why are whites so dumb

[Flagg]

savants and people with autisum as well as retards are statistical outliers...they don't really influence the mean for the most part.

Probably the single smartest person I know is black and from Africa, he's a brain surgeon and a prince (yeah a real one). I'm not saying all black people are stupid at all or that they shouldn't have equal opp.

Yeah I mean that's what I mean, for all the mediums and mean averages you have, you'll always have outliers. But I follow what you mean Kratos, I mean you study Economics right? Well I study Environmental Science, but we have to know statistics, mostly to study population sizes. So statistical data is pretty clear cut, however im not entirely sure that white people are genetically superior intellectually, and that a lot of it is based on upbringing. Take your friend, The Prince. Being a Prince, im sure he had the best schooling that money could buy. That is going to make a huge difference.

[Dukkit]

kill whitey

[BgMc31]

I see blacks on CMT all the time.

examples, please...

Cause any test that shows results you don't like must be bias or flawed. The tests aren't perfect but why do Asians out perform whites? Asia is a much different culture. Why do black people in America score lower, the culture is very similar.

If it makes you feel better, blacks have a much higher testosterone level from the ages of 7-24 and are more sensitive to androgens. It means they can get jacked easier, and test is helpful in developing fighting ability.

yes we are better athletes...LOL!!! But that doesn't make me feel better. You know I will accept scientic proof is the conclusion is based on sound scientific theory. But the fact that these IQ tests aren't indicative of what 'general knowlege' is, then I find the testing suspect. Anatomically there is no difference between a black man's brain size and chemistry as a white man's. So IQ testing to me is a bit suspect. NOt an excuse for poor testing amongst blacks, just a general observation. When you say black culture and white culture are similar, what do mean? Do you mean that a black person from inner city Compton's culture is similar to someone from Beverly Hills? Or is a black person from rural Mississippi is similar to a white person's from Madison, Wisconsin? You see my point?

[BgMc31]

kill whitey

No don't kill white, love whitey!! Some of my best friends are white!

[Kratos]

examples, please...




yes we are better athletes...LOL!!! But that doesn't make me feel better. You know I will accept scientic proof is the conclusion is based on sound scientific theory. But the fact that these IQ tests aren't indicative of what 'general knowlege' is, then I find the testing suspect. Anatomically there is no difference between a black man's brain size and chemistry as a white man's. So IQ testing to me is a bit suspect. NOt an excuse for poor testing amongst blacks, just a general observation. When you say black culture and white culture are similar, what do mean? Do you mean that a black person from inner city Compton's culture is similar to someone from Beverly Hills? Or is a black person from rural Mississippi is similar to a white person's from Madison, Wisconsin? You see my point?

I mean blacks and whites share the similarity of being American and subject to the same stimuli, popular books, motivations, and popular media.

and there are anatomical differences although we don't know what they mean yet.
http://books.google.com/books?id=Ydn...0brain&f=false

[Kratos]

Wanted: More Race Realism, Less Moralistic Fallacy
By J. Philippe Rushton

[Recently by J. Philippe Rushton: I.Q.: Why Africa is Africa – and Haiti Haiti]

The "naturalistic fallacy," identified by philosopher David Hume (1711–1776), occurs when reasoning jumps from statements about what is to prescription about what ought to be.

An example of the naturalistic fallacy: approving of all wars if scientific evidence showed warfare was part of human nature.

The converse of the naturalistic fallacy is the "moralistic fallacy"- jumping from prescriptions about what ought to be to statements about what is.

An example of the moralistic fallacy: claiming that, because warfare is wrong, it cannot be part of human nature.

The term "moralistic fallacy" was coined by Harvard University microbiologist Bernard Davis after calls for ethical guidelines to control the study of what could allegedly become "dangerous knowledge"…such as the genetic basis of IQ.

For well over a generation, the study of the genetic and racial aspects of I.Q. has given rise to the best examples we have of the moralistic fallacy in action. Happily, under the sheer weight of evidence, there are now signs this anti-intellectual and unscientific prohibition is breaking down, at least in the academic world.

Despite repeated claims to the contrary, there has been no narrowing of the 15- to 18-point average IQ difference between Blacks and Whites (1.1 standard deviations). The differences are as large today as when first measured nearly 100 years ago. These differences, and the associated gaps in living standards, education levels etc., are rooted in factors that are largely heritable, not cultural. IQ differences are attributable more to differences in brain size than to racism, stereotype threat, item selection on tests, and all the other suggestions given by the commentators.

It is time to meet reality. It is time to stop committing the "moralistic fallacy" that good science must conform to approved outcomes.

