Public really happy with Obama and universal health care?

[BgMc31]

it isn't a scare tactic if it's true...the term for gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine, no?

Yes, gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine but only if there are no other options. Obama isn't championing a complete take over of the healthcare he's proposing a gvmt OPTION.

more and more of the private sector is ending up in the hands of the gvmt. it's a trend that many American's don't like and at what point are you allowd to call it a move to socialism?

The institutes with government involement have always had a bit of government involvement. The gvmt bailed out Chrysler in the 70's. The gvmt stepped in during the savings and loans crisis, and medicare/medicade aren't new as well. So this new socialistic boogyman doesn't exist at the level the republicans are saying

The healthcare industry is already controlled by a 45% share in gvmt spending. Obama's plan will increase this. Healthcare is projected to be 17.7% of GDP. If the gvmt holds a monopoly on healthcare, that's a large portion of the economy put into public hands.

I for one am not afraid of the word, and don't toss it around for fear. Republicans may throw it around for their own gain. But, dems equally like to dismiss the word as a scare tactic.

It's only a word, I don't want the gvmt getting it's hands on another dollar or percentage share of the economy. I'd like to see a reverse in the trend. It didn't start with Obama. I'm sure he think's he's doing what's right for the country. Not all of America is getting what they want though, and maybe a protest like this should be a clue that his plan isn't right for everyone. He is in a unique situation with the amount of unilateral power he holds as far as a president goes. Anytime you're pushing things through, they get screwed up.

I agree with about the absolute power screwing things up. Bush enjoyed that for a bit and look what happened. With that said, the healthcare system as it stands will eventually bankrupt us. But instead of coming up with viable options, republicans just use the socialism term to scare people into not approving of it. What I fear ends up happening is a bullsh*t compromise is struck that doesn't do anything but line insurance company and politicians pockets, cost tax payers more money, with no benefit.

In bold!

[TITANIUM]

OK, We are bankrupt all ready.

Conservative estimates are approximately 4 trillion$.

We are in serious trouble.

I think that obama should be trying to prioritize his agenda.

Like the current recession we are in.

With all the other shit to deal with, I would not be focused on health care reform at this time.

Obama has spent more money in six months than all the other presidents combined.

I didn't like Busch much, but Obama makes this guy look like a alter boy.

And please, it's not a black thing for Christs sake.

It's a political thing.

If he was a flaming homosexual, I would not care.

Get the right man for the job.

Period.

best

T

[TITANIUM]

I'm going to skip out to Q&A for awile........

Best

T

[Kratos]

With that said, the healthcare system as it stands will eventually bankrupt us. .

!

I've already explained in another thread the reasons our healthcare is so expensive and that the gvmt system can't change that. It's a transfer of power from private to public, not a cost cutting move. It fits with the liberal ideals that rich and poor should all have the same of everything.

[BgMc31]

"Yes, gvmt run healthcare is socialized medicine but only if there are no other options. Obama isn't championing a complete take over of the healthcare he's proposing a gvmt OPTION."

social security was going to be on a volunteer basis also bgmc

Wasn't aware of that...please enlighten me!!!

I've already explained in another thread the reasons our healthcare is so expensive and that the gvmt system can't change that. It's a transfer of power from private to public, not a cost cutting move. It fits with the liberal ideals that rich and poor should all have the same of everything.

Liberal ideals aren't that we have the same of everything...but fundamental things like affordable healthcare should be made available to everyone and not because of some feel good ideal of equal access but rather because of the burden the uninsured put on everyone else.

[Kratos]

Wasn't aware of that...please enlighten me!!!
]

not 100% but the social secuity old age benifits when first outlined were only going to be a smaller part of the program. In a written statement to Congress in 1935, Roosevelt said that any Social Security plans should include, quote, "Voluntary contributory annuities, by which individual initiative can increase the annual amounts received in old age," adding that government funding, quote, "ought to ultimately be supplanted by self-supporting annuity plans."

The voluntary portion of the system was going to be an annuity similar to those issued by commercial insurance (alternative to the big insurance companies...sound like something you've heard lately). But, their funds would be deposited into and paid out of the Social Security trust fund, and they would provide a government-guaranteed benefit like mandatory contributions.

That got x'ed out of the bill before it passed though.
It became all mandatory taxes...and once the bill or any bill is in place.

Then in 1939 they wanted to convert to pay as you go cause there was 2 billion in the account they wanted to play with to "stimulate" the economy. Big mystake.

the amendments of 1939 made family protection a part of Social Security. This included increased federal funding for the Aid to Dependent Children and raised the maximum age of children eligible to receive money under the Aid to Dependent Children to 18. The amendment added wives, elderly widows, and dependent survivors of covered male workers to those who could receive old age pensions.

household employees working at least two days a week for the same person were added in 1950

In 1956, the tax rate was raised to 4.0% (2.0% for the employer, 2.0% for the employee) and disability benefits were added.

In 1961, retirement at age 62 was extended to men, and the tax rate was increased to 6.0%

Medicare was added in 1965 by the Social Security Act of 1965

both houses of the United States Congress approved a 20% increases in benefits for 27.8 million Americans in 1972. The average payment per month rose from $133 to $166 (20%). So in other words larger forced participation...then also cost of living increases.

In October 1972, a $5 billion piece of Social Security legislation was enacted which expanded the Social Security program. For example, minimum monthly benefits of individuals employed in low income positions for at least 30 years were raised. Increases were also made to the pensions of 3.8 million widows and dependent widowers.
These amendments also established the Supplemental Security Income (SSI). Immigrants who had never paid into the system became eligible for SSI benefits when they reached age 65.

[edit] Dates of coverage for various workers
1935 All workers in commerce and industry (except railroads) under age 65.
1939 Age restriction eliminated; seamen, bank employees added; additional domestic workers and food-processing workers removed
1946 Railroad and Social Security earnings combined to determine eligibility for and amount of survivor benefits.
1950 Regularly employed farm and domestic workers. Nonfarm self-employed (except professional groups). Federal civilian employees not under retirement system. Americans employed outside United States by American employer. Puerto Rico and Virgin Islands. At the option of the State, State and local government employees not under retirement system. Nonprofit organizations could elect coverage for their employees (other than ministers).
1951 Railroad workers with less than 10 years of service, for all benefits. (After October 1951, coverage is retroactive to 1937.)
1954 Farm self-employed. Professional self-employed except lawyers, dentists, doctors, and other medical groups. Additional regularly employed farm and domestic workers. Homeworkers. State and local government employees (except firemen and policemen) under retirement system if agreed to by referendum. Ministers could elect coverage as self-employed.
1956 Members of the uniformed services. Remainder of professional self-employed except doctors. By referendum, firemen and policemen in designated States.
1965 Interns. Self-employed doctors. Tips.
1967 Ministers (unless exemption is claimed on grounds of conscience or religious principles). Firemen under retirement system in all States.
1972 Members of a religious order subject to a vow of poverty.
1983 All federal civilian employees hired after 1983; members of Congress, the President and Vice-President and federal judges; all employees of nonprofit organizations. Covered state and local government employees prohibited from opting out of Social Security.
1990 Employees of state and local governments not covered under a retirement plan.


are you noticing it just gets bigger and bigger?

as for healtcare it will follow suit, or the empty suit that is Obama...he has said, once the bill is into law "I own it"

[Kratos]

because of the burden the uninsured put on everyone else.

and the burdon will be shifted to???