"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

[WARMachine]

I will add on ERSEs will taking 19-Nors as asked. Ive been extremely busy lately, sorry for that, when i find the time, ill get to it.

Wukillabee:
If you know youre ERSE prone, and plan on using a 19-Nor, id suggest running Adex throughout the cycle. Nothing worse than gyno while using a 19-Nor. Itll be hard to differentiate what is the cause of the gyno.


-WAR

[wukillabee]

I will add on ERSEs will taking 19-Nors as asked. Ive been extremely busy lately, sorry for that, when i find the time, ill get to it.

Wukillabee:
If you know youre ERSE prone, and plan on using a 19-Nor, id suggest running Adex throughout the cycle. Nothing worse than gyno while using a 19-Nor. Itll be hard to differentiate what is the cause of the gyno.


-WAR

Thanks for the quick response bro! I was thinking to start l-dex (more affordable than pharm grade tabs but i do have some just in case) from day one of cycle at .25mg e3d. If i still get erse/gyno symptoms then to bump the dose to .5mg ed and go from there. If that doesnt do the trick even at 1mg ed then start my pharm grade tabs of letro and go from there. I also have pharm grade bromo and liquid prami on hand for prolactin problems too. Does this sound ok?
My exp with erse's: My first cycle was just test enth. Around week 6ish i got sensitive nips for a few days, then about the 5th day of itchy nips i noticed a super small pea size lump forming in each nip, i then started .5mg of l-dex ed and after only 7 days all erse's went away! I then stayed on .25mg l-dex rest of cycle just to be safe. Problem here though is the second i started l-dex even after lowering the dose, all gains in all areas came to a complete stop which sucked!
Second cycle was just test prop (some orals here and there). Around week 6ish again i got the sensitive nips. I then started 20mg pharm grade nolva tabs ed and again, after exactly 7 days all erse's went away. This time though i didnt take any serm/ai after symptoms went away and continued the cycle to 13 weeks with no more flare ups.
Now, knowing all this i was planning a cycle like this soon:
weeks 1-4 dbol 40-50mg ed
weeks 1-12 or 14 deca 450mg week
weeks 1-14 or 16 test 500 (250cyp+250enth) week
weeks 4-start of pct hcg 250iu week
day 1 until pct proviron 50mg ed
PCT: Starts 2 weeks after last shot
Week 1 clomid 100mg ed
Weeks 2-5 clomid 50mg ed
weeks 1-5 nolva 20mg ed
Now with this cycle in mind, what kind of erse prevention would u suggest bro? I know theres no ai in pct because im sure youll have me run an ai throughout the cycle til start of pct (probably l-dex). If i had to i might be able to get some liquid aromasin for pct, not gonna make an order just for some aromasin tabs, source wouldnt like that, hehe. What do you think bro?
Not sure on weeks of deca and test yet. Gonna see how i react to deca, if good then ill run deca 14 weeks, if bad then depending how bad i react will depend on how long but im sure at least 12 weeks. Of course test will be ran at least 2 weeks longer than the deca. Should i include proviron in the pct or will that not really make a difference for recovery? Ive used hcg in my last cycle leading up to pct and i recovered pretty dang quick so thats why im hard on using it this cycle and all for that matter! Last time i ran hcg i just did 1000iu week for 5 weeks leading up to start of pct. This time i want to run 250iu week starting from when im shut down til start of pct and see if that makes recovery any easier. Open to any and all suggestions, thanks!

[wukillabee]

