You'll want to read this!

[DS21]

Let me see your diet and training routine. Increase test to 1 gram next reload and I would go with enanthate or cypionate as it's less painful.

Some do better on tren enanthate as opposed to tren acetate so that's something to consider. You might try adding d-bol in the future if you stay with test/deca combo.

Training: I follow the 12 sets per muscle group, as you recommended. I always shot for 8 reps. I don't do too much cardio, if any, since I've been haveing a hard time gaining weight.

Mon- Chest
Tue- Back
Wed- off or cardio
Thur- Shoulders
Fri- Arms (10 sets)
Sat- Legs
Sun- off or cardio

Diet M-Sat:
6am
1 cups of oats, cinnamon and 2 splenda packs
50 gram protein shake. It's a blend of Whey, Egg and Casein

6:30
Pre workout drink 20 grams carbs

7am- Train

8:30
50 grams of carbs by means of waxy maze
50 gram protein shake, same blend
All vitamins will be taken here as well

10:30 (I buy 2 foot longs from subway everyday and split it up into 4's)
6 inch wheat sub, double meat chicken breast, salt and pepper with vinager (according to website, this is 50grm protein and 52 grams carbs)

12:30
Another 6 inch sub

2:30
Another 6 inch sub

4:30-5
The last 6 inch sub

7:30 (dinner with family)
Usually, 2 large grilled chicken breast with large baked potato and 1-2 cups steamed veggies. Sometime meat changes, but only if my wife runs out of chicken. They eat something else.

9:30-10
32 grams of protein shake, same blend

I've been on this diet for well over 2 years. I use tabasco sauce for flavor a lot of the times.

Sundays are my days off so the subs are not eaten. I still eat 5 or 6 meals that day, with the last one being a shake.

During the deload, I eat the subs as single meat and only one chicken breast for dinner. I also cut the morning shakes to 32 grams instead of 50.

I tried upping my carbs to 100grm pre and post training during this last reload but felt more of a fat gain, then a muscle gain, during the month I tried it. Where do you think I should add more calories? I also don't like to eat fat, as I feel I grow better with carbs but not completely against it, if you think it will help?

I'm going to start the test on Sunday but maybe at 700mg/week instead of 1grm? I have about 100grms of prop brewed, so I will be running it for quit some time. I was also planning on running NPP this time at 700mg/week.

Let me know if you need any other info?

Thanks again for your time!

[untold]

edited

[untold]

edited and warned. please read our rules before making another post

-PT

[Ronnie Rowland]

....

[ricky23]

hi ronnie, ive been taking 750mg of sustanon, 600mg deca a week and 40mg dianabol daily for a week and a half now. i weigh 90kg with relatively low bf and have a high protein/cal diet (400-500g protein, same carbs, 150g fats) i could really use some advice on how to cycle dosages. im planning on gaining as much mass as possible and have already seen a decent increase - i know the sus and deca will take 4 weeks before results become evident so its probably the dbol im seein. im also unsure about the length of the cycle - you say 8 weeks but other experienced users say that the first cycle should be the longest - ive read dave palumbo suggest a 24 week split of test coupled with a different compound for 8 weeks at a time. honestly, your advice would be appreciated. thanks.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Training: I follow the 12 sets per muscle group, as you recommended. I always shot for 8 reps. I don't do too much cardio, if any, since I've been haveing a hard time gaining weight. ( I recommend not going past 12 sets. Some grow better on 8-9 very intense work sets per week. You should try cutting back and see what happens.)
Mon- Chest
Tue- Back
Wed- off or cardio
Thur- Shoulders
Fri- Arms (10 sets)
Sat- Legs
Sun- off or cardio

Diet M-Sat:
6am
1 cups of oats, cinnamon and 2 splenda packs
50 gram protein shake. It's a blend of Whey, Egg and Casein

6:30
Pre workout drink 20 grams carbs (DROP THIS MEAL)

7am- Train

8:30
50 grams of carbs by means of waxy maze
50 gram protein shake, same blend
All vitamins will be taken here as well

10:30 (I buy 2 foot longs from subway everyday and split it up into 4's)
6 inch wheat sub, double meat chicken breast, salt and pepper with vinager (according to website, this is 50grm protein and 52 grams carbs)

12:30
Another 6 inch sub

2:30
Another 6 inch sub

4:30-5
The last 6 inch sub

7:30 (dinner with family)
Usually, 2 large grilled chicken breast with large baked potato and 1-2 cups steamed veggies. Sometime meat changes, but only if my wife runs out of chicken. They eat something else. (ADD 3 TABLE SPOONS OF EXTRA VIRGIN OLIVE OIL ON BAKED POTATO FOR WEIGHT GAIN)

9:30-10
32 grams of protein shake, same blend (add table spoon of smart balance peanut butter for weight gain)

I've been on this diet for well over 2 years. I use tabasco sauce for flavor a lot of the times.

