Fedor VS Roger

[nilrac]

One point worth mentioning, I think, is that the Couture who faced Brock was not the same man who beat Sylvia. He had a long lay off before he faced Brock, and he looked old and tired. I hope he can come back to form, but maybe he has had his day... ?

I do agree on the timing issue, as fighters, like any athletes, go through runs of high form and low form. This is just life.

In terms of Brock getting a title shot so quickly... money talks. And he is a hugely marketable fighter. And though his MMA record is shallow, he does have extensive college wrestling pedigree.

Personally I think Fedor could knock Brock out, but nobody can take Brock lightly. He is a big powerful dude with great base on the ground. If you have a guy outweighing you by 30 - 50Lbs and he has awesome basic positions and "lunch boxes" for fists as Rogan said (lol), then he is going to pose problems for even the best fighter.

[J-Dogg]

j-dog is making the strongest points in this thread.

no one is saying fedor isn't a top 3 HW, hell i don't think anyone has said he isn't number one in this thread.

the big argument is about rogers. guy is huge and powerful, but he is flabby, showed terrible conditioning against fedor, and poor technical skills (although i thought his ground game was much better than expected).

he got caught with a right early in round 2 (just missed getting tagged by the following left) and the knock out punch (which was totally awesome) hit him because he was in an orthodox stance with his left hand way low, not punching, not moving, against a power right hand puncher. that's just as amature as when bisping got KTFO by henderson for circling all fight to his left.

i like rogers, and think he has good tools, but he needs years of training and good conditioning to be a real top 10 fighter. he does dumb things standing and has no bjj or wresting background. guys like carwin and cain (who i think just make the top 10 if they are even in it) have massive wrestling backgrounds and have been in wresting matches hundreds if not thousands of times. a guy like rogers has been in 10 mma fights and maybe some street fights, but has a long long way to go to be up there.

I guess everyone can quote me on this, but I see Rogers as a bigger version and maybe a little more talented than Huston Alexander or even Soku.

Beat some cans, have some power punching to knock out a semi respectable opponet, but only to be exposed and lacking huge in certain area's to make you a formindable contender.

How do we even know that Rogers did not just get lucky again AA anyway? Can you honestly judge a fighters ability when he knocks a guy out in 22 seconds? Or did he just catch the guy?

We've seen very little of him on the ground, and we've not seen him make it 30 seconds through a round. His stamina is certainly suspect because of his size.

But everyone thinks he's the next big thing cause he caught AA in the first round. I'd be quicker to give him credit if he knocked him out in the 2nd or even late in the first.

IMO he could be AA only in the way he did. Catch him with a power punch early. If the fight made it into the 2nd round, with the guys a little tired, do you really think he'd be able to out box AA?

Throwing a guy in the top 5 for catching a guy with your 3rd punch, is just not justified IMO.

[quarry206]

another thing is all these fighters say he is number one in the world and p4p the best

GSP
BJ Penn
Randy
Vera
Bas Rutten
Sylvia
Randlemen
Shogun
Jake Shields
AA
Rampage-Fedor is the reason i dont fight at HW
FABER
...etc....

you know this is so so true, and alot of people forget this, all these greats say that fedor is the best. but for some reason avg watchers of UFC for some reason think they know better than the fighters themselves.... hell even brock said he wanted to fight fedor because fedor was the best.

[WHOADY4SHOADY]

j-dog is making the strongest points in this thread.

no one is saying fedor isn't a top 3 HW, hell i don't think anyone has said he isn't number one in this thread.

the big argument is about rogers. guy is huge and powerful, but he is flabby, showed terrible conditioning against fedor, and poor technical skills (although i thought his ground game was much better than expected).

he got caught with a right early in round 2 (just missed getting tagged by the following left) and the knock out punch (which was totally awesome) hit him because he was in an orthodox stance with his left hand way low, not punching, not moving, against a power right hand puncher. that's just as amature as when bisping got KTFO by henderson for circling all fight to his left.

i like rogers, and think he has good tools, but he needs years of training and good conditioning to be a real top 10 fighter. he does dumb things standing and has no bjj or wresting background. guys like carwin and cain (who i think just make the top 10 if they are even in it) have massive wrestling backgrounds and have been in wresting matches hundreds if not thousands of times. a guy like rogers has been in 10 mma fights and maybe some street fights, but has a long long way to go to be up there.

