Obama on healthcare bill

[Kratos]

If one child has died (or unnecessarily suffering) simply because the parents can not afford access to readily available medical technology that could have prevented this, then that one case is enough evidence of a problem.

I .

very touching appeal to emotions rather then facts
if we can save just one child...I need my box of tissues

state Children's health insurance program look it up
68.7 percent of newly uninsured children were in families whose incomes were 200 percent of the federal poverty level or higher. 6.6 million children covered. If a parent cares enough to fill out the paperwork.

Obama just re-uped it in 2009 to add 4 million more and prego women.

[xero]

very touching appeal to emotions rather then facts
if we can save just one child...I need my box of tissues

state Children's health insurance program look it up
68.7 percent of newly uninsured children were in families whose incomes were 200 percent of the federal poverty level or higher. 6.6 million children covered. If a parent cares enough to fill out the paperwork.

Obama just re-uped it in 2009 to add 4 million more and prego women.

Makes no difference whether it is a child or an adult. To many, a human life, no matter what their financial situation or their race/social disposition, is valuable.

My key point remains, which you have not commented on, the humanistic view is that in advanced society, those that have more (for whatever reason) should care for the weaker (for whatever reason) members of that society.

Quoting Warren Buffet: "If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

[Hazard]

Makes no difference whether it is a child or an adult. To many, a human life, no matter what their financial situation or their race/social disposition, is valuable.

My key point remains, which you have not commented on, the humanistic view is that in advanced society, those that have more (for whatever reason) should care for the weaker (for whatever reason) members of that society.

Quoting Warren Buffet: "If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

You are guaranteed these things..... but notice the word "Pursuit" - It doesn't guarantee happiness..... just that you can "pursue" it. What if I grew up in an extremilly poor familly..... and I work my ass off to get ahead in life. Now i'm a millionare and you expect me to take care of those who don't work as hard as me? Why should I support men and women who choose to not work and to sell drugs instead?

Yeah there are those exceptions where people have had bad luck and end up on their ass..... but if i went broke ass poor and didn't have health insurance (which i currently don't btw) I wouldn't expect ANYONE to support me.....

~Haz~

[JDawg1536]

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

You are guaranteed these things..... but notice the word "Pursuit" - It doesn't guarantee happiness..... just that you can "pursue" it. What if I grew up in an extremilly poor familly..... and I work my ass off to get ahead in life. Now i'm a millionare and you expect me to take care of those who don't work as hard as me? Why should I support men and women who choose to not work and to sell drugs instead?

Yeah there are those exceptions where people have had bad luck and end up on their ass..... but if i went broke ass poor and didn't have health insurance (which i currently don't btw) I wouldn't expect ANYONE to support me.....

~Haz~

So you think hard work equates to being a millionaire?

What about trust-fund babies? I've known plenty of them who don't work for $hit. Can we take their health benefits away?

[Hazard]

So you think hard work equates to being a millionaire?

What about trust-fund babies? I've known plenty of them who don't work for $hit. Can we take their health benefits away?

No thats what I was saying..... there are exceptions for everything. But where does it say that because i'm wealthy - i need to take care of those less fortunate?

-You have people who work hard and come from nothing to make millions.....

-you have those born into millions.....

-you have lottery winners.....

-You have those born into poverty.....

-you have those who choose to not work or try to get out of poverty.....

-you have those that have money but lose it all.....

There are a thousand circumstances..... why should one person be responsible for taking care of another when every person is guaranteed the same rights?

~Haz~

[xero]

"Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"

You are guaranteed these things..... but notice the word "Pursuit" - It doesn't guarantee happiness..... just that you can "pursue" it. What if I grew up in an extremilly poor familly..... and I work my ass off to get ahead in life. Now i'm a millionare and you expect me to take care of those who don't work as hard as me? Why should I support men and women who choose to not work and to sell drugs instead?

Yeah there are those exceptions where people have had bad luck and end up on their ass..... but if i went broke ass poor and didn't have health insurance (which i currently don't btw) I wouldn't expect ANYONE to support me.....

~Haz~

I understand where you are coming from on this and i cant argue your point "you expect me to take care of those who dont work as hard as me". Touches on ones fundamental primitive instincts to prevent freeloaders abusing you.

The problem is that there is a portion of any society who cannot lift themselves to the economic levels where basic health care is an option. The reasons could be anything from low IQ, type B personality, mental or physical disabilities, orphaned, old age, plain old poor life decisions....the reasons are many.

Should we disregard them because of the freeloaders?

[J-Dogg]

I understand where you are coming from on this and i cant argue your point "you expect me to take care of those who dont work as hard as me". Touches on ones fundamental primitive instincts to prevent freeloaders abusing you.

The problem is that there is a portion of any society who cannot lift themselves to the economic levels where basic health care is an option. The reasons could be anything from low IQ, type B personality, mental or physical disabilities, orphaned, old age, plain old poor life decisions....the reasons are many.