Sundays are my days off so the subs are not eaten. I still eat 5 or 6 meals that day, with the last one being a shake.

During the deload, I eat the subs as single meat and only one chicken breast for dinner. I also cut the morning shakes to 32 grams instead of 50.

I tried upping my carbs to 100grm pre and post training during this last reload but felt more of a fat gain, then a muscle gain, during the month I tried it. (this is why you need to add more healthy fats in your diet) Where do you think I should add more calories? I also don't like to eat fat, as I feel I grow better with carbs but not completely against it, if you think it will help? (FATS HELP BUILD MUSCLE WHERE AS CARBS ARE MOSTLY USED FOR FUEL)

I'm going to start the test on Sunday but maybe at 700mg/week instead of 1grm? I have about 100grms of prop brewed, so I will be running it for quit some time. I was also planning on running NPP this time at 700mg/week.

Let me know if you need any other info?

Thanks again for your time!

Answers above! You may need cabergoline with that much NPP.

[Ronnie Rowland]

hi ronnie, ive been taking 750mg of sustanon, 600mg deca a week and 40mg dianabol daily for a week and a half now. i weigh 90kg with relatively low bf and have a high protein/cal diet (400-500g protein, same carbs, 150g fats) i could really use some advice on how to cycle dosages. im planning on gaining as much mass as possible and have already seen a decent increase - i know the sus and deca will take 4 weeks before results become evident so its probably the dbol im seein. im also unsure about the length of the cycle - you say 8 weeks but other experienced users say that the first cycle should be the longest - ive read dave palumbo suggest a 24 week split of test coupled with a different compound for 8 weeks at a time. honestly, your advice would be appreciated. thanks.

I suggest a 20 week cycle for a first time user (8 week reload/2 week deload/8 week reload/2 week deload before coming off completely and doing and doing pct). Dave is a friend of mine and a very smart one at that! But, he and I part ways on this issue. I have my reasons. Let me explain-According to William Llewellyn's book-ANABOLICS 9th edition and I quote "ROTATING STEROIDS DOES NOT PREVENT RECEPTOR DOWNREGULATION. STEROIDS ALL WORK PRIMARILY BY ATTACHING TO AND ACTIVATING THE SAME RECEPTOR. AS SUCH, YOU DO NOT GAIN ANYTHING BY SWITCHING TO A NEW COMPOUND THAT WORKS VIA STIMULATING THE SAME RECEPTOR. IF TOLERANCE WERE INDUCED BY ONE AAS COMPOUND, IT WOULD BE EXTENDED TO ALL COMPOUNDS. THE PLATEAUUS EFFECT THAT IS NOTICED 6-8 WEEKS INTO MOST CYCLES IS POORLY UNDERSTOOD, BUT LIKELY RELATED TO NEW METABOLIC LIMITS PLACED ON THE MUSCLE CELLS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF A CERTAIN ASS DOSAGE, NOT INSENSITIVITY TO AAS. CLASSIC DOWNREGULATION DOES NOT OCCUR WITH THESE DRUGS, AND EVEN IF IT DID, ROTATING STEROIDS WOULD NOT PREVENT IT."

Okay, I'll add some more information myself as to what I believe. I think new studies show that it's an increase in myostatin levels that are the main causes of steroids not working well after 8 weeks-hence the reason to deload for 2 weeks after having been on for 8 weeks.

I also believe that rotating steroids does not help with gains like Llewellyn's states but I do think it can help prevent side effects if you are prone. For example, some people can barely handle tren for 8 weeks. The thoughts of using tren for another grueling 8 weeks after a 2 week deload is not reasonable. For these people, throwing in a different anabolic like deca for the next 8 week reload would be idea. Not that changing coumpounds will provide more gains but it can provide less sides. Then the next reload they could go back to tren if they wanted.

With Slingshot Training you train in 10 week phases. Here's an example:

Phase 1-
Week 1-8 (RELOAD)= 750 MGS OF TEST SUSTANON PER WEEK/400 MGS OF DECA PER WEEK/25 MGS OF D-BOL DAILY
Week 9-10 (DELOAD)= 300 mgs of test

Phase 2 -
Week 11-18 (RELOAD)= 1 GRAM OF TEST SUSTANON WEEKLY/600 MGS OF DECA WEEKLY/50 MGS OF D-BOL DAILY
Week 19-20 (DELOAD)= 500 mgs of test

Phase 3-Dosages of test could be increased to 1250 a week, compounds could be changed, or you could run a small dose cycle of test only at about 500 per week for 3 rd reload and then drop it down to 200 for 2 week deload to give the body a break before hitting it hard again for a couple of 10 week phases. There are many options!