Thanks for the quick response bro! I was thinking to start l-dex (more affordable than pharm grade tabs but i do have some just in case) from day one of cycle at .25mg e3d. If i still get erse/gyno symptoms then to bump the dose to .5mg ed and go from there. If that doesnt do the trick even at 1mg ed then start my pharm grade tabs of letro and go from there. I also have pharm grade bromo and liquid prami on hand for prolactin problems too. Does this sound ok?
My exp with erse's: My first cycle was just test enth. Around week 6ish i got sensitive nips for a few days, then about the 5th day of itchy nips i noticed a super small pea size lump forming in each nip, i then started .5mg of l-dex ed and after only 7 days all erse's went away! I then stayed on .25mg l-dex rest of cycle just to be safe. Problem here though is the second i started l-dex even after lowering the dose, all gains in all areas came to a complete stop which sucked!
Second cycle was just test prop (some orals here and there). Around week 6ish again i got the sensitive nips. I then started 20mg pharm grade nolva tabs ed and again, after exactly 7 days all erse's went away. This time though i didnt take any serm/ai after symptoms went away and continued the cycle to 13 weeks with no more flare ups.
Now, knowing all this i was planning a cycle like this soon:
weeks 1-4 dbol 40-50mg ed
weeks 1-12 or 14 deca 450mg week
weeks 1-14 or 16 test 500 (250cyp+250enth) week
weeks 4-start of pct hcg 250iu week
day 1 until pct proviron 50mg ed
PCT: Starts 2 weeks after last shot
Week 1 clomid 100mg ed
Weeks 2-5 clomid 50mg ed
weeks 1-5 nolva 20mg ed
Now with this cycle in mind, what kind of erse prevention would u suggest bro? I know theres no ai in pct because im sure youll have me run an ai throughout the cycle til start of pct (probably l-dex). If i had to i might be able to get some liquid aromasin for pct, not gonna make an order just for some aromasin tabs, source wouldnt like that, hehe. What do you think bro?
Not sure on weeks of deca and test yet. Gonna see how i react to deca, if good then ill run deca 14 weeks, if bad then depending how bad i react will depend on how long but im sure at least 12 weeks. Of course test will be ran at least 2 weeks longer than the deca. Should i include proviron in the pct or will that not really make a difference for recovery? Ive used hcg in my last cycle leading up to pct and i recovered pretty dang quick so thats why im hard on using it this cycle and all for that matter! Last time i ran hcg i just did 1000iu week for 5 weeks leading up to start of pct. This time i want to run 250iu week starting from when im shut down til start of pct and see if that makes recovery any easier. Open to any and all suggestions, thanks!

Bump for War

[wukillabee]

Thanks for the quick response bro! I was thinking to start l-dex (more affordable than pharm grade tabs but i do have some just in case) from day one of cycle at .25mg e3d. If i still get erse/gyno symptoms then to bump the dose to .5mg ed and go from there. If that doesnt do the trick even at 1mg ed then start my pharm grade tabs of letro and go from there. I also have pharm grade bromo and liquid prami on hand for prolactin problems too. Does this sound ok?
My exp with erse's: My first cycle was just test enth. Around week 6ish i got sensitive nips for a few days, then about the 5th day of itchy nips i noticed a super small pea size lump forming in each nip, i then started .5mg of l-dex ed and after only 7 days all erse's went away! I then stayed on .25mg l-dex rest of cycle just to be safe. Problem here though is the second i started l-dex even after lowering the dose, all gains in all areas came to a complete stop which sucked!
Second cycle was just test prop (some orals here and there). Around week 6ish again i got the sensitive nips. I then started 20mg pharm grade nolva tabs ed and again, after exactly 7 days all erse's went away. This time though i didnt take any serm/ai after symptoms went away and continued the cycle to 13 weeks with no more flare ups.
Now, knowing all this i was planning a cycle like this soon:
weeks 1-4 dbol 40-50mg ed
weeks 1-12 or 14 deca 450mg week
weeks 1-14 or 16 test 500 (250cyp+250enth) week
weeks 4-start of pct hcg 250iu week
day 1 until pct proviron 50mg ed
PCT: Starts 2 weeks after last shot
Week 1 clomid 100mg ed
Weeks 2-5 clomid 50mg ed
weeks 1-5 nolva 20mg ed
Now with this cycle in mind, what kind of erse prevention would u suggest bro? I know theres no ai in pct because im sure youll have me run an ai throughout the cycle til start of pct (probably l-dex). If i had to i might be able to get some liquid aromasin for pct, not gonna make an order just for some aromasin tabs, source wouldnt like that, hehe. What do you think bro?
Not sure on weeks of deca and test yet. Gonna see how i react to deca, if good then ill run deca 14 weeks, if bad then depending how bad i react will depend on how long but im sure at least 12 weeks. Of course test will be ran at least 2 weeks longer than the deca. Should i include proviron in the pct or will that not really make a difference for recovery? Ive used hcg in my last cycle leading up to pct and i recovered pretty dang quick so thats why im hard on using it this cycle and all for that matter! Last time i ran hcg i just did 1000iu week for 5 weeks leading up to start of pct. This time i want to run 250iu week starting from when im shut down til start of pct and see if that makes recovery any easier. Open to any and all suggestions, thanks!