You forget that everyone including the greats lose technique when they are tired, and Rogers is by no means one of the greats yet. Almost all fighters do stupid things when they are gassing and or gassed.

[WHOADY4SHOADY]

I guess everyone can quote me on this, but I see Rogers as a bigger version and maybe a little more talented than Huston Alexander or even Soku.

Beat some cans, have some power punching to knock out a semi respectable opponet, but only to be exposed and lacking huge in certain area's to make you a formindable contender.

How do we even know that Rogers did not just get lucky again AA anyway? Can you honestly judge a fighters ability when he knocks a guy out in 22 seconds? Or did he just catch the guy?

We've seen very little of him on the ground, and we've not seen him make it 30 seconds through a round. His stamina is certainly suspect because of his size.

But everyone thinks he's the next big thing cause he caught AA in the first round. I'd be quicker to give him credit if he knocked him out in the 2nd or even late in the first.

IMO he could be AA only in the way he did. Catch him with a power punch early. If the fight made it into the 2nd round, with the guys a little tired, do you really think he'd be able to out box AA?

Throwing a guy in the top 5 for catching a guy with your 3rd punch, is just not justified IMO.

Now people are being hated on for knocking people out to early? What the hell is going on?

[icepick27]

I think that this was fedors best fight in a long time. And at no time in the fight was rodgers winning but ,you can't hide the fact that he got his nose broke ,held agaisnt the fence and pounded on the ground by a c mninius fighter at best ,what would happen if brett rodgers was a top 3 heavyweight or p-4p fighter ? Maybe a differnt outcome

[WHOADY4SHOADY]

I think that this was fedors best fight in a long time. And at no time in the fight was rodgers winning but ,you can't hide the fact that he got his nose broke ,held agaisnt the fence and pounded on the ground by a c mninius fighter at best ,what would happen if brett rodgers was a top 3 heavyweight or p-4p fighter ? Maybe a differnt outcome

Cro cop broke his nose too in their Pride fight, and Fedor Controlled the entire fight after the first round. Fedor just has a bitch body when it comes to taking damage, but it doesnt seem to afect him in any way negatively, so far that is.

[quarry206]

I think that this was fedors best fight in a long time. And at no time in the fight was rodgers winning but ,you can't hide the fact that he got his nose broke ,held agaisnt the fence and pounded on the ground by a c mninius fighter at best ,what would happen if brett rodgers was a top 3 heavyweight or p-4p fighter ? Maybe a differnt outcome

brett rogers is better than a C-minus... he is no brock or anything but i think its a far strech to say he isn't any good.

and as far as the ground game. fedor actually uses that alot, when a pure striker gets on top of him he allows them to pound on him so he can catch their arm.. which he did and came extremely close to getting an armbar in the rogers fight..

as far as the cage, i'll agree fedor needs to work on cage fighting, but for a first fight in a cage he did great i think

[Deltasaurus]

nose was fractured before the fight from sparring i with aleks ill get the source if u want it.
any if rogers is a c minus fighter than that makes carwin and cain c+

[Deltasaurus]

or waht cuz there is no way they are much better than him. rogers did better than AA Timmy or choi

[J-Dogg]

or waht cuz there is no way they are much better than him. rogers did better than AA Timmy or choi

I think AA did better, honestly AA was slapping Fedor around before he got too excited and when for a ****ing flying knee, lol.

And I certainly hope Bret is better than Choi. Just cause he's 7'1" does not mean he's any good.

Also, I think Carwin might be less than a C+ fighter. I'd give Cain more credit than Carwin because his wins over formitable fighters, were impressive. Carwin getting tooled for 2 minutes and catching Nappa with a hail mary hay maker puts him lower on the ranking list than Gonzaga who is probably not even on my top 10 HW list.