NOTE: It's okay to run long drawn out cycles such as 24 weeks when cutting but not the best plan when bulking. When cutting you are looking at muscle maintenance as opposed to making further gains-hence increasing myostatin levels after 8 weeks of being on aas would no be a problem.

[DS21]

Answers above! You may need cabergoline with that much NPP.

In regards to the fat consumption, I was always under the impression that fat can't build muscle? I thought carbs and fat were protein spearing foods, that allowed the protein to remain a protein so it could repair the muscles. Carbs were used as energy, as you stated, as well as to replenish glucose. And fat was used for energy, as well as hormone balance. And protein is what really builds/repairs muscle. I don't quit understand how fat can help with muscle building? If it can, then I am more then willing to consume it, I would just like to know how it builds muscle.

The 6:30 pre work out shake is an energy drink with Nitric Oxide and Kre Alkalyn. I need my energy

I have caber and I use/need it with Deca, thanks for looking out with that one!

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to the fat consumption answer.

[ricky23]

I suggest a 20 week cycle for a first time user (8 week reload/2 week deload/8 week reload/2 week deload before coming off completely and doing and doing pct). Dave is a friend of mine and a very smart one at that! But, he and I part ways on this issue. I have my reasons. Let me explain-According to William Llewellyn's book-ANABOLICS 9th edition and I quote "ROTATING STEROIDS DOES NOT PREVENT RECEPTOR DOWNREGULATION. STEROIDS ALL WORK PRIMARILY BY ATTACHING TO AND ACTIVATING THE SAME RECEPTOR. AS SUCH, YOU DO NOT GAIN ANYTHING BY SWITCHING TO A NEW COMPOUND THAT WORKS VIA STIMULATING THE SAME RECEPTOR. IF TOLERANCE WERE INDUCED BY ONE AAS COMPOUND, IT WOULD BE EXTENDED TO ALL COMPOUNDS. THE PLATEAUUS EFFECT THAT IS NOTICED 6-8 WEEKS INTO MOST CYCLES IS POORLY UNDERSTOOD, BUT LIKELY RELATED TO NEW METABOLIC LIMITS PLACED ON THE MUSCLE CELLS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF A CERTAIN ASS DOSAGE, NOT INSENSITIVITY TO AAS. CLASSIC DOWNREGULATION DOES NOT OCCUR WITH THESE DRUGS, AND EVEN IF IT DID, ROTATING STEROIDS WOULD NOT PREVENT IT."

Okay, I'll add some more information myself as to what I believe. I think new studies show that it's an increase in myostatin levels that are the main causes of steroids not working well after 8 weeks-hence the reason to deload for 2 weeks after having been on for 8 weeks.

I also believe that rotating steroids does not help with gains like Llewellyn's states but I do think it can help prevent side effects if you are prone. For example, some people can barely handle tren for 8 weeks. The thoughts of using tren for another grueling 8 weeks after a 2 week deload is not reasonable. For these people, throwing in a different anabolic like deca for the next 8 week reload would be idea. Not that changing coumpounds will provide more gains but it can provide less sides. Then the next reload they could go back to tren if they wanted.

With Slingshot Training you train in 10 week phases. Here's an example:

Phase 1-
Week 1-8 (RELOAD)= 750 MGS OF TEST SUSTANON PER WEEK/400 MGS OF DECA PER WEEK/25 MGS OF D-BOL DAILY
Week 9-10 (DELOAD)= 300 mgs of test

Phase 2 -
Week 11-18 (RELOAD)= 1 GRAM OF TEST SUSTANON WEEKLY/600 MGS OF DECA WEEKLY/50 MGS OF D-BOL DAILY
Week 19-20 (DELOAD)= 500 mgs of test

Phase 3-Dosages of test could be increased to 1250 a week, compounds could be changed, or you could run a small dose cycle of test only at about 500 per week for 3 rd reload and then drop it down to 200 for 2 week deload to give the body a break before hitting it hard again for a couple of 10 week phases. There are many options!

NOTE: It's okay to run long drawn out cycles such as 24 weeks when cutting but not the best plan when bulking. When cutting you are looking at muscle maintenance as opposed to making further gains-hence increasing myostatin levels after 8 weeks of being on aas would no be a problem.

thanks ronnie, i really appreciate your advice and i'm going to follow the plan you've suggested as it confirms much of the research i've done on the subject - you're right, there are many options and thats what i found confusing. the only alteration im going to make is replacing dbol with anadrol for the second phase. thanks again

[VASCULAR VINCE]