In 1969, the Harvard Educational Review published a lengthy article by Berkeley educational psychologist Arthur Jensen "How Much Can We Boost IQ and School Achievement?" Jensen concluded:

IQ tests measure socially relevant general ability;


individual differences in IQ have a high heritability, at least for the White populations of the United States and Europe;


compensatory educational programs have proved generally ineffective in raising the IQs or school achievement of individuals or groups;


because social mobility is linked to ability, social-class differences in IQ probably have an appreciable genetic component; and tentatively, but most controversially,


the mean Black-White group difference in IQ probably has some genetic component.
An enormous commotion ensued. Jensen's conclusions, the theoretical issues they raised, and the public policy recommendations that many saw as stemming directly from them, were dubbed "Jensenism," a term which entered the dictionary.

Since then, Jensen has quietly continued to publish. Steadily, his views have gained support amongst fellow social scientists.

In 1994, The Bell Curve by Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray presented general readers an update of the evidence for the hereditarian position, along with several policy recommendations. They introduced to the general public the results of the 12-year National Longitudinal Survey of Youth. This had found that most 17-year-olds with high scores on the Armed Forces Qualification Test, regardless of ethnic background, went on to occupational success by their late 20s and early 30s. Those with low scores were more inclined to welfare dependency.

The study also found that the average IQ for African Americans was lower than those for Latino, White, East Asian, and Jewish Americans (85, 89, 103, 106, and 113, respectively).

Currently, the existence of the 15-to-18 point difference (1.1 standard deviations) between Blacks and Whites in the U.S. is not in itself a matter of empirical dispute. A meta-analytic review in Personnel Psychology in 2001 by Philip Roth and colleagues showed it also holds for college and university application tests, for tests for job applicants in corporate settings, and in the military.

Further, the Black-White IQ difference shows up before 3 years of age on most standardized test batteries, even after matching on maternal education and other variables. Therefore it is not due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. (The East Asian IQ advantage appears by five years of age.)

The question still remaining: is the cause of the group differences in average IQ purely social, economic, and cultural? Or are genetic factors also involved?

To attempt a definitive answer, I teamed up with Arthur Jensen and together we examined ten categories of scientific evidence from around the world published since Jensen’s path-breaking 1969 paper.

We concluded that the genetic component in Black-White differences is even higher than we had initially thought—likely 80%. This conforms to the "default hypothesis" laid out in Jensen’s 1998 book, The g Factor—that, by adulthood, genetic and cultural factors carry the exact same weight in causing the mean Black-White IQ difference as they do in causing differences between individuals in IQ—about 80% genetic/20% environmental.

For each set of data we contrasted a hereditarian model (50% genetic/50% cultural) and a culture-only model (0% genetic/100% cultural). Our 50/50 model did not exclude environmental factors, but it did require they be concretely demonstrable. Although the evidence we reviewed provided strong support for the genetic component of the model, we were unable to demonstrate any environmental element.

Our 60-page review, Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability, was published as the lead article in the June 2005 issue of Psychology, Public Policy, and Law, a journal of the American Psychological Association, along with four responses—three critical—and our own reply (which lays out our refutations of our critics in some detail).

Here is some of the technical evidence we reviewed that led us to our conclusions:

1. The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores.
Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 (in the United States) and only 70 in sub-Saharan Africa. The same rank-order of race differences is found for "culture-fair" tests and reaction time measures. (Reaction time tasks are so easy that all children can do them in less than one second. More intelligent children, measured by conventional IQ tests, perform faster on these tasks. East Asians average faster reaction times than Whites who have faster reaction times than Blacks.)

VDARE.com readers may recall I even traveled to South Africa to collect new IQ data to corroborate the remarkably low test scores reported for the general African population—mean IQ of 70. I tested IQ scores from highly-selected Black students at the prestigious University of the Witwatersrand in Johannesburg.

Seven studies conducted at universities in South Africa, including my own, yielded a median IQ of 84. Assuming that African university students are 1 standard deviation (15 IQ points) above the population mean, as university students typically are, the finding of a median IQ of 84 corroborates the general population mean of 70.

All over the world, mean IQs differ much less within major population groups than between them. Whites have IQs close to 100 whether they live in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or South Africa, whereas Blacks in sub-Saharan Africa have IQs closer to 70 regardless of whether they live in East, West, Central, or Southern Africa—or whether the data were collected in the 1920s or the 2000s

This worldwide pattern contradicts the hypothesis that the low IQ of American Blacks is due to "White racism." Many of the African countries showing a mean IQ = 70, such as Nigeria and Ghana, have been independent for half a century—and the Caribbean island of Haiti for two centuries. There has been no documented improvement in cultural achievement, or in IQ scores.

2. Race Differences are Most Pronounced on the More g-loaded components of tests.
Charles Spearman coined the term g for the general factor of mental ability (or "general intelligence"), which he postulated lay behind the observed ability of some children to do better than others in a wide range of seemingly unrelated tasks.

Some test items load more on the g factor than do other, more culturally malleable, items. A test’s g loading is the best predictor, not just of school grades and workplace performance, but also of all the other indicators and correlates of intelligence—including biological variables such as brain size, reaction times, and heritability estimates as calculated from twin studies.

