PWO Protein

[Guyr62]

Members,

There seems to be quite a bit of consensus in this forum that the PWO protein is important. I just have a couple of questions. Currently, I use a low carb whey protein isolate for PWO. Should I be adding dextrose, maltodextrin or sucrose to this protein intake and how long after workout should I be consuming this meal? Currently I have been doing 30 min of cardio after weight training, so the meal is not consumed until about 45 min to an hour after weight training. Should I be putting the cardio on the front end of the routine so that my PWO meal is consumed closer to my weight training?
I am in an aggressive fat cutting phase, but trying to maintain as much muscle as possible. I have been losing about 5 lbs of fat per week and maybe .5 to 1 lb of muscle loss. I am consuming about 250 grams of protein, 100 grams of carbs and 40 grams of fat. That is why the timing and composition of this PWO meal is probably important. I want to make sure my restrictive carb intake is being utilized in the right places. I am eating 6 t0 7 times a day. I appreciate your thoughts!!

Thanks!
Mike

[Twist]

Members,

There seems to be quite a bit of consensus in this forum that the PWO protein is important. I just have a couple of questions. Currently, I use a low carb whey protein isolate for PWO. Should I be adding dextrose, maltodextrin or sucrose to this protein intake and how long after workout should I be consuming this meal? Currently I have been doing 30 min of cardio after weight training, so the meal is not consumed until about 45 min to an hour after weight training. Should I be putting the cardio on the front end of the routine so that my PWO meal is consumed closer to my weight training?
I am in an aggressive fat cutting phase, but trying to maintain as much muscle as possible. I have been losing about 5 lbs of fat per week and maybe .5 to 1 lb of muscle loss. I am consuming about 250 grams of protein, 100 grams of carbs and 40 grams of fat. That is why the timing and composition of this PWO meal is probably important. I want to make sure my restrictive carb intake is being utilized in the right places. I am eating 6 t0 7 times a day. I appreciate your thoughts!!

Thanks!
Mike

Don't add anything to your protein except bcaa. drink your shake before cardio and you can either take another shake right after cardio or just wait an hour or so. I like to eat egg whites right after cardio. Don't put the cardio on the front end of weight training because you want your glycogen levels to be depleted during cardio.

[Guyr62]

I appreciate all your input! Mike

[Twist]

No problem brother.

[C_Bino]

Don't add anything to your protein except bcaa. drink your shake before cardio and you can either take another shake right after cardio or just wait an hour or so. I like to eat egg whites right after cardio. Don't put the cardio on the front end of weight training because you want your glycogen levels to be depleted during cardio.

Why would you want to add free form amino's to a protein shake?

ALL free form amino's should be taken on an empty stomach BETWEEN MEALS for benefit. If you want to take BCAA's or other amino's after training than do it immediately post training, wait 30min then have your whey powder.

Adding free form amino's to your protein will do nothing but increase the nitrogen score of the protein, they will be absorbed with the protein itself.

[Twist]

Why would you want to add free form amino's to a protein shake?

ALL free form amino's should be taken on an empty stomach BETWEEN MEALS for benefit. If you want to take BCAA's or other amino's after training than do it immediately post training, wait 30min then have your whey powder.

Adding free form amino's to your protein will do nothing but increase the nitrogen score of the protein, they will be absorbed with the protein itself.

Please correct me if I am wrong...

But doesn't supplying yourself with bcaa before performing glycogen depleted cardio prevent your body from breaking down muscle tissue into amino acids to send to your liver where it is converted to glycogen?

And taking in protein is basically the same concept. So you are saying that adding say glutamine at 5g and 5g of bcaa to your whey protein shake will be counter productive?
And why is increasing the nitrogen score of the protein a bad thing?

If I am mistaken then I am really interested in a better way to spare muscle.

[**TOP**]

Its not that its counter productive,well yeah i guess it is! What hes saying is that if you want the full benefit of the BCAAs they work alone! When accompanied by whey they join together,and the Amino Acids arent capable of doing the s t e a l t h, job they were intended to do! Op what you should do is drink BCAAs while working out,if you choose to do cardio after workout sip on more BCAAs, or dont do any, your choice.But once you are done with cardio then you may have your protein shake,DO NOT add the BCAAs in with the protein. Also i wouldnt suggest buying extra Glutamine either,but thats another thread!

[C_Bino]

Its not that its counter productive,well yeah i guess it is! What hes saying is that if you want the full benefit of the BCAAs they work alone! When accompanied by whey they join together,and the Amino Acids arent capable of doing the ******* job! Op what you should do is drink BCAAs while working out,if you choose to do cardio after workout sip on more BCAAs or dont do any your choice,but once you are done with cardio then you may have your protein shake,DO NOT add the BCAAs in with the protein. Also i wouldnt suggest buying extra Glutamine either,but thats another thread!

Bingo. Not counter productive really, just not the full benefit. I use BCAA's A LOT and multiple times per day.

Just never take them along with another protein source. Why do you think we separate amino's and sell them separately? To merely put them back in with the protein we have separated them from?

They are to be used on empty stomach to get their individual benefit. So ya BCAA's before and during or immediately after exercise followed by protein after is the way to go.