I suggest a 20 week cycle for a first time user (8 week reload/2 week deload/8 week reload/2 week deload before coming off completely and doing and doing pct). Dave is a friend of mine and a very smart one at that! But, he and I part ways on this issue. I have my reasons. Let me explain-According to William Llewellyn's book-ANABOLICS 9th edition and I quote "ROTATING STEROIDS DOES NOT PREVENT RECEPTOR DOWNREGULATION. STEROIDS ALL WORK PRIMARILY BY ATTACHING TO AND ACTIVATING THE SAME RECEPTOR. AS SUCH, YOU DO NOT GAIN ANYTHING BY SWITCHING TO A NEW COMPOUND THAT WORKS VIA STIMULATING THE SAME RECEPTOR. IF TOLERANCE WERE INDUCED BY ONE AAS COMPOUND, IT WOULD BE EXTENDED TO ALL COMPOUNDS. THE PLATEAUUS EFFECT THAT IS NOTICED 6-8 WEEKS INTO MOST CYCLES IS POORLY UNDERSTOOD, BUT LIKELY RELATED TO NEW METABOLIC LIMITS PLACED ON THE MUSCLE CELLS UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF A CERTAIN ASS DOSAGE, NOT INSENSITIVITY TO AAS. CLASSIC DOWNREGULATION DOES NOT OCCUR WITH THESE DRUGS, AND EVEN IF IT DID, ROTATING STEROIDS WOULD NOT PREVENT IT."

Okay, I'll add some more information myself as to what I believe. I think new studies show that it's an increase in myostatin levels that are the main causes of steroids not working well after 8 weeks-hence the reason to deload for 2 weeks after having been on for 8 weeks.

I also believe that rotating steroids does not help with gains like Llewellyn's states but I do think it can help prevent side effects if you are prone. For example, some people can barely handle tren for 8 weeks. The thoughts of using tren for another grueling 8 weeks after a 2 week deload is not reasonable. For these people, throwing in a different anabolic like deca for the next 8 week reload would be idea. Not that changing coumpounds will provide more gains but it can provide less sides. Then the next reload they could go back to tren if they wanted.

With Slingshot Training you train in 10 week phases. Here's an example:

Phase 1-
Week 1-8 (RELOAD)= 750 MGS OF TEST SUSTANON PER WEEK/400 MGS OF DECA PER WEEK/25 MGS OF D-BOL DAILY
Week 9-10 (DELOAD)= 300 mgs of test

Phase 2 -
Week 11-18 (RELOAD)= 1 GRAM OF TEST SUSTANON WEEKLY/600 MGS OF DECA WEEKLY/50 MGS OF D-BOL DAILY
Week 19-20 (DELOAD)= 500 mgs of test

Phase 3-Dosages of test could be increased to 1250 a week, compounds could be changed, or you could run a small dose cycle of test only at about 500 per week for 3 rd reload and then drop it down to 200 for 2 week deload to give the body a break before hitting it hard again for a couple of 10 week phases. There are many options!

NOTE: It's okay to run long drawn out cycles such as 24 weeks when cutting but not the best plan when bulking. When cutting you are looking at muscle maintenance as opposed to making further gains-hence increasing myostatin levels after 8 weeks of being on aas would no be a problem.

damn..good..shit..ronnie!!!!!what's your thoughts combining masteron-test...offseason???cant do the tren thing..happy new year my man!!!!!!!!

[Charlie6]

Hey Ronnie, good stuff, can't wait to try this out asap

The only thing I was wondering was, if you do a two week deload and knock test e back down to hrt dose and cut deca completely (which I'm assuming I should do), wouldn't it be pointless, as it takes longer than two weeks for the deca ester (and possibly the enant ester) to leave the body (thus allowing downregulation)? Because after those two weeks of deload, you would bump it all back up to reload, right?

thanks much

[Big Oz]

First off, I want to thank you for this great information. I have done about 10 or more cycles and I never thought one can run a cycle like this (slingshot). I guess most of us have been brainwashed into the stereotypical time on = time off style of juicing. My stats are 25 yrs old, 5'10 and am currently at about 190lbs with about 12%bf (estimation) but have been as heavy as 225lbs. I fell down a flight of stairs about 8 months ago and messed up a shoulder (everything is fine now) and basically had to start all over. I took a short cycle about 2 months ago and got back into it somewhat. Well on to my question. I have never really tried this slingshot approach, and am a bit confused. Im going to post what I feel is appropriate, and was hoping you could critique/give me some advice. I was planning on running the following.... * I was also thinking of throwing some clomid and nolvadex during my deload phases at 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ed but I don't know if thats the right thing to do. Please help!