Race differences are repeatedly found to be higher on more g-loaded tests. Because Black-White IQ differences are more pronounced on high g-loaded tests than on low g-loaded tests, the difference is unlikely to be the result of any idiosyncratic cultural peculiarities in this or that test. It is more likely to be due to heritage.

There is in fact no good evidence that g is affected by anything other than biology. That would require not just evidence that training produces higher scores, but also evidence of the broad transfer of training effects to other highly g-loaded tasks.

Test constructors could in principle reduce the Black–White difference to zero (or even reverse it) by including only non-g items (or those negatively loaded on g).

However, they would then be left with a test that had little or no predictive power.

3. Blacks and Whites Regress Toward Their Predicted (and Different) Means.
Basic genetic theory predicts that the IQ of offspring will regress towards the mean IQ of the population group from which the parents come. This has been amply documented for a number of physical traits in humans and in other species.

Regression to the mean is seen, typically, when individuals with high IQ scores mate. Their children tend to show lower scores than their parents. The converse happens for low IQ parents; they have children with somewhat higher IQs. This is because the parents pass on some, but not all, of their exceptional genes to their offspring. It is analogous to rolling a pair of dice and having them come up two 6’s or two 1’s. The odds are that on the next roll, you will get some value that is not quite as high (or as low).

Genetic theory predicts the precise magnitude of the regression effect. Culture-only theory makes no systematic or quantitative predictions. Black children with parents of IQ 115 regress to the Black IQ average of 85, while White children with parents of IQ 115 regress to the White IQ average of 100. Regression to a lower average IQ helps to explain the fact that Black children born to high IQ, wealthy, Black parents have test scores 2 to 4 points lower than do White children born to low IQ, poor White parents.

[VDARE.com note: This finding has important social and political implications. It means the strategy of buying off the black elite with affirmative action preferences cannot be a stable solution in the longer term, because the black elite's children will not be able to take advantage of their parents' success.]

4. The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races.
Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins show that the heritability of IQ is about the same in all races (50% or higher). There has been no indication of any special cultural influences—such as extreme deprivation, or being raised as a visible minority—being at work in one group and not in the others.

A strong genetic contribution is also indicated by Black-White differences being most pronounced on the more heritable components of tests.

One study even found that the degree of inbreeding depression (the tendency for inbred populations to suffer more intensely from various types of defects) found in various subtests conducted on the Japanese in Japan predicted the degree of Black-White differences found in the same subtests in the United States.

There is no known non-genetic explanation for inbreeding depression effects, or for why Japanese results can be used to predict Black-White differences on tests.

5. Brain Size Differences.
Larger brains are more intelligent because they contain more neurons and synapses and can process information more efficiently. Two dozen studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) have shown that brain size is related to IQ differences within race with a correlation of about 0.40.

The different races also have different brain sizes. One study followed 50,000 children from birth to age 7. The East Asian American children in the sample averaged a larger head circumference at birth, 4 months, 1 year, and 7 years than did the White children, who in turn averaged a larger head circumference than did the Black children. By age 7, the East Asian American children had an average IQ of 110; Whites, 102; and Blacks 90.

The findings on race differences in brain size are highly reliable. They have been confirmed using four independent procedures—MRI, endocranial volume from empty skulls, wet brain weight at autopsy, and external head size measures.

How do our critics handle this evidence? Rather than refuting or challenging these facts, they completely ignore them.

6. Trans-Racial Adoption Studies.
Average race differences remain despite adoption of blacks by White middle-class parents. This has been demonstrated by a number of surveys, notably the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study. The effects are especially noticeable after puberty.

7. Racial Admixture Studies.
Dozens of studies have found that lighter-skinned African Americans and the mixed-race "Coloreds" of South Africa (also lighter skinned) have average IQs between those of (for the most part) unmixed groups of Blacks and Whites. The mixed-race "Colored" population of South Africa has an average IQ of 85, intermediate to the respective African and White means of 70 and 100.

Research has shown that the finding is not due to lighter-skinned Blacks being treated better through "expectancy effects" or "labeling theory." In the Minnesota Transracial Adoption Study, for example, some children were misclassified, with their adoptive parents wrongly believing that the mixed-race children had two Black biological parents. Yet these children had the same IQs as those of other mixed-race children correctly believed by their adoptive parents to have had one Black and one White biological parent.

The IQ of Blacks in the United States, around 85, is substantially higher than the IQs of Blacks in sub-Saharan Africa. There are two explanations for this. The first is that American Blacks have about 25% White ancestry. According to genetic theory this would raise their IQs above the level of Blacks in Africa. The second is that American Blacks enjoy much higher standards of living, nutrition, education, and health care than they have in societies run by Blacks.

Living in a White society has raised rather than lowered the IQs of American Blacks.

8. Race Differences are Seen Over a Wide Range of Issues.
East Asians and Blacks fall at the two ends of a continuum. Whites are in the middle. In addition to brain size and IQ, this shows up on a suite of 60 other life-history variables. These include speed of maturation and longevity, personality and temperament, family stability and crime, and sexual behavior and fertility.

