; they did not give us this, and they continue to deny it.I say this because that's the ultimate fate of Jews in current Muslim nations. Do you disagree?
With regards to Anti-Semitism in Muslim world, it's no less than the anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiment in Israel. Do you deny this? Do you know how Arabs and Muslims are treated in Jewish Israel? Worse than dogs.
So please explain why you are trying to vilify the Muslims when a worse situation exists in the Jewish Israel?
I don't give two craps what you feel. Since when do you speak for us? Just be quiet.That's fine, but I don't feel the two state soloution would satisfy the Muslim world.
Again, stop speaking for us. I know that as a white man you think you can speak for little brown brother, but please stop.Sure, they would take it cause it's better than what they have now, but won't be happy until they have all of Israel.
Simple. You get harassed by police and arbitrarily thrown in jail.
Wow, this right here is really stupid of you to say. Do you know that even in Israel they call it "the Occupied Territories." Do you know what the word "occupied" means?
How on earth did Obama cow-tow to the Muslims? He upped the colonial war in Afghanistan and continues the colonial war in Iraq. That is called cow-towing?
Why don't you speak about how Obama grovels and cow-tows to the Israeli lobby, namely AIPAC? He had to ask one of his appointees to step down just because of AIPAC's pressure.
No, I am sorry, but that is not the belief of the terrorists. They don't want to bring an end to the world. That is sensationalism, and just inaccurate. Their belief is that America has killed Muslim civilians, so now it's time to kill American civilians. And they believe that by doing that they will tire out America and Americans. There is nothing about bringing an end to the world.they even stated that oboma was doing that because of the weakness of our economy, and of our principals, of our morals!!! and i will throw this out their - these terrorists - believe that by going nucular they will bring the end to the world - thus heaven on earth...
This type of jingo-ism and posturing is dangerous. It is what the extremists on both sides say. Rather, we should have a mutual de-escalation. We should start talking instead of fighting. We should have mutual understanding and peace.i say this bring it on!!! then we will show them what america is all about !!!
Member
I have been to tunisia and I literally know what's going on over there.
do you happen to know who abu rqiba is? he was the ex president of tunisia before the current president zeen al abideen took power.
briefly, let me tell you little bit about how this tyrants ruled, destroyed his people and striped them from their rights.
he almost banned the fasting of ramadan, cause he said that it makes people tired and therefore it slows the production of the economy. he said that the friday prayer should be shortend and divided into two groups one group will have half an hour to pray and go back to work while the second group will take place of the first one and once they are done they will go back to work. one more thing amongst many other bad things he allowed into his country is legalizing the prostitution and I could go on and on... etc
As for turkey my sister lived there and I do have a broad idea of what Iam talking about.
Senior Member
Look at NightWolf...now he's using racial slurs like "Paki." But you're not a bigot right? hahahaha
Senior Member
"You" put him in power to begin with.
Member
Kratos, I am not quite sure what mean by saying stopping him...
as well as the opression thing. could u explain plz.
Senior Member
If you ask this question, then you have no idea at all about the Islamic theology. Once again, you are completely ignorant. And by completely ignorant, I only mean about when it comes to the Middle East, Islam, and the Muslim world. That's my entire point. You speak on issues that you have no knowledge of.
As for this:
Let me try this again, since your brain does not comprehend. Try re-reading it a few times if you don't understand. They are Muslim only in the cultural sense of the word. For example, Cenk Ughyur from the Young Turks calls himself a "Muslim agnostic." In other words, culturally he is Muslim, and religiously he is agnostic. This is the same with Jews: in fact, 52% of Jews in America are agnostics or atheists. What does that mean? Do you get what that means? Yes or no?Sometimes it really fells like talking to a 8 year old boy
with you, what is you dont understand?? they ARE muslims,
almost the WHOLE country are muslims, both the leaders
AND the citizens, can you get that thru your thick skull??
Do they want extremists in that country? no offcourse not!
What you are saying is that muslims are torturing other muslims
just for being muslims! I guess your to stupid to understand
how idiotic that sounds..
So yes, the secularists do very much oppress the practicing Muslims in Turkey.
Your inability to comprehend this again points to your inferior intellect. Do you not know that in Israel there is a Jew vs Jew battle? How hard is that to understand?
Member
They are Muslim only in the cultural sense of the word. For example, Cenk Ughyur from the Young Turks calls himself a "Muslim agnostic." In other words, culturally he is Muslim, and religiously he is agnostic. This is the same with Jews: in fact, 52% of Jews in America are agnostics or atheists. What does that mean? Do you get what that means? Yes or no?
So yes, the secularists do very much oppress the practicing Muslims in Turkey.
that's what is going on nowadays with the muslim world. well described.
Senior Member
I apologize to NightWolf and Kratos for my anger. Not having a good few days and I guess I'm displacing it on to the forum. I'll try keeping myself in check.
Peace.
AR's Hot British Pimp Daddy ~HOF~
Good lord their still at it lol...
Member
Just answer the question o wise one..
Who the fvuk are you to go against gods will?
The palis are lossing the war, and that is gods will is it not?
So if you dont want to offend god, shut your pie hole.