PHASE 1

reload week 1 - 8
test enenthate 750 mg/week
dbol 20mg/day (1-4 weeks)
deca 450 mg/week

deload week 9-10
test enenthate 300mg/week
hcg 2500 iu eod for 2 weeks

PHASE 2

reload week 11-18
test enanthate 1000mg/week
deca 450mg/week
dbol 30mg (week 1-4)

deload week 19-20
test enanthate 600mg/week
hcg 2500 iu eod for 2 weeks

Two things confuse me. First off, how long can I keep reloading and deloading without stopping? Second, where does a full PCT come into play and how long should it be ran for and with which drugs. Also during PCT do I work out moderately or every day. And once PCT is completed how long before my next reload?

Thanks in advance. This is by far the best info I have ran into in a long time!

[Ronnie Rowland]

damn..good..shit..ronnie!!!!!what's your thoughts combining masteron-test...offseason???cant do the tren thing..happy new year my man!!!!!!!!

Test and Masteron is fine.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hey Ronnie, good stuff, can't wait to try this out asap

The only thing I was wondering was, if you do a two week deload and knock test e back down to hrt dose and cut deca completely (which I'm assuming I should do), wouldn't it be pointless, as it takes longer than two weeks for the deca ester (and possibly the enant ester) to leave the body (thus allowing downregulation)? Because after those two weeks of deload, you would bump it all back up to reload, right?

thanks much

You want some downregulation to occur during a 2 week deload in order to allow myostatin levels to normalize. Then you can come back and make better gains during next 8 week reload by bumping things up!

[Ronnie Rowland]

First off, I want to thank you for this great information. I have done about 10 or more cycles and I never thought one can run a cycle like this (slingshot). I guess most of us have been brainwashed into the stereotypical time on = time off style of juicing. My stats are 25 yrs old, 5'10 and am currently at about 190lbs with about 12%bf (estimation) but have been as heavy as 225lbs. I fell down a flight of stairs about 8 months ago and messed up a shoulder (everything is fine now) and basically had to start all over. I took a short cycle about 2 months ago and got back into it somewhat. Well on to my question. I have never really tried this slingshot approach, and am a bit confused. Im going to post what I feel is appropriate, and was hoping you could critique/give me some advice. I was planning on running the following.... * I was also thinking of throwing some clomid and nolvadex during my deload phases at 50mg clomid and 20mg nolva ed but I don't know if thats the right thing to do. Please help! (You could run 500 ius of hcg per week during reloads or 1500 per week during deloads. Or you could wait and run HCG,NOLVA,CLOMID after 2 consecutive reloads. Several options are available!)
PHASE 1

reload week 1 - 8
test enenthate 750 mg/week
dbol 20mg/day (1-4 weeks)
deca 450 mg/week

deload week 9-10
test enenthate 300mg/week
hcg 2500 iu eod for 2 weeks

PHASE 2

reload week 11-18
test enanthate 1000mg/week
deca 450mg/week
dbol 30mg (week 1-4)

deload week 19-20
test enanthate 600mg/week
hcg 2500 iu eod for 2 weeks

Two things confuse me. First off, how long can I keep reloading and deloading without stopping? (You can do it for as long as you desire.) Second, where does a full PCT come into play and how long should it be ran for and with which drugs. (Full PCT can be done whenever you decide with hcg, nolva and clomid. For many recreational trainers who are young it's a good idea to run a full pct for 4 weeks after a 20 week cycle (2 slingshot phases). Also during PCT do I work out moderately or every day. (If you start full PCT during deload of second phase and then move into reload during third phase for another 2 weeks) Once PCT is completed how long before my next reload? If you start at week 19 during second deload the pct would end at the beginning of the third week in the following reload. At that point you could do two things:

1) Finish out 6 weeks worth of reloading and 2 more weeks of deloading before going back on aas. (Gives the body more of a break)

2) You could begin a new reload phase while using steroids immediatedly following 4 weeks of full pct. (Gives the body more size)
Thanks in advance. This is by far the best info I have ran into in a long time!

Answers above in bold!

[Big Oz]

thank you!

[Big Oz]

I also wanted to know if you thought the above slingshot cycle looked good in my original post .Ronnie when you say run 500 iu a week of hcg during reloads or 1500 during deloads, do you mean a total of 500 or 1500 a week, or that amount eod?. Sorry for the bombardment of questions, you just seem to know your shit

[Ronnie Rowland]

I also wanted to know if you thought the above slingshot cycle looked good in my original post .Ronnie when you say run 500 iu a week of hcg during reloads or 1500 during deloads, do you mean a total of 500 or 1500 a week, or that amount eod?. Sorry for the bombardment of questions, you just seem to know your shit

I would increase d-bol to 50 mgs per day during second reload. Everything else anabolic wise looks good.


HCG DOSAGES:


RELOADS 500 for the entire week during reloads (500 in one shot every 7 days)

DELOADS 1500 for entire week during deloads (1500 total for entire week divided into twice a week injections at 750 each)

FULL PCT 2500 eod for first 2 weeks/clomid is 50 mgs taken twice per day for 4 weeks/nolvadex is 20 mgs per day for 4 weeks.