One striking example: around the world the rate of dizygotic (i.e. two-egg) twinning is less than 4 per 1,000 births among East Asians, 8 among Whites, and 16 or greater among Blacks. The tendency to produce dizygotic twins is heritable and mediated by sex hormones.

Another example: Black babies sit, crawl, walk, and put on their clothes earlier than Whites or East Asians. For walking: East Asians, 13 months; Whites, 12 months; Blacks, 11 months.

Blacks also have an earlier age of sexual maturity than do Whites, who in turn have an earlier age than do East Asians, whether measured by age of first menstruation, first sexual experience, or first pregnancy.

9. Race Differences and Human Origins Research.
The fact that the three-way pattern in IQ, brain size, and other traits is not unique to the United States but occurs internationally is consistent with a single, genetic-evolutionary theory. The currently most commonly accepted view of human origins, the "out-of-Africa" theory, posits that Homo sapiens arose in Africa about 150,000 years ago and then expanded northward beyond Africa about 100,000 years ago, with a European-East Asian split about 41,000 years ago.

Evolutionary selection pressures were different in the hot savanna, where Africans lived, than in the cold northern regions Europeans experienced, or the even colder Arctic regions of East Asians.

Thus, the further north the ancestral human populations migrated out of Africa, about 100,000 years ago, the more they encountered the cognitively-demanding problems of gathering and storing food, gaining shelter, making clothes, and raising children successfully during prolonged winters.

As these populations evolved into present‑day East Asians and Europeans, the ecological pressures selected for larger brains, slower rates of maturation, and lower levels of sex hormone, and all the other life history characteristics.

10. Culture-Only Theory Hypotheses Fail to Account for the Race-IQ differences.
Culture-only theories do not explain the race differences in IQ. They have especially failed in explaining the East Asian data. The concept that Black-White IQ differences are due to differences in socio-economic status does not survive close examination. Adjusting for socioeconomic status only reduces the Black-White IQ difference by about one-third. Nor does the evidence support other culture-only hypotheses such as test bias, test anxiety, or the consequences of being a minority in a White society.

Massive society-wide interventions such as ending segregation, the subsequent nationwide program of school busing to achieve racial balance, and the Head Start programs have failed to reduce the differences. Head Start programs did produce modest gains in school retention and graduation rates among Whites—but not Blacks.

Large scale, often well-publicized, countywide amelioration projects (such as the $2 billion program in affluent Montgomery County, Maryland, as well as the Kansas City, Missouri, school district, under judicial supervision since 1985), have never yet made a replicable dent in the Black-White achievement gap (despite low student-teacher ratios and computers in every classroom).

The narrowing of the gap between Black-White social conditions has not led to any change in the magnitude of the Black-White IQ difference in over 100 years.

How do critics explain the fact that the Black-White difference is greater on backward than on forward digit span memory, or on the more complex rather than simple reaction time measures—exactly as predicted by Spearman’s (1927) hypothesis?

How do they explain the fact that Black students from families with incomes of $80,000 to $100,000 score considerably lower on the SAT than White students from families with $20,000 to $30,000 incomes?

How do they explain why social class factors, all taken together, only cut the Black-White achievement gap by a third?

Culture-only theory cannot predict these facts; often its predictions are opposite to the empirical results.

Conclusion:
Discussing this evidence with those who, for whatever reason, refuse to consider the behavioral genetic or evolutionary aspect of race and intelligence is little more than arguing past one another.

But the harsh fact is that the more we remove environmental disadvantages, improving everybody’s intellectual performance, the greater will be the relative influence of genetic factors.

Equal opportunity will result in unequal outcomes—within families, between families, and between population groups.

Perhaps the fact that we have learned to live with the first, and to a lesser degree the second, offers some hope we can learn to do so for the third.

http://vdare.com/misc/051207_rushton_fallacy.htm

[rockinred]

Can someone please enlighten me to what intelligent means please? How do you measure this? Is it the ability to read and comprehend? Once again those are taught behaviors in western cutlure. Now if you put some alleged bookworm/genius in the jungle and told him to survive. Will he still maintain his genius status?

I will never buy into this. It is only accepted by those who create it and subscribe to it because they think they are superior to others for some reason. You cannot measure happiness, love.

Here is another example.... Mr. Jones is a high level executive at intel corporation. He makes mult-million dollar split second decisions. His decisions are second to none. He goes home and his life is a wreck. Daughter is having trouble in school, drugs, wife cheating on him, you name it. He offers no sound advice and doesn't know how to handle the situation. Now on paper he is genius. In reality he is fvcking dumb failure according to my IQ assessment.

I am jumping out of this racial debate and leave you with something to think about.

[Kratos]

[B]yes we are better athletes...LOL!!! ]

So you will buy that people of african decent can have a statistically significat difference in sex hormone (a proven fact) in their younger years. They can have more pigment and other adaptations for the harsh conditions in africa, but over many many generations and diffent conditions intelligence can not be impacted?