[roid_rage]

I think that this was fedors best fight in a long time. And at no time in the fight was rodgers winning but ,you can't hide the fact that he got his nose broke ,held agaisnt the fence and pounded on the ground by a c mninius fighter at best ,what would happen if brett rodgers was a top 3 heavyweight or p-4p fighter ? Maybe a differnt outcome

well, unless the guy on top of him is some mosnter nothing would've happen, if it was GSP or AS on top of him, he would've reversed the position extremely easy... dont see what difference woudl've made if the guy on top of him was a top 3 HW or p4p fighter. Not to mention that Rogers is by no means a c - fighter. Would you call carwin a c- fighter? would you call cain c- fighter, because certanly neighter of them have done better than rogers so far.

[southmadejd]

Not to mention that Rogers is by no means a c - fighter. Would you call carwin a c- fighter? would you call cain c- fighter, because certanly neighter of them have done better than rogers so far.

No he wouldn't call Carwin a C- fighter because Icepick has a hard on for Carwin.

Rogers beats AA extremely decisively and Carwin beats an overrated Gonzaga with a punch that he probably doesnt even remember throwing because he was damn near knocked out himself......yet people still think Carwin is a better fighter because he has wrestling experience. People can still be good at wrestling without ever wrestling in college. Just because we haven't really seen Rogers on the ground doesn't mean he doesn't have any ground skills. I was actually impressed with how he handled Fedor on the ground because I think Fedor has the fastest submissions out of any HW in MMA.

Also J-Dogg, AA was not landing any shots with Fedor. Everyone says he was whooping Fedor's ass but I have watched that fight plenty of times and Fedor slipped every single power shot Arlovski through at him.

[J-Dogg]

No he wouldn't call Carwin a C- fighter because Icepick has a hard on for Carwin.

Rogers beats AA extremely decisively and Carwin beats an overrated Gonzaga with a punch that he probably doesnt even remember throwing because he was damn near knocked out himself......yet people still think Carwin is a better fighter because he has wrestling experience. People can still be good at wrestling without ever wrestling in college. Just because we haven't really seen Rogers on the ground doesn't mean he doesn't have any ground skills. I was actually impressed with how he handled Fedor on the ground because I think Fedor has the fastest submissions out of any HW in MMA.

Also J-Dogg, AA was not landing any shots with Fedor. Everyone says he was whooping Fedor's ass but I have watched that fight plenty of times and Fedor slipped every single power shot Arlovski through at him.

Beating someone decisively is not catching them with the first hay maker you throw like Rogers did against AA. For all we know, his only win over a top 10 HW was just a lucky punchers chance. We've only seen Rogers out of the 2nd round twice, all we know is he has power behing what he throws which is hardly surprising for a 280lb guy that changed tires for a living.

I think it's an impressive, and fun victory, but it does not do much to prove him as a great fighter. After all, Huston Alexander knocked out Jardine in about the same time and we saw how far he went.

[roid_rage]

Beating someone decisively is not catching them with the first hay maker you throw like Rogers did against AA. For all we know, his only win over a top 10 HW was just a lucky punchers chance. We've only seen Rogers out of the 2nd round twice, all we know is he has power behing what he throws which is hardly surprising for a 280lb guy that changed tires for a living.

I think it's an impressive, and fun victory, but it does not do much to prove him as a great fighter. After all, Huston Alexander knocked out Jardine in about the same time and we saw how far he went.

Jardine is no AA and never ever was or will be close to achive what AA have in his Carrer.

[J-Dogg]

Jardine is no AA and never ever was or will be close to achive what AA have in his Carrer.

ugh, you never seem to understand the idea behind what I'm saying....instead you find a way to convince yourself you are right, by throwing out somthing out of context.

No where am I comparing the level of fighter AA is to, Jardine. Even though, I don't think AA is some super HW stud, but maybe he was at one time.

But I'm comparing the fasion in which Jardine lost to Alexander, to the fasion AA lost to Rogers. The idea behind this is, you can't judge the skill level of a fighter, in one 22 second fight vs. the only top 10 HW he ever fought.

Jardine would probably beat Huston 7 of 10 fights.

Gonzaga would beat Carwin 8 of 10 fights.

Both fights, the better fighters just got caught with a fairly early punch.

We could say the same for Rogets Vs. AA because he has so few fights against top contenders.

[roid_rage]

ok, my bad.