[Charlie6]

You want some downregulation to occur during a 2 week deload in order to allow myostatin levels to normalize. Then you can come back and make better gains during next 8 week reload by bumping things up!

Thanks for the reply. So you're saying that the two week (small) downregulation (small b/c the esters/drugs aren't completely out of me because they are long esters) will be enough to accomplish this small myostatin level normalization?

[guillermo]

i have a question i am trying to get cut up (definitions) and i want something to help me get it fast wats the best thing that u recomend i need some thing oral and that wont show on regular dt can u help me with it thank u

[anddyboy]

Hi Ron,
Im 44 years old been using steroids on and off for over 20years, without the gains I really wanted.

Just started using HGH as i was told because of my age it would really help, im taking a bottle a day = 8iu of ********** i would like to know what steroids i shouild take to loose fat and cut up as best i can

NOTE - I have taken approx 500 iu,s to date and all my joints are giving me growing pains as much info as poss would be agreat help

[BigGuns76]

Hi Ron and everyone else reading this. First off, let me say that this is my first post on here and I hope that I'm posting correctly and in the right place. I'm a newbie to both online forums and to AAS cycles. I plan on doing my first cycle within 2 weeks.

My stats: 5'4, 172lbs, 18% body fat.

I plan on doing a 12 week cycle of 300 mgs of Tri Tren per week (200mg/ml - 50mg of Tren A, 50mgs Tren H, 100mgs Tren E) and weeks 8 - 12 I'll add 50mgs per day of Winstrol tabs. After week 12, I'll do 3 weeks of Clomid PCT. I've heard that I need to run Test with Tren in order to counter the sexual side effects of the tren.

My question is do I absolutely need to include Test in my cycle with the Tri Tren? My goal is be ripped by the summer and put on lean muscle mass during my cycle. I'm hesistant about adding Test to my cycle - Can I still look lean while on Test? Also, please keep in mind that I am dieting - 5 meals a day, 150 grams of protein total, hardly any carbs, about 15 grams of fat with each meal.

Any advice would be appreciated.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hi Ron and everyone else reading this. First off, let me say that this is my first post on here and I hope that I'm posting correctly and in the right place. I'm a newbie to both online forums and to AAS cycles. I plan on doing my first cycle within 2 weeks.

My stats: 5'4, 172lbs, 18% body fat.

I plan on doing a 12 week cycle of 300 mgs of Tri Tren per week (200mg/ml - 50mg of Tren A, 50mgs Tren H, 100mgs Tren E) and weeks 8 - 12 I'll add 50mgs per day of Winstrol tabs. After week 12, I'll do 3 weeks of Clomid PCT. I've heard that I need to run Test with Tren in order to counter the sexual side effects of the tren.

My question is do I absolutely need to include Test in my cycle with the Tri Tren? My goal is be ripped by the summer and put on lean muscle mass during my cycle. I'm hesistant about adding Test to my cycle - Can I still look lean while on Test? Also, please keep in mind that I am dieting - 5 meals a day, 150 grams of protein total, hardly any carbs, about 15 grams of fat with each meal.

Any advice would be appreciated.

I wanted to get to this post first. You do not need something as strong as tren for your first cycle. That's a big mistake IMO and every vet on this baord is going to tell you the same! For a first cycle, test is all you really need at 500 mgs per week for 8 weeks. Yes, you can still look lean on test. The key is dropping the carbs!

Now if you are dead set on adding something to the test go with winnie but keep in mind winstrol causes joint pain for some people. It's best to start out slow and see how you are going to react.

[BigGuns76]

I wanted to get to this post first. You do not need something as strong as tren for your first cycle. That's a big mistake IMO and every vet on this baord is going to tell you the same! For a first cycle, test is all you really need at 500 mgs per week for 8 weeks. Yes, you can still look lean on test. The key is dropping the carbs!

Now if you are dead set on adding something to the test go with winnie but keep in mind winstrol causes joint pain for some people. It's best to start out slow and see how you are going to react.

Thanks for the good advice. I'll use 500 mgs of Test Enanthate for 8 weeks, plus the winnie. One last question -Should I use Tamoxifen or some other anti-estrogen while on the Test?

[guillermo]

ok i order tren winn and clen right cuz i want to get cut up you think this will help and how much should i take a day can u help me with this i will really apreaciated

[Ronnie Rowland]

Thanks for the good advice. I'll use 500 mgs of Test Enanthate for 8 weeks, plus the winnie. One last question -Should I use Tamoxifen or some other anti-estrogen while on the Test?

Use anti-es only if you start showing signs of gyno. Anti-es are best left for pre-contest. When you combine anti-es with winstrol you greatly increase your risk of doing permanent damage to your joints from all the drying out.