Come on man, how stupid are you? offcourse there isLet me try this again, since your brain does not comprehend. Try re-reading it a few times if you don't understand. They are Muslim only in the cultural sense of the word. For example, Cenk Ughyur from the Young Turks calls himself a "Muslim agnostic." In other words, culturally he is Muslim, and religiously he is agnostic. This is the same with Jews: in fact, 52% of Jews in America are agnostics or atheists. What does that mean? Do you get what that means? Yes or no?
people in turkey who are only muslims on papper just as
the same with all other countries and religions, but that
does not mean that those "moderate" muslims are hunting
and torturing fanatic muslims as yourself.
For exampel: when you go to turkey they have these high towers
(dont know what they are called) with a big mic at the top
and when its time for muslim prayers someone goes up there and
prays. These towers are built EVERYWERE so that no area at all
can escape the sound that comes out (a turk explained that to us)
These prayers and high sound noise are very irritating
for turists and none belivers, yet they are FORCED to be there
but the muslim powers that rule the country, dont you think
these towers whould be the first things to go before they
start to torture muslims oh wise one? or should i say oh stupid one.
So did your pie brain understand this or not?
yes there is moderate muslims AND fanatic muslims
(such as you) in turkey, NO the fanatics are not
oppressed by the moderate muslims, comprende stupido?
I want to note that by "moderate muslims" i mean
lesser, not as strict belivers.
The day my intellect is below a pakistani telephone support lineYour inability to comprehend this again points to your inferior intellect
guy is the day when cows starts flying. How about you get your
head out of your ass and start learning other things about the world
then just islam before you talk about intellect.
I feel accomplished
It's cool buff, I know you have passion for this stuff.
I feel accomplished
like I said it was a joke
I knew it was a stupid and loaded response to try and lighten things up
Senior Member
I feel accomplished
I did a poll on you in this thread to see why Israel was important to Muslims, here are some quotes.
Imagine if--during the Cold War--the Soviet Union occupied the entire state of Florida. Do you think Americans would just "let it go"? They would fight tooth and nail for it back. It's not just the land; after all, Florida is a small land mass compared to the rest of America. However, Florida would then become a Soviet base right next door to America. As such, it has geo-political importance. Likewise, Israel is located in the heart of the Middle East, and as such, it has great geo-political importance.
It took Saladin 200 years to reclaim Jerusalem from the Crusaders. Israel is some 60 years old. The Muslims trust in God, and know that the occupiers will be kicked out, just like the Crusaders were thrown out aforetime.
We Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammad [s] visited Jerusalem in what is known as the Night Journey; this was in reality, and not in his sleep. However, what should be kept in mind is that the Muslims revere many prophets, not just Prophet Muhammad [s]. We revere Prophet Moses [as], who traveled with his tribe to the land of Palestine. We revere Prophet Jesus [as] who was born in the holy land. And there were many other prophets who were sent to that blessed land. Therefore, even if Prophet Muhammad [s] never visited Jerusalem, it would not negate the importance of the city.
There are three special mosques in Islam: one of them is located in Mecca, one in Madeenah, and one in Jerusalem. Prophet Muhammad [s] said:
“No (religious) journey should be made except to three mosques: al-Masjid al-Haraam [the Kaba'ah in Mecca], Masjid al-Rasool [the Prophet's Mosque in Madeenah] and Masjid al-Aqsa [in Jerusalem].” (Sahih al-Bukhari)
Throughout the hundreds of years of Islamic rule, Jerusalem has always been considered holy by the Muslims. When the Crusaders captured Jerusalem, the famous Saladin united the entire Muslim world to liberate it, such was the importance of the land.
There are only three holy cities in Islam: Mecca, Madeenah, and Jerusalem. Indeed, the early Muslims faced Jerusalem to pray--not Mecca. The city--and the land surrounding it--is very important to Muslims from a religious perspective. In verse 5:21, the Quran itself calls Jerusalem--and that which surrounds it--as "the holy land."
hate the leaders put over our heads and the borders imposed upon us by the colonialists that left our lands recently. We need to shake them off, and go back to how things were before the colonial enterprise in our lands."
What I'm getting at is the two state system doesn't solve any of the issues and will not put a long term end to the fighting. It leaves almost everything important to you in the hands of the Jews doesn't it. How can the Muslim world accept this, and how long will it put a stop to the fighting.
The Israelis get the majority of the land, whereas the Palestinians would get only the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, whereas the Israelis would get all the better land including West Jerusalem.
You state Israelis get the majority and all the better land...doesn't sound like a deal you are truely happy with.
On top of that the Jews have no interest in giving up anything.
Re-read what I quoted from you and then tell me again I don't know what I'm talking about. You want it all not just a peice.
CHEMICALLY ENGINEERED
You misspelled "piece"
Holy mother of god, did you even graduate middle school?
CHEMICALLY ENGINEERED
haha Its intense isn't it??
Im sitting on the edge of my seat.
lol, I need a life.
I feel accomplished
Under a two state system how do you know Hamas wouldn't take control of the West bank, just as it controls Gaza?
You said you wanted to go back to 1967 borders but before 1967, Jordan and Egypt were responsible for the West Bank and Gaza. Israel was small and its borders were not very defensible. Israel won't be willing to leave themselves without defensable borders. A Palestinian state controlled by Hamas in the West Bank would create a security situation.
So, the Jews have some justification for their own safty alone.
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The two state system may be accepted by many
it is my opinion
Militant muslims will only accept it as a step in the right direction...the right direction being reclamation of all of Israel.
I feel accomplished
What I'm saying is he is not forced to drink smoke or party, that is his choice. He has departed from the religion of his own free will, not because someone made him do it.
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