[rockinred]

Kratos, you appear to be a pretty bright guy, but where we will differ always... is that you are totally sold and bought into the education system. If it doesn't state it in the books then you don't rationalize it. Those books are written by another dude just like us. There is no authority on things... most things in life are hypothesis.

[Kratos]

Can someone please enlighten me to what intelligent means please? .

a scale to measure numerically between sam I am and steven hawking...so that we can move past saying that person is smart or stupid and put an actually number of how smart or stupid.

[Kratos]

.

Here is another example.... Mr. Jones is a high level executive at intel corporation. He makes mult-million dollar split second decisions. His decisions are second to none. He goes home and his life is a wreck. Daughter is having trouble in school, drugs, wife cheating on him, you name it. He offers no sound advice and doesn't know how to handle the situation. Now on paper he is genius. In reality he is fvcking dumb failure according to my IQ assessment.

He spends too much time at work cause that's what he enjoy's. I worked with plenty of people like this in the corperate world...they'd rather get a new wife and continue to focus on work.

[Kratos]

Kratos, you appear to be a pretty bright guy, but where we will differ always... is that you are totally sold and bought into the education system. If it doesn't state it in the books then you don't rationalize it. Those books are written by another dude just like us. There is no authority on things... most things in life are hypothesis.

Studying bio and chem will make you that way. I have plenty of original thought but if you can't find facts to back up ideas, you've just got dribble imo. Hypothesis are fine, once you have one seek evidence.

[rockinred]

A number? a real number or unreal number... you do know that math has it's limitations and is also created through formulations? everything we learn and do is subjective. Asians score high because their culture pushes it harder than Western. It does not mean they have a greater capacity to learn something than a white man.

once again I will never believe in these... these to me are designed to bring diversity gaps and communication barriers between people.

[Kratos]

How do you measure this? Is it the ability to read and comprehend? Once again those are taught behaviors in western cutlure. Now if you put some alleged bookworm/genius in the jungle and told him to survive. Will he still maintain his genius status?
.

You didn't have retaded kids at your school growing up...you knew they weren't too smart...they were retards for god sake. The ability to apply taught behaviors is important, yes. If you had a dog who did nothing but lay there and shit itself, and you couldn't train it to sit, roll over or anything...you might call him a little dumb, and the same is true for humans. yes the bookworm would still be a genious, being in a forgein enviroment doesn't change that. The smarter he is, the faster he will figure out new skills to survive if he had never been taught them before...take the retarded guy from the school you grew up in...do you think he's going to start building a shelter...the bookworm might try even if he had never done it before or have any idea how.

[rockinred]

One other thing on credentials... NO matter what you look for, you can find supportive evidence and backing for your theory. If I want to claim linkage to asian, white, or black... I can do it by picking an ancestor to trace all the way back. That might be a silly analogy, but I have seen it time again. When someone wants to believe something they can easily justify and find supporting evidence. We see that all the time on this board and theories for exercise. Pick what you want and the support is there. all this is no different.

[Kratos]

. Asians score high because their culture pushes it harder than Western. It does not mean they have a greater capacity to learn something than a white man.
.

no, asians in asia score the same as asians anywhere in the world on average.

[Kratos]

One other thing on credentials... NO matter what you look for, you can find . That might be a silly analogy, but I have seen it time again. When someone wants to believe something they can easily justify and find supporting evidence. We see that all the time on this board and theories for exercise. Pick what you want and the support is there. all this is no different.

k, find me evidence that blacks outperform whites in IQ

[rockinred]

You didn't have retaded kids at your school growing up...you knew they weren't too smart...they were retards for god sake. The ability to apply taught behaviors is important, yes. If you had a dog who did nothing but lay there and shit itself, and you couldn't train it to sit, roll over or anything...you might call him a little dumb, and the same is true for humans. yes the bookworm would still be a genious, being in a forgein enviroment doesn't change that. The smarter he is, the faster he will figure out new skills to survive if he had never been taught them before...take the retarded guy from the school you grew up in...do you think he's going to start building a shelter...the bookworm might try even if he had never done it before or have any idea how.

Ok, take out the extremes... Which man is smarter.

A man who has a low paying job and is known around his neighborhood as the one of the best persons you will ever meet. He takes care of his family and provides them with guidance and is a very neat great person. Everyone that knows him says he is a great guy.

Another man has his PHD and a high paying job. He goes home to the exact opposite. Everywhere he goes he is thought of as a know it all and comes off very offensive.

Who is the more intelligent man? let's say according to the quiz the guy with a PHD is. What is your opinion and where does it really matter?

Life is way to complicated to throw in a quiz to measure this, imo.

[Flagg]

no, asians in asia score the same as asians anywhere in the world on average.

Yeah but what you are saying is that they are born smarter than us when I agree with RockinRed that it's their upbringing. I know a few at Uni and all they do is sit in their dorms and rooms studying all the time.

[Kratos]

Ok, take out the extremes... Which man is smarter.

