Politics as usual: another bad sign for world peace; Obama cowers to pro-Israelis

[eliteforce]

* During the Byzantine empire, Byzanties expell Jews from Palestine and they take refuge in Arab controled parts of middle east, Arab Empire (Islamic Caliphate) conquers Palestine and Jews are allowed to live wherever they want in the Empire.

* The Crusaders arrived in Jerusalem and exterminated the indegenous Jews and Muslims that are there (who were living together in peace), the rest flee to Arab controlled areas, Muslims march back in, do not exterminate Crusaders instead they are given safe passage out, eventually some crusaders stay and others go back to Europe after the crusaders collapsed, Jews are allowed back in to Palestine or are allowed to live where they want.

* The Zionists arrive and massacre and expel Muslims and Christians from Palestine, 1948, 1967. The ones that remain are forced to live in bantustans.

Seems like the conflict always breaks down along racial lines, considering those Jews in the Byzantine and Crusader era were middle eastern, the Byzantine Empire was the eastern part of the old Roman Empire and christian, the Crusaders were mostly from western Europe and Britain, the Zionists were predominantly western or caucasian in ethnicity and the zionist movement was started in western Europe..

Where were the "Judeo-Christians" back then?

Umm, no. Historically, the Muslims were the ones who invited Jews to live in their lands. I've already established this. For HUNDREDS of years, Muslims allowed Jews in their lands, and Jews fled to Muslim lands for refuge. And great thanks do the Zionist Jews give by expelling the Muslims from Palestine. Think of how amazing this is: we are the ones who kept allowing them back, time and time again. But the minute they got control, they expelled millions of Palestinians, and denied them the Right of Return. We gave them the right of return; they did not give us this, and they continue to deny it.

With regards to Anti-Semitism in Muslim world, it's no less than the anti-Muslim and anti-Arab sentiment in Israel. Do you deny this? Do you know how Arabs and Muslims are treated in Jewish Israel? Worse than dogs.

So please explain why you are trying to vilify the Muslims when a worse situation exists in the Jewish Israel?

[Kratos]

* During the Byzantine empire, Byzanties expell Jews from Palestine and they take refuge in Arab controled parts of middle east, Arab Empire (Islamic Caliphate) conquers Palestine and Jews are allowed to live wherever they want in the Empire.

* The Crusaders arrived in Jerusalem and exterminated the indegenous Jews and Muslims that are there (who were living together in peace), the rest flee to Arab controlled areas, Muslims march back in, do not exterminate Crusaders instead they are given safe passage out, eventually some crusaders stay and others go back to Europe after the crusaders collapsed, Jews are allowed back in to Palestine or are allowed to live where they want.

* The Zionists arrive and massacre and expel Muslims and Christians from Palestine, 1948, 1967. The ones that remain are forced to live in bantustans.

Seems like the conflict always breaks down along racial lines, considering those Jews in the Byzantine and Crusader era were middle eastern, the Byzantine Empire was the eastern part of the old Roman Empire and christian, the Crusaders were mostly from western Europe and Britain, the Zionists were predominantly western or caucasian in ethnicity and the zionist movement was started in western Europe..

Where were the "Judeo-Christians" back then?

So you're saying it's a white thing?

[eliteforce]

Not totally but it's more of this western desire to control this "precious" religious area.. or maybe they think it's a strategic thing.. but the consistency is clearly there to observe and the current conflict needs to be put in perspective.

So you're saying it's a white thing?

[Kratos]

Not totally but it's more of this western desire to control this "precious" religious area.. or maybe they think it's a strategic thing.. but the consistency is clearly there to observe and the current conflict needs to be put in perspective.

Well then maybe than the consistancy is equally clear that Jews were all well and good with Arabs as long as they were brown right?

[eliteforce]

There was not a conflict between Jews and Muslims in the middle east, yes they are both predominantly dark skinned. There was a conflict between predominantly caucasian (ashkanazi) Jews in Europe with other Europeans, so those Jews with alot of western support invented this idea of a Jewish 'safe-haven' in Palestine, "and then we'll just sweep these arabs under the rug and no one will notice.." this was all during S.Africa, Rhodesia, British India, and French Indochina days where it was thought that you wouldn't get that much resistance from the developing world.. it was a miscalculation in the late 1940s.

