why is BF% a Issue during a CYCLE

[The Deuce]

^x2, i agree with the whole BF% issue. Yea really high BF plays a factor but when were talkin 15% to 20% I dont feel its a big issue. BF is so hard to determine anyway,, someone may say there 15% and really be 20% and vice versa.

Exactly .. Thank you !! Finally I have a group of Bro's that agree with me on this issue..

definately agreed, we all have our preferences/goals and thats what it really comes down to

Couldn't agree more Brotha !!

yeah that whole "You have to be X BF to cycle!!!" is getting beat to death here. People know the risks, they're the same risks with low bf, just a little higher.


Another one that's been killing me is the natural potential wagon.

I know right "Natural Potential" ... yah in a PERFECT we all would do this.. but when you break it down.. I GUARANTEE everyone that swears that they waited til they reached their natty potential to first start cycling didn't really hit their natural potential...

I have defended this topic to the death 100 times before.. I am just plain getting sick of the ANAL bf% issue... what we are dealing with here is well in the USA an illegal substance any way u cut it.. there is a reason why it was made illegal.. because when abused ... hear what I said there ... ABUSED !! You run the risk of really hurting yourself !! EVEN DEATH !!! I know this dude who injected a whole bottle of TEST at once... 10ml's ... 2500mgs of TEST E the first time he ever did it because he didnt know what he was doin... EDUCATION is KEY !!! You have to know what you are doing and the possible side effects and consequences of your actions.. their are people that just amaze me with their stupidity , BUT to say someone CAN NOT CYCLE because they havent gotten their BF down to someone's standards is just WRONG !!!

dude and wheres you in the avi???

What's that bro??? I'm confused... lol

[MR10X]

Some of you guys guessing your BF % need to get tested,you will be in for a surprise.My son just got tested and he is very lean and was tested at 15.8%.
He loses weight very easy and he had to really work to get there.The last thing you want to do is not eat good while trying to build mass.

[WARMachine]

i know right "natural potential" ... Yah in a perfect we all would do this.. But when you break it down.. I guarantee everyone that swears that they waited til they reached their natty potential to first start cycling didn't really hit their natural potential...

I have defended this topic to the death 100 times before.. I am just plain getting sick of the anal bf% issue... What we are dealing with here is well in the usa an illegal substance any way u cut it.. There is a reason why it was made illegal.. Because when abused ... Hear what i said there ... Abused !! You run the risk of really hurting yourself !! Even death !!!show me the studies of deaths caused by aas use.
i know this dude who injected a whole bottle of test at once... 10ml's ... 2500mgs of test e the first time he ever did it because he didnt know what he was doin... Education is key !!! You have to know what you are doing and the possible side effects and consequences of your actions.. Their are people that just amaze me with their stupidity , but to say someone can not cycle because they havent gotten their bf down to someone's standards is just wrong !!!
you preach that education is key, yet you hate it when people preach responsible advice such as telling a newbie that if their bf% is too high, that shouldnt cycle. Youre a hypocrite.

bolds

As for the rest of you in this thread, what none of you seem to realize is that we practice RESPONSIBLE ADVICE! This is the exact same reason why we dont just spoon feed every newbie that comes through here. Instead, guys like TMos, Phate, Marcus, Merc, as well as myself and many others want people to learn and research these compounds in order to fully understand these potentially dangerous compounds they intend on using.

These are the reasons why we make it a point to inform people, especially new guys that a high BF% is one of many factors that add to the potential dangers of AAS use. Same thing when we ask how old they are and what their diets look like. Its all tied in. If you guys dont like it, thats fine, dont take our advice and go and pump 2500mgs of Test in yourself every week. Better yet, dont post here anymore. But to sit here and bitch and moan about people "beating BF% to death" is moronic on your parts. No where do we say you have to follow our advice...

[DS21]

bolds

As for the rest of you in this thread, what none of you seem to realize is that we practice RESPONSIBLE ADVICE! This is the exact same reason why we dont just spoon feed every newbie that comes through here. Instead, guys like TMos, Phate, Marcus, Merc, as well as myself and many others want people to learn and research these compounds in order to fully understand these potentially dangerous compounds they intend on using.

These are the reasons why we make it a point to inform people, especially new guys that a high BF% is one of many factors that add to the potential dangers of AAS use. Same thing when we ask how old they are and what their diets look like. Its all tied in. If you guys dont like it, thats fine, dont take our advice and go and pump 2500mgs of Test in yourself every week. Better yet, dont post here anymore. But to sit here and bitch and moan about people "beating BF% to death" is moronic on your parts. No where do we say you have to follow our advice...