[Ronnie Rowland]

thanks for the reply. So you're saying that the two week (small) downregulation (small b/c the esters/drugs aren't completely out of me because they are long esters) will be enough to accomplish this small myostatin level normalization?

yes!

[Ronnie Rowland]

i have a question i am trying to get cut up (definitions) and i want something to help me get it fast wats the best thing that u recomend i need some thing oral and that wont show on regular dt can u help me with it thank u

You're best bet is winstrol and/or anavar along with a low carb/low fat diet.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hi Ron,
Im 44 years old been using steroids on and off for over 20years, without the gains I really wanted.

Just started using HGH as i was told because of my age it would really help, im taking a bottle a day = 8iu of ********** i would like to know what steroids i shouild take to loose fat and cut up as best i can

NOTE - I have taken approx 500 iu,s to date and all my joints are giving me growing pains as much info as poss would be agreat help

I think you should cut the GH down to 4 ius per day divided into 2 shots and see if the joint pain dissapates. Regarding the effectiveness of GH, it's not always how much you use per day,as it is how long you use it. Some people can only take 2ius per day as anymore cause severe joint pain.

IMO test and tren is best for cutting down. Clenbuterol is also a good addition and some t-3 would work nicely with the GH/Clen combo.

Diet will play the largest role so reduce carbs and fats as needed while keeping protein pretty high.

[Ronnie Rowland]

ok i order tren winn and clen right cuz i want to get cut up you think this will help and how much should i take a day can u help me with this i will really apreaciated

You do not want to run tren without some testosterone in the mix or your libido will die.

What's your cycle history and I will tell you where to start.

[guillermo]

i shot some to get big for a few months i forgot the name then i took some pills name stallion for another few moths i got to the point that i wanted to be but i just want the cuts now like the definitions and i want to have it soon but i do get drug test alot so i dont want to show it but if there is anything that i can take besides that tren winn clen let me know but remember i want results soon can u tell me what to buy i will be thankful and trust me apreacited everything u told me well i hope to hear from u

[guillermo]

if i take this winstrol and the anavar how much i have to take i notice the var give me strenght thats perfect and that winstrol help me cut up and strenght thats good so can u tell me how to take it thanks and its winn and var right thanks

[Ronnie Rowland]

if i take this winstrol and the anavar how much i have to take i notice the var give me strenght thats perfect and that winstrol help me cut up and strenght thats good so can u tell me how to take it thanks and its winn and var right thanks

Injectable versions of test will not show up in drug screen nor will the oral form (andriol). You will lose sex drive if some form of test is not used. You do not need a lot but I would go with 200-300 mgs per week (1 cc injection) in order to maintain sex drive.

Use 25 mgs of winstrol per day and 20 mgs of var along with 300 mgs of test enanthate and you will get hard with the proper diet/cardio. You could use 300 mgs of andriol (oral test) per day but it's expensive and harder on the liver.

[binsser]

brilliant ur a star m8 im gona have a go at this reload /deload ill let u know what happens bud chrs!

[The Observer]

Ron, first I would like to say thanks for the info and answers you have been giving. I read practically everything in this thread and got some great info. I really have to break this mental thing about do too many sets.....which is harder than I can imagine. I'm gonna be on Test 500mg, Deca 400mg, and D-bol 35mg for 4 weeks to jumpstart my cycle. I have my heart set on this specific cycle god know why. It's listed as the Novice 2-1 cycle on the front page here. It also states to take Nolvadex and Vitamin B-6 each day for the whole cycle, do you agree? If I do this, when would you recommend I stack in a 4 week of winstol? Would it be better to stack in Week 11? I'd drop the d-bol at this time.

[otto08]

hey man thanks for the orientation, i would like to ask you whit kind of steroid/anabolic would be good for me if I'm a beginner. i done t-bombII, creatine and tex two years ago. that really help me but i stopped going to the gym and loose everything. so whit one should i try first?

[Ronnie Rowland]

ron, first i would like to say thanks for the info and answers you have been giving. I read practically everything in this thread and got some great info. I really have to break this mental thing about do too many sets.....which is harder than i can imagine. i've been where you are in terms of wanting to do more sets thinking more would make me grow. Boy was i wrong! I've also been on the other side of the fence hoping a few sets per week on a permanent basis would actually work in terms of making my muscle bigger. Boy was i wrong again! I can assure you 12 intense work sets per body part is the most one should do and some do better with 8-9 sets performed once a week on major body parts. I'm gonna be on test 500mg, deca 400mg, and d-bol 35mg for 4 weeks to jumpstart my cycle. I have my heart set on this specific cycle god know why. It's listed as the novice 2-1 cycle on the front page here. It also states to take nolvadex and vitamin b-6 each day for the whole cycle, do you agree? i would not take nolvadex and a good multivitamin would be better than b-6 alone. If you are prone to gyno get some arimidex and run it eod. If i do this, when would you recommend i stack in a 4 week of winstol? Would it be better to stack in week 11? I'd drop the d-bol at this time. i would start the winstrol on week 5 of your 8 week reload and run it for the last 4 weeks since d-bol will be dropped after first 4 weeks. During 2 week deload simply run a small amount of test as a bridge so myostatin levels can decrease before doing another 8 week reload.

answers above in bold.