[rookie28]

I'm in the same situation as Guyr62 and PWO for cutting is giving me headaches. I heard all the answers I could possibly hear. Some say to use simple carbs, others say complex carbs and I even heard fish oil. Now, what's best for cutting puropses after the workout session and the 30min cardio? thank you

[**TOP**]

i'm in the same situation as guyr62 and pwo for cutting is giving me headaches. I heard all the answers i could possibly hear. Some say to use simple carbs, others say complex carbs and i even heard fish oil. now, what's best for cutting puropses after the workout session and the 30min cardio? thank you

pro/fat

[rookie28]

thank you but what happened with the whole '' the body needs carbs PWO ''? and in the cutting diet in the sticky where there is a ton of simple carbs PWO? Sorry I'm just curious and want to have the maximum knowledge I could have.

[**TOP**]

You didnt say PWO you said PWO after cardio there is a huge difference!
PWO carbs are fine. PWO cardio you dont want no carbs,so you may reap the benefits of doing all the cardio u just did. So after cardio just have the whey and fat meal,got it? Sip on BCAAs whilst training if ou are worried about muscle loss!

[Twist]

OK so any time there is bcaa in protein it is useless? There is bcaa in every protein drink so why would they do that if it just gets converted to protein?

[C_Bino]

OK so any time there is bcaa in protein it is useless? There is bcaa in every protein drink so why would they do that if it just gets converted to protein?

Yes there are BCAA's in protein, there is also arginine in your turkey and lysine in your chicken breast.

You want the INDIVIDUAL BENEFIT than take it on an empty stomach. You want to use lysine for cold sores your take lysine on an empty stomach you dont take a protein shake. You want to use arginine for circulation you take arginine you dont eat some beef. You want to use glutamine to repair intestinal lining you take glutamine you dont go eat some fish.

GET IT?

You want to utilize BCAA's for glycogen sparing action to to prevent muscle catabolism? Take some BCAA's ALONE!

[elpropiotorvic]

Interesting bino ... How many grams per day do u use/ how much do u use just to give us an idea

[Twist]

Yes there are BCAA's in protein, there is also arginine in your turkey and lysine in your chicken breast.

You want the INDIVIDUAL BENEFIT than take it on an empty stomach. You want to use lysine for cold sores your take lysine on an empty stomach you dont take a protein shake. You want to use arginine for circulation you take arginine you dont eat some beef. You want to use glutamine to repair intestinal lining you take glutamine you dont go eat some fish.

GET IT?

You want to utilize BCAA's for glycogen sparing action to to prevent muscle catabolism? Take some BCAA's ALONE!

I have always used them in between meals but I also add to my pwo shake. So what does this nitrogen effect do? can you elaborate on that or point me to a good article?

[**TOP**]

Yes there are BCAA's in protein, there is also arginine in your turkey and lysine in your chicken breast.

You want the INDIVIDUAL BENEFIT than take it on an empty stomach. You want to use lysine for cold sores your take lysine on an empty stomach you dont take a protein shake. You want to use arginine for circulation you take arginine you dont eat some beef. You want to use glutamine to repair intestinal lining you take glutamine you dont go eat some fish.

GET IT?

You want to utilize BCAA's for glycogen sparing action to to prevent muscle catabolism? Take some BCAA's ALONE!

Im glad you broke it down like that, i was running out of ways to describe how it works.All they should be thought of are undetectable secret agents you send into your body to do quick work, if you were to have the protein shake it would be like the an army.Adding the secret agent into the army only makes the army more plentiful and not as
st ealthy.Thats the best i can come up with,live with it!!!!The best time to take your BCAAs is upon waking,during workout,in between meals etc...SEND THEM IN ALONE TO KICK ASS!!!

[Twist]

I do both and understand what you are now saying. thank you for the input. I am still interested in a good article explaining the nitrogen score and nitrogen in relation to proteins. thanks

[kalspic]

I do both and understand what you are now saying. thank you for the input. I am still interested in a good article explaining the nitrogen score and nitrogen in relation to proteins. thanks

talk to merc.

[C_Bino]

Nitrogen is how they test protein basically. It is the only macronutrient to contain nitrogen. So an easy way to test protein waste etc in the body is to measure nitrogen.

Nitrogen is contained within all amino acids. So if you add in more amino's to your protein, even tho they themselves are not complete proteins they will add in more nitrogen to the mix making the overall anabolic effect somewhat higher I suppose you could say.

You always want a positive nitrogen balance when bodybuilding to ensure more protein in than protein out. So this increases that nitrogen balance further. But again, it does not allow those amino's to do their specific job.

[jackjackson]

Great thread, This should be a sticky.

[**TOP**]

Great thread, This should be a sticky.

Agreed there are a multidude of people that misunderstand BCAAs!!

STICKY IT!!

[NC600cbr]

Im glad you broke it down like that, i was running out of ways to describe how it works.All they should be thought of are undetectable secret agents you send into your body to do quick work, if you were to have the protein shake it would be like the an army.Adding the secret agent into the army only makes the army more plentiful and not as
st ealthy.Thats the best i can come up with,live with it!!!!The best time to take your BCAAs is upon waking,during workout,in between meals etc...SEND THEM IN ALONE TO KICK ASS!!!

I found this explanation pretty amusing - yet easy to understand.

Thanks TOP and Bino, I think there is a big misconception on how to best take BCAA's and I know I for one have been using them improperly . Good stuff in here.

[Damienm05]

Thank you - this thread! I've never understood exactly how they work until now.

[BJJ]

interesting