I definetly agree with you 100% on this one. If someone has to ask what is the danger/problem with cycling with high BF, is someone that hasn't done to much research. If they hear that someone just went for 20+ BF to 16%, they get happy and think they can do it to, not saying they can't, but most likely they don't have their diet and training straight to be in the 20% BF category. When giving advise it should be to prevent someone from making a big mistake, or at least that is what I think.

[The Deuce]

bolds

As for the rest of you in this thread, what none of you seem to realize is that we practice RESPONSIBLE ADVICE! This is the exact same reason why we dont just spoon feed every newbie that comes through here. Instead, guys like TMos, Phate, Marcus, Merc, as well as myself and many others want people to learn and research these compounds in order to fully understand these potentially dangerous compounds they intend on using.

These are the reasons why we make it a point to inform people, especially new guys that a high BF% is one of many factors that add to the potential dangers of AAS use. Same thing when we ask how old they are and what their diets look like. Its all tied in. If you guys dont like it, thats fine, dont take our advice and go and pump 2500mgs of Test in yourself every week. Better yet, dont post here anymore. But to sit here and bitch and moan about people "beating BF% to death" is moronic on your parts. No where do we say you have to follow our advice...

I definetly agree with you 100% on this one. If someone has to ask what is the danger/problem with cycling with high BF, is someone that hasn't done to much research. If they hear that someone just went for 20+ BF to 16%, they get happy and think they can do it to, not saying they can't, but most likely they don't have their diet and training straight to be in the 20% BF category. When giving advise it should be to prevent someone from making a big mistake, or at least that is what I think.

MAYBE YOU SHOULD KNOW MY FULL BACKGROUND !!

I was in a horrible car wreck...

I was 245lbs. 12% BF when this occured... I had cycled many times before this had happened...


AFTER THE ACCIDENT I WAS IN A COMA, THEN BED RIDDEN, THEN IN A WHEELCHAIR, THEN FINALLY WALKING AGAIN...

I was 303lbs... 39% BF... after 18 months of HARD WORK... I managed to get myself down to 219lbs. 24%ish BF... I said OK I have done enough work..I HAD BUSTED MY FVCKIN A$$ and because some PRICK had T-BONED me I hAD LOST ALL I HAD GAINED over the many years of training my body that way.. OH WELL... SO IS LIFE.. I GOT OVER IT... BUT I MISSED AAS... I MISSED EM BAD... I wanted to supplement with AAS which was my decision...

I started 12 weeks ago... I am now back to 229lbs. 16% Bf... I KNOW HOW TO TRAIN... I KNOW HOW TO EAT.. I AM NOT A NEWBIE !!!!!

NOW it's back to my TRT for 12 weeks before I CYCLE again..... THIS IS MY CHOICE !!! I am perfectly HEALTHY...

And like I said before... I will not advocate for someone to do what I did but if I say dont do what I did then I WOULD BE A HYPOCRITE NOW WOULDN'T I ??? WOULDN'T I !!!!


I guess I will just have to do what I do and keep to myself and keep to the people who actually CARE about what I HAVE TO SAY... and IF I AM NOT WANTED HERE... I WILL LEAVE ... PLAIN AND SIMPLE....

[The Deuce]

bolds

As for the rest of you in this thread, what none of you seem to realize is that we practice RESPONSIBLE ADVICE! This is the exact same reason why we dont just spoon feed every newbie that comes through here. Instead, guys like TMos, Phate, Marcus, Merc, as well as myself and many others want people to learn and research these compounds in order to fully understand these potentially dangerous compounds they intend on using.

These are the reasons why we make it a point to inform people, especially new guys that a high BF% is one of many factors that add to the potential dangers of AAS use. Same thing when we ask how old they are and what their diets look like. Its all tied in. If you guys dont like it, thats fine, dont take our advice and go and pump 2500mgs of Test in yourself every week. Better yet, dont post here anymore. But to sit here and bitch and moan about people "beating BF% to death" is moronic on your parts. No where do we say you have to follow our advice...

Thanks Man .. whatever it's neither HERE NOR THERE... All I am saying is

IF YOU HAVE HIGH BODYFAT IT ISN'T A FRIGGEN GUARANTEE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE ANY NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WHAT SO EVER...

I dont know what your problem with me is.. but whatever.. you are right ... to each there own.. and you are going to tell me not to post here anymore??

