What are the negatives or "sides" to running nolva throughout your test course?

[Merc.]

Yep ^^^^ nolva can lower igf-1 ...


Heres a study showing it does ...

Tamoxifen reduces serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I).Pollak MN, Huynh HT, Lefebvre SP.
McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Antiestrogens are widely used in the management of hormonally responsive breast cancer in both adjuvant and palliative settings, and are currently being evaluated as chemopreventive agents. The classical mechanism of action of these drugs involves inhibition of estrogen-stimulated neoplastic cell proliferation by blockade of estrogen receptors present on breast cancer cells. This paper reviews recent clinical and laboratory data that suggest that the commonly used antiestrogen tamoxifen also acts to reduce serum IGF-I levels. Estrogens appear to play a permissive role in growth hormone (GH) release by the pituitary gland and GH is known to stimulate IGF-I expression by hepatocytes. It is therefore possible that blockade of estrogen receptors in the hypothalamic-pituitary axis by tamoxifen interferes with GH release, leading to reduced hepatic IGF-I expression. In view of results suggesting that IGF-I is a more potent mitogen than estradiol for breast cancer cells and data demonstrating a positive correlation between estrogen receptor level and IGF-I receptor level of breast cancer cells, the IGF-I lowering effect of tamoxifen may contribute to the cytostatic activity of the drug. The interrelationships between steroid hormone physiology and IGF-I physiology may have relevance to a variety of commonly used treatments for hormonally responsive cancers.

PMID: 1421427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Merc.

[Swifto]

Yep ^^^^ nolva can lower igf-1 ...


Heres a study showing it does ...

Tamoxifen reduces serum insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I).Pollak MN, Huynh HT, Lefebvre SP.
McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada.

Antiestrogens are widely used in the management of hormonally responsive breast cancer in both adjuvant and palliative settings, and are currently being evaluated as chemopreventive agents. The classical mechanism of action of these drugs involves inhibition of estrogen-stimulated neoplastic cell proliferation by blockade of estrogen receptors present on breast cancer cells. This paper reviews recent clinical and laboratory data that suggest that the commonly used antiestrogen tamoxifen also acts to reduce serum IGF-I levels. Estrogens appear to play a permissive role in growth hormone (GH) release by the pituitary gland and GH is known to stimulate IGF-I expression by hepatocytes. It is therefore possible that blockade of estrogen receptors in the hypothalamic-pituitary axis by tamoxifen interferes with GH release, leading to reduced hepatic IGF-I expression. In view of results suggesting that IGF-I is a more potent mitogen than estradiol for breast cancer cells and data demonstrating a positive correlation between estrogen receptor level and IGF-I receptor level of breast cancer cells, the IGF-I lowering effect of tamoxifen may contribute to the cytostatic activity of the drug. The interrelationships between steroid hormone physiology and IGF-I physiology may have relevance to a variety of commonly used treatments for hormonally responsive cancers.

PMID: 1421427 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



Merc.

How much did it reduce IGF by though? 10%? 20%? 50%? 200%?

Have you seen the full paper Merc?

Bodybuilders for years have used Tamox at a low dose and got very good gains whilst controlling sides in the 80's and 90's. I have friends that still use it at 10mg/ED.

Without the figure one cannot form an opinoin on that above abstract, although some "guru's" do.

Ok, it reduces IGF and isnt optimal, but will it negatively effect gains?

[Merc.]

How much did it reduce IGF by though? 10%? 20%? 50%? 200%?

Have you seen the full paper Merc?

Bodybuilders for years have used Tamox at a low dose and got very good gains whilst controlling sides in the 80's and 90's. I have friends that still use it at 10mg/ED.

Without the figure one cannot form an opinoin on that above abstract, although some "guru's" do.

Ok, it reduces IGF and isnt optimal, but will it negatively effect gains?

Yes I have read the full paper( i dont only go around reading only abstracts Mate ).. That was a long study i believe .. because i posted it in my estro article thread like two years ago .. link in above post ... ( if i post a abstract i usually post a link to the full pdf paper if it is available online ).. I cant find the pdf version of that full study ( like i said i originally posted it two years ago in my estro article thread .. so i dont know if it was removed or what )..

There are different studies on this that show different results on how much it can reduce igf-1 ... some say not that much (others show it could be a significant amount ( so it can go back and forth on this) .. So than its best to look at independent anecdotal observations that can at least provide some idea how much of an issue it really is. There are two types of camps on this .. one says yes they do notice a difference when using nolva .. and than the others state that they dont have any loss of gains when using it .. So with all the discrepancies .. you kinda have to come to your own conclusion on whether you think it would be a significant amount , or not... I have used nolva and didnt notice any loss of gains .. but there are other peeps that swear it does ( which what kinda was the reason i started looking into this awhile back )..




Merc.

[Swifto]

Yes I have read the full paper( i dont only go around reading only abstracts Mate ).. That was a long study i believe .. because i posted it in my estro article thread like two years ago .. link in above post ... ( if i post a abstract i usually post a link to the full pdf paper if it is available online ).. I cant find the pdf version of that full study ( like i said i originally posted it two years ago in my estro article thread .. so i dont know if it was removed or what )..

There are different studies on this that show different results on how much it can reduce igf-1 ... some say not that much (others show it could be a significant amount ( so it can go back and forth on this) .. So than its best to look at independent anecdotal observations that can at least provide some idea how much of an issue it really is. There are two types of camps on this .. one says yes they do notice a difference when using nolva .. and than the others state that they dont have any loss of gains when using it .. So with all the discrepancies .. you kinda have to come to your own conclusion on whether you think it would be a significant amount , or not... I have used nolva and didnt notice any loss of gains .. but there are other peeps that swear it does ( which what kinda was the reason i started looking into this awhile back )..




Merc.

Thanks Merc. I didnt mean to single you out on ONLY reading abstracts, it was more of a general comment. I know you research the facts fully and I respect your opinoin.

Do wer have a number though mate? Anything at all? I think its an interesting subject indeed. Tamoxifen, it seems, it still a compound were still learning about. From its effects on IGF to its effects on PgR/ER.

[Merc.]

Thanks Merc. I didnt mean to single you out on ONLY reading abstracts, it was more of a general comment. I know you research the facts fully and I respect your opinoin.

Do wer have a number though mate? Anything at all? I think its an interesting subject indeed. Tamoxifen, it seems, it still a compound were still learning about. From its effects on IGF to its effects on PgR/ER.

Yea we truly are still learning a lot of stuff about it ..
I will have to go through some studies to try to see if any at least come up with any kinda of contestant numbers ..




Merc.