Should we disregard them because of the freeloaders?

I don't want to tute my own horn, but I'm one of the hardest working people I know. I honestly work at least 10 hours minim per day.

But I'm self employed, and I don't even have coverage for myself. I can't justify the $170 bi-weekly payment. While I make good money, I'm 28 years old and healthy and also, still a growing company.

I have equity in real estate, and insurance that covers me while at work. If something happens outside of that, I've decided to extract equity rather than pay $350 a month.

For me, it's risk vs. reward and so far the risk has saved me about 30k.

[JDawg1536]

I don't want to tute my own horn, but I'm one of the hardest working people I know. I honestly work at least 10 hours minim per day.

But I'm self employed, and I don't even have coverage for myself. I can't justify the $170 bi-weekly payment. While I make good money, I'm 28 years old and healthy and also, still a growing company.

I have equity in real estate, and insurance that covers me while at work. If something happens outside of that, I've decided to extract equity rather than pay $350 a month.

For me, it's risk vs. reward and so far the risk has saved me about 30k.

You may be healthy, but you can't control whether or not you get testicular cancer. Not only will you have to pay huge (much larger than $30k) medical bills, but you couldn't get coverage for the rest of your life.

My little sister's friend smoked some marijuana about a month ago and he was tripping out so his parents called an ambulance. He was fine but they kept him overnight at the hospital just as a precaution. He got a bill in the mail for just over $23,000 a couple weeks later. $hit is expensive.

[J-Dogg]

You may be healthy, but you can't control whether or not you get testicular cancer. Not only will you have to pay huge (much larger than $30k) medical bills, but you couldn't get coverage for the rest of your life.

My little sister's friend smoked some marijuana about a month ago and he was tripping out so his parents called an ambulance. He was fine but they kept him overnight at the hospital just as a precaution. He got a bill in the mail for just over $23,000 a couple weeks later. $hit is expensive.

In Michigan if you make a monthly payment, any amount, they cannot put a bad mark on your credit.

I'd pay 10 bucks a month, for the rest of my life.

[Hazard]

I understand where you are coming from on this and i cant argue your point "you expect me to take care of those who dont work as hard as me". Touches on ones fundamental primitive instincts to prevent freeloaders abusing you.

The problem is that there is a portion of any society who cannot lift themselves to the economic levels where basic health care is an option. The reasons could be anything from low IQ, type B personality, mental or physical disabilities, orphaned, old age, plain old poor life decisions....the reasons are many.

Should we disregard them because of the freeloaders?

I agree with what you are saying here and this is why I'm saying our current health system does need to be reformed.... some how. I just don't think the way we are going about it now is the right way.

Unfortunately, you can't weed out the ones who have tried and couldn't doit and the ones who just don't care to try.....

Listen..... i'm not a wealthy upper class american. I'm a hard working middle class guy who has a wife with a house and no health insurance. My wife was laid off..... and I started a new job last august. I'm working my ass off and so far it's really looking up for me for the 1st time. Just as easily as my future could be great..... it could just as easily crumble on me. If that happens..... so be it..... i'm still not going to look for a handout.

If they want to start reforming and making this county better while finding some money in the process - they can start with friggin welfare..... and these people who constantly pump out kids.....

~Haz~

[Kratos]

I understand where you are coming from on this and i cant argue your point "you expect me to take care of those who dont work as hard as me". Touches on ones fundamental primitive instincts to prevent freeloaders abusing you.

The problem is that there is a portion of any society who cannot lift themselves to the economic levels where basic health care is an option. The reasons could be anything from low IQ, type B personality, mental or physical disabilities, orphaned, old age, plain old poor life decisions....the reasons are many.

Should we disregard them because of the freeloaders?

are those people not given insurance now under medicaid?

[Kratos]

Makes no difference whether it is a child or an adult. To many, a human life, no matter what their financial situation or their race/social disposition, is valuable.

My key point remains, which you have not commented on, the humanistic view is that in advanced society, those that have more (for whatever reason) should care for the weaker (for whatever reason) members of that society.

Quoting Warren Buffet: "If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent."

Again the appeal to emotion..although I can't for the life of me figure out why you decided to play to race card.

Sure, those who have more can help...but not to the point they no longer have more. We're on track to bankrupt the country.
What level of suffering do you expect when nobody gets their entitlement check anymore?

Warren Buffet is an ass...he has money yes, but other than that his brain is garbage. The top 99 percent should think about the rest...does that even hold to logic? Does the top 1 percent have to think about the rest of the top 10 percent? At what point is there a cut off of who you think about?
He may be planning on giving away a lot of money in death and he may have given away a lot recently. But he has never once given away an amount of money that put his lifestyle or wealth at risk.

We can help, but there must be a limit.