That's just plain unfair.. why because I don't agree with you?? Because not everyone is a certain BF %?? I started my cycle at 23.96 %... WHAT WE ALL WOULD REFER TO AS FAT !! Did I need to cycle?? NO... could I have done it on my own with the assistance of AAS?? YES... was IT a shortcut??? YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT IT WAS !!! Life is full of shortcuts to get to the top... YOU HAVE TO STEP ON SOME TOES OR YOU ARENT GOING TO MAKE IT ANYWHERE IN LIFE.... That is a true statement... so what !!!?? I cycled and now I am 16.08% at last measurement... I weigh 229lbs... I AM NOT SOME 160lb 24% BF small mo-fo !!! I am by all rights.. an ANIMAL... I am stronger than HELL.. been that way my whole life... DIDN'T NEED AAS for that... JUST HOW I WAS BUILT !!! Genetics some may call it.

But I am not going to sit back and tell some NOOB that he has to be X amount of BODYFAT to cycle.. because then my friend ... AND ONLY THEN !! WOULD I BE A HYPOCRITE !!!!

I believe this was uncalled for WAR... and I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU LIKE(D) me or not... I still Like YOU... I STILL RESPECT YOU and your WEALTH of knowledge but to call me out like that in front everyone has just made it so I don't want any part of it anymore... THAT WAS WRONG. I did not give anyone BAD advice... I VOICED MY OPINION... not once did I say SCIENCE FACT!! I elaborated on my EXPERIENCE... and how I got to where I am today... NOT EVERYONE HAS TO BE IN PERFECT SHAPE... NOR DO THEY HAVE TO BE SOME BODYBUILDER BEFORE HAND TO USE AAS. I will never believe that... I AGREE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE AND BACKGROUND with weight lifting or POWERLIFTING... and be in some what of decent shape YES !! BUT no not a 12% BF shredded MOnster to use AAS... and that is my HONEST OPINION that I am entitled to.

Take it how you will... I will keep to myself and you can keep to yours... NEVER SAID I WAS PERFECT... OR THAT I WAS A KNOW IT ALL... BUT WHEN YOU BELIEVE STRONGLY ABOUT SOMETHING... you DEFEND it... and sometimes ... to the DEATH.

And like I SAID... this wasn't to bash on you in any way, shape, or form.... i have mucho respect for ya man... I'll come out and say it.. ya hurt me there bro.. ya hurt me... you DONT LIKE ME... or agree with what I say?? Fine.. there are other people out here in this community that like me... I guess ya cant be friends and be nice with everyone there is now can ya??


**PS.. - I would never recommend anyone cycle above 20% BF and I have stated that MANY MANY MANY TIMES BEFORE... I just think the figure of 12-15% BF is a lil bit too unrealistic... any way you cut it ... THEY ARE AN ILLEGAL SUPPLEMENT.. A DRUG IF YOU WILL... You don't have to be a certain this or a certain that for use of any other type of substance.. NOW WHY SHOULD THIS BE ANY DIFFERENT?? HEALTH RISKS?? Please there are health risks with everything.. BUT I MYSELF WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND AAS TO ANYONE WITHOUT A PROPER WEIGHT TRAINING BACKGROUND THAT IS AT LEAST OVER THE 200 lb mark and at or around the 20% BF mark... AND THAT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT OF PERSONAL OPINION IF I SAY SO MYSELF**

[WARMachine]

Thanks Man .. whatever it's neither HERE NOR THERE... All I am saying is

IF YOU HAVE HIGH BODYFAT IT ISN'T A FRIGGEN GUARANTEE YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE ANY NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WHAT SO EVER...

I dont know what your problem with me is.. but whatever.. you are right ... to each there own.. and you are going to tell me not to post here anymore??

That's just plain unfair.. why because I don't agree with you?? Because not everyone is a certain BF %?? I started my cycle at 23.96 %... WHAT WE ALL WOULD REFER TO AS FAT !! Did I need to cycle?? NO... could I have done it on my own with the assistance of AAS?? YES... was IT a shortcut??? YOU ARE DAMN RIGHT IT WAS !!! Life is full of shortcuts to get to the top... YOU HAVE TO STEP ON SOME TOES OR YOU ARENT GOING TO MAKE IT ANYWHERE IN LIFE.... That is a true statement... so what !!!?? I cycled and now I am 16.08% at last measurement... I weigh 229lbs... I AM NOT SOME 160lb 24% BF small mo-fo !!! I am by all rights.. an ANIMAL... I am stronger than HELL.. been that way my whole life... DIDN'T NEED AAS for that... JUST HOW I WAS BUILT !!! Genetics some may call it.

But I am not going to sit back and tell some NOOB that he has to be X amount of BODYFAT to cycle.. because then my friend ... AND ONLY THEN !! WOULD I BE A HYPOCRITE !!!!

