No sign of Test recovery after 8 wks of PCT

[Dancer]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11792932

PURPOSE: Testosterone-to-estradiol ratio levels in infertile men improve during treatment with the aromatase inhibitor, testolactone, and resulting changes in semen parameters. We evaluated the effect of anastrozole, a more selective aromatase inhibitor, on the hormonal and semen profiles of infertile men with abnormal baseline testosterone-to-estradiol ratios. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 140 subfertile men with abnormal testosterone-to-estradiol ratios were treated with 100 to 200 mg. testolactone daily or 1 mg. anastrozole daily. Changes in testosterone, estradiol, testosterone-to-estradiol ratios and semen parameters were evaluated during therapy. The effect of obesity, diagnosis of the Klinefelter syndrome, and presence of varicocele and/or history of varicocele repair on treatment results was studied. RESULTS: Men treated with testolactone had an increase in testosterone-to-estradiol ratios during therapy (mean plus or minus standard error of the mean 5.3 +/- 0.2 versus 12.4 +/- 1.1, p <0.001). This change was confirmed in subgroups of men with the Klinefelter syndrome, a history of varicocele repair and those with varicocele. A total of 12 oligospermic men had semen analysis before and during testolactone treatment with an increase in sperm concentration (5.5 versus 11.2 million sperm per ml., p <0.01), motility (14.7% versus 21.0%, p <0.05), morphology (6.5% versus 12.8%, p = 0.05), and motility index (606.3 versus 1685.2 million motile sperm per ejaculate, respectively, p <0.05) appreciated. During anastrozole treatment, similar changes in the testosterone-to-estradiol ratios were seen (7.2 +/- 0.3 versus 18.1 +/- 1.0, respectively, p <0.001). This improvement of hormonal parameters was noted for all subgroups except those patients with the Klinefelter syndrome. A total of 25 oligospermic men with semen analysis before and during anastrozole treatment had an increase in semen volume (2.9 versus 3.5 ml., p <0.05), sperm concentration (5.5 versus 15.6 million sperm per ml., p <0.001) and motility index (832.8 versus 2930.8 million motile sperm per ejaculate, respectively, p <0.005). These changes were similar to those observed in men treated with testolactone. No significant difference in serum testosterone levels during treatment with testolactone and anastrozole was observed. However, the anastrozole treatment group did have a statistically better improvement of serum estradiol concentration and testosterone-to-estradiol ratios (p <0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Men who are infertile with a low serum testosterone-to-estradiol ratio can be treated with an aromatase inhibitor. With treatment, an increase in testosterone-to-estradiol ratio occurred in association with increased semen parameters. Anastrozole and testolactone have similar effects on hormonal profiles and semen analysis. Anastrazole appears to be at least as effective as testolactone for treating men with abnormal testosterone-to-estradiol ratios, except for the subset with the Klinefelter syndrome, who appeared to be more effectively treated with testolactone.