A man who has a low paying job and is known around his neighborhood as the one of the best persons you will ever meet. He takes care of his family and provides them with guidance and is a very neat great person. Everyone that knows him says he is a great guy.

Another man has his PHD and a high paying job. He goes home to the exact opposite. Everywhere he goes he is thought of as a know it all and comes off very offensive.

Who is the more intelligent man? let's say according to the quiz the guy with a PHD is. What is your opinion and where does it really matter?

Life is way to complicated to throw in a quiz to measure this, imo.

having a well balanced life isn't a function of intelligence, although the guy with the low paying job may be happier and more likeable that doesn't give him the capacity to process highly compliced ideas. There are limits that intelligence puts on what your brain is capable of understanding. The guy can paint his house, fix his fence, work a fund raiser, and play ball with his kids...but you aren't going to hire him to design a new nuclear reactor and he just might not have been able to even understand the principals given the option for the education.

[Flagg]

http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Pr...telligence.htm

This shows the different types of intelligence measured today. Now I don't know about you, but I don't see a ton of talented or successful Asian Musicians out there. There are Nine types listed there and im certain that Asians do not excel in all nine of those over any other race.

[rockinred]

He spends too much time at work cause that's what he enjoy's. I worked with plenty of people like this in the corperate world...they'd rather get a new wife and continue to focus on work.

But he is still a dumb fvck to my IQ assessment, because he wasn't smart enough to see and balance his life. IMO, not very analytical. He is not the only one working 12-14 hour days. Plenty do that and know how to take care of family and be productive and smart. In my book he is dumb and in the end he loses.. where did his alleged smarts take him to? He is depressed and hates life and eventually leaves job and then settles to something totally different.

I am making shtt up with this story, but you catch what I am saying. He is anything but smart to me. He was just a selfish person that dedicated all his time to a certain tasks and lived an unbalanced life. He would not be chalked down as superior intelligence to me. imo.

[Lemonada8]

that is simply book smart vs street smarts... book smart is personal knowledge of facts and things... street smarts is how to deal with other people, how to work with others not having to do with facts....

Ok, take out the extremes... Which man is smarter.

A man who has a low paying job and is known around his neighborhood as the one of the best persons you will ever meet. He takes care of his family and provides them with guidance and is a very neat great person. Everyone that knows him says he is a great guy.

Another man has his PHD and a high paying job. He goes home to the exact opposite. Everywhere he goes he is thought of as a know it all and comes off very offensive.

Who is the more intelligent man? let's say according to the quiz the guy with a PHD is. What is your opinion and where does it really matter?

Life is way to complicated to throw in a quiz to measure this, imo.

[Flagg]

Ok, take out the extremes... Which man is smarter.

A man who has a low paying job and is known around his neighborhood as the one of the best persons you will ever meet. He takes care of his family and provides them with guidance and is a very neat great person. Everyone that knows him says he is a great guy.

Another man has his PHD and a high paying job. He goes home to the exact opposite. Everywhere he goes he is thought of as a know it all and comes off very offensive.

Who is the more intelligent man? let's say according to the quiz the guy with a PHD is. What is your opinion and where does it really matter?

Life is way to complicated to throw in a quiz to measure this, imo.

Exactly. The first guy excels in Interpersonal Intelligence, and if he applied himself could be a good politician or teacher. You could argue that he isn't smart enough to realise this though. The second guy has Intrapersonal Intelligence and probably and probably Logical Mathematical Intelligence. Neither guy is over all smarter than the other, and neither guy could ever hope to understand the other.

[rockinred]

that is simply book smart vs street smarts... book smart is personal knowledge of facts and things... street smarts is how to deal with other people, how to work with others not having to do with facts....

Lemonade.. I agree with you and refrained from using that terminology... but, it supports that there is no real measurement of smarts/intelligence. call it street smarts or whatever, but that makes it more degrading from what it actually is. A smart person that know how to handle situations presented to them in life.

[rockinred]

Exactly. The first guy excels in Interpersonal Intelligence, and if he applied himself could be a good politician or teacher. You could argue that he isn't smart enough to realise this though. The second guy has Intrapersonal Intelligence and probably and probably Logical Mathematical Intelligence. Neither guy is over all smarter than the other, and neither guy could ever hope to understand the other.

Exactly my perspective.

[Flagg]

There are just different levels of intelligence. And some people are better than others in a certain area.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

I like to think of my kracker ass as well balanced.

Do you see them nerdy smart bookworm asians and indians getting laid week in and week out and being the sports jock...hell no
Do you see blacks and mexicans make steady good grades and getting the big jobs??? hell no...


but me..lol, hell yes to both.


survival of the fittest

[Kratos]

http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Pr...telligence.htm

This shows the different types of intelligence measured today. Now I don't know about you, but I don't see a ton of talented or successful Asian Musicians out there. There are Nine types listed there and im certain that Asians do not excel in all nine of those over any other race.