I believe this was uncalled for WAR... and I COULD CARE LESS IF YOU LIKE(D) me or not... I still Like YOU... I STILL RESPECT YOU and your WEALTH of knowledge but to call me out like that in front everyone has just made it so I don't want any part of it anymore... THAT WAS WRONG. I did not give anyone BAD advice... I VOICED MY OPINION... not once did I say SCIENCE FACT!! I elaborated on my EXPERIENCE... and how I got to where I am today... NOT EVERYONE HAS TO BE IN PERFECT SHAPE... NOR DO THEY HAVE TO BE SOME BODYBUILDER BEFORE HAND TO USE AAS. I will never believe that... I AGREE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE SOME SEMBLANCE AND BACKGROUND with weight lifting or POWERLIFTING... and be in some what of decent shape YES !! BUT no not a 12% BF shredded MOnster to use AAS... and that is my HONEST OPINION that I am entitled to.

Take it how you will... I will keep to myself and you can keep to yours... NEVER SAID I WAS PERFECT... OR THAT I WAS A KNOW IT ALL... BUT WHEN YOU BELIEVE STRONGLY ABOUT SOMETHING... you DEFEND it... and sometimes ... to the DEATH.

And like I SAID... this wasn't to bash on you in any way, shape, or form.... i have mucho respect for ya man... I'll come out and say it.. ya hurt me there bro.. ya hurt me... you DONT LIKE ME... or agree with what I say?? Fine.. there are other people out here in this community that like me... I guess ya cant be friends and be nice with everyone there is now can ya??


**PS.. - I would never recommend anyone cycle above 20% BF and I have stated that MANY MANY MANY TIMES BEFORE... I just think the figure of 12-15% BF is a lil bit too unrealistic... any way you cut it ... THEY ARE AN ILLEGAL SUPPLEMENT.. A DRUG IF YOU WILL... You don't have to be a certain this or a certain that for use of any other type of substance.. NOW WHY SHOULD THIS BE ANY DIFFERENT?? HEALTH RISKS?? Please there are health risks with everything.. BUT I MYSELF WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND AAS TO ANYONE WITHOUT A PROPER WEIGHT TRAINING BACKGROUND THAT IS AT LEAST OVER THE 200 lb mark and at or around the 20% BF mark... AND THAT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT OF PERSONAL OPINION IF I SAY SO MYSELF**

Whoa whoa whoa whoa... Slow your roll bro.

No one is making a personal attack against you. Im just making it clear to people, new members especially that you are the exception, not the rule.

If i came off offensive, i sincerely apologize. But you must understand, when you voice your opinion about a subject that has ethical implications, i feel as a veteran member of this board i need to speak up. Its not a matter of you not agreeing with me or not. If you dont, thats perfectly fine. No where do i ever state i know it all. Ive learned so much in my short time here, sometimes it blows my mind.

But in this particular case, i feel that pointing out that you the exception to the rule, and not the rule, was important. Again if i came off as an ass, i apologize. It was not 100% directed at you, some of it was directed at others who agreed with your opinion.

Its fine to voice your opinion, cause you have experience in this area. More so that most. I have no problems with that, and to an extent, you are correct.

In fact if you read my sticky, i pretty much agree with what youre saying.

1) The most obvious way is to control your BF% before and during your cycle. Let me try to make this as clear as possible. The higher your BF% is, the higher risk of developing ERSEs are. The lower the BF%, the lower the risk. Keep in mind these are NOT the only factors, but they are some of the biggest. This of course doesnt mean that you wont get estrogen or progesterone (topic for another day) related side effects, but it does in fact reduce the likelihood. It should also be taken up under advisement to watch your diet and water retention. That bloat and poor diet only adds to problems.

As for my comment on you being a hypocrite, youre right, that was uncalled for. But your statement didnt make sense. IMO, safe advice is always best. Do we beat people over the head with the same advice, yeah probably. But thats because its safe and accurate. Telling people "I didnt experience sides. I dont believe that stuff they say." Does NOT help accomplish what we are here for. And that is to give safe, accurate, responsible advice to people who are new to the world of AAS.

I understand no one is perfect, but dont make it a point to announce that you were 25% bf or W/E and now youre 16% after the cycle. I mean thats just giving some new guys who dont know wtf they are doing a reason to make uninformed decisions.

I agree with you on the issue that not everyone will encounter ERSEs if their BF% is high. I totally agree. But its not practical to think everyone is going to be as lucky or blessed as you are. Its simply not the case. Chances are greater they will experience issues, and thats the reason why i interjected.

Sorry again if i made it seem like i didnt like you or respect your opinion. It does count and i do consider you a good member here and would like it if you would continue being so.

-WAR