[Swifto]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11792932

PURPOSE: Testosterone-to-estradiol ratio levels in infertile men improve during treatment with the aromatase inhibitor, testolactone, and resulting changes in semen parameters. We evaluated the effect of anastrozole, a more selective aromatase inhibitor, on the hormonal and semen profiles of infertile men with abnormal baseline testosterone-to-estradiol ratios. MATERIALS AND METHODS: A total of 140 subfertile men with abnormal testosterone-to-estradiol ratios were treated with 100 to 200 mg. testolactone daily or 1 mg. anastrozole daily. Changes in testosterone, estradiol, testosterone-to-estradiol ratios and semen parameters were evaluated during therapy. The effect of obesity, diagnosis of the Klinefelter syndrome, and presence of varicocele and/or history of varicocele repair on treatment results was studied. RESULTS: Men treated with testolactone had an increase in testosterone-to-estradiol ratios during therapy (mean plus or minus standard error of the mean 5.3 +/- 0.2 versus 12.4 +/- 1.1, p <0.001). This change was confirmed in subgroups of men with the Klinefelter syndrome, a history of varicocele repair and those with varicocele. A total of 12 oligospermic men had semen analysis before and during testolactone treatment with an increase in sperm concentration (5.5 versus 11.2 million sperm per ml., p <0.01), motility (14.7% versus 21.0%, p <0.05), morphology (6.5% versus 12.8%, p = 0.05), and motility index (606.3 versus 1685.2 million motile sperm per ejaculate, respectively, p <0.05) appreciated. During anastrozole treatment, similar changes in the testosterone-to-estradiol ratios were seen (7.2 +/- 0.3 versus 18.1 +/- 1.0, respectively, p <0.001). This improvement of hormonal parameters was noted for all subgroups except those patients with the Klinefelter syndrome. A total of 25 oligospermic men with semen analysis before and during anastrozole treatment had an increase in semen volume (2.9 versus 3.5 ml., p <0.05), sperm concentration (5.5 versus 15.6 million sperm per ml., p <0.001) and motility index (832.8 versus 2930.8 million motile sperm per ejaculate, respectively, p <0.005). These changes were similar to those observed in men treated with testolactone. No significant difference in serum testosterone levels during treatment with testolactone and anastrozole was observed. However, the anastrozole treatment group did have a statistically better improvement of serum estradiol concentration and testosterone-to-estradiol ratios (p <0.001). CONCLUSIONS: Men who are infertile with a low serum testosterone-to-estradiol ratio can be treated with an aromatase inhibitor. With treatment, an increase in testosterone-to-estradiol ratio occurred in association with increased semen parameters. Anastrozole and testolactone have similar effects on hormonal profiles and semen analysis. Anastrazole appears to be at least as effective as testolactone for treating men with abnormal testosterone-to-estradiol ratios, except for the subset with the Klinefelter syndrome, who appeared to be more effectively treated with testolactone.

I dont advocate using an AI during PCT, unless one hasnt been using when on cycle. But even then, estorgen levels will begin to decline as serum T is low.

[Dancer]

I dont advocate using an AI during PCT, unless one hasnt been using when on cycle. But even then, estorgen levels will begin to decline as serum T is low.

That point is not as relevant, IMHO, as to induce the negative feedback mechanism to induce production of free testosterone.

The Whole point of PCT to most is to restore fertility , ergo HPTA.

If you can achieve:

A total of 25 oligospermic men with semen analysis before and during anastrozole treatment had an increase in semen volume (2.9 versus 3.5 ml., p <0.05), sperm concentration (5.5 versus 15.6 million sperm per ml., p <0.001) and motility index

Your PCT will be more successful

[Swifto]

That point is not as relevant, IMHO, as to induce the negative feedback mechanism to induce production of free testosterone.

The Whole point of PCT to most is to restore fertility , ergo HPTA.

If you can achieve:

A total of 25 oligospermic men with semen analysis before and during anastrozole treatment had an increase in semen volume (2.9 versus 3.5 ml., p <0.05), sperm concentration (5.5 versus 15.6 million sperm per ml., p <0.001) and motility index

Your PCT will be more successful

You cant translate "semen analysis, semen volume and sperm concentration" to LH, FSH and T. How much does the study (full paper) state LH, FSH and T levels were raised?

If you have controlled estrogen, an AI isnt needed during PCT. SERMs are far more effective that AI at raising endogenous T. Why do you want to further reduce E when its already low (due to low aromotase) during PCT? Answer: You dont and also risk more side effects.

I'm not having this debate again, sorry. Had it with Ross 3-4 weeks back.

Stick to using an AI during PCT. Good luck with that.

[Roidbeginner]

thanks all for your response.

Previously, I was on 500mg Test e/wk + 400mg Deca/wk

My first blood test during cycle:

high estradiol
high prolactin

arimidex was taken during and into the early PCT as I have signs of gyno, although proviron is controversial, I find them taking with novaldex it remove gyno and prevent loss.

anyway, i going to modfiy my PCT to the foolowing, is this a better version

new PCT:
wk 1-4: 25mg Novaldex + clomid

with AI, will estrogen rebound occur when I cease to take novaldex?

is 4 four weeks of PCT sufficient?