[Ronnie Rowland]

hey man thanks for the orientation, i would like to ask you whit kind of steroid/anabolic would be good for me if i'm a beginner. I done t-bombii, creatine and tex two years ago. That really help me but i stopped going to the gym and loose everything. So whit one should i try first?

test enanthate or cypionate at 500-600 mgs per week.

[The Observer]

You're the best, thanks.

I actually been following the 12 set rule for everything and I have seen my arms and shoulders increase in size. Except chest I end up doing 12 sets for each area (decline 8 sets, incline 12 sets, flat 12, and 4 sets of flys). It's something I really need to try and change.

It's the way I was thought by my uncles who are in amazing shape. One being over 50 years old and still does over 125 sets in one session! With most of them being full on no BS.

[Ronnie Rowland]

you're the best, thanks.

I actually been following the 12 set rule for everything and i have seen my arms and shoulders increase in size. Except chest i end up doing 12 sets for each area (decline 8 sets, incline 12 sets, flat 12, and 4 sets of flys). It's something i really need to try and change. OMG.....!!!!yes you do need to change your chest training!!!!!do 4 sets of decline press, 4 sets of incline press and 4 sets of flat flyes. Your chest will get larger/stronger and your rotator cuffs will thank you

it's the way i was thought by my uncles who are in amazing shape. One being over 50 years old and still does over 125 sets in one session! With most of them being full on no bs. remember that a guy can be big even though he's training wrong due to having good genetics. No one does 125 sets these days as its a complete waste of time and counter productive

answers above in bold.

Also, I want to add that you can totally isolate your upper pecs from your lower pecs. Here's an article you may want to read-I have believed that low degree incline help target the upper part of the pecs, but flat and decline also work this region.

Here is an article backing up what I say-

Quote:
Effects of Variations of the Bench Press Exercise on the EMG Activity of Five Shoulder Muscles
Barnett, Chris; Kippers, Vaughan; Turner, Peter
The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research November 1995 - Volume 9 - Issue 4

Abstract
This experiment investigated the effects of varying bench inclination and hand spacing on the EMG activity of five muscles acting at the shoulder joint. Six male weight trainers performed presses under four conditions of trunk inclination and two of hand spacing at 80% of their predetermined max. Preamplified surface EMG electrodes were placed over the five muscles in question. The EMG signals during the 2-sec lift indicated some significant effects of trunk inclination and hand spacing. The sternocostal head of the pectoralis major was more active during the press from a horizontal bench than from a decline bench. Also, the clavicular head of the pectoralis major was no more active during the incline bench press than during the horizontal one, but it was less active during the decline bench press. The clavicular head of the pectoralis major was more active with a narrow hand spacing. Anterior deltoid activity tended to increase as trunk inclination increased. The long head of the triceps brachii was more active during the decline and flat bench presses than the other two conditions, and was also more active with a narrow hand spacing. Latissimus dorsi exhibited low activity in all conditions.


My thoughts as a personal trainer for over 23 years: Upper chest development is mostly determined by genetics. If you have the potential to build a big upper chest then the standard incline press will in fact make it bigger. Flat presses and declines will also hit the upper chest area but to a lesser degree. If you have the genetics to build upper pecs then you can get bigger upper pecs using the flat press than someone who uses incline presses and does not have the genetics in that area!

Moving on-those who do not have good upper chest genetics do better using less of an incline on the incline press. About 15-20 degrees is perfect for most. I like the smith machine. The standard incline works mostly the front delts for those not gifted with a big upper chest.

I gain the my most overall size in my chest using a 15-20 degree decline press. I am not gifted in this area but have brought in up substantially. The chest is actually considered a small muscle group not a large one like legs and back. Anything over 12 intense work sets is a waste of time! I've never seen anyone bring up a weak body part (chest included) by doing more than 12 sets or trying to use more weight than they can handle in good form by way of cheat reps. Your either born with it or not! Some with freakish genetics can do too many sets or use poor form and still have a big chest but neither option is best for stimulating the deep type-2 muscle fibers responsible for most of your muscle size. In fact, most freakish bodybuilder's after they got older have told me they would have had even better development and be living without joint pain if they had used better form and less volume.