That's one guy's theory that came out in the 80's and it's controversial.

Some critics argue that many of Gardner's "intelligences" actually correlate with the g factor, supporting the idea of single dominant type of intelligence. For example, Carroll (1993) argued that verbal comprehension, auditory processing, visual perception and ability in logic and mathematics all correlate with each other and are actually subsets of global intelligence. This gives further support for a theory of a single type intelligence.

"To date there have been no published studies that offer evidence of the validity of the multiple intelligences. In 1994 Sternberg reported finding no empirical studies. In 2000 Allix reported finding no empirical validating studies, and at that time Gardner and Connell conceded that there was "little hard evidence for MI theory" (2000, p. 292). In 2004 Sternberg and Grigerenko stated that there were no validating studies for multiple intelligences, and in 2004 Gardner asserted that he would be "delighted were such evidence to accrue" (p. 214), and he admitted that "MI theory has few enthusiasts among psychometricians or others of a traditional psychological background" because they require "psychometric or experimental evidence that allows one to prove the existence of the several intelligences" (2004, p. 214)." (Waterhouse, 2006a, p. 208).

evidence for shared and overlapping “what is it?” and “where is it?” neural processing pathways, and shared neural pathways for language, music, motor skills, and emotions suggest that it is unlikely that that each of Gardner’s intelligences could operate “via a different set of neural mechanisms” (1999, p. 99). Equally important, the evidence for the “what is it?” and “where is it?” processing pathways, for Kahneman’s two decision-making systems, and for adapted cognition modules suggests that these cognitive brain specializations have evolved to address very specific problems in our environment. Because Gardner claimed that that the intelligences are innate potentialities related to a general content area, MI theory lacks a rationale for the phylogenetic emergence of the intelligences." (From Waterhouse, 2006a, p. 213).

A number of articles have surveyed the use of Gardner's ideas and conclude that there is no evidence that his ideas work in practice. Steven A. Stahl found that most of the previous studies which claimed to show positive results had major flaws.

There are no talented or successful Asian musicians out there? That will be your secret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc15d...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WirEJ...eature=related

[DSM4Life]

[ni4ni]

Ruhl, good luck w/ this one!!
BGMC loves these racial issues, why??? got me
I think he's a man in a black body that wants to be white...JMO

[Flagg]

That's one guy's theory that came out in the 80's and it's controversial.

Some critics argue that many of Gardner's "intelligences" actually correlate with the g factor, supporting the idea of single dominant type of intelligence. For example, Carroll (1993) argued that verbal comprehension, auditory processing, visual perception and ability in logic and mathematics all correlate with each other and are actually subsets of global intelligence. This gives further support for a theory of a single type intelligence.

"To date there have been no published studies that offer evidence of the validity of the multiple intelligences. In 1994 Sternberg reported finding no empirical studies. In 2000 Allix reported finding no empirical validating studies, and at that time Gardner and Connell conceded that there was "little hard evidence for MI theory" (2000, p. 292). In 2004 Sternberg and Grigerenko stated that there were no validating studies for multiple intelligences, and in 2004 Gardner asserted that he would be "delighted were such evidence to accrue" (p. 214), and he admitted that "MI theory has few enthusiasts among psychometricians or others of a traditional psychological background" because they require "psychometric or experimental evidence that allows one to prove the existence of the several intelligences" (2004, p. 214)." (Waterhouse, 2006a, p. 208).

evidence for shared and overlapping “what is it?” and “where is it?” neural processing pathways, and shared neural pathways for language, music, motor skills, and emotions suggest that it is unlikely that that each of Gardner’s intelligences could operate “via a different set of neural mechanisms” (1999, p. 99). Equally important, the evidence for the “what is it?” and “where is it?” processing pathways, for Kahneman’s two decision-making systems, and for adapted cognition modules suggests that these cognitive brain specializations have evolved to address very specific problems in our environment. Because Gardner claimed that that the intelligences are innate potentialities related to a general content area, MI theory lacks a rationale for the phylogenetic emergence of the intelligences." (From Waterhouse, 2006a, p. 213).

A number of articles have surveyed the use of Gardner's ideas and conclude that there is no evidence that his ideas work in practice. Steven A. Stahl found that most of the previous studies which claimed to show positive results had major flaws.

There are no talented or successful Asian musicians out there? That will be your secret.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc15d...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WirEJ...eature=related

Who has heard of those two kids outside of YouTube? As vastly talented as that little girl is I could find a dozen American or English white kids that could play the piano that well at the age of 5 as well. Music is a gift that some people have wether its writing, playing, singing or all three, and if the music industry is anything to go by, then its dominated by white and black people.

There's an interesting piece from wikipedia about this subject which is quite interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

Interestingly, Protestants are supposed to be smarter than Catholics!

[Flagg]

Ruhl, good luck w/ this one!!
BGMC loves these racial issues, why??? got me
I think he's a man in a black body that wants to be white...JMO

Controversial!