Well then maybe than the consistancy is equally clear that Jews were all well and good with Arabs as long as they were brown right?

[Kratos]

There was not a conflict between Jews and Muslims in the middle east, yes they are both predominantly dark skinned. There was a conflict between predominantly caucasian (ashkanazi) Jews in Europe with other Europeans, so those Jews with alot of western support invented this idea of a Jewish 'safe-haven' in Palestine, "and then we'll just sweep these arabs under the rug and no one will notice.." this was all during S.Africa, Rhodesia, British India, and French Indochina days where it was thought that you wouldn't get that much resistance from the developing world.. it was a miscalculation in the late 1940s.

Wow, I'm amazed you managed to quote me on something completly change the subject. A simple you can't have it both ways statement, and you somehow managed to fabricate a point that ends in blaming white people.

Should I even bother to answer your posts as having anything of value? So far they have not been too profound.

[eliteforce]

OK so basically your against peace, any peace deal, against a Palestinian state and pro aphartied, you support a system where Palestinians are second and third calss citizens based on trumped up security threats.. there no difference between you and your settlers friends and the KUKluxKlan(extreme elements of it anyways, as most KKK groups only wanted segregation, not aphartied), the white-only governments in S Africa or Rhodesia-both of which referred to their indigenous oppositions as security threats or as a communist threat, tying them into a web of global conquest like the 'reds'. You do that with the Islamic thing.

Your basically saying that Israel is inherently oppressive and that it can never be based on equal rights in a 1 state solution (because then it would become a bi national state or a 'greater' Palestine, OR in a 2 state solution, you think you are making an argument for it's existence but in reality you making an argument for it's abolition, since most people in the world would come to the conclusion that it should faze in the bi-national plan given your "security-reality".

You also said:
"Israel would loose all rights to use military force in this region without being attacked first."
in response to me saying that if Israel withdrew to the 1967 borders and Hamas blew up a bus in telaviv anyways-then they could always easily re-invade the territory..what you said is hubris--Israel would face limited int outcry for marching back in and the Palestinians would KNOW that is the consequence and they would have a big incentive not to push their luck.. I believe they are capable of 100% cessation of violence in the event of the 1967 border pullback and they say they're ready to deliver so they should atleast be given a chance considering all that they have suffered.
If Israel invades another country without being attacked first then they will face pressure to resolve whatever issue they are complaining about peacefully, like water or whatever..same like every other country.

You also appear to say that in the 60's 70's 80's and 90s the occupation didn't exist
more nonsense or acting like you don't know what the occupation is, or that occupation is a meta-physical thing..it's not really there.. The Palestinians had everything they needed back then..so what if they're banned from using roads, or that their farm land is taken away to build a settlement or that their house is demolished or that they have no representation or rights.

There is no reason to think that the daily permit system, will cause violence because daily workers have to go home to where they live at night after they finish their day trip to work, shop, or do business..they have this system all over the world in neighboring countries...thats what you said near that you posted.

hmm what else..oh black people in america may not have forgiven and forgotten everything, but once treaty as equal citizens they did not pursue a MalcomeX or black panther strategy for their remaining issues.. had the US responded to their civil rights movement with apartheid and KKK attacks then it would have radicalized them and they would have responded with more rioting and terrorist attacks-- believe, if pushed, anyone will do it, not just arabs ..

ok and the last thing ..

I am proposing the 1967 border, the internationally recognized border, the border that israel is supposed to withdraw to according to binding security council resolution 242,338.. that is " 'more' borders not 'less' ".. you are trying to cloud the issue.. Israel existed fine from 1948-1967 with that border and NEVER was it's existence threatened..yet you claim it just so dangerous..
last item, per the Egyptian peace treaty, Egypts forces are moved back, israel's are allowed anywhere near the border(because israel is the smaller country)..for the Syrian track, a similar arrangement can be negotiated leaving the Syrian army away from the border.

[Kratos]

There was a conflict between predominantly caucasian (ashkanazi) Jews in Europe with other Europeans, so those Jews with alot of western support invented this idea of a Jewish 'safe-haven' in Palestine, "and then we'll just sweep these arabs under the rug and no one will notice.." .

Now that I told you what happend do you still think this is an intelligent statement?