Bump for War now hes back. Only thing im changing is proviron dose to 75mg ed from day one til start of pct. Might even do 50mg ed first couple weeks of pct just to help with libido. Should i include nolva in my pct? I know nolva is a big no no with a 19-nor on cycle but what about pct? I think im pretty much squared away everywhere else, just not sure about what ive asked. Since im gyno prone, thinking about doing .5mg of l-dex ed throughout cycle from day one til start of pct. If i use an ai for the whole cycle, do i still need an ai (aromasin) during pct? I would assume not but not sure. Thanks!

[WARMachine]

Thanks for the quick response bro! I was thinking to start l-dex (more affordable than pharm grade tabs but i do have some just in case) from day one of cycle at .25mg e3d. If i still get erse/gyno symptoms then to bump the dose to .5mg ed and go from there. If that doesnt do the trick even at 1mg ed then start my pharm grade tabs of letro and go from there. I also have pharm grade bromo and liquid prami on hand for prolactin problems too. Does this sound ok?
My exp with erse's: My first cycle was just test enth. Around week 6ish i got sensitive nips for a few days, then about the 5th day of itchy nips i noticed a super small pea size lump forming in each nip, i then started .5mg of l-dex ed and after only 7 days all erse's went away! I then stayed on .25mg l-dex rest of cycle just to be safe. Problem here though is the second i started l-dex even after lowering the dose, all gains in all areas came to a complete stop which sucked!
Second cycle was just test prop (some orals here and there). Around week 6ish again i got the sensitive nips. I then started 20mg pharm grade nolva tabs ed and again, after exactly 7 days all erse's went away. This time though i didnt take any serm/ai after symptoms went away and continued the cycle to 13 weeks with no more flare ups.
Now, knowing all this i was planning a cycle like this soon:
weeks 1-4 dbol 40-50mg ed
weeks 1-12 or 14 deca 450mg week
weeks 1-14 or 16 test 500 (250cyp+250enth) week
weeks 4-start of pct hcg 250iu week
day 1 until pct proviron 50mg ed
PCT: Starts 2 weeks after last shot
Week 1 clomid 100mg ed
Weeks 2-5 clomid 50mg ed
weeks 1-5 nolva 20mg ed
Now with this cycle in mind, what kind of erse prevention would u suggest bro? I know theres no ai in pct because im sure youll have me run an ai throughout the cycle til start of pct (probably l-dex). If i had to i might be able to get some liquid aromasin for pct, not gonna make an order just for some aromasin tabs, source wouldnt like that, hehe. What do you think bro?
Not sure on weeks of deca and test yet. Gonna see how i react to deca, if good then ill run deca 14 weeks, if bad then depending how bad i react will depend on how long but im sure at least 12 weeks. Of course test will be ran at least 2 weeks longer than the deca. Should i include proviron in the pct or will that not really make a difference for recovery? I wouldnt bother personally. Ive used hcg in my last cycle leading up to pct and i recovered pretty dang quick so thats why im hard on using it this cycle and all for that matter! Use the hCG throughout. Ive used it as well, and recovered much easier, or so it seemed. Last time i ran hcg i just did 1000iu week for 5 weeks leading up to start of pct. This time i want to run 250iu week starting from when im shut down til start of pct and see if that makes recovery any easier. Open to any and all suggestions, thanks!




Bump for War now hes back. Only thing im changing is proviron dose to 75mg ed from day one til start of pct. Might even do 50mg ed first couple weeks of pct just to help with libido. Should i include nolva in my pct? I know nolva is a big no no with a 19-nor on cycle but what about pct? Nolva in PCT is fine. Even when running a 19-Nor. Nolvadex (Or Tam) is the conerstone for any PCT

I think im pretty much squared away everywhere else, just not sure about what ive asked. Since im gyno prone, thinking about doing .5mg of l-dex ed throughout cycle from day one til start of pct. If i use an ai for the whole cycle, do i still need an ai (aromasin) during pct? I would assume not but not sure. Thanks! If you use an AI during the cycle, i wouldnt bother with one during PCT.

Now i have one question for you, have you used Proviron on cycle before? Im a lilttle hesitent advising you to use another AI if youre using Proviron. Cause it can control ERSEs to a degree, though i wouldnt rely on it if youre ERSE prone, which it seems you are...

Tough position honestly, Ill wait for your response tomorrow.

BTW, not to worry, ive sobered up a lil..

[wukillabee]

BTW, not to worry, ive sobered up a lil..