[BgMc31]

So you will buy that people of african decent can have a statistically significat difference in sex hormone (a proven fact) in their younger years. They can have more pigment and other adaptations for the harsh conditions in africa, but over many many generations and diffent conditions intelligence can not be impacted?

You know I was merely joking Kratos.

Ruhl, good luck w/ this one!!
BGMC loves these racial issues, why??? got me
I think he's a man in a black body that wants to be white...JMO

Well your humble opinion couldn't be further from the truth!!!

Controversial!

No not really I just like these threads to try to dispell a lot of the popular misconceptions about blacks. And of course some people try their damndest (still) to prove we are inferior (Kratos, LOL). Me, wanting to be white, that's laughable. I am what I am and proud to be of African ancestry, but I also identify with my Scottish heritage as well, but I don't see much Scottish bashing threads. But guys like ni4ni try personal attacks because they cannot debate me intellectually.

[BgMc31]

I like to think of my kracker ass as well balanced.

Do you see them nerdy smart bookworm asians and indians getting laid week in and week out and being the sports jock...hell no
Do you see blacks and mexicans make steady good grades and getting the big jobs??? hell no...


but me..lol, hell yes to both.


survival of the fittest

HOORAY FOR MEDIOCRITY!!! LOL!!! You know I got nothin but love for ya BigSexxy!!!!

[Kratos]

[No not really I just like these threads to try to dispell a lot of the popular misconceptions about blacks. And of course some people try their damndest (still) to prove we are inferior (Kratos, LOL). Me, wanting to be white, that's laughable. I am what I am and proud to be of African ancestry, but I also identify with my Scottish heritage as well, but I don't see much Scottish bashing threads. But guys like ni4ni try personal attacks because they cannot debate me intellectually.

I'm not trying to prove black people are inferior. I hope never such definative evidence exists to prove any race is inferior. It doesn't really matter in my mind, everone should have equal oppertunity regardless of race or intelligence or economic status. I'm just saying I don't like the tactics add agencies are using based on race. There is no reason to cater to the insecurities or perceptions of minorities at the expense of another race. Reinforcement of sterotypes in advertising is not good even when it happens to white people.

Although the libertarian in me wants to use the data to say end affirm action, if you can't prove black people have equal intelligence then you can't force employers to equally represent them in the work place. This is for the soul reason that I hate affirmative action (not minorities), and I think we should begin curbing with a goal being an end to it.

[Kratos]

I like to think of my kracker ass as well balanced.

Do you see them nerdy smart bookworm asians and indians getting laid week in and week out and being the sports jock...hell no
Do you see blacks and mexicans make steady good grades and getting the big jobs??? hell no...


but me..lol, hell yes to both.


survival of the fittest

You are the definition of big and sexy, nobody has forgotten.

[rockinred]

I'm not trying to prove black people are inferior. I hope never such definative evidence exists to prove any race is inferior. It doesn't really matter in my mind, everone should have equal oppertunity regardless of race or intelligence or economic status. I'm just saying I don't like the tactics add agencies are using based on race. There is no reason to cater to the insecurities or perceptions of minorities at the expense of another race. Reinforcement of sterotypes in advertising is not good even when it happens to white people.

Although the libertarian in me wants to use the data to say end affirm action, if you can't prove black people have equal intelligence then you can't force employers to equally represent them in the work place. This is for the soul reason that I hate affirmative action (not minorities), and I think we should begin curbing with a goal being an end to it.

That's pretty good Kratos and I agree with you whole heartedly. I think one basis for affirmitative action initiatives are to heighten awareness on those who are hiring folks based on the applicants race being the same as theirs. I do agree it has gotten out of wack and being in the business sector I do get frustrated with it, but if it does open peoples minds a little then I think it did a little good. On the other note, I agree with you on flat out hiring the best candidate. That line becomes real shady and subjective though and that is the whole reason Gov is stepping in once again. I think some initiatives are way overkill and i have even heard things like we need to hire a female no matter what...or a minority no matter what. At that point it is defeating the AA purpose imo. Good post though.

[DSM4Life]

[clemont51]

The Hollyweird and media schmucks have for years been on a campaign to denigrate Whites. But here are some facts:

Black IQ USA 85 (this has been tested, retested, and tested again)

Mestizo IQ 85 (mestizo referes to those mixed race type flooding American. DNA 80% South American Indian, 10% White, 10% Black.

African Blacks IQ 75, Congo Bushman IQ 70.

White in America IQ 100

Of course there are exceptions but in the real world the numbers count.

Sidebar: I saw the stats a few years back and noted that according to that
study Whites from the lowest socioeconomic stratus, family income 30K or less, score 50 points higher, each half, on the SAT tests then Blacks from the highest income grouping, 125K per year income. These realities are reflected in the effort to sustain Negro colleges. If it were not for government employment the
Negroes would really be in dire straits. Forty years ago IQ 85 types could find
decent paying jobs in shipbuilding, steel, etc. Those jobs are gone and will never
be replaced.