Never used proviron ever. I do have enough now to run 75mg ed throughout cycle. I know it works as a slight ai but since im gyno prone to even just test, im sure it wont be enough. Thats why im thinking of running l-dex maybe .5mg eod? Since im running the proviron at this dose maybe l-dex .25mg eod? This was my plan then if gyno symps still popped up id run the l-dex at 1mg ed and bromo at 1.25mg ed (first few days then work up to 2.5mg ed split) til the sides went away. If that doesnt help then i have liquid letro i can dose at whatever need be or pharm grade letro tabs that i could barely break in half theyre so damn small so would be doses of 1.25mg for those. Letro of course would be last resort. Im sure the 1mg l-dex ed and up to 2.5mg pharm grade bromo ed would take care of any gyno/prolactin symps that would pop up. Then id continue the l-dex at .25mg eod rest of cycle. Sound cool or am i missing something?
I guess ill run the nolva with my pct. Just read so many horror stories bout people with a 19-nor and nolva involved. Then again i think all those stories they used the nolva on cycle to fight the 19-nor gyno symps, not in pct.

[jab1234]

another quick question:

Should I stop taking my AI (L-Dex) when I start HCG/Nolva while on cycle? I understand that Nolva reduces the performance of AI's so would it even be worthwhile to continue taking my .5mg/e2d?

thx

[WARMachine]

another quick question:

Should I stop taking my AI (L-Dex) when I start HCG/Nolva while on cycle? I understand that Nolva reduces the performance of AI's so would it even be worthwhile to continue taking my .5mg/e2d?

thx

Yes its true that Nolva reduces the effectiveness of Type II AI's.

But youre confusing me a little bit. You plan on taking Adex during the cycle, and youre gonna be using hCG AND Nolva as well?

You shouldnt use Nolva to control estrogen unless sides have already developed. You likely would experience gain losses.

So to answer your question, yes, i would continue the Adex while you use hCG on cycle. However, i wouldnt run Nolva unless side effects have already developed.

Make sense?

[WARMachine]

Never used proviron ever. I do have enough now to run 75mg ed throughout cycle. I know it works as a slight ai but since im gyno prone to even just test, im sure it wont be enough. Thats why im thinking of running l-dex maybe .5mg eod? Since im running the proviron at this dose maybe l-dex .25mg eod? This was my plan then if gyno symps still popped up id run the l-dex at 1mg ed and bromo at 1.25mg ed (first few days then work up to 2.5mg ed split) til the sides went away. If that doesnt help then i have liquid letro i can dose at whatever need be or pharm grade letro tabs that i could barely break in half theyre so damn small so would be doses of 1.25mg for those. Letro of course would be last resort. Im sure the 1mg l-dex ed and up to 2.5mg pharm grade bromo ed would take care of any gyno/prolactin symps that would pop up. Then id continue the l-dex at .25mg eod rest of cycle. Sound cool or am i missing something?
I guess ill run the nolva with my pct. Just read so many horror stories bout people with a 19-nor and nolva involved. Then again i think all those stories they used the nolva on cycle to fight the 19-nor gyno symps, not in pct.

Yes, those stories are when you use Nolva while on cycle, not in PCT.

Secondly, that sounds like a good plan. Id say somewhere around .25mgs EOD to start with for the Adex. Any symptoms (which i doubt will happen), bump the dose to .5mgs EOD and thereon. Dont exceed 1mg a day however. If you need that much help from an AI, you should run some Letro and 86 whatever estrogen is there. You got it though brutha!

Whats the PCT again btw?

[wukillabee]

Yes, those stories are when you use Nolva while on cycle, not in PCT.

Secondly, that sounds like a good plan. Id say somewhere around .25mgs EOD to start with for the Adex. Any symptoms (which i doubt will happen), bump the dose to .5mgs EOD and thereon. Dont exceed 1mg a day however. If you need that much help from an AI, you should run some Letro and 86 whatever estrogen is there. You got it though brutha!

Whats the PCT again btw?

Sounds good. Will be using hcg throughout cycle leading up to pct and an ai throughout cycle as well so pct will just be serms.
week 1 clomid 100mg ed
weeks 2-4 clomid 50mg ed
weeks 1-4 nolva 20mg ed
weeks 1-2 proviron 50mg ed
Just gonna throw the proviron in there to help keep me hard and libido up for those first few weeks of pct which are the hardest!